He ends up in Poe's plot ONLY because he gets captured trying to run off and find Rey. If Rose doesn't catch him, Finn reunites with Rey. And the side plot leads to Finn's character development in the movie, so it's not a complete waste, and he's not reduced to a side bar considering his role in the climax of the film (the motivations for which extend from that side plot with Rose).Scuzz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:53 pm Finn wakes up just as the movie starts. He then ends up in a plot of Po's and runs off to grab a guy with a person who should have stopped him.
Finn ends up in a side plot that really serves no purpose except to bring the guy who is going to expose them to the New Order.
The movie separates them and, because of the foolishness of the plot, pretty much reduces Finn to a side bar.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
As I said, that's pretty much obvious with the kind of brush strokes they've been making. I'm saying that as a whole, they don't even feel all that cohesive with everything else that came before it. Aside from the OT characters, there doesn't seem to be any kind of consistency whatsoever, hence the different frequency. It's not about liking or hating these movies. It's more about something fundamentally wrong with the new trilogy in the way they've chosen to approach things. It's all fine wanting something completely new, but this trilogy is part of a long-running saga, therefore there should be some semblance of fitting in with the rest.Brian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:49 pmIf there's one theme I've seen hammered over and over in the reviews of TLJ it's been this, "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." Which is what they seem to be doing. Killing off all the OT characters, vision, and perhaps most importantly, the expectations of long-time fans.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Finn doesn't know where Rey is. When the rebels got the map finished did they publish it or something so that everyone would know where he was?pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:54 pmHe ends up in Poe's plot ONLY because he gets captured trying to run off and find Rey. If Rose doesn't catch him, Finn reunites with Rey. And the side plot leads to Finn's character development in the movie, so it's not a complete waste, and he's not reduced to a side bar considering his role in the climax of the film (the motivations for which extend from that side plot with Rose).Scuzz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:53 pm Finn wakes up just as the movie starts. He then ends up in a plot of Po's and runs off to grab a guy with a person who should have stopped him.
Finn ends up in a side plot that really serves no purpose except to bring the guy who is going to expose them to the New Order.
The movie separates them and, because of the foolishness of the plot, pretty much reduces Finn to a side bar.
The part with Rose saving his life was one of the stupid things I mentioned above.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
For me, TLJ came across as more reminiscent of a modern version of The NeverEnding Story or Zathura than a Star Wars movie. Were it a standalone original movie on that level, it may well have seemed a decent take on that genre. But as a Star Wars movie with well-developed characters the audience ought to care care about, it just falls flat. Particularly in comparison to the middle movie of the Original Trilogy, because audiences cared about the stakes involved in The Empire Strikes Back, they cared when Han was frozen in carbonite with the emotional moment when Leia expresses her love for him and he reponds, "I know." There's nothing even remotely comparable in TLJ, and the stakes involved are left ambiguous at best. By the time the movie concludes, it feels as if it ends in much the same place it started: the state of the war remains the same, if not simply worse for both sides, and character growth feels stagnant, if not nonexistent.
I suspect the primary series of Star Wars movies are most likely destined to follow the example of the Transformers movies (i.e. reliable revenue and merchandising generators with suitably impressive special effects, but inexorably poorer storytelling as the series continues). Which, as Brian put it, effectively kills off much of the enthusiasm many fans once held for the franchise.
I suspect the primary series of Star Wars movies are most likely destined to follow the example of the Transformers movies (i.e. reliable revenue and merchandising generators with suitably impressive special effects, but inexorably poorer storytelling as the series continues). Which, as Brian put it, effectively kills off much of the enthusiasm many fans once held for the franchise.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
War. War never changes
But yes, good point. Ironically enough, it's Luke who got the biggest plot and character development (whether we agree with the outcome or not) through this trilogy so far.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
5 people in an echo chamber does not equal played out or the death of a massive franchise. Based on real life interactions star wars is not only not fizzling or played out but is gaining massive momentum. I guess it's fair if it sheds some of the old guard fans as well.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
You're saying this thread hasn't successfully murdered Star Wars??Chrisoc13 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:16 am 5 people in an echo chamber does not equal played out or the death of a massive franchise. Based on real life interactions star wars is not only not fizzling or played out but is gaining massive momentum. I guess it's fair if it sheds some of the old guard fans as well.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
That's absurd; who suggested the franchise would die or fizzle out?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I don't think it's going to die or fizzle out. It is, however, going to lose the magic it once had. Star Trek has already done the same thing. Apparently it doesn't matter because there are a lot of people out there who will pay to see polished science fiction movies, even if they aren't very good. Will they have the lasting appeal of the originals? Not a chance.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Nobody's outright suggesting it, but at the rate they're going now with the type of character and plotting they have, probably only a matter of time.
