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[NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

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[NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

While I'm highly skeptical of most UFO reports, given this particular one comes directly from the Pentagon/DoD, includes ATFLIR video and is reported by the New York Times, it lends more credence than most (and it's certainly difficult to imagine a rational earthly explanation for what the pilots observed and recorded):

2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’
New York Times wrote:Cmdr. David Fravor and Lt. Cmdr. Jim Slaight were on a routine training mission 100 miles out into the Pacific when the radio in each of their F/A-18F Super Hornets crackled: An operations officer aboard the U.S.S. Princeton, a Navy cruiser, wanted to know if they were carrying weapons.

“Two CATM-9s,” Commander Fravor replied, referring to dummy missiles that could not be fired. He had not been expecting any hostile exchanges off the coast of San Diego that November afternoon in 2004.

Commander Fravor, in a recent interview with The New York Times, recalled what happened next. Some of it is captured in a video made public by officials with a Pentagon program that investigated U.F.O.s.

“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.

The radio operator instructed Commander Fravor and Commander Slaight, who has given a similar account, to investigate.

The two fighter planes headed toward the objects. The Princeton alerted them as they closed in, but when they arrived at “merge plot” with the object — naval aviation parlance for being so close that the Princeton could not tell which were the objects and which were the fighter jets — neither Commander Fravor nor Commander Slaight could see anything at first. There was nothing on their radars, either.

Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. It was calm that day, but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.

Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.

Commander Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object.

But then the object peeled away. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said in the interview. He was, he said, “pretty weirded out.”

The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.

They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.

“Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.”
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Jaymann »

Looks like a bug crawling across their camera.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Kraken »

If they had both visual and instrument contact, I'm prepared to believe that they encountered something real that's unexplained. I'm not prepared to leap directly to extraterrestrial spacecraft -- while that's not impossible, it's improbable enough to be near the bottom of the list of explanations. As much as we'd probably all like to believe that, it requires a higher standard of evidence.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

I read the story quickly. Does it have any sourcing other than the two pilots (only one of whom is quoted, while the other is said to have given "a similar account")?

Seems like there were a few other people involved, including the radio and radar operators as well as their superiors. Do they agree with the pilot(s)' version of events?
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Jaymann wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:23 pm
Looks like a bug crawling across their camera.
There's more to the video than that, e.g. here's a more thorough analysis:
The GIMBAL footage shows what was on display in the cockpit for the pilots of the Super Hornet. Here are the major features and what they mean:

Enlarge Image
Description of HUD (Heads Up Display) seen in the GIMBAL video as filmed by a US Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet using the Raytheon AN/ASQ-228 Advanced Targeting Forward-Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) pod.

Analyzing the Video

As the video starts, this is what the pilots observe from inside their cockpit:

• The sensor is in “white-hot” mode—white elements in the display are warmer than the dark, or cooler, areas. The UAP appears as a white shape in the middle of the screen.

• The chasing aircraft is in a left-hand turn flying Mach 0.58 at an altitude of 25,010 feet.

• The UAP is flying slightly below 2 degrees and 54 degrees to the left of the Super Hornet, traveling right to left.

• Looking closely, we can see a dark, or opaque field that appears to surround or encapsulate the object.

The pilots aboard the Super Hornet are not only highly capable fighter pilots, but they are trained observers skilled at scrutinizing their observations and targets in order to ascertain “friend or foe.” They are specifically trained to look for discreet changes in shape, size position, flight attitude (angles), and speed in order to determine the nature of the threat. They are able to discern nuanced details that few people would normally recognize. Paramount to their training is their ability to handle stress and maintain radio discipline. In the footage audio, they are clearly struggling to understand what they are witnessing.

At 0:03, in the first radio transmission, we hear one of the pilots state that it is “a [expletive] drone” aircraft.

At 0:06, upon further observation, a different observer calmly states, “There is a whole fleet of them. Look on the ASA (radar display).” The first observer responds with “My gosh!” It is important to note that the ATFLIR has only a single object in its display. The radar is simultaneously providing the pilots a picture of the larger air space, where they are tracking multiple targets.

