Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:19 pm

Thought I'd start one of these since I can't see the movie for a couple of days and I know people will want to discuss!

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:12 pm

My resident office Star Wars purist just reported in: he hated it. His words: "Thanks for turning this into a bad Star Trek movie Disney".

It's worth noting that he hated Force Awakens. He also regards Rogue One as one of the best Star Wars movies in existence, which I agree with.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:25 pm

That doesn't sound good. I agree with your fried that there was a significant difference in quality with Rogue One and The Force Awakens with Rogue One being much better.

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:39 pm

Well I'll be the dissenting voice. I enjoyed Force Awakens & Last Jedi more than Rogue One. RO felt like a b-level film, attempting a spin-off without risking too many resources. I enjoyed it, but it felt more forced in some ways. While I'm still unsure about the overall story arc for the latest trilogy, I've thoroughly enjoyed the known characterizations, been surprised to care about most of the new characters and really liked some of the aesthetic variations of SW known quantities.

I'm really not sure where they go story-wise for the third movie. I think they may have shot themselves in the foot with the available characters and where they ended things w/ rebellion vs. First Order. Easiest thing to help move/fix things is a time jump forward X number of years? (Especially w/ Carrie unavailable).

Anyway - I enjoyed it for what it was. Sorry others didn't like it.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:09 am

Just got back from the theater. I really enjoyed it. But I loved force awakens. Might be my favorite star wars ever. Of not it's just right behind empire. I also love rogue one.

Also after seeing last Jedi I have no idea how it is even remotely star trek. I love star trek. This is nothing like it.

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:18 am

By the way - I'm still sticking to the theory that...

Spoiler:

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:38 am

Just got back. It was fantastic! Ranked right up there with the originals for me.

I too wonder about the next movie though.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:46 am

I walked out absolutely loving it. For the first half of the movie, I wasn't sure what I thought. It so completely defied my expectations, and did so repeatedly, that for much of the movie I was just slack-jawed taking it in. I'm so glad I went into this without seeing any trailers.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:08 am

Honestly the more I think about it the more I'm slightly not sure what to make of where the story is. I know I really enjoyed it. It's just a lot to take in. And the situation is very different than I expected. I really thought the resistance was stronger. But it seems to be basically non-existent.

The thing is this movie didn't have too many fist pumping rebel victories. But excellent character development. I especially loved kylos and Rey's development. I am going to miss his helmet actually.

I'm going again tomorrow night. Hopefully I can process it more. Pumped to see it again.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:08 pm

I enjoyed it very much. As I mentioned in the other thread I liked that this movie was notably less a copy of an existing movie like how Ep7 mimicked Ep4. It was certainly Ep5-influenced in the sense that it's the "dark" second act and like Ep5 revolved around the notion that the rebels are on the run but only in a general sense. That the movie opens up with the rebels evacuating, and the final battle visually looked a lot like the battle on Hoth were the most explicit examples of "copying" to me. In a lot of ways I felt the movie combined themes from Ep5 and Ep6, so much so I'm looking forward to see what Ep9 will do differently.

Even though I liked it, right now I'm afraid some of my strongest feelings are negative ones:

1. Ep5 was generally about the rebels on the run. This movie was literally about the rebels on the run. Establishing tension by showcasing the few remaining rebel ships running away from the first order at sub-light speeds was kind of blah to me. Not to mention that, except for *shudder* the "leaking" hyperdrive from Ep1, things like fuel and other mundane things never seem to come up in Star Wars. Having the rebels simply run out of gas wasn't a very exciting plot device.

2. This is very nerdy nitpicky, but I still don't get the overall state of the galaxy. The "new" Republic was made up of 5? planets that were all wiped out along with their fleet? Now all that's left is one rebel cruiser and some support ships? Yet the First Order hollowed out a planet to make a new super Death Star, has a fleet of star destroyers, even larger dreadnaughts AND Snoke's super duper star destroyer?

3. Snoke had a lot going for him in my opinion. There's the overall question of who he is, how he became so powerful, possibly a connection to the original trilogy to be explored? In this movie we got to see the real guy, not just a hologram and he was menacing, good voice acting. I loved the look of him in his throne room with his guards. Then he's killed relatively easily. Except for pushing Rey around and a little force lightning on Kylo we never get to see him do his thing.

4. The whole trip to the Planet of 1%ers was odd to me, and Benecio Del Toro's character just sort of showed up, seemed like an interesting rogue like character, then he gives the pendant back and you think maybe he's got a Lando thing going on and then he turns out to just be another bad guy.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:02 pm

Fun tidbit about Phasma’s chrome armor from the Phasma book.

