How putrid is San Francisco?

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How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Worse than the slums of Brazil, Kenya, or India, according to a U.C. Berkeley infectious disease expert.

Diseased Streets:
NBCBayArea.com wrote:How dirty is San Francisco? An NBC Bay Area Investigation reveals a dangerous mix of drug needles, garbage, and feces throughout downtown San Francisco. The Investigative Unit surveyed 153 blocks of the city – the more than 20-mile stretch includes popular tourist spots like Union Square and major hotel chains. The area – bordered by Van Ness Avenue, Market Street, Post Street and Grant Avenue – is also home to City Hall, schools, playgrounds, and a police station.

As the Investigative Unit photographed nearly a dozen hypodermic needles scattered across one block, a group of preschool students happened to walk by on their way to an afternoon field trip to citiy hall.

“We see poop, we see pee, we see needles, and we see trash,” said teacher Adelita Orellana. “Sometimes they ask what is it, and that’s a conversation that’s a little difficult to have with a 2-year old, but we just let them know that those things are full of germs, that they are dangerous, and they should never be touched.”

In light of the dangerous conditions, part of Orellana’s responsibilities now include teaching young children how to avoid the contamination.

“The floor is dirty,” said A’Nylah Reed, a 3-year-old student at the preschool, who irately explained having to navigate dirty conditions on her walks to school.

“There is poop in there,” she exclaimed. “That makes me angry.”

Kim Davenport, A’nyla’s mother, often walks her daughter to the Compass preschool on Leavenworth Street in San Francisco. She said she often has to pull her daughter out of the way in order to keep her from stepping on needles and human waste. “I just had to do that this morning!”

The Investigate Unit spent three days assessing conditions on the streets of downtown San Francisco and discovered trash on each of the 153 blocks surveyed. While some streets were littered with items as small as a candy wrapper, the vast majority of trash found included large heaps of garbage, food, and discarded junk. The investigation also found 100 drug needles and more than 300 piles of feces throughout downtown.

Dried Feces can Lead to Airborne Viruses

“If you do get stuck with these disposed needles you can get HIV, Hepatitis C, Hepatitis B, and a variety of other viral diseases,” said Dr. Lee Riley, an infectious disease expert at University of California, Berkeley. He warned that once fecal matter dries, it can become airborne, releasing potentially dangerous viruses, such as the rotavirus. “If you happen to inhale that, it can also go into your intestine,” he said. The results can prove fatal, especially in children.

Riley has researched conditions across the poorest slums of the world. His book titled, “Slum Health,” examines health problems that are created by extreme poverty.

San Francisco Compared to Some of the Dirtiest Slums in the World

Based on the findings of the Investigative Unit survey, Riley believes parts of the city may be even dirtier than slums in some developing countries.

“The contamination is … much greater than communities in Brazil or Kenya or India,” he said. He notes that in those countries, slum dwellings are often long-term homes for families and so there is an attempt to make the surroundings more livable. Homeless communities in San Francisco, however, are often kicked out from one part of town and forced to relocate to another. The result is extreme contamination, according to Riley.
It's rruly appalling how repulsive San Francisco -- which used to be a major tourist destination -- has become in recent years.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Daehawk »

That is gross. City should hire the homeless to clean it up. Win Win.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Jeff V »

tl;dr punchline:
Dried Feces can Lead to Airborne Viruses
Apparently the point is we have our very own shithole here in the US. I wonder if we can deport hippies to Nigeria?
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Scuzz »

I don't know if things have changed, I don't think they have, but it was common for the homeless to sit on the sidewalks near SF City hall, and crap in the bushes. My sister worked in SF for years and we would go into town for plays and ball games. There are, mostly near the government district but also in other areas, some pretty nasty spots.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Jeff V wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:52 pm tl;dr punchline:
Dried Feces can Lead to Airborne Viruses
Apparently the point is we have our very own shithole here in the US. I wonder if we can deport hippies to Nigeria?
Of course, in the case of San Francisco, it's a literal shithole. Suffice to say, it's bad enough to warrant an Interactive Map o' Crap.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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And this should surprise exactly no one.


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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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DD* wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:31 pm And this should surprise exactly no one.
Perhaps, but that's hardly any excuse for one of the wealthiest cities in the nation being such a foul and noxious slum.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

I was in downtown SF in January for a conference and didn’t notice it being particularly slummish, but I did hear stories from friends who saw some serious sketchiness (needle use, dude masturbating on the street, etc).
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by YellowKing »

I was there several years ago for a VMWare conference, and after the conference we were invited to a vendor-held party a few (we thought) blocks from the Moscone Center. It didn't look that far, so we decided to just walk down there.

