30 day bread and sugar fast

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Jeff V
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Jeff V »

ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:34 am We're pretty similar, but perhaps not quite as strict. Young kids don't like bitter as much, so we try to watch especially bitter things with them and will give them an alternative. Also, if they try something and really don't like it, we don't force the issue. That has the chance of being abused by the kids, but since they rarely actually use this as an excuse to not eat something, we're not in that danger zone yet.
Oddly enough, one vegetable he DOES eat is something I call "bitter leaves" (and *I* refuse to eat it). They are leaves of a horseradish plant which my wife buys at the Filipino store. We no longer live close to that store so don't have them as often. We do have better luck getting veggies into him with soup, but he likes Filipino soups and not those I make. On a good week, my wife is around at dinner time twice.

Our daughter so far is willing to try anything and does eat some veggies. I would prefer to take a more hard line stance with them by my wife is the sort to prepare 4-5 different things in the course of a night until she finds something they will eat. I keep telling her let them starve and they will eat anything. Having grown up in a situation where starving was unavoidable, though, she's not willing to do that.

Also, half the time (and more so when it's just me and the kids) I just have salad and that's something that interests neither kid (or any kid I have ever known).
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Jeff V wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:34 pmAlso, half the time (and more so when it's just me and the kids) I just have salad and that's something that interests neither kid (or any kid I have ever known).
My 3-year old twins have a small salad with meals most nights. :P
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:39 pm
Jeff V wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:34 pmAlso, half the time (and more so when it's just me and the kids) I just have salad and that's something that interests neither kid (or any kid I have ever known).
My 3-year old twins have a small salad with meals most nights. :P
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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When the kids were little, I allowed sauces on vegetables, and I allowed pickiness and refusals, buying the ones I knew they liked. Kids' tastebuds don't work the same as adults, and something that tastes decent to us may be horribly strong or bitter to them. Kids aren't necessarily pickier, their food just tastes differently than ours does. As they got older, the less loved ones made their way back into their diet.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:34 am

I'm in agreement with (I think it was) Rumpy about using carbonated, non-sweetened beverages if you absolutely must have some flavor in your water (and aren't worrying about needing the caffeine). The first couple of times of tasting the flavoring without the sugar was definitely weird (especially since I was still a pop drinker back then), but I got used to it quickly enough. I don't really drink it today, but my wife will occasionally pick up a 12-pack of LaCroix.
Yep, for me sparkling water was a perfect alternative. I get the flavour I want with no additives or sweeteners. Some brands are better than others and have better flavour profiles, but I find I don't miss soft drinks at all now. I still occasionally will drink some, but my preferences is for sparkling water. Desani Black Cherry tasted almost exactly like Dr Pepper, I was amazed. Though I'm not sure if that one had any sweetners. Discovered the LaCroix Mango this past summer and that was delicious!
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Rumpy wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:13 pm Desani Black Cherry tasted almost exactly like Dr Pepper, I was amazed. Though I'm not sure if that one had any sweetners. Discovered the LaCroix Mango this past summer and that was delicious!
This is factually incorrect. All sparkling water tastes like diluted battery acid. :tjg:
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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That's just a bias. Not all of them are like that, and I've tried a lot.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Zarathud wrote:I always patted myself on the back for eating bananas over donuts. Turns out the donuts had fewer carbs.
While this might be *technically* true (depending on the donut), the banana is still vastly more healthy than the donut. So you should have patted yourself on the back. :)

As an example, a typical banana is about 90 calories and 23g of carbs. A Dunkin’ Donuts Boston Creme donut runs you 300 calories, saddles you with 360mg of sodium (bananas are negligible), and 37g of carbs. Oh, and the 16g of fat (bananas are fat free).

Obviously, this varies with the type of donut, but as a rule, bananas are vastly superior to donuts from a nutritional standpoint.