Book spoilers for neat tidbit you find out about her armor in the book:

Spoiler:

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:43 pm

Ah, now that we're in spoiler country, I can unleash the power of my dark side!

And by that I mean, complain about the things I *didn't* like about the film.

1. Snoke's short shrift. I was as shocked as anyone to see Snoke get taken out, but more from a "WTH were they thinking?" perspective. Why go through all the trouble to set him up as the big bad in TFA only to kill him off here? Puzzling.

2. After Captain Phasma gets criminally under-used in TFA, they couldn't find a way to utilize her more in an even longer film? Hoping she's not actually dead.

3. The entire Finn/Rose adventure turns out to be all for naught. While I appreciated Rian Johnson playing with our heads by making a run-of-the-mill Star Wars McGuffin go nowhere, the fact remains that we squandered a LOT of film real estate to get them from Ship A to Ship B. I certainly hope DJ the code breaker has a bigger role in Episode IX to justify that meandering goose chase.

Of course, it's entirely possible that ALL of those items were mean to leave us scratching our heads, and all will be revealed in Episode 9. So I'm not calling them deal breakers until we see the conclusion of the trilogy.

Dogstar · Post by **Dogstar** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:30 pm

I really liked it. It's not perfect by any means, and it's a little long, but I'd place it just behind Empire and A New Hope.

I understand it helps clean up the narrative getting rid of the old cast, but I wish they had kept Luke around for one more film. I thought Hamill did an excellent job with the role in this film.

Did anybody else love the jump to hyperspace slicing through the fleet with the theater in complete silence?

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:45 pm

I’m having a hard time processing this movie. Luke’s death is not sitting well with me. I spent the entire fight between Luke and Kylo on the edge of my seat, panicked that Luke was going to die. Then he pulls an awesome “see you around kid” move, and we find out he’s not really there. Awesome! I can’t wait to see more of Luke in the next mov... oh shit he’s dead.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:55 pm

a half-hour of trailers!!?! come ON

also, Laura Dern is still a hottie. my 80s crush on her still remains

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:19 am

Just saw it.

I agree with msteelers that the whole Luke thing seemed weird. Why have this big reveal of him not actually being there just so he can die in the next scene? Seemed pointless.

I liked the Rey/Luke/Kylo scenes/story but the whole Finn/Rose part didn’t do much for me. The whole casino planet thing was a bit of a waste of time.

A few other points:

1) I know Star Wars in general are rife with these things, but there must have been at least four or five times a character was saved by an ex-machina appearance. Once or twice is fine, but every damn time?

2) I have no idea how either Rey and Finn/Rose got off Snoke’s ship after it was rammed. Seemed like Finn/Rose rode and AT-AT into space???

3) what was with Leia drifting and then flying through space? Are Jedi immune to a vacuum for some reason? At first I thought it was her Jedi ghost, which would have been interesting, but nope: it’s just regular Leia.

4). Some of the humor worked but a lot of it seemed out of place or anachronistic. Often was forced.

I’m sure I’ll have more once I have time to think.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:32 am

Saw... and I thought it was okay. Uneven is more accurate maybe.
I agree with much of what has been said already.

One question on Strategy though, if you can take out an entire fleet by driving one moderately sized ship into it, why is that not the main weapon for space battles? Would have been a lot easier and less loss of life than blowing up all the turrets on that Dreadnought Star Destroyer at the beginning.

Also, did we really need to find out where the Blue Milk comes from?

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:32 am

2) I have no idea how either Rey and Finn/Rose got off Snoke’s ship after it was rammed. Seemed like Finn/Rose rode and AT-AT into space???

Rose says “I found a shuttle over there!” before they get interrupted by fight sequences. BB-8 shows up in the AT-ST and gives them a taxi ride to the shuttle.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:56 am

Archinerd wrote:
One question on Strategy though, if you can take out an entire fleet by driving one moderately sized ship into it, why is that not the main weapon for space battles? Would have been a lot easier and less loss of life than blowing up all the turrets on that Dreadnought Star Destroyer at the beginning.

Well the rebel ship was a pretty big cruiser right? But even so, it didn’t seem like it had a huge effect. Yeah, it cut the star destroyer in half, but except for the people in the shuttle bay, no one else seemed all that adversely affected. Kylo and pasty-dude didn’t seem very panicked and everyone seemed to have gotten off the ship easily enough.

