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Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

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McNutt
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:45 pm

She wasn't his adopted daughter. She was Mia's adopted daughter from another relationship and Soon-Yi and Allen never lived in the same house. By all accounts they didn't have a lot of contact until she was an adult. I still think that's terrible though, but it doesn't make him a child molester.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by hepcat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:50 pm

McNutt wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:45 pm
I still think that's terrible though
Then we're not really disagreeing.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:55 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:36 pm
Considering that Allen married his adopted daughter, I'm not sure he gets much benefit of the doubt.
I know nothing about Allen's situation, but I do know that Americans aren't afraid to outlaw marriages they think are immoral.

Why is Allen's marriage legal?

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 pm

I'm disagreeing with all these self-righteous assholes who are saying that Allen should be blacklisted and that they're so sorry they ever worked for him. I have more respect for the people that worked for Roman Polanski and said that they think he deserves a second chance. Not that I agree with that sentiment, but I prefer people sticking to their guns and not kowtowing to public pressure. These "look at me" stars who have the same information they had when they decided to star in a Woody Allen movie are now so ashamed of themselves. Please. You wanted to work for the man because he's a good director and has a lot of talent. Now it's fashionable to hate him so you're going to jump on that bandwagon.

But back to your point, Hepcat. I think we disagree that Mia is a more sympathetic figure in this. I'm assuming that this rape thing was a lie fabricated by a scorned woman bent on vengeance. But running away with a woman's daughter and being told that the love child with the ex-husband is your child are equally bad and I don't think Woody was the worse of the two.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:03 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:55 pm
Why is Allen's marriage legal?
Allen was never married to Mia Farrow. They dated for 12 years and had their own apartments in New York City. Farrow had an adopted daughter with her ex husband (not Frank Sinatra, who was a previous husband). Allen and Soon-Yi Previn (the adopted daughter) did not have much of a relationship until they secretly started dating when she was an adult. Soon-Yi was never Allen's adopted daughter.

That's pretty creepy and it has prevented Woody Allen from receiving the benefit of the doubt by many in the rape allegation.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by hepcat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:07 pm

McNutt wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 pm
But back to your point, Hepcat. I think we disagree that Mia is a more sympathetic figure in this.
It's entirely possible to have two awful people in this story. However, only one of them fits the description of someone in a position of power (in this case, a parental role...even if it was neither legal or genetic) in a sexual relationship with someone young enough to be their granddaughter.
McNutt wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:03 pm
That's pretty creepy

Yes, yes it is.

edit: but we do share a contempt for Hollywood hypocrisy, it seems. :wink:
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:10 pm

I don't think Allen was ever in a parental role with Soon-Yi. For whatever reason, that's not how Allen and Farrow's relationship worked. The age difference is pretty huge, but that's not uncommon in Hollywood. I'm not trying to sanitize it. I'm just trying to keep it from continually being portrayed as something it's not.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by hepcat » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:17 pm

You mean
McNutt wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:45 pm
terrible
and
McNutt wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:03 pm
pretty creepy
?

:wink:
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:27 pm

Allen has on at least one one occasion described his relationship with Soon-yi as "paternal".

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Blackhawk » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:39 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:36 pm
Considering that Allen married his adopted daughter, I'm not sure he gets much benefit of the doubt.
When the consequence is a destroyed life and career, everybody gets the benefit of the doubt. Always. Better to let the guilty go unpunished than to punish the innocent.

I didn't say he gets a hand-wave, but I won't presume him guilty, either.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:21 am

If I understand the Allen situation correctly, he had a fling with partner's adult adopted daughter to which he had no blood or legal relationship to prior and then married her a decades later is that correct?

I've read the wiki page and it sounds like an affair between an older man and a younger woman. If she wasn't Farrow's adopted daughter this wouldn't even be noteworthy. They did not marry for almost 20 years after their initial "fling", but now have 2 adopted children.

