2018 Olympics - South Korea

[El Guapo]

It's a bit early for this thread, BUT some huge news.

The IOC has barred Russia from the 2018 games entirely. For a "state-sponsored systematic doping program". Government officials will be barred from attending. Russian athletes can apparently apply for a special dispensation to compete, but any accepted would compete wearing a 'neutral uniform', and Russia will be marked as winning zero medals (even if it's 'neutral' athletes win medals).

[pr0ner]

Holy crap.

There was talk about this being Russia's best chance at a hockey gold medal due to the NHL's lack of participation. I wonder if they will still be able to field a "Russian" team, or if the KHL will just go nutso and block everyone in that league from playing, including non-Russians.

[naednek]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

[El Guapo]

Seems daunting to get a whole "Russian" hockey team approved. I'm guessing that they'd need to subject the team to special (non-Russian) doping scrutiny. There's been talk in Russia of a boycott ("you can't bar us, we quit!"), so I assume that the Russian government would lean on any athletes not to participate.

I also assume that any Russian with dual-citizenship or some other claim to participate with another Olympic team will probably go that route.

[Carpet_pissr]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

If I was an IOC member, I would be more worried about getting my hands on some kind of poison antidote post haste.

[GreenGoo]

Holy crap.

+1.

They certainly deserve a special kick in the nuts, and "state sponsored doping program" is almost certainly accurate. Still, they are such a big player that it's hard to imagine them being given the boot entirely.

[GreenGoo]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

[tjg_marantz]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

Indeed.

[naednek]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

What's the point of ramming planes into a building, or using pressure cooker bombs in a crowded location, or driving trucks through a congested area, or shooting up a school, movie theatre, office christmas party, night clubs, or concerts?

[GreenGoo]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

Indeed.

Indeed what?

[GreenGoo]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

What's the point of ramming planes into a building, or using pressure cooker bombs in a crowded location, or driving trucks through a congested area, or shooting up a school, movie theatre, office christmas party, night clubs, or concerts?

Are you serious? Do you honestly not know why 9/11 happened, or why people strap bombs to their chests and blow themselves up in the middle of a crowded marketplace?

Is it your position that Kim Jong 'Un is just another crazy with a bigger gun and a bigger school to target?

[McNutt]

I don't understand it either. Nuking South Korea is not in North Korea's best interest. They have nothing to gain by doing that.

[dbt1949]

Some how Russia's going to say it was the US's fault.

[naednek]

my point is many times there are not a rational reason why events like those happen.

If KimJ is as crazy as he's portrayed why wouldn't he target a world event such as the Olympics. It's not like he's respected world wide, nor is SK any friend to him. More bang for the buck. Yes it wouldn't be in his best interest as it would spark a crazy ass war, but so would any nuke missile being shot at some point.

So I'm not sure why my question\concerned is so outrageous to you. You haven't explained why it would be. If you feel like going into more detail, you can try it do less snarky. It would go a long ways...

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Kim is certainly dangerous, but he's not a madman in the evil-wants-the-world-to-burn sort of way as far as we can tell. Everything he's done is actually semi-rational if his main goal is to keep power. Nuking SK would be the quickest way for him to lose that power as the whole world would be suddenly united in it's goal to remove him.

[Biyobi]

Dear Leader may rant and rave against our Dear Leader, but nuking the whole world's athletes has literally no upside for him at all (except maybe from Putin after the ban).

[GreenGoo]

my point is many times there are not a rational reason why events like those happen.

If KimJ is as crazy as he's portrayed why wouldn't he target a world event such as the Olympics. It's not like he's respected world wide, nor is SK any friend to him. More bang for the buck. Yes it wouldn't be in his best interest as it would spark a crazy ass war, but so would any nuke missile being shot at some point.

So I'm not sure why my question\concerned is so outrageous to you. You haven't explained why it would be. If you feel like going into more detail, you can try it do less snarky. It would go a long ways...

I started to write a history lesson on NK, but it was long and wordy and honestly you just need to learn about the things you fear, otherwise you're just a slave to your fears. That's not my job.

I'm curious where you have seen Kim (god I have no idea how to shorten a Korean name. Is it Kim? Is it 'Un? Is it Kim Jong? Is it Jong 'Un? I don't know anything about naming conventions there) portrayed as a lunatic? Because he's mostly certainly not. He's no more crazy than any other run of the mill dictator. In many ways he has handled Drumpf's belligerence more strategically and effectively than Drumpf has handled his. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not a fan of his. I just don't assume everyone I don't like is insane and decide that's all I need to know)

I'll ask some leading questions though. It will probably sound condescending, but, well, too bad. Your President is busy exchanging schoolyard insults with 'Un. You should probably find out why.