‍♀️

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:59 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:56 am
Archinerd wrote:
One question on Strategy though, if you can take out an entire fleet by driving one moderately sized ship into it, why is that not the main weapon for space battles? Would have been a lot easier and less loss of life than blowing up all the turrets on that Dreadnought Star Destroyer at the beginning.
Well the rebel ship was a pretty big cruiser right? But even so, it didn’t seem like it had a huge effect. Yeah, it cut the star destroyer in half, but except for the people in the shuttle bay, no one else seemed all that adversely affected. Kylo and pasty-dude didn’t seem very panicked and everyone seemed to have gotten off the ship easily enough. ‍♀️

It stopped them enough to allow the transports to get away.
But it doesn't really bother me and the moment in the movie works. I just put it in the box of "why aren't all ships piloted by drones?" place.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:00 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:3) what was with Leia drifting and then flying through space? Are Jedi immune to a vacuum for some reason? At first I thought it was her Jedi ghost, which would have been interesting, but nope: it’s just regular Leia.

You can actually survive in the vacuum of space for a bit (up to two minutes by some estimates), giving her plenty of time to Force-pull herself back to the ship.

Archinerd wrote:One question on Strategy though, if you can take out an entire fleet by driving one moderately sized ship into it, why is that not the main weapon for space battles? Would have been a lot easier and less loss of life than blowing up all the turrets on that Dreadnought Star Destroyer at the beginning.

The guy I went with asked that exact question this morning, and my reasoning was money. The Resistance has to scrounge up every ship they can find, and can't afford to "waste" them on kamikaze missions unless absolutely necessary. Sure, we saw one scenario where it paid dividends, but we don't know how many smaller skirmishes relied on that ship remaining intact.

Also could be Holdo was the first one to think of it.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:35 am

i'm sure everyone here loved how 'decimate' was used in the title crawl - incorrectly.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:40 am

Guilty.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:00 am

YellowKing wrote:
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:3) what was with Leia drifting and then flying through space? Are Jedi immune to a vacuum for some reason? At first I thought it was her Jedi ghost, which would have been interesting, but nope: it’s just regular Leia.
You can actually survive in the vacuum of space for a bit (up to two minutes by some estimates), giving her plenty of time to Force-pull herself back to the ship.

She had been in a vacuum long enough to crystallize over. And since when has Leia shown that much force abilities?

The more I think about it, the less I liked this movie. There were certainly some cool scenes (ramming the ship, the battle on the salt planet, etc.), but so much seems underdeveloped (Snoke) or pointless (the whole casino planet).

Tentatively, I’m placing this movie has better than the prequels (by a lot), but worse than any other SW movie, including Rogue One.

Also, Laura Dern was terrible.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:53 pm

Laura Dern felt like she wandered in from a different movie, but knew she didn't belong so put on Bea Arthur's costume as a disguise.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:45 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:00 am The more I think about it, the less I liked this movie. There were certainly some cool scenes (ramming the ship, the battle on the salt planet, etc.), but so much seems underdeveloped (Snoke) or pointless (the whole casino planet).

Really? It seemed obvious to me that is where the spark of the rebellion would be rekindled. They sure made that kid important for some reason.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:27 pm

Ok, I’ll grant that. They had an indirect effect on the kids and maybe that will be important 15 years down the road. But the direct actions of Finn and Rose accomplished nothing. The rebels would have wound up exactly in the same place at the end of the movie if the Finn/Rose storyline were completely cut.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:44 pm

I like it. But i felt the humor was forced (pardon the pun). Did Carrie Fischer complete her role before dying? I thought her role wasn't completed and that they had to address it. Because of that, I thought her dying in space would have been the best way to deal with it. Instead she's flying like Mary Poppins.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:54 pm

naednek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:44 pm Instead she's flying like Mary Poppins.

When I saw that scene, my first thought was they should have put a thought bubble with "Im Mary Poppins, Y'all!" next to her.

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:46 pm

I agree with a lot of what everyone's been saying.

Very uneven and missed opportunity with killing big bad Smoke so early (but then - they always kill cool bad guys before they really use them: Tarkin, Darth Maul, Boba Fett.. probably others). The casino jaunt was pretty worthless, though I personally don't think any of the specific kids are important. Just a way to send the audience the message that the rebellion will rebound.

IIRC - Fisher finished her filming. I thought the space "death" thing was weird too, along with a couple of her other scenes. But I'm guessing it's all part of the film/script, not a consequence of her passing.