As we progressed we realized it was a little farther than we thought, so we took a few side streets to save some time. We finally get to the building as the sun was setting. It was one of those gentrified old buildings that had been turned into an upscale bar/restaurant. We're talking to one of the vendors and in casual conversation he asked if we had taken a cab over or had a rental car. We told him "Oh no, we just walked."

"YOU WHAT?!!!!!"'Before we know it he's calling associates over, all of them looking at us as if we either the bravest or stupidest people on earth.

Apparently we had casually strolled through a REALLY bad part of town at dusk, dressed to the nines, carrying phones and laptops, and had somehow avoided being mugged or murdered. :lol:

Needless to say we took a cab back to the hotel.

I will say though, that I loved SF while I was there. I didn't notice it being particularly skeezier than any other big city I've been in, though I did mostly stay in the business/financial districts.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Jeff V »

I've been there a handful of times and generally had a decent time. Only stayed in the city twice though, once near the airport and another time at a fancy downtown hotel I could probably never afford courtesy of Simon and Schuster for an Eve Online press junket.

If I ever get back to that shit hole I'd like to hit up The Stinking Rose if it's still there. Love that place.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Smoove_B »

So maybe - just maybe - it's not NJ that you've been smelling all this time?
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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DD* wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:31 pm And this should surprise exactly no one.


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Why is that? Is it some weird bias against SF, or do you think American cities are really that dirty? I'm surprised and I find it rather incredible that SF is one of the dirtiest places on earth. A 50ft garbage pile just collapsed in Mozambique killing 17 people who lived around it.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Smoove_B wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:49 pm So maybe - just maybe - it's not NJ that you've been smelling all this time?
Granted, I'd be surprised if New Jersey could match the pure feculence of San Francisco. But alas, that doesn't make the Jersey Stink enjoyable.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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San Francisco Man Has Spent 4 Years and $1 Million Trying to Get Approval to Turn His Own Laundromat Into an Apartment Building
The city is in the midst of a housing affordability crisis, with an average one-bedroom apartment going for $3,400 a month. So you might think Tillman's project would sail through the permitting process. Instead, the city's labyrinthine process of reviews, regulations, and appeals has dragged on for four years. The project has cost the self-described "accidental developer" nearly $1 million so far, and he hasn't even broken ground yet.
...
In March 2014, when Tillman first submitted his plans to the San Francisco Planning Department, the initial reaction was positive. Officials were "very much in favor of developing site," Tillman says.

The real opposition came from some of the neighbors. A community meeting in January 2016 served as something of a flashpoint.

At the meeting, one woman fretted that the tall building would violate the privacy of a nearby public school. Another argued that the project needed to be 100 percent affordable housing. Two representatives from local Latino Cultural District Calle 24 said that even a 100 percent affordable housing project was out of the question, given the proposed height of the development.

When Tillman said he saw his project as necessary so people like his daughter could afford to come back and live in the city, one particularly motivated activist said she wished his daughter was killed in a terrorist attack.

Nevertheless, Tillman persisted, working with the Planning Department to change the design of his development where necessary and spending tens of thousands more on various impact studies. That includes $6,500 on a wind study, $5,000 on a shadow study, and $189,000 in city fees by the end of 2017.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

300 piles of human feces? That's crazy. Needles and dogshit, yeah, ok. But people are just shitting on the streets?
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:00 pm dude masturbating on the street, etc).
That was just Louis CK working on his next stand-up routine.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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IT's only that bad after the Dodgers come to SF to play ball. The rain washes the stench\trash away until next time.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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naednek wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:53 pm IT's only that bad after the Dodgers come to SF to play ball. The rain washes the stench\trash away until next time.
:)

I figured they just hosed it out into the bay.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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I'm curious to read what Kasey Chang makes of all this, as I believe he's one of our resident San Franciscans (and also employed in a tourist business there, IIRC).
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Being a counter culture hub is a bunch of crap (literally).
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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It's all about real estate prices and the consequent homelessness.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Pyperkub wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:11 am It's all about real estate prices and the consequent homelessness.
And the willingness of the city to put up with it.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Scuzz wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:27 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:11 am It's all about real estate prices and the consequent homelessness.
And the willingness of the city to put up with it.
Every time they propose busing them all to Oakland then blowing up the Bay Bridge, the bill gets shot down in committee.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Scuzz wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:27 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:11 am It's all about real estate prices and the consequent homelessness.
And the willingness of the city to put up with it.
The city tries to do a lot about it and there are a lot of factors which go into homelessness.