1) Why does NK have such heavy sanctions against them?
2) What does NK want?
3) Why is NK developing nukes?
4) Why are they developing ballistic missiles?
5) How does nuking the Olympics get them what they want? Or even nuking a random location in SK.
6) What actions has NK or 'Un taken that appear random? What patterns of behaviour have we seen from him that suggest nuking the Olympics would be a consideration of his?

You listed multiple terrorist events like they were all unknowable. But they are not. We know why the planes crashed into the WTC, we know why they targeted the Pentagon too, we know why the Boston bombers targeted the marathon, we know why many, if not all, mass shootings took place. Worse, you seem to think they are all related to each other somehow.

Like all attacks are a sickness of the mind which translates into randomness, and 'Un is sick so he'll behave randomly too.

That's simply not true.

Sorry this is long winded. I actually deleted what I thought was my long winded reply.

edit: You can literally cut and paste my questions into google. I think knowing the answers to these questions would be beneficial to anyone who doesn't know much about NK. I certainly didn't start out as an expert (nor am I one now, only less ignorant. Not an insult!).

[El Guapo]

I'm curious where you have seen Kim (god I have no idea how to shorten a Korean name. Is it Kim? Is it 'Un? Is it Kim Jong? Is it Jong 'Un? I don't know anything about naming conventions there)

It's Kim. In Korea (as I understand it) you put first names first. So he's part of the Kim family - his father being Kim Jong Il.

[GreenGoo]

It's Kim. In Korea (as I understand it) you put first last names first. So he's part of the Kim family - his father being Kim Jong Il.

Did you mean "last names first"?

[GreenGoo]

So I just read this in a Fox article (didn't check the date, has to be this year).

North Korean ruler Kim Jong Un randomly fires off missiles whenever he gets upset about the United States’ demands

That's the exact opposite of random.

[Jaymann]

So I just read this in a Fox article (didn't check the date, has to be this year).

North Korean ruler Kim Jong Un randomly fires off missiles whenever he gets upset about the United States’ demands

That's the exact opposite of random.

Not if the destination of the missile is random.

[GreenGoo]

Not if the destination of the missile is random.

Then the target is random, not the firing off of the missile. Is that what you believe Fox is saying? Kim is randomly picking targets to hit with his missiles?

Considering they are still testing, and that he has yet to pick a target that he wants to blow up with his missile, the target is still not going to be randomly determined.

Do they spin a dial on the targeting computer? Darts on a map of the pennisula? Pick targets out of a hat? Even if your point was valid (I don't feel it is) it's still unlikely to be randomly chosen.

[tjg_marantz]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

Indeed.

Indeed what?

Indeed, no need to be worried about acts of terrorism at the Olympics. That's never happened before. So yeah, a bit worried is probably relevant.

The point would be to create chaos, bring attention etc... Not hard to comprehend that this would be a possibility, even if remote. Something to be a "bit" worried about.

[GreenGoo]

You make it sound like NK is the taliban and Kim is Osama. That's simply not so, that sort of view of NK is not apt, and Kim in no way resembles a religious (or even secular) inspired terrorist leader.

Kim's first goal is to stay in power. Second is to develop deterrent weapons so the US and SK don't come in a start kicking their asses (see first goal). Third, post-nuclear weapons development, is to lift sanctions imposed because of their second goal. Some might say a 4th goal would be to re-unite NK and SK under his leadership (which is just a pipe dream, obviously).

The ONLY one of those goals that might be remotely impacted by blowing up everyone's athletes is the third. Now, do you think this would have a positive or negative effect on sanctions?

Do people really think Kim is this mad super villain out to nuke the world? This is all well documented stuff. We even have 3rd parties telling us that Kim has said that he does not want a war, for whatever that's worth.

I'm not even that knowledgeable about NK and Kim, but this is all common knowledge I thought. There is no evidence that Kim is going to pick a target at random, or one that does not support his goals. Kim has not shown himself to be insane, just power hungry.

edit: Any further comment on this topic should probably be done in R&P. If people want to talk about the Olympics, we shouldn't get in the way.

[tjg_marantz]

From a little bit worried to that? Oofta.

[GreenGoo]

From a little bit worried to that? Oofta.

To...what?

You seem to think that your posts are inherently clear, and while they very well might be for some of the people on the board, they are not to me, so I'd appreciate a little more effort on your part. If you're working and/or posting from your phone, I understand, but I still don't follow your short posts.

You should be about as worried that Kim is going to nuke the Olympics as you are that a Muslim terrorist is going to blow up your daily commute. Whether you think that's worth worrying about, even "a bit", is up to you I guess.

I've tried to explain why the fear is unwarranted, if it's not convincing, well, enjoy your fear I suppose.

[GreenGoo]

Here's the wiki page on Terrorist acts by NK. I have no idea how comprehensive it is.

NK terrorism

About 1/2 are assassinations of specific targets, 2, maybe 3 are what I consider "true" acts of terrorism, where the goal is simply to cause fear and chaos (as per tjg's suggestion), all of which happened more than four 3 decades ago, and several regimes ago.