Unless you were eating bushels of bananas a day. People aren’t getting fat because they eat bananas. ;)

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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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RunningMn9 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:10 am Unless you were eating bushels of bananas a day. People aren’t getting fat because they eat bananas. ;)
Once upon a time, Wife went to a Weight Watchers meeting. Before it started the women there were chatting about diet choices, and someone was going on about carrots being the worst vegetable for some reason...lots of sugar, or something. The WW lady overheard this and said "Nobody's here because they eat too many carrots."
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Kraken wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:32 am Once upon a time, Wife went to a Weight Watchers meeting. Before it started the women there were chatting about diet choices, and someone was going on about carrots being the worst vegetable for some reason...lots of sugar, or something. The WW lady overheard this and said "Nobody's here because they eat too many carrots."
My wife saw something like that too. Someone was mystified that there could be a zero point food. For people that need to lose a lot of weight, generally the problem isn't that they are eating too many raw fruits and vegetables. :)

I think we've talked about it here before, but a while back I was reading a number of articles about the differences between eating natural sugars, versus something like HFCS (whose supporters argue that it's the same thing). Aside from the obvious issues with just how much HFCS is in stuff, natural sugars generally require your body to work to get them broken down into the base components. So even though ultimately they have nearly the same components (HFCS also has saccharins or something as well that isn't in fructose), your body doesn't burn any energy breaking down HFCS. Or something like that.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Kraken »

I avoid HFCS like poison, even though I know that the science doesn't support that. Can't banish it completely -- I like ketchup on my fries, for instance, and restaurants aren't putting out the HFCS-free stuff -- but when I must buy processed foods, I always check for it. I don't believe that the science is entirely settled, even though the current consensus basically says that sugar is sugar.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Yeah, amount of sugar isn't always as important as the context in which the sugar occurs. Fruit ties sugar to fiber, which takes both time and energy to digest, unlike the sugar in drinks/donuts/juice.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Kraken wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:41 am the current consensus basically says that sugar is sugar.
Well, at least the consensus among scientists employed by Cargill. ;)

As an example, the fructose in fruit has a low glycemic index, which isn't true of table sugar or HFCS.
Last edited by RunningMn9 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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I'll leave it to the eggheads in the lab to argue over how we biologically process HFCS. All I know is that it's added to everything (processed foods in particular) and the harm likely comes from not realizing that you're ingesting so much added sugar. The internets suggest the average American is consuming ~60lbs of additional sugar per year, above and beyond what the dietary recommendations are. The average. That's insane.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Smoove_B wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:29 pm The internets suggest the average American is consuming ~60lbs of additional sugar per year, above and beyond what the dietary recommendations are. The average. That's insane.
I had heard that it's significantly higher than that. One other tidbit on fructose (not HFCS) is that it's significantly sweeter than table sugar or HFCS, so you need a lot less to get the same sweetness levels.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Moliere »

Week 1 results:
100% success on the no bread.
Around 80% success on the no sugar. It's easy to avoid things like ice cream, soda, and candy. I still get some sugar as an ingredient in things like yogurt, dried cranberries, and granola.
7 pounds lost in the first week. That's the easy weight to lose. The real test will be the next 15-20 pounds.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Moliere wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:12 amI still get some sugar as an ingredient in things like yogurt, dried cranberries, and granola.
7 pounds lost in the first week. That's the easy weight to lose. The real test will be the next 15-20 pounds.
Congrats on the loss! Gotta be careful with fast losses, though. If you slip, your body will fight to regain it.

As for added sugar in yogurt, cranberries, and granola - I'm just not. I'm going with fresh blueberries over dried cranberries, plain greek yogurt (sugar-free), and no granola (I eat "old fashioned" oatmeal).

My wife fell of the carb wagon hard over the weekend. I bought her a bottle of win for Valentines Day and she had a couple glasses on Saturday afternoon to get happy while the kids were away. A while later she got up to do something and then shortly I heard her saying "I need help" and turned around from my desk to find her collapsed on the floor, clutching her stomach and in agony. She described something that sounded like extreme gas or heartburn, like her gallbladder attack before she had it removed. I offered to take her to the hospital but she declined. I played 20 questions - Thirsty? No. Hungry? Maybe. Where does it hurt? Not the appendix. Through her pain-haze we decided to try having her eat some dry toast and see if it absorbed whatever was going wrong in her stomach. It did. 4 pieces of toast later, she was feeling much better and have a massive craving for carbs, so we topped her dinner off with spaghetti and finally some vegan sushi. She believes that having had nothing but good, clean food for a couple weeks and not much to eat before drinking left her stomach completely unable to cope with having something toxic dumped into it. I guess I won't buy her anymore wine. :doh:
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Moliere »

Paingod wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:35 am Gotta be careful with fast losses, though. If you slip, your body will fight to regain it.

