Help for my son

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naednek
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Re: Help for my son

Post by naednek »

Newcastle wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:47 pm Not sure how much you know about pot or drugs, so sorry if i come across as overbearing....OK so that is some very rookie level drug paraphernalia by the description you gave me. It kind of sounds like a makeshift apple pipe. I am not sure what he's using as a bowl actually here. What we use to do was use old water bottles with a aluminum stem and bowl, and make a water bong with it. Water bongs hit harder than pipes, the apple pipes dont hit as hard.

So if you want to keep track of his drug use, for starters look for lighters. Now, if you find one, check to see if one of the bottom corners has a black sticky stain on it. If you see a parade of lighters with that stuff on it, then he's into it on a very regular basis.

Also, I'd also be on the look out for pipes and long alumuminum tubes (Stems) with a small bowl on it. Pot leaves a sticky, black residue. If there is a lot in there, like chock full then you have a problem. If you can still see a lot of the aluminum tubes color then chances are he's not used it a lot.

He's also probably going to be on the lookout for a better stash spot since you tossed his room. I'd think like him and think where he might stash something.

The overall good news, it doesn't sound as if he's that far into it.
and most importantly, stop buying apples...
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Scuzz
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Scuzz »

Apples are a gateway fruit.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

my wife and I saw the therapist this morning and my son is here now. I'm in the waiting room now while he's in there.

therapy was very good for us. our therapist empowered us to make some guidelines with his behavior. here is what he suggested to do.

#1. Noah gives us his cell phone at 9pm Sunday- Thursday. Noah reports being tired and not sleeping. He also admits to talking to friends and this particular girl all night.
#2. Noah needs to have no absences, tardiness, or no D's.
#3. Noah can't hang out with his friends after school if he has any things from #2.
#4. He still can hang out with friends on the weekends.

Practically the only thing he says he cares about is hanging with his friends. This sounds like a good start and we can see how he reacts to this.

Noah has went from being antisocial and not wanting to be around kids his age, to now wanting to go hang with friends 24-7. He's done a 180 in the span of a month and it seems he's testing us and learning what he can and can't do. Add this girl breaking his heart and it's a perfect storm.

I'll see what happens after his personal session with the therapist.

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Holman
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Holman »

Do you know anything about the friends?

It might be good for you to have them over. Host a pizza/movie night for them at your place. It could help you get a sense of the crowd he favors, and it might make you seem less like an alien/enemy to his crew.

It's probably too much to try to be seen as the cool parents, but it might be worthwhile to be tolerable.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

we've had them over and they seem like good kids. my wife plays a really good host and they actually tell my son how "cool" she is.

I haven't seen any reason to believe they are bad or troubled kids.

I asked Noah yesterday if Brandon and Bruce both smoked weed and Noah said, "dad, everyone at school does. practically everyone and all you have to do is ask anyone for some and it's everywhere."

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Holman
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Holman »

That's good news: he's not running with the criminal crowd, and he's telling you the truth.

Just about anything you can do to keep him open to telling you the truth is probably good.
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Re: Help for my son

Post by RunningMn9 »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:29 am It's not as kooky as you might think. :D
I don't think that it's kooky, I think that it's an attempt to address the problem that doesn't understand the problem. Telling someone that is suffering from chemical depression that they need to exercise more or walk in the woods is inherently counter-productive and misunderstands the basic symptoms of chemical depression - the utter lack of will and ability to go on nature walks (along with everything else).

I can understand that there are times/cases when exercise can provide a useful element to treatment (for a variety of reasons). But it's always presented in such a ham-fisted way that makes the person that is suffering feel even more like their ailment is their fault (i.e. I wouldn't be suffering from depression if I just got off my ass and walked in the woods).

Dealing with severe depression and anxiety is hard enough. That said, I don't really feel compelled to make this about my sensitivity to this kind of suggestion. Carry on, and godspeed Xmann - I wish you the best and that your son gets the help that he clearly needs.
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Smoove_B »

Nah, we cool. As I said, it's by no means the solution, nor would I expect it to be presented as such. I was only suggesting that moving forward after the psychological/medical aspects are addressed, don't be surprised if exercise is recommended, that's all. I offered the observation based on personal (referential) experience with depression, medication and exercise.
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Blackhawk »

I'm not sure what advice to give you, except that I went through similar during my late teens, and my eldest (16) is going through similar now. The tunnel has a light at the end of it, and he's lucky to have parents who are fighting for him.

