Olive Garden love

[AWS260]

The fried cheese sticks remind me of this story:
http://gawker.com/my-14-hour-search-for ... 1606122925

That's pretty awesome.

Caity Weaver is The Best. She writes for GQ these days. Not about TGI Friday's mozzarella sticks (yet).

[Jeff V]

Oddly, I've been to "authentic" Italian restaurants in multiple large cities, and always come away wildly unimpressed.

Judging an Italian restaurant on the quality of spaghetti is like judging a fine steakhouse on their meatloaf. There is wonderfully complex Italian food...spaghetti is just not it. I don't recall ever ordering spaghetti in a restaurant; there's always something more interesting.

[GreenGoo]

Oddly, I've been to "authentic" Italian restaurants in multiple large cities, and always come away wildly unimpressed.

Judging an Italian restaurant on the quality of spaghetti is like judging a fine steakhouse on their meatloaf. There is wonderfully complex Italian food...spaghetti is just not it. I don't recall ever ordering spaghetti in a restaurant; there's always something more interesting.

+1.

The idea that there aren't great Italian restaurants, particularly as they compare to OG, is somehow offensive, and all I do is eat Italian food occasionally. I can only imagine an Italian chef would cut you.

[Isgrimnur]

So aside from defaulting to chicken parm and lasagna, what are the high points that you look for?

[GreenGoo]

I personally have a tough time not ordering Veal Mignonette if available.

Here's an example of what I would consider an above average Italian restaurant near Ottawa. My favourite place, a small intimate location in Westboro (this is for Max) was sold when the owner wanted to retire and now I have no idea what's there. Not my favourite place, whatever it is. The original place was were I learned what Veal Mignonette was, and I have never seen it's like anywhere else.

Cabotto's Menu page

Their Veal Mignonette is a pale comparison to the other place (I can't for the life of me remember the name ), but it's still miles above your typical "good" restaurant.

I should point out that I am in no way a food snob. I will eat almost literally anything if I don't have to make it and someone puts it in front of me. That doesn't mean my palate doesn't work.

[Skinypupy]

Oddly, I've been to "authentic" Italian restaurants in multiple large cities, and always come away wildly unimpressed.

Judging an Italian restaurant on the quality of spaghetti is like judging a fine steakhouse on their meatloaf. There is wonderfully complex Italian food...spaghetti is just not it. I don't recall ever ordering spaghetti in a restaurant; there's always something more interesting.

+1.

The idea that there aren't great Italian restaurants, particularly as they compare to OG, is somehow offensive, and all I do is eat Italian food occasionally. I can only imagine an Italian chef would cut you.

I'm not saying there aren't great Italian restaurants, or that OG is particularly good. Obviously, neither is true. I'm just saying that in my experience of the few actual authentic ones that I've been to (6 or 7, probably), none of them have been particularly noteworthy. And yes, I've tried things other than spaghetti...that just happened to be the most recent example.

Similarly, I find the more "authentic" a Mexican restaurant is, the less I typically like it. I just have a very bland pallet in general and am the world's pickiest eater.

[LordMortis]

I could almost stomach the food, but the house wine is far worse than the box wine I drink at home.

Isn't it generally accepted that boxing wine is better than the same wine being bottled with the exception being you can't "age" a boxed wine?

I have never quite understood the Olive Garden hate. I think it directly corresponds to the ability to get better Italian food in your area. Olive Garden isn't bad, I love the 5 Cheese Lasagna, but I know a few places where for a few bucks more I can get much more flavorful Italian food. We do get a gift card for our anniversary every few years and we use it without a problem.

Maybe. We have mom and pop Italian restaurant on every square mile around here. There about half as common as a Coney Island (Diner to non Michiganders, I guess, though all of our Diners are Coney Islands and all of our Coney Islands specialize in Coneys...) And about 1/8th as common a pizza place. The pizza places we have per square mile is astounding.

To the pizza place bitch comment, Papa John's I don't get. It's expensive and bad. Again maybe it's because we have two pizza places on every corner but Papa John's is about the only pizza I turn my nose up to... Unless it's free and in front of me. I have no qualms with Pizza Hut or Dominoes though neither are go to options for me.