Seeing it again tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

Nightwish · Post by **Nightwish** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:29 am

After being driven away from the franchise over the years for lack of anything of interest, and somehow ending up seeing it this early, I'm kind of impressed with it. It avoids the dredge of this century by not caring that much about being Star Wars, and then lampshadding it with Luke asking "What did you expect, that I'd destroy the First Order by myself?" It's not about lightsabers, it's not about a simplistic light vs dark, it's not about space battles and so on - sure, it has all of it, but they're the background.
It was way too heavy-handed on there always being hope against tyranny, I don't think that's a feeling that people have when they're being slaughtered, even though all things do end.
Disney clearly wants more money to tell the story of the missing 30 years, but I don't think it matters for the tale of our main characters, just as it didn't matter how the Empire came to be for the original movies.
As to the humor, a lot of it came off as fairly natural off the cuff remarks and reactions instead of feeling like the usual movie style light moments, I was okay with that, for the most part - as to the furry creatures, they were too cute for me to care about the silliness, sorry.

Stupid directing things:
- WWII style bombers, where the Y and B-wings decommissioned? meh, okay... except it was flying parallel before dropping, then it was on a collision course for no reason. Also, having useful turrets against fighters seems like a useful thing on a ship.
- Movement in space made no sense. Poe uses newtonian physics early on, but the corvettes jerk upwards when out of fuel for no reason. And why the hell do you need fuel to keep moving?
- FO cannons can barely hit the rebels... except when the smaller, faster ships evacuate and should be farther, they're trivial to hit. sure.
- Everyone almost seems surprised at the admiral hyperspacing through the fleet - it can't possibly be first time ever someone did that. That or being surprised at the kamikaze attack, but what other option did she have?
- The ships sure were moving slowly for Leia to be able to come back.
- If you're grooming Poe for command, like Leia outright said, tell him the fucking plan so he can learn.
- Too much BB-8 saving the day with some way too silly situations.
- A metal armor is fine against an electrical weapon.
- Sorry Gwendoline, you'll have to live with the fat check, because no one cares about your character. At best.

The elephant in the room is the Finn/Rose plot, with silly BB-8 on top, I don't think that'll survive a rewatch. The idea itself is ok for a plot distraction, but all that it adds in the end is that the Rebellion also feeds warmongers, and they in turn explain a bit how the FO is a big thing.

I don't know what to think about Rey's parentage, what's her age and Ben's?

EDIT: Loved how much screen time Carrie got. I don't know much about her, but it felt right. Also liked that Luke looked just as lost as in A New Hope when he found out Rey was force sensitive (at least).

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:03 am

Largely agree with this, although I still need to see it again to determine whether my niggling problems with the film go away or hit harder...

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:47 am

Just got back.

Really enjoyed it.

Some quick hits:

-Everyone knows CF is gone so I was kind of expecting her to not make it through the movie. It was a bit of a gut punch when she got sucked out of the bridge, but I was willing to be okay with it. Her coming back and using The Force to get back was pretty emotional. I don't care if it seems unlikely.

-Emotional moment #2 for me was when they went to the classic fight music from ANH when the Falcon was being chased by the TIEs--loved it.

-I'm not happy with how Luke passed. I've said here multiple times that I'd be okay with him dying, I just wanted to see him go all Jedi Master with a light saber first. I'm not so much upset with the fact that he didn't really fight...I just..don't know..need to process more.

-I can't be the only one that saw the kid at the end force grab the broom before he started sweeping?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:31 am

msteelers wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:45 pm I’m having a hard time processing this movie. Luke’s death is not sitting well with me. I spent the entire fight between Luke and Kylo on the edge of my seat, panicked that Luke was going to die. Then he pulls an awesome “see you around kid” move, and we find out he’s not really there. Awesome! I can’t wait to see more of Luke in the next mov... oh shit he’s dead.

this so much this. It was running on a 7.5/8 tentacles for me when this hit, dropped it down like 6 maybe. I liked it overall. A LOT better than force awakens which i ddin't care much for since it was a rip off of a new hope..it was simply ok.

Back to this one....I liked a lot of what this film did, the rey & kylo connection was really well done and nicely developed. That was probably the best part about it. It did feel like its own film, which was refreshing. The new characters you could really feel them getting into their own roles. Loved Del Toro in his role, thought he brought a superb rogue to the film. Would love to see more of that character.

-Totally saw the kid force grab the broom at the end.

-felt like it was too long. MOments where i thought the credits would roll...then...whoops nope...10 more minutes of film.

-Still come back to the luke going poof...really bothers me. We never really saw him kick ass with the lightsaber which I would have loved. I kind of get...getting rid of the old guard so the new characters can shine...BUT....doing away with Luke...C'mon!!!!!

-loved seeing fischer, wonder how they write her off...

-am betting that rey is a solo/leia offspring.