Last time I was downtown, for example, I noticed they clear the homeless out and power hose down the sidewalks to get all the detritus (as well as pee) out, and it smells a lot better than it did a few years ago. They also have free public restrooms which hose themselves down after each use, etc. SF tries to do a lot about and for the homeless population, but the problem keeps getting worse, in large part due to how bloody expensive the city is.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Pyperkub wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:04 pm
Scuzz wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:27 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:11 am It's all about real estate prices and the consequent homelessness.
And the willingness of the city to put up with it.
The city tries to do a lot about it and there are a lot of factors which go into homelessness.

Last time I was downtown, for example, I noticed they clear the homeless out and power hose down the sidewalks to get all the detritus (as well as pee) out, and it smells a lot better than it did a few years ago. They also have free public restrooms which hose themselves down after each use, etc. SF tries to do a lot about and for the homeless population, but the problem keeps getting worse, in large part due to how bloody expensive the city is.
I do plead guilty to not having been downtown for probably 6-7 years. And I remember the stories about them opening up new public restrooms.

Sadly even in relatively cheap parts of California (read Fresno) the homeless are a growing problem. I think the climate keeps them here, making it easier to handle the winters. I can't imagine the northern or central part of the country having many homeless during the winters. Fresno has entire apartment complexes devoted to the homeless, something that would seem way to expensive in a place like SF.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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It's not just SF - LA Times Editorial:
There are few sights in the world like nighttime in skid row, the teeming Dickensian dystopia in downtown Los Angeles where homeless and destitute people have been concentrated for more than a century.

Here, men and women sleep in rows, lined up one after another for block after block in makeshift tents or on cardboard mats on the sidewalks — the mad, the afflicted and the disabled alongside those who are merely down on their luck. Criminals prey on them, drugs such as heroin and crystal meth are easily available, sexual assault and physical violence are common and infectious diseases like tuberculosis, hepatitis and AIDS are constant threats...

...for as long as there have been homeless people, there has been a tendency to blame the victims themselves for their condition — to see their failure to thrive as an issue of character, of moral weakness, of laziness. Since the “deinstitutionalization” of the mentally ill in the second half of the 20th century, and the subsequent failure of government to provide the promised outpatient services for those who had been released, the problem has grown significantly worse.

Today, a confluence of factors is driving people onto the streets. The shredding of the safety net in Washington and here in California is one. (Consider the inexcusable shortage of federal Section 8 vouchers for subsidized low-income housing, or the dismally low level of “general relief payments” for the county’s neediest single adults.)

At the same time, California is experiencing a severe housing shortage. Gentrification is taking more and more once-affordable rental units off the L.A. market, and restrictive zoning laws along with high construction costs and anti-development sentiment make new affordable units hard to build. Over the last six years, the rent for a studio apartment in Los Angeles has climbed 92%, according to UCLA law professor emeritus Gary Blasi, so that even people who have jobs can find themselves living on the streets after a rent spike or an unexpected crisis. As Blasi notes: “In America, housing is a commodity. If you can afford it, you have it; if you can’t, you don’t.”

Contrary to popular belief, the homeless in Los Angeles are not mostly mentally ill or drug addicted, raving or matted-haired or frightening — although a sizable minority meet some of those descriptions. They are not mostly people who drifted in from other states in search of a comfy climate in which to sponge off of others; the overwhelming majority have lived in the region for years. Today, a greater and greater proportion of people living on the streets are there because of bad luck or a series of mistakes, or because the economy forgot them — they lost a job or were evicted or fled an abusive marriage just as the housing market was growing increasingly unforgiving.

It will surprise no one to learn that it is the most vulnerable among us who usually end up without a place to live. According to the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority, more than 5,000 of the county’s 58,000 homeless people are children and more than 4,000 are elderly. About one-third are mentally ill. Some 40% are African American. Also heavily represented: Veterans. The disabled. Young people from the county’s overwhelmed juvenile justice system and its foster care programs. Men and women just released from jail, without the tools or skills needed for reentering society. Patients released from public hospitals — often with untreated cancers, infections, heart disease or diabetes. Victims of domestic violence.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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I hope it doesn't get full before I get old and retire there to sponge off the left coasties for as long as I can stay alive.