One food thing that does put me off is when the person you're with orders something completely different than what the place is known for. If we're at place known for their lamb dishes and someone orders chicken...OMG!

I know right!? While perusing the menu I saw they had hamburgers. I said to my wife "WTF would I go to OG and order a hamburger??" Same thing with me at a Fish place...I refuse to get chicken or a burger there either.

I did see OG has a nice bar area and some nice looking cocktails. Im a mixed drink guy so that interests me. But with $4 left on the gift card doubt Id get to go back. And to top it off I joined their email just to get a free dessert then I ran off without my coupon.

A) You are a child
B) You don't like the food but you like the company. I've been dragged to plenty of fish places and never order fish. If you dragged me to a fish place and they didn't have a burger or steak or chicken then you'd drag me there once.

So aside from defaulting to chicken parm and lasagna, what are the high points that you look for?

I swear to pancake most Italian restaurants pride themselves on their Minestrone soup. I can't stand the stuff. I personally look for the Chicken Parm. Pasta Prima Verde and Chicken Marsala are common Italian judgey foods as well. Also pizza using the tiny peperonis that curl up when cooked so they retain the grease in little pepperoni pockets all over the pizza is a judgey thing they look for. Me I just judge on chicken parm because short of meatballs and pizza it's the best Italian food ever.

[Blackhawk]

Re: burgers at specialty restaurants.

Because if they don't, people stop going there.

Families where not every member likes Italian will go to Olive Garden if they know that the one person who won't eat food with sauces (and I was married to one once) can get something else. If that person has nothing but breadsticks as an option, they'll go elsewhere.

I was just reading an article about how German restaurants everywhere are disappearing. The ones that stay in business are doing things like adding avocado toast or German themed burgers to their menus. The ones that insist on only traditional foods are going out of business.

[stessier]

Re: burgers at specialty restaurants.

Because if they don't, people stop going there.

Families where not every member likes Italian will go to Olive Garden if they know that the one person who won't eat food with sauces (and I was married to one once) can get something else. If that person has nothing but breadsticks as an option, they'll go elsewhere.

That's exactly right. My wife married one too. I'm pretty sure I'd give Skinnypuppy a run for his money in the picky food eater competition.

[Sepiche]

I was just reading an article about how German restaurants everywhere are disappearing. The ones that stay in business are doing things like adding avocado toast or German themed burgers to their menus. The ones that insist on only traditional foods are going out of business.

We're lucky in that there's a great, old school, German restaurant about a half hour down the road from us in Paola, KS. They have a lovely German woman who makes all the food and deserts about as authentically German as you can get. The food is incredibly heavy, and drenched in vinegar, but the bierox, jagerschnitzel, and green beans are amazing.

[msteelers]

I wish we had a German restaurant near here. The closest thing we have to it is the German buffet at Epcot.

[ImLawBoy]

I wish we had a German restaurant near here. The closest thing we have to it is the German buffet at Epcot.

What about The Hoffman?

[GreenGoo]

No authentic cuisine restaurant should have hamburgers on the menu.

I can't imagine going to an authentic Mexican restaurant that had hamburgers on the menu.

Hell, taco bell is still in business and they don't sell hamburgers.

The idea that a restaurant can't stay in business if they don't sell hamburgers must be an regional thing.

Even restaurants with a kids menu will have things like buttered noodles or mac and cheese if the main menu doesn't offer hamburgers.

An Indian restaurant that offers hamburgers? *Shudder*

[Holman]

When I was in Ann Arbor there was a restaurant called "The Old German" that seemed to cater exclusively to old Germans. I used to hang out at the coffee shop across the street, and about once a month an ambulance would pull up to see about another old German's heart attack.

The internet informs me that the restaurant is still there, but they seem to have updated themselves in a brew-pub direction.

[Scuzz]

I have never quite understood the Olive Garden hate. I think it directly corresponds to the ability to get better Italian food in your area.

Probably. I find the responses in threads like this kind of humorous, as OO's demographic (which seems to be largely urban/suburban and moderately well off) shows.