My point is that NK does not have a history of randomly blowing people up, and the 2 (or 3, I'm not re-reading them) times they did so, it was decades ago and the people who were responsible for it are dead.

Of particular note is that the article only lists seven! (the assassination of his brother is listed twice) acts of terrorism over the entire existence of NK.

Of course people are free to fear whatever they want. I just think in this case it is unwarranted.

[Isgrimnur]

CTV

The rival Koreas moved toward reducing their bitter animosity Tuesday during rare talks, with North Korea agreeing to take part in next month's Winter Olympics in South Korea. The countries also agreed to hold more discussions on easing tension along their border and to reopen a military hotline.

The first meeting of its kind between the nations in about two years was arranged after North Korean leader Kim Jong Un made an abrupt push for improved ties with South Korea following a year of escalating tensions with the outside world over his expanding nuclear and missile programs. Critics say Kim may be trying to divide Seoul and Washington in a bid to weaken international pressure and sanctions on the North.
...
Ri read what he called a joint statement after the talks, under which the two Koreas agreed to "actively co-operate" in the Olympics to "enhance the prestige of the Korean people."

He said North Korea will send a delegation of officials, athletes, cheerleaders and journalists to the Feb. 9-25 games in Pyeongchang, South Korea.
...
North Korea is not a winter sports power, and two of its figure skaters, Ryom Tae Ok and Kim Ju Sik, earlier became the only North Korean athletes to qualify for the games before the North missed a confirmation deadline. The International Olympic Committee said Monday it has "kept the door open" for North Korea to take part in the games.

[A nonny mouse]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

Indeed.

Indeed what?

Indeed, no need to be worried about acts of terrorism at the Olympics. That's never happened before. So yeah, a bit worried is probably relevant.

The point would be to create chaos, bring attention etc... Not hard to comprehend that this would be a possibility, even if remote. Something to be a "bit" worried about.

Was "never happened before" supposed to be with rolly eyes?

If not, what about Munich in 1972 or Atlanta in 1996?

[naednek]

anyone else a bit worried about having the Olmypics in SK with all whats going on to the North? One can easily think all this missle testing is in prep for this...

Not really (about being worried). What would be the point of dropping a missile on the Olympics?

Indeed.

Indeed what?

Indeed, no need to be worried about acts of terrorism at the Olympics. That's never happened before. So yeah, a bit worried is probably relevant.

The point would be to create chaos, bring attention etc... Not hard to comprehend that this would be a possibility, even if remote. Something to be a "bit" worried about.

Was "never happened before" supposed to be with rolly eyes?

If not, what about Munich in 1972 or Atlanta in 1996?

Thank you.

[McNutt]

Was "never happened before" supposed to be with rolly eyes?

If not, what about Munich in 1972 or Atlanta in 1996?

It was. He even referenced the Munich Massacre.

[Isgrimnur]

I love it when an argument starts up a month later without missing a beat.

[tjg_marantz]

Was "never happened before" supposed to be with rolly eyes?

If not, what about Munich in 1972 or Atlanta in 1996?

It was. He even referenced the Munich Massacre.

I don't know how else I could have made it clearer. LoL

[naednek]

The board theme I use makes it really hard to differentiate text from links. I didn't see the link until just now.

[Jeff V]

So a friend on FB mentioned this actually started yesterday...tuned in and caught some Agony of Defeat moments that are why we watch. I guess tonight is the opening ceremony, little chance of a face plant or triple clutz I suppose. Might put it on when the kids are put down.

[Isgrimnur]

Release the killer drones!

[Rumpy]

The opening ceremonies were pretty great. They sure know how to play with fire!

[Moliere]

Given the lack of posts in this thread since the games started it seems I'm not the only one who doesn't care about watching these nationalist propaganda events.

NBC's Olympics Audience Drops 6%, and Network Declares Victory

NBC is attracting about 24 million viewers a night to its Winter Olympics coverage from South Korea, enough to ensure the network doesn’t have to give its sponsors additional airtime for free.

The flagship NBC network is drawing 22 million viewers a night and an additional 2 million are tuning in to cable and online programming, executives of Comcast Corp.’s entertainment division said Tuesday in a press conference.

While that’s down about 6 percent from the winter games four years ago in Sochi, Russia, it means the network is meeting its guarantee to advertisers and won’t have to give away costly make-goods, a problem that hurt the telecast of the Summer Olympics two years ago in Rio de Janeiro. Airtime set aside for possible make goods can now be sold.

[tjg_marantz]

I'm watching every event on CBC.ca. lurve me some Olympiads

[TheMix]

I tried watching a bit on live channels and quickly got dis-interested and frustrated.

Today I switched to watching the complete streaming offerings. Much nicer than just seeing highlights. I love the skating short track.