-dont really see the connection to empire honestly; ok I get "rebels on the run" but it seems too vague. Whereas force awakens just had way too many parallels. For the record too...didn't care for rogue one, because eveyrone died.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:41 am

I thought there were more parallels to RotJ than Empire. The Snoke/Rey/Ren scene was basically the Emperor/Luke/Vader scene with a slightly different outcome.

Dogstar · Post by **Dogstar** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:48 am

I've been a bit puzzled why quite a few of my friends are ticked that Rey isn't connected to anybody in the films. They seem to have forgotten that Anakin was born to no one significant either; it's not like the Skywalker lineage goes back thousands of years.

I do wish the First Order had some competent operatives with even a minor background story. Hux is a joke, and Phasma doesn't seem to matter other than to look shiny. It's a far cry from Thrawn and Mara Jade.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:04 pm

I personally think the whole your parents are nothing, is a trick play. Ben Solo is trying to get her to join him and is toying with her emotions.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:06 pm

Random thoughts

I really liked The Force Awakens. I obviously see the parallels between that and A New Hope... I just don't care. Having said that, during the title scroll for Last Jedi I couldn't help but think of the beginning to Empire Strikes Back. The bad guys have tracked down the good guys to their remote base and the good guys are scrambling to escape. I thought to myself "if this movie starts on an ice planet the internet is going to lose it's mind".

The comedy largely worked for me, and I'm not really sure why it didn't work for others. The main Star Wars movies have always been fairly light, family friendly films. Maybe Rogue One got some people into a "these are dark, serious movies" mindset?

Yoda is such a dick. He knew damn well Rey had already taken the ancient Jedi texts from the tree when he burned it down. "There's nothing in those books that Rey doesn't already possess." What a troll.

Poe Dameron was criminally underused in TFA, but he got plenty of screen time here. I generally like the character, but now I can see he is way better when piloting a ship. Unfortunately we only got to see that for a very brief period of time right at the beginning of the film. It was damn cool though.

The Finn/Rose storyline didn't bother me at all when watching the movie, but now that I've read the comments here I have to agree. It was completely pointless.

Admiral Ackbar died fairly unceremoniously.

I really wish they had found a way to rework the scene when Leia gets sucked into space, so that her character dies there. I don't think it would have been too hard either. Since her hand moves to force pull her back on board, I feel like it wouldn't have been that hard to reshoot it so that it looks like she uses the force to save some of our heroes on board. Maybe by closing a door to stop the ship from tearing apart so that she goes out a hero. It's not perfect, but audiences would understand and it would allow them to not kill off Luke.

Speaking of, that still really bothers me. What a gut punch his death was.

The visuals in this film are incredible. I really want a high quality print of the scene with Luke standing off against Kylo Ren. I think visually, this is head and shoulders above every other Star Wars film.

The stuff with Kylo and Rey really worked for me. Those two have great chemistry together.

It's amazing to me how much character and emotion filmmakers can get out of the droids in this franchise. Even the non-humanoid ones like R2-D2, BB-8, and evil BB-8 (who might be the best villain in the movie besides Kylo Ren).

After just one viewing, I have to say... this is not one of my favorite Star Wars films. I'm hoping that changes on multiple viewings, but right now it's well below TFA for me.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:10 pm

naednek wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:04 pm I personally think the whole your parents are nothing, is a trick play. Ben Solo is trying to get her to join him and is toying with her emotions.

I don't remember what his exact words were. But I would be curious to see if how he describes her parents matches up with how he views HIS parents. It could be leading to a brother/sister situation.

Either way though, I'm fine with her parents being nobodies to the story. There's an argument to be made that they've spent too much time (the better part of 2 movies) building up the mystery of who her parents are in order to just leave it at "they are junkie losers and we'll never speak of them again". I'm just not that interested, so I would be ok if they never mention it again.

killbot737 · Post by **killbot737** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:53 pm

I think Phasma is going to return, possibly in a Vader-like state given her method of defeat. I also think Del Toro's guy will show up again and semi-screw both sides.

I wasn't totally surprised by Luke's ending. I sort of thought he was doing the Kenobi sacrifice when they laid into him with all the lasers. I guess he pulled it off anyway. Snoke definitely got shortchanged as the big bad, but I agree they're trying to become what they need to be and leave the past behind. (See what I did there?)

I thought the evil force hole was pushing pretty close to Luke in the cave on Dagobah. Neither character got what they were expecting out of their encounters.

I'm wondering whether the red guard are the other Knights of Ren? I'll just add that to my "plausible" list.

The space penguins were WAY better comic relief than tentacle blob monsters in TFA (and JarJar, but I barely think I need to mention that).