At 0:11, it is noted that “They are all going against the wind. The wind is 120 knots (138 mph) out of the west.” We can see that the speed and altitude of the object is unusual for any drone-type aircraft. On that information alone, the likelihood of an entire fleet of drones capable of operating under this scenario is highly improbable and would require resources only few nations could afford.

In the midst of this exchange, the sensor is switched from “white-hot” to “black-hot.” The imaging of the object is now much clearer. It has a distinct shape: a distorted oval with small protrusions from the top and bottom. The object’s opaque aura is now also very distinct: a “cool” glow that extends about a body thickness around the entire object. There appears to be no observable flight surfaces or exhaust plume, nor any typical components usually associated with conventional aircraft.

“Look at that thing, dude.” The observer is clearly surprised at what is being seen.

At 0:24, the object makes a small, but very sharp, altitude change, possibly indicating it may be operating in a vacuum environment. Its direction and speed remain unchanged despite the continuous 120-knot headwind it is encountering.

“That’s not [unintelligible] is it?”

At 0:27, the object begins a series of distinct rotations and changes orientation by almost 100 degrees. Its orientation is now perpendicular to the horizontal plane despite the headwinds. This maneuver is executed in a manner that is inconsistent with current principles of aerodynamics, and possibly indicative of a vacuum environment. As the video concludes, the object's orientation and performance seem to defy current principals of physics to include atmospheric resistance and normal aerodynamic forces. During the orientation change, it also slows to a near stop, but does not change altitude.

One observer states, “Look at that thing!”

Another observer says, “It’s rotating.”
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:26 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:23 pm
Looks like a bug crawling across their camera.
There's more to the video than that, e.g. here's a more thorough analysis:
[...]
FWIW, that site ("To The Stars Academy") is the one founded by a member of BLINK-182 that has gained a reputation for scammy fundraising in the service of UFOlogy.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Holman wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:34 pm
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:26 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:23 pm
Looks like a bug crawling across their camera.
There's more to the video than that, e.g. here's a more thorough analysis:
[...]
FWIW, that site ("To The Stars Academy") is the one founded by a member of BLINK-182 that has gained a reputation for scammy fundraising in the service of UFOlogy.
Be that as it may, their analysis reads more coherently than most in the UFOlogy arena.
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by GreenGoo »

Kraken wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:47 pm
If they had both visual and instrument contact, I'm prepared to believe that they encountered something real that's unexplained. I'm not prepared to leap directly to extraterrestrial spacecraft -- while that's not impossible, it's improbable enough to be near the bottom of the list of explanations. As much as we'd probably all like to believe that, it requires a higher standard of evidence.
Nothing is an alien vessel until it has been proven conclusively to be an alien vessel. Anything less and it's some sort of mundane phenomenon that has not been identified yet. I do not have an open mind on this sort of thing.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Yeah, I don't necessarily see this as proof of Little Green Men, either.

All I can say is that it seems evident of something truly extraordinary. I'm also curious to know more about what was under the surface in the sea, generating frothy waves and foam. Much as I'd like to believe these were tests of experimental US craft seemingly-capable of defying the laws of aerodynamics (at least as they're currently understood), it seems highly implausible that the Pentagon/DoD would favour revealing such technology so publically. It also seems highly unlikely that any foreign nation would risk testing such technology off the coast of San Diego.

The fact tbat the Pentagon and DoD went public with it at all is quite remarkable in and of itself. And like the pilot said in the NYT article, I have no idea what it was but I also want to fly one.
"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Daehawk »

The fact tbat the Pentagon and DoD went public with it at all is quite remarkable in and of itself. And like the pilot said in the NYT article, I have no idea what it was but I also want to fly one.
Unless its filled with liquid then it's acceleration would probably either splat you against the inside wall or rip you apart in your chair. Barring some internal inertial gravity. It was in water doing something...or another one was.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Freyland »

Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:08 pm
Yeah, I don't necessarily see this as proof of Little Green Men, either.

All I can say is that it seems evident of something truly extraordinary. I'm also curious to know more about what was under the surface in the sea, generating frothy waves and foam. Much as I'd like to believe these were tests of experimental US craft seemingly-capable of defying the laws of aerodynamics (at least as they're currently understood), it seems highly implausible that the Pentagon/DoD would favour revealing such technology so publically. It also seems highly unlikely that any foreign nation would risk testing such technology off the coast of San Diego.