It's probably good that my son has shown zero sexuality of any sort. I remember how I reacted when my first girlfriend dumped me. The hole I fell into was so deep took six months before I even tried looking back out.
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paulbaxter
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Re: Help for my son

Post by paulbaxter »

This is just an idea for you, but one I really suggest you look into: mindfulness therapy.

Last summer I was having a pretty rough time. My marriage fell apart and things were a bit rough at work as well. Had to deal with finding a new place to live, changes in my social life, all sorts of crap. I happened to be looking through a list of studies looking for human research subjects while at work (the hospital I work for is associated with a large university--always lots of research going on). I saw a study ad for people with anhedonia, aka loss of pleasure. I fit the bill, so they accepted me into the study.

I won't bore you with all the details, but I had 12 weeks of (free) mindfulness therapy. I really had no idea what it was, and was a bit skeptical about it, but damn if it wasn't effective. It was like being able to turn down the volume knob significantly on my negative emotions.

I've heard that it's been shown to be pretty effective for teenagers. I actually tried out one of the simpler exercises on my nine year old son when he was having trouble calming down, and it worked well for him.

Anyhow, all of that to say that I'm sold on the stuff. If you have the opportunity to hook your son up with a mindfulness trained counselor, I'd recommend giving it a shot.

But, in any event, I hope things get better for all of you soon. It's so hard to see you kid struggling. One of my close friends has had a bunch of mental health issues with his daughter, including hospital admissions, and I don't know how they all deal with it.
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RunningMn9
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Re: Help for my son

Post by RunningMn9 »

Smoove_B wrote:Nah, we cool. As I said, it's by no means the solution, nor would I expect it to be presented as such. I was only suggesting that moving forward after the psychological/medical aspects are addressed, don't be surprised if exercise is recommended, that's all. I offered the observation based on personal (referential) experience with depression, medication and exercise.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant. After dealing with the primary issue? 100% agree.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

well, this afternoon and this evening was really good for our family. probably the best we've had in weeks.

when Noah came out of therapy, I simply asked if he felt better. his response was "not really".

however, he came home and helped me do dishes and then cook dinner. we ate dinner around the TV and had a good time laughing at some ridiculous show.

me and my wife totally forgot we had to go over and help him choose classes for next year. but without us asking, he remembered and went through all his choices and let him decide what to register for. he seemed rather interested in a few and completed the registration himself, with our support.

we asked him before he went to bed that he needed to put his phone in the kitchen so he could start getting better sleep and try to reduce his stress. he did that without issue.

we then had a brief conversation about no absences or missed classes and no D's. he wants to go over his buddies house in the afternoon after school, but I kindly reminded him he could.... if he completed all of those requirements. he didn't argue about that either.

so in short, things were near perfect tonight in our home. I don't know if indeed his therapist reached him, in one way or another. but I don't care. today and tonight he was healthy and happy and that's all I care about right now.

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Re: Help for my son

Post by Kraken »

Great! Glad we could solve that for you.
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Lorini »

Keep the consistency. If you have to post the rules on the refrigerator, do so. So happy to see that things are turning around!!!
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

Noah woke up and is in a great mood. Got him to school on time (which has been a challenge recently).

Hoping that whatever him and his therapist discussed made an impression on him. He's going back next Monday to keep this rolling.

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Re: Help for my son

Post by Paingod »

I'm not there and not seeing it first-hand, but sudden drastic shifts in mood send up red flags in my head. Try reviewing the signs of suicide and make sure that nothing fits. On the 'Signs' you can scroll up or down to see different stages or groups, like teens or adults.

Drug use, depression, hopelessness, anxiety - and then sudden happiness. It quirks an eyebrow. I honestly and genuinely want to be very, very wrong and hope I'm just an over-achieving pessimist. Maybe the meds are working?
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

as a healthcare professional myself, that's been my #1 concern from the start.