It's extremely hard to tell what, if anything, inappropriate (in #metoo terms, clearly society doesn't approve of cheating on your partner) occurred. Considering they have been married for 20 years and have raised 2 children, I`m loathe to start mucking around in their personal lives now, 30+ years after the fact. I try not to judge where and how people find happiness.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Remus West » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:29 am

Allen has been accused of abuse by his bio daughter from a young age. The adopted daughter marriage just adds another layer of creepy to the whole thing.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:30 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:21 am
If I understand the Allen situation correctly, he had a fling with partner's adult adopted daughter to which he had no blood or legal relationship to prior and then married her decades later is that correct?
It wasn't decades later, but everything else is correct.
I've read the wiki page and it sounds like an affair between an older man and a younger woman. If she wasn't Farrow's adopted daughter this wouldn't even be noteworthy. They did not marry for almost 20 years after their initial "fling", but now have 2 adopted children.
It would be typical Hollywood and not very juicy, especially considering their longevity.
It's extremely hard to tell what, if anything, inappropriate (in #metoo terms, clearly society doesn't approve of cheating on your partner) occurred. Considering they have been married for 20 years now and have raised 2 children, I`m loathe to start mucking around in their personal lives now, 30+ years after the fact. I try not to judge where and now people find happiness.
I think a lot of people would have dismissed it as he said/she said during a bitter breakup had there not been the scandal about Soon-Yi. That's hard for many people to ignore, especially when they incorrectly assume he adopted or raised Soon-Yi.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:33 am

Wiki says they started in late 80's, got married in 1997. Let's call it a decade. So only 10 years, not 20+ like I suggested. Math is hard for me.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Remus West » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:35 am

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:39 am

i believe Dylan herself believes Allen molested her. I also think Mia Farrow was mad enough to drill it into her seven-year-old's head that she was molested. Kids can be made to believe something happened if they were told enough times that it happened.

Again, I'm not saying it didn't happen, but there's enough doubt for me to not presume guilt.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Remus West » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:40 am

McNutt wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:39 am
i believe Dylan herself believes Allen molested her. I also think Mia Farrow was mad enough to drill it into her seven-year-old's head that she was molested. Kids can be made to believe something happened if they were told enough times that it happened.

Again, I'm not saying it didn't happen, but there's enough doubt for me to not presume guilt.
I don't presume one way or the other regarding it but I do attribute the accusations as the source of the "Woody Allen = creepy" concept much more than his current marriage.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:44 am

Sure, any man is going to be considered creepy if he is accused of molesting his daughter. That's the way it works, sadly. Throw in his unconventional relationship with Soon-Yi and he will never escape the creepy tag. I'm not too sympathetic about the tag being applied because of the latter though.

You'd think with the way I keep jumping to his defense that I'm a fan of his work. Oddly enough I've only mildly liked a few of his movies. His comedies were not my cup of tea.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:52 am

Remus West wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:29 am
Allen has been accused of abuse by his bio daughter from a young age. The adopted daughter marriage just adds another layer of creepy to the whole thing.
Wow, is it incredibly hard to find out who Allen's biological children are.

If my sleuthing has been successful, Allen has no biological daughter. He has a biological son with Farrow. He has been accused of sexual assault with one of Farrow's adopted girls. While it's true that the daughter said that Allen "touched her private parts" the circumstances around the entire situation are strange, and in my opinion, questionable. A babysitter working for Farrow's friend says she witnessed Allen behaving "inappropriately" with Dylan (I think that was her name). According to the wiki, a lengthy investigation determined that Dylan had not been sexually assaulted. That seems pretty conclusive, but maybe Allen bribed them to keep quiet? That seems pretty conspiratorial.

So from what I'm reading, Allen had sex with his partner's adult adopted daughter, had an affair, married her 10 years later and have been married for 20+ years and have raised 2 children together. He has also been accused of sexual assault but an investigation found that no assault occurred.

Allen might be a seedy creepster, I have no idea, but the facts of the case seem to be strongly in his favour (from a #metoo perspective).

Just a reminder, Allen did not adopt Previn and by most accounts, was not involved in parenting ANY of Farrow's children from before she started her relationship with Allen, including Previn.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by McNutt » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure what Reemus was talking about with his biological daughter accusing him of molesting her. I don't think he has a biological daughter and I'm not aware of any other accusations.

I believe his only biological kid is Ronan and I seriously doubt he's actually the father.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:03 pm

McNutt wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:44 am
You'd think with the way I keep jumping to his defense that I'm a fan of his work. Oddly enough I've only mildly liked a few of his movies. His comedies were not my cup of tea.
I'm annoyed that I had to go investigate his freakin' life for myself so I could understand why so many different accounts existed. I have no opinion of Allen or his work, outside of the fact that it is generally thought to be critically successful.