The fact tbat the Pentagon and DoD went public with it at all is quite remarkable in and of itself. And like the pilot said in the NYT article, I have no idea what it was but I also want to fly one.
If it causes a big enough splash (pun intended), the conspiratorial part of me would suggest it was timed to distract from certain R&P events occurring now or suggested to occur very soon. Why else just drop this story out there now, 13 years after the occurrence?
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

It's very frustrating journalism because it's really just reporting what the pilot claims is a first-hand account. There's no further investigation (what do the other witnesses say, and what happens to reports like this in the military?) and no context (why is this coming now?). If you're going to publish this account as news, you have to ask more questions.

It reads a like a human-interest story: "Pilot says weird thing happened," not "Weird thing is real and serious."

The NYT is probably as surprised as everyone that this has taken off as a viral story. I imagine the follow-up reporting will splash cold water on it.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Holman wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:34 pm
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:26 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:23 pm
Looks like a bug crawling across their camera.
There's more to the video than that, e.g. here's a more thorough analysis:
[...]
FWIW, that site ("To The Stars Academy") is the one founded by a member of BLINK-182 that has gained a reputation for scammy fundraising in the service of UFOlogy.
Ton DeLonge. Total UFO believer and yes, very scammy "investment offering" for his disclosure project.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Punisher »

GreenGoo wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:08 pm
Kraken wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:47 pm
If they had both visual and instrument contact, I'm prepared to believe that they encountered something real that's unexplained. I'm not prepared to leap directly to extraterrestrial spacecraft -- while that's not impossible, it's improbable enough to be near the bottom of the list of explanations. As much as we'd probably all like to believe that, it requires a higher standard of evidence.
Nothing is an alien vessel until it has been proven conclusively to be an alien vessel. Anything less and it's some sort of mundane phenomenon that has not been identified yet. I do not have an open mind on this sort of thing.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by GreenGoo »

Punisher wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:23 am

This is EXACTLY what an Alien in Hiding would say! Trump needs to expand the wall to a dome to prevent the real Aliens from coming here! I'm giving the MiB's a call about you!!
It's pure coincidence that I advocate the disarming of the citizenry.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Here's a FighterSweep.com write-up that describes what transpired in much greater detail However, since the author is a fellow fighter pilot writing for a site with a hefty military emphasis, prepare for acronyms-aplenty; that said, it's well worth reading in its entirety for those interested in a more detailed account of what happened:
As Dave was pulling for nose-on and trying to get a dogfight lock with his radar, the AAV tightened its turn, “lift vector on, then aft” as Dave described, passed behind his tail and accelerated away at multi-Mach speed. Dave immediately queried Princeton for a snap-vector but the SPY-1 radar had also lost the contact. The first calls from Princeton were “picture clean.” A few moments later Princeton came back with, “You’re not going to believe this, it’s at your CAP.” Princeton had picked up the AAV hovering at 24K at the assigned Lat/Long Dave had used earlier during training as his orbiting point.

Though low on gas, the FASTEAGLE flight swung through the CAP position to try and pick up the AAV again. They saw nothing more on their way back to Nimitz. Even the 100 meter circle of turbulent ocean water had disappeared. That spot was now indistinguishable from the rest of the sea’s surface. Asked later, Dave reported that he had not seen anything on or below the surface of the ocean that may have caused the turbulent circle of water. It had existed when they had first visually acquired the tic-tac, then was gone when they circled back a few minutes later.

Back on Nimitz after recovery, the four crew headed down to the paraloft to remove their gear. The next four crews from VFA-41 were getting dressed for their training mission to the same area, using the same assigned Lat/Longs as CAP points. Dave and his crewmembers passed on what they had seen to the new guys and reminded them to get tape if they could.

By the time the new crew launched, rendezvoused and checked in with the E-2 for control, it was early afternoon; 1500. The planes separated, with one heading to that same southern CAP location. They were cruising along at 20K and 300kts, max endurance. Again, the jet, radar and also, this time, the FLIR were spanking new and operating perfectly.