There is one in Terre Haute, about 30 miles from here. For most people, it, along with Red Lobster, is considered a high-end 'fancy' restaurant. People get dressed up to go there and consider it a special occasion. I haven't eaten there in decades, as it is way, way too expensive for me. Of course, I don't eat out much at all because of the price. I could eat at home for two days for what most fast food meals cost. Going to Olive Garden with both kids costs about the same as what my grocery budget is for all three of us for an entire week.

I consider Red Lobster the McDonalds of sea food restaurants. We occasionally get a gift card for Red Lobster and we use it, and I try to like it, and I do think it has improved over the years, but the bar was set so low.

But, in many cities, finding a good sea food place is probably not very easy.

[Rumpy]

Here's an example of what I would consider an above average Italian restaurant near Ottawa.

Robbie's is another fairly good Italian place in Ottawa.

[GreenGoo]

True but I've only been to the one on Walkley and not for years.

The last time I went it was only ok, but that could have been just that particular night or dish (can't even remember what I ordered).

I loved it as a kid, and the Robbie's special spaghetti is all I ordered there until I hit my teens.

I'm only reluctant to agree fully because I haven't been in years so I don't have any current experience with it.

[Scuzz]

I don't think we have a German place here. But there are a few places that sell beerocks. There are now parts of town that have Pho Restaurants on every street corner.

[ImLawBoy]

I have never quite understood the Olive Garden hate. I think it directly corresponds to the ability to get better Italian food in your area.

Probably. I find the responses in threads like this kind of humorous, as OO's demographic (which seems to be largely urban/suburban and moderately well off) shows.

There is one in Terre Haute, about 30 miles from here. For most people, it, along with Red Lobster, is considered a high-end 'fancy' restaurant. People get dressed up to go there and consider it a special occasion. I haven't eaten there in decades, as it is way, way too expensive for me. Of course, I don't eat out much at all because of the price. I could eat at home for two days for what most fast food meals cost. Going to Olive Garden with both kids costs about the same as what my grocery budget is for all three of us for an entire week.

I consider Red Lobster the McDonalds of sea food restaurants. We occasionally get a gift card for Red Lobster and we use it, and I try to like it, and I do think it has improved over the years, but the bar was set so low.

But, in many cities, finding a good sea food place is probably not very easy.

I waited tables at The Lob, as I called it, one summer while I was still in law school. My suggested motto was, "If it swims, we can deep fry it!"

I think the key to eating at Red Lobster is getting the fresh fish prepared simply. It's not going to blow you away, but the fish itself always seemed like good quality. I would often get something with their blackened seasoning.

[GreenGoo]

In support of the "no one goes if they don't have hamburgers" comment, I was introduced to an authentic German place in Ottawa only to have it go out of business a year later, after 35 years.

That was a sad day. I had never had authentic, good German food and I was very excited to start frequenting the place. Plus they'd serve your beer in a glass boot if you asked nicely.

[LordMortis]

When I was in Ann Arbor there was a restaurant called "The Old German" that seemed to cater exclusively to old Germans. I used to hang out at the coffee shop across the street, and about once a month an ambulance would pull up to see about another old German's heart attack.

The internet informs me that the restaurant is still there, but they seem to have updated themselves in a brew-pub direction.

Ironically, the best thing there? Gnocchi in a white sauce. OMG. You could just dip their hard bread in there and make that a meal. So good. I haven't been there such a long long time.

The moved Metzgers to the West side all the way out on Zeeb and 94. Was there last autumn and they were as fantastic as ever.

I think the key to eating at Red Lobster is getting the fresh fish prepared simply. It's not going to blow you away, but the fish itself always seemed like good quality. I would often get something with their blackened seasoning. cheddar biscuits

I also worked there one summer. I want to say 95 or 96.

[GreenGoo]

For the record, I understand budget is a consideration (for many, the most important one), and that if you want authentic you have to pay for it.

Yet the restaurants I'm discussing are only slightly more expensive than an average middle of the road restaurant.