I think I see a spot.

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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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If you live in Louisiana, you're already sponging off of the left coasters (right coasters too) ;).
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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I think LA is in the process of tearing down the huge homeless city that has grown alongside one of their freeways. The area known as Skid Row has as many as 20,000 people living in it.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Scuzz wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:55 pm I think LA is in the process of tearing down the huge homeless city that has grown alongside one of their freeways. The area known as Skid Row has as many as 20,000 people living in it.
I'm sure that will fix it.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Jeff V »

The putridity of Los Angeles should be a separate topic.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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LA makes SF look like heaven.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Scuzz wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:55 pm I think LA is in the process of tearing down the huge homeless city that has grown alongside one of their freeways. The area known as Skid Row has as many as 20,000 people living in it.
Jeebus. I live in a rural community with 3,700 people in it. I can't imagine multiplying that by 5.4 and making them homeless. Madness.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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This problem is tough to solve because it puts society as whole into a conflict with its own wants. You want a capitalist system where people can get ahead? Okay, but that in turn means many will fall behind. On the other hand, it makes people uncomfortable to see such poverty in their country. They want to be proud of how great their country is, tough to do with people reduced to pooping in the streets. To fix it requires slowing down the gains of the ones who are ahead, while assisting those who have fallen behind so they can catch up. Egads! That's sounds like socialism. What to do, what to do?
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Scuzz wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:55 pm I think LA is in the process of tearing down the huge homeless city that has grown alongside one of their freeways. The area known as Skid Row has as many as 20,000 people living in it.
2 different homeless encampments by 2 different freeways.

Skid Row near Dodger stadium is still there.

The one being cleaned up is in Orange County near the LA Angels of Anaheim stadium.

Orange County has long been more conservative (changing with the increasing latino population) and more willing to say fuck the poor. One of my best friends grew up there as a far right Reagan Republican (young americans for freedom member in college), and has been a staunch ideological Ayn Rand Libertarian for a long time - which makes for some interesting discussions, as my (classic) liberal view of a liberal interpretation of the bill of rights can dovetail quite nicely with some Libertarian beliefs. The point I'm making is that I've always referrred to him as having been born behind the Orange Curtain - an analogy for how different political beliefs were different on the opposite sides of the Iron curtain back in the day.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

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Clean up San Francisco's streets, tourist industry pleads:
San Francisco Chronicle wrote:As president of S.F. Travel, the city’s visitors bureau, Joe D’Alessandro’s job is to promote San Francisco. You’d think he’d be hyping the city’s gorgeous vistas, top-notch restaurants and glorious museums.

Instead, he’s getting honest.

Sure, San Francisco has great facets worthy of postcards and travel books, but it also has a worsening underbelly that D’Alessandro says he can no longer gloss over.

People injecting themselves with drugs in broad daylight, their dirty needles and other garbage strewn on the sidewalks. Tent camps. Human feces. The threatening behavior of some people who appear either mentally ill or high. Petty theft.

“The streets are filthy. There’s trash everywhere. It’s disgusting,” D’Alessandro said, adding he’s traveled the world, and San Francisco stands out for the wrong reasons. “I’ve never seen any other city like this — the homelessness, dirty streets, drug use on the streets, smash-and-grabs.

“How can it be?” he continued. “How can it have gotten to this point?”

Remember, this is the man whose job is to glorify San Francisco, which tells you something about how far the city has sunk.

“We can’t be quiet anymore,” D’Alessandro said. “We’ve got such a glorious history, such a beautiful setting, and the fact is, we’re letting it all slip away into this quality of life now that is not good for anybody. We’ve become complacent, and I think we’ve taken this as a kind of new normal, and it’s not. It’s wrong, and we have to do something about it.”

He said so many visitors are sending complaints to him about their experiences in San Francisco, he’s got to speak up. He joins a growing chorus of people whose jobs make them dubious about telling a columnist their real opinions of San Francisco, but who say they have to because working behind the scenes isn’t moving the needle. Well, so to speak.

In January, I told you about hotel managers and owners speaking out. Kevin Carroll, executive director of the Hotel Council, which represents 110 hotels, said at the time, “People say, ‘I love your city, I love your restaurants, but I’ll never come back.’”

In February, I told you that the Union Square Business Improvement District, which assesses extra property taxes to pay for services in the shopping mecca, was having to train retail workers on what to do when a severely mentally ill or drug-addicted person wreaks havoc in their store.