Oh, and one could argue that SW already lost its magic long ago starting with the prequels. Rogue One was the only one that even came close to recapturing it.
Oh, and one could argue that SW already lost its magic long ago starting with the prequels. Rogue One was the only one that even came close to recapturing it.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Nostalgia can make us remember anything as great, even when it was often just good...or outright bad.McNutt wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:14 pm I don't think it's going to die or fizzle out. It is, however, going to lose the magic it once had. Star Trek has already done the same thing. Apparently it doesn't matter because there are a lot of people out there who will pay to see polished science fiction movies, even if they aren't very good. Will they have the lasting appeal of the originals? Not a chance.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Did they ever say how there came to be a map that located Luke? I can't remember, but it seems like something that should have an explanation.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
It’s kind of discussed in the Poe comics right now. The Explorer (the old guy in the beginning of FA) is a researcher of the Force. He was able to track down the location of the first Jedi temple and believed that is where Luke would go. They never really explain how he knew Luke was there but it may be more explained in the comics soon. He is part of the current story line.McNutt wrote:Did they ever say how there came to be a map that located Luke? I can't remember, but it seems like something that should have an explanation.
Interestingly the Explorer does not believe in a only light or dark side Force.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
The title crawl for The Force Awakens explains things pretty well, too:
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.
With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.
Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke’s whereabouts….
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
So, mission accomplished?pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:37 pm The title crawl for The Force Awakens explains things pretty well, too:
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Luke must have wanted to be found at some point as R2 D2 had the last piece of the puzzle with him. Who else would have put it there?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Although he clearly behaved like he didn't want to be found, even after he was found.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Yep, now it can go back and have a nice long nap.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I think it might have been R2 itself. Think of it as a self-preservation method. It probably stuck its little arm into a computer at some point and found it, and when it knew Luke wouldn't come back, went into a self-induced shutdown in order to protect his whereabouts. That's a much better and more satisfying explanation than what the director gave anyway, ie the droid funk.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I *think* it was in R2-D2 because part of the map was in the Imperial Archives (IIRC Kylo Ren says so in TFA), and R2-D2 hacked into the Death Star computers during A New Hope. Not sure how clear that is or whether I'm partly making that up, but I believe it's the case.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I think that's about right. And if I'm not remembering wrong, Leia or maybe C3P0 confirm it when they're all in the base together.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
If that is true he probably also has the phone numbers for everyone in the galaxy. Why would he download something nobody was searching for at the time?El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:20 pmI *think* it was in R2-D2 because part of the map was in the Imperial Archives (IIRC Kylo Ren says so in TFA), and R2-D2 hacked into the Death Star computers during A New Hope. Not sure how clear that is or whether I'm partly making that up, but I believe it's the case.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Who knows without knowing more about computer power / file size / etc. in the Star Wars universe, although it's not that hard to come up with a reasonable-ish explanation. Like, at the time R2-D2 was looking for a map of the Death Star and information on where in the map Leia was being held. Seems entirely plausible that R2 would basically go to C:/DeathStar/Archives/Maps and download everything as part of that.Scuzz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:15 pmIf that is true he probably also has the phone numbers for everyone in the galaxy. Why would he download something nobody was searching for at the time?El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:20 pmI *think* it was in R2-D2 because part of the map was in the Imperial Archives (IIRC Kylo Ren says so in TFA), and R2-D2 hacked into the Death Star computers during A New Hope. Not sure how clear that is or whether I'm partly making that up, but I believe it's the case.