The WSO first picked up a contact on the radar around 30nm away while it was operating in the RWS scan mode. He checked the coordinates and it was indeed hovering at their precise CAP point. He attempted several STT locks, to no avail. Later, in the debrief, he explained that he had multiple telltale cues of EA.

The target aspect on the track file was turning through 360 degrees along with some other distinct jamming indications. In the less precise scan mode, the return indicated that the object was, in the WSO’s words, “A few thousand feet below us. Around 15-20K– but hovering stationary.” The only movement was generated by the closure of the fighter to the CAP location.

The WSO resorted to the FLIR pod on board, slaving it to the weak track the RWS mode had been able to generate. He recorded the following sequence to the on-board recorder. Using the IR mode, he was able to lock onto the AAV. It showed up on his screen and on tape as a white object in a black background hovering with no known means.

The IR camera did not detect roiling hot gasses blasting from below the AAV, as they would with a Harrier or a helicopter. It was simply hanging in midair. He switched to the TV mode and was able to again lock the FLIR onto the object while still trying, with no luck, to get a STT track on the radar. As he watched it, the AAV moved out of his screen to the left so suddenly it almost seemed to disappear. On the tape, when it is slowed down, the object accelerates out of the field of view with shocking speed. The WSO was not able to reacquire the AAV either in RWS or with the FLIR.

...

I’m not sure what to make of these events. I’ve loved the story since first listening because it is so crazy. I had never given aliens or UFOs much thought. It was a waste of my CPU power to mull a question like that. If they wanted to make contact, they would. If they wanted to observe from a distance, then they would be impossible to discern given the assumed high technology required to visit.

But now I was faced with credible witnesses. Not crackpots wearing foil hats but people I knew and people who were from my world. There were multiple, corroborating platforms that detected the AAVs using varied sensors. And, of course, the eight eyeballs that actually got a visual on the white tic-tac as Dave maneuvered to merge with it. He doesn’t have to be a stranger to you either. Watch him on the PBS series, Carrier, and generate your own opinion of his professionalism and sanity.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

Just to be skeptical: is it not possible that, rather than "aliens at last," the story here is "Chinese sub with a very advanced new drone"?
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am
Just to be skeptical: is it not possible that, rather than "aliens at last," the story here is "Chinese sub with a very advanced new drone"?
At 2004, China has a drone that can fly at least 3 times faster than F/A-18F Super Hornets and have flight range of at least 60 miles and can be controlled by a submerged sub?

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

That's why I'm asking. Is an Earth-tech explanation for this simply impossible?

Consider: maybe the drone (or whatever) appeared to behave as it did not because it was unimaginably supertech but through some combination or high performance and electronic deception? Maybe, rather than the object getting from point A to point B so quickly, there were instead two of them, one of them already at B.

While scaring us at our training exercises might be something aliens would enjoy, we KNOW it's something rival powers enjoy.

Before dismissing mundane explanations because they're unlikely, remember that we're being asked to replace them with explanations that are completely unprecedented and for which these phenomena don't actually constitute proof.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Kraken »

Slate had a write-up of conspiracy theories (because of course there are), the gist being that this is a false-flag government bid to make us support much higher military spending to thwart an alien invasion. There might or might not be something about a world government in there. The mystery craft are holograms. Special holograms that you can touch and that show up on radar. It's all very convoluted.

I always thought that covering up UFOs was supposed to be the conspiracy, so this amused me.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Carpet_pissr »

These are not your Dad’s UFO conspiracy theorists.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am
Just to be skeptical: is it not possible that, rather than "aliens at last," the story here is "Chinese sub with a very advanced new drone"?
Clandestine American experimental testing strikes me as much more likely, especially given San Diego's proximity to various military bases and such. Perhaps to see how well their autonomous AAV drones engage/evade top-notch US pilots and planes.