You can easily spend the same at Baton Rouge, which is a sort of "almost authentic" Louisiana restaurant with average to good entrees, but not truly authentic. It feels like an expensive chain. My wife loves it for the chicken and ribs but I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. They also have hamburgers on the menu.

These aren't restaurants you take your family to once a week unless you're well off (not me, they are special events mostly), but if you're well off, there is another tier of restaurants that cater to the wealthy.

There's "good" food and then there is "good value for the money" food. We should probably make sure everyone is talking about apples before we decide to offer differing opinions.

My bad.

[Isgrimnur]

Hell, taco bell is still in business and they don't sell hamburgers.

But they are currently selling fries:

[Rumpy]

True but I've only been to the one on Walkley and not for years.

The last time I went it was only ok, but that could have been just that particular night or dish (can't even remember what I ordered).

I loved it as a kid, and the Robbie's special spaghetti is all I ordered there until I hit my teens.

I'm only reluctant to agree fully because I haven't been in years so I don't have any current experience with it.

Ahh, I think the last time I went was maybe 5 years ago? Been to both locations and a total of 3 times maybe, and I'd been impressed each time. Keep in mind, that Sudbury doesn't really have much in terms of restauraunts unless they're big chains, so anything better than chain food is going to impress me. The only place that resembles a good italian restauraunt here is P&M's: Kouzzina, which is Greek/Italian and right down the road from me. But it's recently become quite expensive.

[Kraken]

Isn't it generally accepted that boxing wine is better than the same wine being bottled with the exception being you can't "age" a boxed wine?

Boxes are superior at excluding air and light, and easier to handle/more durable than glass. With few exceptions it is only used for inferior wines, reinforcing consumer resistance. Much like canning beer -- for years, only swill came in cans. But the package is so superior (thanks in part to new can liners) that virtually all craft brewers use it now. I resisted canned beer for a long time; now I prefer it.

[Jeff V]

No authentic cuisine restaurant should have hamburgers on the menu.

I can't imagine going to an authentic Mexican restaurant that had hamburgers on the menu.

Hell, taco bell is still in business and they don't sell hamburgers.

The idea that a restaurant can't stay in business if they don't sell hamburgers must be an regional thing.

Even restaurants with a kids menu will have things like buttered noodles or mac and cheese if the main menu doesn't offer hamburgers.

An Indian restaurant that offers hamburgers? *Shudder*

You're not conflating an authentic Mexican restaurant with Taco Bell, are you?

Fast food joints are fundamentally different than most sit-down restaurants. They stick with a few product lines that they can do well, and for kids offer up miniature versions of the same. This doesn't work in a steakhouse, though, where a petite steak offering might still be $20-30. If they want to sell expensive entrees to parents, they need to offer not only something kids are familiar eating, but at a price commensurate with cheaper dining options. A lot of places go with a standard fare of burgers, hot dogs, mac and cheese, pizza, grilled cheese, chicken nuggets. I was at a sushi place a few weeks ago though where the most familiar thing on the kids menu was a bento box containing a salmon filet, rice, and fresh fruit. My wife wants to go back there, but there's a good chance we won't unless we ditch the kids.

The main issue with large chain restaurants is that in the interest of corporate strategy, the food is uniformly the same. There is no creative effort exercised in the kitchen. Everything is prepared from explicit instruction handed down from corporate -- much of it pre-packaged at production facilities and distributed to the endpoint locations. Now, if the price-point is low enough, that's fine -- you get what you pay for. The problem with the likes of Red Lobster, though, is they think they are a premium dining place, and they aren't. Just don't go there...find an independent joint working a similar genre and try something creatively prepared for nearly the same price; nearly always the experience will be more memorable (and likely much better).

[Jeff V]

Isn't it generally accepted that boxing wine is better than the same wine being bottled with the exception being you can't "age" a boxed wine?

Boxes are superior at excluding air and light, and easier to handle/more durable than glass. With few exceptions it is only used for inferior wines, reinforcing consumer resistance.

No, the real benefit is that you can remove the bladder from the box and hang it from an IV stand. If you can bypass your tastebuds, you never need to consider how shitty the wine is.