As for added sugar in yogurt, cranberries, and granola - I'm just not. I'm going with fresh blueberries over dried cranberries, plain greek yogurt (sugar-free), and no granola (I eat "old fashioned" oatmeal).
It's only a bread and refined sugar fast. I still eat a normal diet in moderation. I needed a diet that I could maintain without a monumental lifestyle change.

I have always found Greek yogurt disgusting. I buy the dried cranberries out of consideration for shelf life and convenience. I can keep them in my desk at work to splash a few on my morning oatmeal. The granola is only a 2-3 times a week mix-in for my yogurt. It's not something I eat bowls of every day.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Moliere wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:12 am 7 pounds lost in the first week. That's the easy weight to lose. The real test will be the next 15-20 pounds.
That's an excellent first week!

Every time I commit to losing weight, it helps that being Large McHuge results in a pretty good first week (although I don't know if I've ever lost 7 pounds in one shot like that).

I'm currently on a quest to delargen myself, and I'm about five weeks in (although I didn't begin in earnest until Week 2). I made some changes which have seemed effective:
1) Time Restricted Eating. Everything I eat is between 8 AM and 7 PM, which gives the body 13+ hours to enter fasting mode and to take care of business (allegedly good for you).
2) As much as is humanly possible, only eat whole foods. This restriction ended up almost completely removing processed carbs from my diet (no bread, pasta, or white rice). I occasionally make whole grain brown rice or quinoa but that's no more than one night a week. And I almost entirely cut red meat out of the equation.

I wanted to find a way that could just change how and what I eat, but didn't involve micromanaging points or calories, our writing down every little thing that I eat. I'm very much a creature of routine, so my days are pretty identical:

a) Breakfast: Two eggs scrambled with sauteed mushrooms and spinach. Side of berries (strawberries, blueberries and either blackberries or raspberries).

b) Snack: Two pieces of fruit (usually a banana paired with either some citrus or a honeycrisp apple).

c) Lunch: Normally a salad I make at home that features: baby spinach, cucumbers, campari tomatoes, shredded carrots, blueberries, avocado, legumes, roasted beets, mushrooms, red onion, and if I have any leftover chicken, I will usually cut a small amount of that in there as well. It's incredibly filling. Either olive oil and a golden balsamic vinegar dressing or a light peppercorn and parmesan dressing (one of my few remaining processed foods) to top it off. Altogether, it's a pretty filling salad.

d) Snack: An icelandic skyr-type yogurt (so friggin' good) and a small handful of nuts (almonds, walnuts, pistachios).

e) Dinner: Some form of chicken and some form of vegetables. Once a week I still make a beef stir-fry, which is the only red meat I still have, and that's the only time I make the brown rice or quinoa.

This week I am trading out the lunch salad for a small bowl of homemade chicken chili, as the grind of making those salads from scratch can wear on you (it takes at least 30 minutes of prep the night before). So this week I'm taking a break and made up a large batch of relatively healthy chili (lean ground chicken, beer, red kidney beans, green/red/orange bell peppers, onion, frozen corn, minced carrots, diced tomatoes, habaneros, seasonings).

Oh, and the only liquid I've had has either been water (a gallon+ per day) or black coffee. Nothing else.

So far the results have been good:

Week 1: -2.1 lbs (wasn't really trying and didn't start the whole foods thing yet)
Week 2: -6.3 lbs (first week of militant discipline)
Week 3: -3.5 lbs
Week 4: -3.3 lbs
Week 5: -2.9 lbs

So we're at -18.1 lbs, we're at a point where good habits have been formed (we've gone out for family dinners, and it's been easy to look for something on the healthier side, without being ridiculous), there haven't been any cravings, and I am almost never hungry. In fact I cannot remember the last time I was hungry. I eat snacks based on the time between meals, not when I'm hungry, so it's not like I'm murdering people between meals. Moreso than any other time I've tried, it's been easy to stick to, as long as you don't hate the prep work.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm not on a technical fast, but I have made a militant effort to try and be cognizant of carbs and sugar over the last week, particularly breads, pasta and potatoes. I'm not measuring, but I'm trying to keep carbs at or below 20g per day. Above and beyond completely avoiding processed foods (i.e. the center of the supermarket) it hasn't been too difficult. As of this morning I'm also down 7lbs, which I know isn't unusual and like Moliere I'm curious to see if the loss will continue. I've certainly concluded over the last week that I'm addicted to carbs and as the weekend was looming last week, it was getting a bit dicey. So much of the addiction (I think) comes back to being lazy (bulking up meals with carbs), so it's definitely a change in not only habit but mindset.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Smoove_B wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:12 pm As of this morning I'm also down 7lbs, which I know isn't unusual and like Moliere I'm curious to see if the loss will continue.
For a while, maintaining 3 lbs per week shouldn't be too hard. When you get to about 20 lbs, the body starts to fight back though, and then it gets a little bit harder. The good news (I guess) is that we've been mistreating our bodies for so long, that losing weight by making sensible changes is pretty easy to get going. It's way harder for already healthy people to drop 7 pounds in a week. ;)