“We’re desperate enough to expose ourselves to look for solutions,” said Karin Flood, executive director of the business improvement district.

Add S.F. Travel to the list. D’Alessandro and Cassandra Costello, the vice president of public policy, said they’re hearing increasing complaints from business organizations that pay a lot of money to hold events here.

For the first time, the group has hired its own safety consultant: Michael Deely, a retired San Francisco police captain. He’s charged with coming up with strategies to keep convention-goers safe around Moscone Center and downtown. He’ll also be directing 10B police officers — uniformed, off-duty officers who are paid privately — hired by S.F. Travel during big conventions.

“We want to create a safe and secure environment between the hotels and Moscone Center itself,” Deely said. “We don’t want to wait to find out about it in surveys afterwards.”

To preemptively answer some complaints I know this column will bring: No, tourists and businesspeople don’t matter more than homeless people, those addicted to drugs and others in desperate need of help. But their outsider’s view can jolt us into not merely rushing past those who are down on their luck and to realizing that the status quo is not compassionate or effective.

Also, paying for shelters and supportive housing, teams to coax the homeless inside, and drug, alcohol and mental health services costs a lot of money. And who brings in the biggest pot? Yep, the tourists and conventioneers. They spend $9 billion in San Francisco every year, $725 million of which goes to City Hall in the form of taxes.

Third, too many San Franciscans conflate homelessness and street crime, which is inaccurate and unhelpful. It isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime to be homeless. These people need our help. But that doesn’t mean street crime — such as bicycle chop shops, theft, drug dealing and harassing pedestrians — is OK.

The vast majority of those business groups struggling with whether to continue hosting events in San Francisco won’t speak publicly because they don’t want potential attendees to be scared off.

But the Game Developers Conference, which drew 28,000 international gaming professionals to Moscone Center last month, found itself in the public eye after some tweets from frustrated conference-goers went viral.

An Australian gamer tweeted that San Francisco “is a dangerous city” and the conference should no longer be hosted here. He cited a mugging, credit card theft and the general feeling of being unsafe. Others chimed in with stories of car break-ins, a knife fight and assaults. One attendee tweeted that all the developers he’d talked to were “still shell shocked after this year.”
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
Jeff V
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Jeff V »

The first step is admitting you have a problem. It'll be interesting to see what plan they come up with to address that problem.

I read an article last week that the Philippines is completely shutting down the resort island of Borocay for 6 months. In terms of tourism from the average American perspective, it would be like shutting down one of the Hawaiian islands. 19,000 live there, nearly all working in the tourism industry. They are closing it down to clean up what's been described as the island "turning into a cesspool" from over use. I can't imagine how bad it is that shutdown became the best option.
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gameoverman
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by gameoverman »

I have a suspicion that the 'solution' will be some variation of this:

Certain areas will be designated as tourist areas. So the path from major travel hubs, like an airport, will be scrubbed clean to and from the designated tourist area. This way people going to San Francisco to visit will never see anything other than the areas prepared for them.

This accomplishes a couple of things. It helps tourism. It protects the city's image since no one visiting sees anything bad. And last but certainly not least, it requires absolutely no attempt to help the homeless.
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by Scuzz »

The "cause" of much of this has been the cities just leaving the homeless alone. That just doesn't work. My last trip there I found homeless around city hall that you had to walk around.

There is helping and there is accepting. Accepting does nobody any good.

But there is also the fact that a percentage of the homeless don't want help unless it is on their terms. My city has seen that. Fresno offers many options for the homeless and yet many refuse to use them. But good weather cities just have homeless problems.

Debate what would actually work is another topic.
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gameoverman
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Re: How putrid is San Francisco?

Post by gameoverman »

I agree that figuring out what to do as 'help' is a separate issue.

As to the homeless wanting it on their terms, well, yeah, we all want everything on our own terms. Why would the homeless be different? My view is that if we allow ourselves to get hung up on who is in control then we will be stuck in place forever.

As a basic philosophy, I want things done. I don't care if they're done your way or my way, as long as they get done and on time(if time is a factor). If I allow myself to get caught up fighting with you over doing things my way vs doing them your way then nothing is getting done. I realize not everyone is so flexible but that's why so many problems exist and continue to exist as we all sit around debating what should be done.

If the homeless want help a certain way, that's why I'd be in favor of doing it that way. As long as it achieves the goal who cares if it's done their way or how society prefers?
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