Bear in mind that it doesn't need to have been created *as a map to the temple*. It just needs to be an old map that happened to include the location of the temple.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Is that on the latest Sports Illustrated calendar?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I finally saw it this weekend and, meh, the story was nothing special and the sudden narrative shift was noticeable. I'm sure it's because I'm old and Disney Lucas are unlocking the full potential of advertising to a lost 50% of revenue sources but I'm going to agree with unpopular opinion that the very sudden shift to human women of the rebellion was too in my face and then you start add on animal cruelty and corporate war profiteering and the movie felt hamfisted.
Good for the next generation, if they see it with the same sense of good v evil as we had when were kids and for having more than a token woman in a nearly all white cast but the change in narrative was a distraction for this old man.
Also what they hell ever happened the beautiful cut scenes. I felt like the tone was set for disappointment when they opening description had poor fade into the opening scene and then they never did even one scene iconic fade after that. It was incredibly distracting by its absence.
I rented a bunch of other movies this weekend... Maybe I should dig up each thread and piss on each one individually. Though, having seen only the first half of Baby Driver so far, it's shaping up to be my favorite movie since Dead Pool in the Theater (Coincidentally watched right about the same time as TFA). I do fear I'm at the point where it gets dark and that it's darkness will take away from the *everything* so far that I've loved about the movie so far. I hope I'm wrong. If the second half lives can maintain what the first half started. Then it will get the rare LordMortis, five out of five couch sloth rating.
Good for the next generation, if they see it with the same sense of good v evil as we had when were kids and for having more than a token woman in a nearly all white cast but the change in narrative was a distraction for this old man.
Also what they hell ever happened the beautiful cut scenes. I felt like the tone was set for disappointment when they opening description had poor fade into the opening scene and then they never did even one scene iconic fade after that. It was incredibly distracting by its absence.
I would go so far as to say Rogue one did capture that magic, even if the story wasn't a triumph of good over evil.Rogue One was the only one that even came close to recapturing it.
I rented a bunch of other movies this weekend... Maybe I should dig up each thread and piss on each one individually. Though, having seen only the first half of Baby Driver so far, it's shaping up to be my favorite movie since Dead Pool in the Theater (Coincidentally watched right about the same time as TFA). I do fear I'm at the point where it gets dark and that it's darkness will take away from the *everything* so far that I've loved about the movie so far. I hope I'm wrong. If the second half lives can maintain what the first half started. Then it will get the rare LordMortis, five out of five couch sloth rating.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I watched it again recently with my kids. I thought it held up pretty well, though with some real flaws. The definite theme of the movie was "this isn't going to go the way you think!", kind of playing on traditional heroic movie expectations in a similar way as Game of Thrones likes to do. Like, sometimes the mercenary turns out to be a good guy with a heart of gold....and sometimes he's a mercenary who is happy to sell you out when things go bad...because he's a mercenary. Sometimes the villain turns on the leader and helps save the day...and sometimes he turns on the leader and seizes power for himself...because he's a villain. Sometimes the plucky iconoclastic underling going off half-cocked saves the day from incompetent or feckless leaders...and sometimes he fucks things up and gets a lot of people killed because his plan is worse than the leaders' plan. I enjoyed that stuff, although insofar as it's subverting expectations of how things go from the original trilogy, I can see how that might rub some people poorly.
There's also definitely some dumb stuff - the Leia Mary Poppins thing is pretty silly, Rose crashing into Finn's ship at the last minute was dumb. The Casino Planet interlude didn't really mesh well with the urgency of a chase scene (although that bothered me less on the re-watch...that sequence felt much longer the first time that I saw the movie).
But I liked the way they subverted expectations and made things a little more interesting and complicated. I thought the acting was pretty good (especially Rey, Kylo Ren, and Luke), and overall that it was pretty well executed. At the end of the day I think Empire is really the only Star Wars movie that's a great movie, and the others are either shades of "pretty good with flaws" or "awful and terrible" (the prequels). Last Jedi is definitely one of the better movies.
There's also definitely some dumb stuff - the Leia Mary Poppins thing is pretty silly, Rose crashing into Finn's ship at the last minute was dumb. The Casino Planet interlude didn't really mesh well with the urgency of a chase scene (although that bothered me less on the re-watch...that sequence felt much longer the first time that I saw the movie).