At at the 20 lb mark, you can always shock your body back into compliance with an exercise regimen by heading to the Pain Dome(tm). I'm a few weeks out from building a Slightly Uncomfortable Dome(tm) here, so hopefully that will coincide with having to break through the first plateau.
And in banks across the world
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And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
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The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Moliere »

I like the idea of Time Restricted Eating. For the most part I do that without thinking about it, but it will be good to consciously keep that in mind. My day starts a little earlier because of my work schedule so I am usually eating my oatmeal before 7:30am.

RM9, I did want to ask you about the order of your meals. Generally I eat my heavier meals for lunch and try to eat the salads at dinner. The idea being that the digestion will be easier while I sleep. Eating the heavier meal during lunch means I have all day to be moving around and digesting it.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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I really try not to eat after 20:00 but I largely fail. I often don't settle in at home until after then and then eat right before bed, or heaven forbid I try to go to bed without an early dinner but rather "something to hold me over" and the next thing I know I"m getting ready for bed at 22:00 with chips and salsa or a whole pack of cookies or some other ridiculous huge amount of junk food. Time spent at home before going to bed after work is all too brief.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Moliere wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:21 pm I like the idea of Time Restricted Eating. For the most part I do that without thinking about it, but it will be good to consciously keep that in mind. My day starts a little earlier because of my work schedule so I am usually eating my oatmeal before 7:30am.

RM9, I did want to ask you about the order of your meals. Generally I eat my heavier meals for lunch and try to eat the salads at dinner. The idea being that the digestion will be easier while I sleep. Eating the heavier meal during lunch means I have all day to be moving around and digesting it.
I think that your thoughts here do represent the traditional thinking (i.e. that breakfast and lunch should be the bulk of your food intake). I don't eat particularly big dinners anymore (since I'm not particularly hungry or craving anything, I don't really have any incentive to load up on anything). But also, with dinner out of the way by 6 or 6:30 pm, I have plenty of time to digest stuff before heading to be around 11 pm.

I get up at 5:30 AM and am usually at the office by 7:15 or 7:30. Even so I still wait until 8:30 or so before I have a cup of coffee and my breakfast (which is a downside when you've made the eggs at 6:30 ;)). It's gross, but it's over quickly, and the primary reason for the berry-filled chaser is to remove the memory of not-hot eggs from my tastebuds (I'm not going to be the office asshole that microwaves goddamn eggs every morning). :)

Since I can't reasonably conclude dinner before 6 or 630, I had to start the eating later in the morning. The real advantage for me is the hard stop at 7 pm. I used to have a tendency to snack at night, and that has stopped completely because of this. It was just a bad habit, but this strategy helped me break it. I will occasionally have a very small bowl of ice cream for dessert, but only if I can fit it in under the time restraint. Once it hits 7 pm, it's off the table.

Also, the lunch salad that I eat is probably the heavier meal. ;)
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Smoove_B »

RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:19 pm At at the 20 lb mark, you can always shock your body back into compliance with an exercise regimen by heading to the Pain Dome(tm).
If I can drop 20lbs by avoiding carbs and I hit a plateau, I'll just try being Naked and Afraid in my back yard during the summer. Last time I visited the Pain Dome I gained 15+lbs in bulk. While I don't want to diminish the role exercise plays in getting healthy, I would likely need to be shackled to the Wheel of Pain for a year to work off my stored calories.
I did want to ask you about the order of your meals. Generally I eat my heavier meals for lunch and try to eat the salads at dinner. The idea being that the digestion will be easier while I sleep. Eating the heavier meal during lunch means I have all day to be moving around and digesting it.
I think it's different for everyone and if you experiment you'll find what works best. I'm the least hungry at lunch and I don't really do a crazy breakfast. I think my biological clock is wired weird so I'm most hungry between 3pm and 11pm at night. I've eaten dinner at 6pm and been starving at 10 or 11pm. Granted, that might change with this new mentality, but I'd probably only explore switching up the timing if something wasn't working (hunger, weight loss, etc...)
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by LordMortis »