I wouldn't characterize his moods as "swings', it's just he has really good days and really bad days.

when I spoke to him the other night, I asked him about ever feeling like he wants to hurt himself. He told me that he never has felt like it. We kind of did a "contract", so to speak. He agreed that if he ever had the feelings or thoughts, he'd let me know. I assured him that me and my wife would stop anything, day or not and go to him without question or judgement. I felt really good that he was sincere. I know his therapist told me he would speak about that with him as well and make himself available 24/7, if need be.

trying to look at things as objective as I can, the thing with Noah seems like a perfect storm of emotions. he has always had friends, but never wanted to go out because he is self conscious. he also stated this thing with this girl over the Christmas break as well. so he finally decided to go hang out with friends and realized how cool and fun it can be. additionally, this girl proceeded to break his heart. lastly, as parents we haven't done enough over the years to get him out and about with friends. we felt like we were protecting him by "babying" his emotions. we should have had him be in sports and activities more than he was. he played football two years, but he never interacted with the team outside of practice and games and we didn't push him in that direction.

so you have a kid who's always been someone that likes to keep to himself, which in fact is exactly like my wife and I as well to this day. he didn't really socialize much and never seemed to have interest in girls. so it seems he is growing up and starting to catch up with what most kids start to learn much earlier in life about socializing. add this girl who he is still crazy about and according to him, really treats him ugly at school since they share a couple classes together. and we have what appears to be tons of emotions and hormones driving him crazy.

so our therapists thinks #1. the meds should kick in eventually and help #2. he needs more structure and us to set limits and rules for him. #3. this is hormones and growing up to learn how to be a teen. #4. teenage angst, little things now gets him worked up briefly and then he realizes things aren't as bad.

I'm just thankful we have a really good open relationship he can share with me and my wife.

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gameoverman
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Re: Help for my son

Post by gameoverman »

One idea I had, because it would work with teenage me, is instead of you and your wife trying to get Noah into things that you think are good for him or that he might be interested in, ask him to help you with things you are interested in.

The idea is that if he feels something is being pitched to him as a 'for your own good' thing, he may reject it outright. Many people, teens especially, resent being pressured into doing something for their own good.

On the other hand, if you approach him with "I need you help on this thing I'm doing" then there's no pressure on him. You kill a lot of birds with this one stone. You and he get to interact, you can teach him something, he can feel needed, he can feel useful...all without him getting the uncomfortable feeling of you trying to fix him because you think he's broken.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

that's actually a fantastic idea!

I'll throw that to my wife and see what we could come up with

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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Xmann wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:05 pm so our therapists thinks #1. the meds should kick in eventually and help #2
Yeesh, I wasn't aware that was even a problem; those must be some potent meds indeed (sorry, just trying to inject some levity).

:wink:

Best of luck to you and your family going forward.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

I wouldn't characterize them as potent by any means. It just takes potentially weeks for someone to notice a difference.

He's on citalopram, which tends to work well on individuals with depression and anxiety type disorders.

Thank you for your concern. I'm honestly taking every idea and suggestion to heart.

It's really hard to learn these things when it's your family. Being a nurse, I would recognize the potential medical issues in a minute. It's different when it's not a patient, but your son.

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Re: Help for my son

Post by stessier »

Xmann wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:51 pm I wouldn't characterize them as potent by any means. It just takes potentially weeks for someone to notice a difference.

He's on citalopram, which tends to work well on individuals with depression and anxiety type disorders.

Thank you for your concern. I'm honestly taking every idea and suggestion to heart.

It's really hard to learn these things when it's your family. Being a nurse, I would recognize the potential medical issues in a minute. It's different when it's not a patient, but your son.

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Pretty sure he was making a bathroom joke (#1 and #2). :)
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

umm

move along, nothing to see here

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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Apologies for any confusion Xmann, I was indeed making a facetious remark about the meds "helping with number two", hence the smiley.
Last edited by Anonymous Bosch on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

Anonymous Bosch wrote:Apologies for any confusion Xmann, but I was just making a facetious remark about the meds "helping with number two", hence the smiley.
Image

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Re: Help for my son

Post by rshetts2 »

Sorry to hear about your issues and I wish you the best on helping your son out.

Now, I can not give you any advice and I apologise if humor on the subject is too soon but I thought I would leave you with some advice from Ash (Bruce Campbell)

Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Grifman »

I have no advice but I wish your family the best.
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Holman »

Xmann wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:22 pm Noah woke up and is in a great mood. Got him to school on time (which has been a challenge recently).

Hoping that whatever him and his therapist discussed made an impression on him. He's going back next Monday to keep this rolling.