If the technology was man-made, it's unlikely a foreign power would risk testing -- and potentially losing -- such technology in enemy waters, off the coast of San Diego.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by RunningMn9 »

Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 am
remember that we're being asked to replace them with explanations that are completely unprecedented and for which these phenomena don't actually constitute proof.
Were we? I read the original set of articles (at NYT) and as far as I could tell, no explanation was offered. The story was simply that the Pentagon didn't have an explanation (nor did the Navy pilots), and that based on what they discovered, we have nothing to counter what they've seen.

Not being able to counter what they observed isn't related to whether it's aliens or a rival power (obviously far more likely).

The top speed of an F/A-18 Super Hornet is about 1,200 miles per hour. The fastest UAV that I'm aware of is the SR-72 at 4500 mph. And that doesn't exist yet (and can only achieve that with a scramjet engine that I don't believe is in production yet). And while the Chinese might have a UAV that travels at 3600 mph, does it have one that can do with without any exhaust plume or heat signature of any kind tied to the propulsion system?

Because there wasn't one in that video.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Isgrimnur »

D-21 drone was 2,215 mph. And that was circa 1970.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Smoove_B »

Best X-Files Season 11 viral promo ever (starts 1/3/18).

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 am
Before dismissing mundane explanations because they're unlikely, remember that we're being asked to replace them with explanations that are completely unprecedented and for which these phenomena don't actually constitute proof.
I personally dislike the "it's unprecedented, therefore the least likely option" argument (for most things, not just this.

We live in a chaotic world. New shit happens all the time, and as they say in investing parlance "past results are not an indicator of future results". :D

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:19 pm
Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 am
Before dismissing mundane explanations because they're unlikely, remember that we're being asked to replace them with explanations that are completely unprecedented and for which these phenomena don't actually constitute proof.
I personally dislike the "it's unprecedented, therefore the least likely option" argument (for most things, not just this.

We live in a chaotic world. New shit happens all the time, and as they say in investing parlance "past results are not an indicator of future results". :D
But the new shit that happens all the time is based on the old shit getting better or further developed.

Assuming it's aliens is the opposite of that. It's claiming something utterly and radically unconnected to what's known. Hence "unprecedented."
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by RunningMn9 »

Isgrimnur wrote:D-21 drone was 2,215 mph. And that was circa 1970.
That’s true. I’d also imagine the ramjet engine on it would light up the FLIR camera like a Christmas tree, no?

It isn’t the speed that has me skeptical, it’s the speed without an obvious heat signature that I find surprising.

And also the way that it can apparently alter its orientation without altering its velocity or trajectory.



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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by RunningMn9 »

I should point out that I’m 99% sure they’ve got a stink bug lodged in the FLIR camera assembly. :)


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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Isgrimnur »

RunningMn9 wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:43 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:D-21 drone was 2,215 mph. And that was circa 1970.
That’s true. I’d also imagine the ramjet engine on it would light up the FLIR camera like a Christmas tree, no?
...
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I would expect, but I'm not familiar with how, say, the F-117 appears on thermal.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Unagi »

I suppose the other option is that an alien lifeform from light-years away, has made it's way here to observe 'undetected' and really up-close and personal without any contact at all, because that's likely how that would go down.
It's just some alien lifeform that was not apprehended because they were just too darn fast, and yet they were really wise so didn't want to actually interfere with us by coming down and, like making fly-byes as they obverved us...

That makes a whole lot of sense. I bet that's how we discover life outside of earth... their "I bet I can out-fly you" approach to xeno-communications and relationships between intergalactic species.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Grifman »

Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:16 am
While scaring us at our training exercises might be something aliens would enjoy, we KNOW it's something rival powers enjoy.
Actually, no, most nations prefer not show off super secret technologies to their adversaries in this manner.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Grifman »

Well, I really can't take Trump seriously until he's willing to deal with the real illegal aliens. Forget the wall, we need a dome!
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Rip »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:04 am
RunningMn9 wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:43 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:D-21 drone was 2,215 mph. And that was circa 1970.
That’s true. I’d also imagine the ramjet engine on it would light up the FLIR camera like a Christmas tree, no?
...
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I would expect, but I'm not familiar with how, say, the F-117 appears on thermal.