Can you hardboil your eggs? Cold hard boiled eggs are good.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:31 pm Can you hardboil your eggs? Cold hard boiled eggs are good.
I certainly could. And that's probably a good idea. I share a little pod at work with a guy that is horrified daily that I'm willing to do this to myself every morning. And this is a guy that I watched open a can of Campbell's Bean with Bacon condensed soup, and eat it raw. :) (he's also young and reasonably fit)
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Isgrimnur »

Don’t forget to add the bananas.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:35 pm Don’t forget to add the bananas.
Every day at 1030 AM. I love bananas. :)
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Isgrimnur »

Try adding them to the eggs.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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LordMortis
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by LordMortis »

RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:34 pm
LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:31 pm Can you hardboil your eggs? Cold hard boiled eggs are good.
I certainly could. And that's probably a good idea. I share a little pod at work with a guy that is horrified daily that I'm willing to do this to myself every morning. And this is a guy that I watched open a can of Campbell's Bean with Bacon condensed soup, and eat it raw. :) (he's also young and reasonably fit)
Calorie for calorie, I find eggs to be some of the most satisfying food, as long as you don't cook them in oil, or heaven forbid bacon grease... No matter how much better eggs taste when cooked in lard....

If you think of 2000 calorie diet, that would mean water and 20 large eggs a day, vs say 3 glasses of soda and four slices of pizza or all of celery you could possibly hold down.
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RunningMn9
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by RunningMn9 »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:44 pmIf you think of 2000 calorie diet, that would mean water and 20 large eggs a day, vs say 3 glasses of soda and four slices of pizza or all of celery you could possibly hold down.
I don't think that I would ever think of a 2000 calorie diet these ways. :)
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LordMortis
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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When I diet, that is often exactly how I look at things. I break them out into their portions with estimated calorie counts. When I see how many chips 150 calories buys me, I tend not to eat chip because I think OMG, if a 13 of those, that would be my food for the day.

Pizza, especially the pizza I like, becomes a rare treat (which I then eat for three days off one 2200 calorie pizza) and soda goes out the window.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Jeff V »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:44 pm
Calorie for calorie, I find eggs to be some of the most satisfying food, as long as you don't cook them in oil, or heaven forbid bacon grease...
That would be a waste of bacon grease. You use bacon grease as a base for the sausage gravy that go on the biscuits you serve with the eggs.
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LordMortis
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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Before my heart surgery I would make three strips of bacon before pan frying just about anything. everything tasted better in lard of the pig than it did fried any other way. Especially potatoes... potatoes and toast.... potatoes, toast, and bagels... potatoes, toast, bagels, and eggs... Man I miss frying breakfast at home. Oatmeal starts my day, but my old breakfast made starting the day a pleasure.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Jeff V »

Have you ever tried making pancakes in bacon grease? It adds a nice crisp to the edges in addition to the added deliciousness.
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LordMortis
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

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yes. and screw you!
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Moliere »

Does frying bacon in bacon grease bring bacon to an 11?
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by Kraken »

LordMortis wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:34 pm When I diet, that is often exactly how I look at things. I break them out into their portions with estimated calorie counts. When I see how many chips 150 calories buys me, I tend not to eat chip because I think OMG, if a 13 of those, that would be my food for the day.
I look at the serving size and eat half of that. If I'm still hungry 15 minutes later, I eat the other half. Half a serving is often enough to take the edge off.

And I like bacon grease on baked potatoes instead of butter or sour cream.
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Re: 30 day bread and sugar fast

Post by RunningMn9 »

Am I the only one not flavoring everything with bacon grease?! :)

LM, what I meant was that I would certainly consider the number of calories in an egg, to determine whether or not to eat in the context of a budget of 2000 calories. I just wouldn't consider what it would be like if I consumed my *entire* budget on hard-boiled eggs. :)
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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