But I liked the way they subverted expectations and made things a little more interesting and complicated. I thought the acting was pretty good (especially Rey, Kylo Ren, and Luke), and overall that it was pretty well executed. At the end of the day I think Empire is really the only Star Wars movie that's a great movie, and the others are either shades of "pretty good with flaws" or "awful and terrible" (the prequels). Last Jedi is definitely one of the better movies.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Now I need to to go in the ranking thread I saw when looking for this... :p
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Nuance is not something that Star Wars has incorporated before. So it's going to throw some folks off. Personally, I liked a lot of what Rian did with Last Jedi...except sloppy, milk drinking Luke and some of the stale Star War-isms (too much time spent on a new Cantina sequence in my opinion).
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
It didn't seem nuanced to me. It seemed like jarring in your face change.
Luke milking the alien was actually one of the more nuanced moments and I appreciated it. I am always on the wrong side, aren't I?except sloppy, milk drinking Luke
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
It really is funny how that milk drinking scene stands out for so many people. Every time the conversations for TLJ come up here at work, within about 10 seconds someone brings up the milk drinking scene.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
The nuance was found in its ability to find a middle ground between good and evil. We still have good and bad, light and dark. But we now have some grey scale that bridges the two. It was long needed, in my opinion.LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:29 pm It didn't seem nuanced to me. It seemed like jarring in your face change.
As for the milk scene, good lord. I still wake up screaming about that.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I thought Luke was fairly well done. I think it added some depth to the character and I found him to be the most interesting part of the movie. But what I don't get is that while it borrowed a lot from the EU such as his Academy and the straddling between Light and Dark, that people suddenly had such a problem with how he was portrayed in what we eventually did get. This is a character that we haven't seen growth in since the 80's, and I think it's understandable that he'd be a different kind of person than how we originally saw him as. I think that if he'd have stayed the same way as we'd seen him last, there would still be complaints about lack of character growth. For me, the way Luke's story ended was perfect. If anything, it showed that he finally understood his place in the galaxy and was at peace with it. And I'd take it over the way Han was killed off any day.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I just wish he’d have become lactose intolerant over the intervening years.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I'm still not sure why Luke died. Was he just so tired that he couldn't go on? I've felt that way after some long nights, but somehow I still made it through.
And is there really any downside for a Jedi to die? They can appear on any planet and can apparently still do stuff.
And is there really any downside for a Jedi to die? They can appear on any planet and can apparently still do stuff.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
From the prequel films, Qui-Gonn was the one to figure out the ghost-Jedi trick and taught Yoda, who told Obi-Wan about it at the end of Ep3 and set him to training for it. I think we can assume the two of them taught Luke over the years between milkings.
They made it seem like it's a difficult thing to do and requires training. Doesn't explain ghost Anakin at the end of Ep6, but he was "the chosen one" I suppose?
They made it seem like it's a difficult thing to do and requires training. Doesn't explain ghost Anakin at the end of Ep6, but he was "the chosen one" I suppose?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
Luke was able to physically interact on Crait via his force apparition - he handed Leia Han's old Falcon dice. I gather that the strain of creating a physical apparition across star systems takes such a phenomenal amount of, um, force power (midichlorians?) that it basically drained Luke's life force in the process. Remember that earlier in the movie, when Kylo Ren and Rey are having one of their Force Skype talks, Kylo ponders out loud whether Rey is physically appearing / interacting with where he is, but then dismisses that possibility by saying essentially, "No, that's impossible, it would take too much power" or something like that.McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:03 am I'm still not sure why Luke died. Was he just so tired that he couldn't go on? I've felt that way after some long nights, but somehow I still made it through.
And is there really any downside for a Jedi to die? They can appear on any planet and can apparently still do stuff.
I don't know how much this is laid out, but on force ghosts it seems like sufficiently advanced Jedi (and probably Sith) can manifest themselves in certain spots for certain amounts of time, but it's not like they can appear all the time and do an unlimited amount of stuff.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
I'm betting if he'd just left those goddamn dice at home, he would've survived it.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)
They were pretty sweet dice, though.
Also, the deleted scenes show that Luke spent 80% of his force energy transporting bottles of Island Sea Cow milk for him to drink.
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