I in no way want to have an opinion on his life, but the general vibe I'm finding is a man branded by accusations that have not been backed up by evidence, while also entering into a relationship with the adopted daughter of his partner, which most people would find distasteful (as do I, but love and biology are some scary powerful forces).

The idea that Allen is lumped in with the likes of Weinstein, or even Louis C.K., seems a real stretch.

I will say that during my reading I found a joke that he made about his first ex-wife's sexual assault that was horrifically inappropriate, but also, shame on me, hilarious. Since dark humour is often a psychological defense mechanism, I give him a pass.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:08 pm

McNutt wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:00 pm
I believe his only biological kid is Ronan and I seriously doubt he's actually the father.
I didn't investigate this angle much but I have heard it. Circumstantially, they had trouble conceiving, stopped trying, then tried again and succeeded. I could see how the rumours being true could possibly motivate Allen to bang Farrow's daughter. Certainly not a healthy reaction to being cuckolded, but Farrow having someone else's kid and telling you it's yours is a pretty hefty betrayal.

edit: Just a final note to say I'm done with talking about Allen. Most of my comments were from a fact finding expedition, and that's over.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Remus West » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:42 pm

My fault. Dylan is not a bio kid. She has accused him of assault though. As noted, that accusation is where the vast majority of the anti-Woody Allen discussion starts.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Scuzz » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:56 pm

Remus West wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:42 pm
My fault. Dylan is not a bio kid. She has accused him of assault though. As noted, that accusation is where the vast majority of the anti-Woody Allen discussion starts.
I thought most of the anti-Woody stuff started when he stopped making funny movies and started making old people movies.

Is it really societies job to be judge and jury over everyone?

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Holman » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:08 pm

Scuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:56 pm
Is it really societies job to be judge and jury over everyone?
Not really, but you can't pursue celebrity and then complain about attention.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by hepcat » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:22 pm

McNutt wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:44 am
You'd think with the way I keep jumping to his defense that I'm a fan of his work. Oddly enough I've only mildly liked a few of his movies. His comedies were not my cup of tea.
Bananas was spit take hilarious. So was What's Up Tiger Lilly, Love and Death, and Sleeper. The rest of his stuff is funny, although more thoughtful and often tinged with a sense of misplaced cynicism. I certainly agree he's a genius though. My disdain for the man himself comes primarily from the hypocrisy of Hollywood elites condemning everyone outside their circle for even lesser accusations, but protecting those within their own when confronted when actual facts or strong testimony.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Scuzz » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:35 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:08 pm
Scuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:56 pm
Is it really societies job to be judge and jury over everyone?
Not really, but you can't pursue celebrity and then complain about attention.
I don't doubt that. But celebrity somehow gives the general public the ability to judge your life without any real knowledge of what your life is really about. The posts here about Allen kinda prove how little is actually known about Allen's past. And yet there are people willing to condemn him to the waste bin.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:40 pm

Remus West wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:42 pm
My fault. Dylan is not a bio kid. She has accused him of assault though. As noted, that accusation is where the vast majority of the anti-Woody Allen discussion starts.
Yeah, it was only a point of fact, doesn't change the meaning.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:41 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:08 pm
Scuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:56 pm
Is it really societies job to be judge and jury over everyone?
Not really, but you can't pursue celebrity and then complain about attention.
I'd say that's one of society's jobs. That's part of what makes it a society.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:05 pm

Interesting article about Uma Thurman's experiences with Weinstein.

Uma interview

Her fights with Tarantino and accident while making Kill Bill were news to me and I found it interesting.

She describes Tarantino doing some of the demeaning scenes himself such as spitting in her face and choking her with a chain which seems incredibly cruel, petty and vindictive given their relationship at the time.

To be clear, the Tarantino part of the interview has nothing to do with sexual assault or harassment directly, although it does touch on the relationship triangle between Uma, Quentin​ and Harvey.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Moliere » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:44 pm

Scott Baio
The “Charles in Charge” alum appeared on NBC News’ “Megyn Kelly Today” on Tuesday to share her sexual assault allegations against her former costar, who she alleges began molesting her when she was 14.