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Do you get the sense that he clicked with the therapist? Therapy is a long road, but a good start to the relationship can be energizing.

Your account of things going well after some good relaxed family time together bodes well too.

It sounds to me like there's hope here and that it lies in connection.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

he's seen this therapist off and on since last summer when he had some social anxiety.

he likes the guy a lot and really opens up to him. I definitely think it can only be a positive. we are having him see the therapist weekly for the foreseeable future.

I get the sense that he might be starting to move on just a bit from his heartache. He's dropped some hints to me since yesterday that this might be happening. he actually met his buddies at our local rec center to shoot some hoops this afternoon and hang out. according to my son, this is a hot hangout for the kids. he also mentioned they met up with some girls he knows from school too.

I think confidence is huge for him and that's why he's really been hit hard from this girl. My son has always been a shy and reserved kid who is very self conscious about his looks (which literally would surprise anyone who knows him because he's a really good looking kind). And now that he's confident to go out and hang with new people, it's put some pressure on him that he's learning how to deal with. he's learning social behaviors most kids started learning a couple years ago.

all in all, the past 24 hours has been really nice. he hasn't went off to his room after school with his lights out. he's eaten dinner with us 2 nights in a row and watched TV for a couple hours afterwards. this is the Noah we know and love so dearly.

it also seems that he's comfortable sharing mostly everything with me. he has volunteered what's happening at school and with his friends, including telling me they met some girls they know at the rec this afternoon.

he even asked tonight if I would take him and some buddies to his schools basketball game Friday, just as long as I don't sit with them :)

I made it very clear 2 days ago that I'll always have his back and will drop on a dime whatever I'm doing if he needs me. as tough as it was for me (because of my own issues of losing my dad at a young age), it was important for both of us.

when my wife was lying in bed talking to him the other night, he told my wife "we'll get through this mom". I'm a really proud, lucky, and thankful dad.

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Re: Help for my son

Post by Scuzz »

It's really nice that things seem to be looking up. With my kids I always looked at these type things in a humorous way, but it is hard to do with someone else's kid. Without knowing the kid you can't really judge just how much of it is drama and how much of it is trauma, if you will.

Teenagers just go thru so much that effects their daily view of themselves and the world. And it is really hard for most parents to relate their feelings to the kid in a meaningful, accepted way to the kid. It sounds like you have a relationship where you can do that. Good for you guys.
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Pyperkub »

Glad to hear things are picking up. When I read the first post a couple of days ago, I didn't have much of an idea what to write, but as I've mulled it over a bit, one of the things which came to me (about the initial post, not the follow ups), was that a non-digital building of something or caring/responsibility thing could be useful.

e.g. building a tree house (together) in the yard with lumber, etc. or maybe getting a dog that he could be responsible for (and could provide support). essentially, things that could give him pride and a sense of accomplishment and the feeling of being relevant.

After reading later, and seeing Wil Wheaton's latest candid post on depression, it rung a bell too:
I was just wondering, how did you feel when your doctor suggested going on anti-depressants? My therapist of several months suggested it to me today and while logically I know it’s probably a good idea, I can’t help but feel like I’m broken, you know? Like, I’m worse than I thought I was. Did you feel like this or know anyone who felt something similar?

My answer:

First of all, Depression Lies. It tells you that you’re weak and unworthy and terrible and that you’re never going to be able to get out from under it.

Depression lies like that because it wants to protect itself and keep on controlling your life.

Depression is a dick, and I want to encourage you to listen to your therapist and let him or her help you.

Now I want you to imagine that you have a fever, and your whole body hurts, and you’ve been coughing up all sorts of awful gunk for days. You’re miserable, so you go to the doctor...

...Mental illness is exactly the same as a physical illness. Your body has something that’s out of whack – in our case, it’s how our brains handle neurochemicals and stuff – and there’s medication that can help us help ourselves feel better.

You’re not broken, and you’re not weak, and if you’re now thinking that you’re worse than you thought you were? Well, that’s really awesome, because it means that you recognize that your brain needs some help to get healthy, and your doctor is there to help you do that.