Sent from my computer using my fingers.
Not certain but I can say it doesn't hover for shit.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by gameoverman »

There's no way I believe anyone can fly anything over the US and the military doesn't know who it is, and what it is. Since we have no definitive answers that leaves two possibilities. One, it's ours and they have no intention of saying that. Two, it belongs to a foreign power and they have no intention of saying that. Maybe because it's better to pretend like we don't know what it is when we really do know what it is because what do you gain by telling your enemy you know something they don't know you know when it's better that they don't know you know? Three, it's aliens...from space, and they have no intention of saying that, probably because they're working with the aliens or some of them are aliens.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by RunningMn9 »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:04 am
I would expect, but I'm not familiar with how, say, the F-117 appears on thermal.
On thermal? It appears like a heat plume. The stealth capability is for radar, it doesn't hide the heat signature from the exhaust. They are designed to hide the source, but if you are propelled by burning shit, you can't hide that IR signature. And clearly this wasn't a stealth craft, since the F/A-18 pilots were directed to the object because it showed up on radar.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
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Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Zarathud »

There are no aliens. Trump would be tweeting about it.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Isgrimnur »

RunningMn9 wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:04 am
I would expect, but I'm not familiar with how, say, the F-117 appears on thermal.
On thermal? It appears like a heat plume. The stealth capability is for radar, it doesn't hide the heat signature from the exhaust. They are designed to hide the source, but if you are propelled by burning shit, you can't hide that IR signature. And clearly this wasn't a stealth craft, since the F/A-18 pilots were directed to the object because it showed up on radar.
Wiki
An exhaust plume contributes a significant infrared signature. The F-117 reduces IR signature with a non-circular tail pipe (a slit shape) to minimize the exhaust cross-sectional volume and maximize the mixing of hot exhaust with cool ambient air.

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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by msduncan »

The way I see it:

1. We are far ahead in military technology than any other nation. China is still working on getting an operational aircraft carrier group up and running and they had to use a husk of another vessel to do it. They have some interesting missile technology but it's nothing revolutionary. Even we haven't shown anything close to what is reported here. There have been rumors of the 'Aurora' replacement of the still-very-futuristic retired SR-71 around since the 1970s but nobody has seen it.
2. If the objects in these videos are technology based and not natural, they are half a century or more ahead of even something like the mysterious and not-yet-confirmed Aurora craft. And I'm being generous and assuming that technology advancement goes on an exponential curve.
3. Could it be something natural? It could be... but do natural phenomenon run from pursuit or play cat and mouse games?

I'm not saying it's aliens. I agree that should be way down the list... but the obvious big hitter explanations of 'it's ours' or 'it's another nation's' seem highly unlikely. The fact that this was reported by credible people and agencies and cross-verified by multiple people and systems makes the idea that it was a glitch or misunderstanding or something someone thought they saw seem unlikely.

As for why this is just coming out now -- Didn't they just force declassify a bunch of stuff? I can't remember the specifics but I remember there was going to be a data dump.

Let's pretend for a minute this is other-worldly. They could be probes. Even in our infancy of space exploration we send automated probes to other planets. These probes are unintelligent and simply run commands issued to them from us directly. If these are extraterrestrial, they would be hundreds or thousands of years more advanced and would presumably be using extremely advanced artificial intelligence on board to automate the systems. In other words they may be going about testing, sampling, imaging, collecting, etc all without any intervention from the creators of the probes. This would explain the maneuvers that they are conducting that would kill any living creature from the g-forces. Artificial intelligence sufficiently advanced enough would be able to make decisions, evade, conceal, etc without any intervention or communication.
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Re: [NYT] 2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’

Post by Holman »

The usual UFO encounter description is suspicious to me because it's always "Like our planes but shinier/faster/more maneuverable!"

It reminds me of the ways previous civilizations have always described gods and angels and demons: "Just like us but more powerful/beautiful/horrifying!" It's hard not to see the usual pattern by which we project human-shaped meaning onto our mysteries, only in the UFO case we do it with technology rather than personhood because we've become so technologically oriented in our approach to the world.

I know I'm hitting the skepticism hard here. I'm still rather annoyed at the original NYT's presentation of just the pilots' account with no apparent follow-up reporting. Hopefully that will be rectified.
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