Eggert, 46, said she previously lied about the nature of their relationship and became “really good at covering up” what happened to her.

Baio, 57, who was in his 20s when he played Eggert’s nanny on the 1980s sitcom, denied her story and accused Eggert of damaging his reputation. He called her allegations “100% lies” before issuing a full rebuttal on his Facebook page on Sunday.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Moliere » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:04 am

Down goes Wynn!
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Moliere » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:26 pm

Former Cato employees describe years of harassment
Three former employees of the famed Cato Institute say they were sexually harassed by Ed Crane, the 73-year-old co-founder and president emeritus of the think tank and one of the most recognizable figures in the libertarian movement.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:55 pm

Something something 'invisible hand'.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:10 pm

#MeToo movement lawmaker investigated for sexual misconduct allegations:
Politico.com wrote:SAN FRANCISCO — California Assemblywoman Cristina Garcia — whose high-profile advocacy of the #MeToo movement earned her national media notice — is herself the subject of a state legislative investigation in the wake of a report that she sexually harassed and groped a former legislative staffer.

In December, when Time magazine announced that “Silence Breakers” who spoke out against sexual harassment were its Persons of the Year, Garcia’s face was prominently included in the art accompanying the cover story.

But Daniel Fierro of Cerritos told POLITICO that in 2014, as a 25-year-old staffer to Assemblyman Ian Calderon, he was groped by Garcia, a powerful Democratic lawmaker who chairs the Legislative Women’s Caucus and the Natural Resources Committee.

He said she cornered him alone after the annual Assembly softball game in Sacramento as he attempted to clean up the dugout. Fierro, who said Garcia appeared inebriated, said she began stroking his back, then squeezed his buttocks and attempted to touch his crotch before he extricated himself and quickly left.

Fierro said he never reported the incident, which occurred years before the current #MeToo movement and new whistleblower legislation to protect legislative staffers. But after he mentioned the issue last January to Calderon, his former boss, the matter was then referred to the Assembly Rules Committee, which launched an investigation.

Fierro is not the only one claiming improper advances by Garcia. A prominent Sacramento lobbyist says she also accosted him in May 2017, when she cornered him, made a graphic sexual proposal, and tried to grab his crotch at a political fundraiser. He spoke to POLITICO on the condition of anonymity out of fear of reprisals.

The lobbyist, who represents a major industry association, said that Garcia appeared to have been drinking heavily at a fundraiser hosted by Governor Jerry Brown for state Senator Josh Newman at the de Veres bar in Sacramento. He said he was heading out the door in part to avoid the assemblywoman — who had been increasingly “flirtatious” and had called him on a few occasions before for late night drinks which he repeatedly declined.

She spotted him and said,“Where are you going?” the lobbyist said.

“She came back and was whispering real close and I could smell the booze and see she was pretty far gone,’’ he said. “She looked at me for a second and said, “I’ve set a goal for myself to fuck you.”

At that point, Garcia “stepped in front of me and reaches out and is grabbing for my crotch,’’ he said. That was “the line in the sand,” according to the lobbyist, and he stopped her. “I was four inches from her, eyeball to eyeball -- and I said, ‘That ain’t gonna happen.’”

The accusations against Garcia come at the close of months of high-profile activism on the issue of sexual harassment by the assemblywoman, who became one of Sacramento’s leading voices on #MeToo issue.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Scuzz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:18 pm

I read about her yesterday. It sounds like she has a serious alcohol problem.

And I would bet she doesn't consider what she does harassment.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by TheMix » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:35 pm

Scuzz wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:18 pm
I read about her yesterday. It sounds like she has a serious alcohol problem.

And I would bet she doesn't consider what she does harassment.
May depend on whether she even remembers.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:02 pm

Lobbyists aren't people.

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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Paingod » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:11 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:02 pm
Lobbyists aren't people.
I thought they were the "adult" form of larval Politicians and Lawyers.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein... RIP career.

Post by Scuzz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:59 pm

Paingod wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:11 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:02 pm
Lobbyists aren't people.
I thought they were the "adult" form of larval Politicians and Lawyers.
At the state level with term limits a thing becoming a lobbyist is the natural progression for most politicians.

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