It takes courage to take the chance on medication, and the first one you try may not work, because brains are all different and incredibly complicated, but something will work, and you will feel better, and you will be so glad that you took the step to take care of yourself.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

thank you for your concern

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Re: Help for my son

Post by Moliere »

Joe Rogan Experience #1077 - Johann Hari
Johann Hari is a writer and journalist. He has written for a number of publications including The Independent (London) and The Huffington Post and has written books on the topic of the war on drugs, the monarchy, and depression, in an accessible and non-technical style. His new book "Lost Connections" is available now.
An interesting discussion about depression and addiction.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

thank you, I will look at that this weekend.

I do have an update I'll share when I get a chance. My son is good, actually really good, but we had a pretty serious scare to get to where we are now.

thank you for thinking of my family

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Re: Help for my son

Post by KKBlue »

Thank you for keeping us in the loop. Super happy things are working out, wonderful to read about your good parenting (even to us w our opinions and advice).
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

***UPDATE***

Really good news to update and report about our son and family.

Turns out my son has/had been self medicating with weed. The truth is that I haven't been a good father the past year. Not that I was negligent, but I have set no boundaries or put any consequences in place for my son. He's been such a good kid his whole life and never gotten in trouble that I underestimated the parenting he needed.

His buddies were pretty much smoking nonstop. I turned a blind eye and didn't care as long as he wasn't in trouble and appeared happy. I was willing to let him do about anything if it prevented us from having to make an emergency trip to the hospital for suicidal talk.

His Celexa is working and doing really well. He's been seeing a therapist regularly. However, what essentially turned this around was a visit with his guidance counselor at school. His grades have been bad as well, so she referred us to the school districts resource center for kids struggling with school and drug use.

We met with the director at the resource center and it was life changing. This lady has been doing this for 30 years and knows what she's doing. Before we told her much about our son and spoke with him, she told us exactly the problem and the steps needed to get him back on track. She described our son in detail, like a book. "I bet he's self medicating, struggling in school even, battling depression, questionable friends, anxiety, etc etc etc".

I realize that could be a description of any 15 year old boy, but I'm telling you it was that light bulb moment as parents. Our son's standardized testing scores has him in the top 20 percentile, so it's not an issue of intelligence. We didn't necessarily realize this and we actually were concerned he had a learning disability. Turns out that doesn't seem the case.

Fast forward about 6 weeks ago and our son had his "light bulb" moment for himself. We had been restricting him from going to these other kids home and closely monitoring them at our home. He realized these kids were not his friends and he was turning into them, which is basically stoners with no desire to do anything but smoke and sleep.

Our son has since not seen these kids and has stopped smoking weed. My wife and I are learning to be parents and not buddies with him. He's having to double time on school in an effort to not fail any classes, but he's making it.

We are all in therapy and addressing our personal issues. I have abandonment issues from my dad unexpectedly dying when I was in my 20's. That seems to be why I wasn't being the dad I should have.

Noah is looking for a summer job since school will be out in another month. He no longer feels like self medicating and says that weed took all his desire to functions away. He feels like his old self again. He is much less defiant, has little anxiety, doing school work, and just a generally happy person again. He's made friends with a couple different kids who are more his type as well.

We are keeping a close eye on him and giving him consequences for his actions. He's starting to see that I'm changing as a dad now and those days of me letting him get away with what he wanted are getting behind us. I'm not niave to think this is all perfect, but right now we have a good plan in place.



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Lorini
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Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: Help for my son

Post by Lorini »

SO AWESOME!!! Glad to hear it!!!
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Holman
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Holman »

Glad to hear the news is good!
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em2nought
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Re: Help for my son

Post by em2nought »

My parents moved seven times before I entered High School, and i went to nine different schools. I was really shy, and had a minor speech impediment. My brothers and sisters were already grown up as I was born ten years after them. I never made a bunch of friends, usually one or two good ones. Some of the schools I attended I had none. During High School my dad lined up neighbors for me to mow grass for, and he'd come along and do the weed eating and brooming off(yeah back then no blowers). I think doing that work with him was really good for me. I bonded with him, and I learned the value/rewards of hard work. If you can find time to spend more time with your son in some manner like that it would probably be a good thing. Man, I miss my dad.
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Xmann
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Re: Help for my son

Post by Xmann »

good story, really good.

we have spent more time together the past 6 weeks than we did the prior 6 months. really good quality time.

during that time, my son gave up all interest in sports, which was bonding time for us. it bothered me but I couldn't do a thing about it.

however, we have watched the start of the baseball season, end of the NBA season, and the NHL playoffs. first sports we've watched since November.

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