[Paingod]

Isn't it generally accepted that boxing wine is better than the same wine being bottled with the exception being you can't "age" a boxed wine?

Boxes are superior at excluding air and light, and easier to handle/more durable than glass. With few exceptions it is only used for inferior wines, reinforcing consumer resistance.

No, the real benefit is that you can remove the bladder from the box and hang it from an IV stand. If you can bypass your tastebuds, you never need to consider how shitty the wine is.

So bottled wines are better for enjoyment, boxed wines are better for wine enemas.

[coopasonic]

and am the world's pickiest eater.

Stessier would like to have word.

Dammit. I guess I should have kept reading.

Re: burgers at specialty restaurants.

Because if they don't, people stop going there.

Families where not every member likes Italian will go to Olive Garden if they know that the one person who won't eat food with sauces (and I was married to one once) can get something else. If that person has nothing but breadsticks as an option, they'll go elsewhere.

That's exactly right. My wife married one too. I'm pretty sure I'd give Skinnypuppy a run for his money in the picky food eater competition.

[Daehawk]

Just sitting thinking on it I cant name a single place to eat in my town where the food is actually made by hand then cooked then served. Fast food sure doesn't and these upscale fast food places like OG and Applebees and such dont either. In my own town theres no homemade places....that I can think of anyways. Im a little surprised by that.

[ImLawBoy]

While I think it can be fun to have a truly "authentic" ethnic dinner, I also think we can get a bit too fetishistic about something being authentic. When I go to a Mexican restaurant in my community, I'm not getting the same meal I would get at a restaurant in Mexico, despite my neighborhood having a heavily Mexican-descended or immigrated population. That doesn't mean it's bad. It's just been adapted a bit. And if they throw a burger on their menu so that a picky kid will eat something while his parents have the main menu food? No big deal - it doesn't affect the quality of the other food.

We have a Costa Rican restaurant near us that we order from maybe once a month. Is their food authentic? I have no idea - I've never been to Costa Rica, and there aren't any other Costa Rican restaurants around to compare it to. It's really good, though, but the main menu doesn't really work for the kids. Fortunately, they have a Mexican staples section on the menu, so we get the twins chicken tacos (which they promptly deconstruct - bite of tortilla here, some chicken there, etc.). Somehow I doubt the inclusion of some tacos and burritos affects the quality of the main menu. I'm not going to deprive myself of their good food because they're not 100% authentic.

A big chunk of Italian restaurants in Chicago serve something called "Chicken Vesuvio". It's really quite tasty. It's also really not Italian - at best it's Italian-American (or maybe even Chicago Italian-American). Again, though, it's really good, and you'll at least be able to say you've had an "authentic" Chicago meal if you order it.

Food authenticity purists drive me kind of nuts. Pizza is really good in a whole bunch of different formats, and I like just about all of them (excluding St. Louis style, of course). People who act like Chicago style deep dish isn't really pizza just because it doesn't match their childhood definition and Jon Stewart had a mind-bogglingly bad casserole-related take on the topic confuse me. BBQ from different regions is generally really, really good, and I'm glad the regional variations exist. Enjoy *all* the smoked meats, people!

The one sacrosanct exception to all of this is ketchup on hot dogs. If you're still doing that after you've reached your teenaged years, you deserve ostracism.

[coopasonic]

The one sacrosanct exception to all of this is ketchup on hot dogs. If you're still doing that after you've reached your teenaged years, you deserve ostracism.

Don't you boil your hot dogs?

[ImLawBoy]

The problem with the likes of Red Lobster, though, is they think they are a premium dining place, and they aren't.

Unless something has changed since I worked there, they do not think they're a premium dining place. They cost more than their casual dining peers, but that's largely the result of fresh seafood having higher costs than a lot of other restaurant products.

[ImLawBoy]

The one sacrosanct exception to all of this is ketchup on hot dogs. If you're still doing that after you've reached your teenaged years, you deserve ostracism.

Don't you boil your hot dogs?

If you boil them, you're doing it wrong. You can simmer them. Another approach is to bring the water to a boil and then turn off the heat, letting the dogs cook in the water. That way you still get a wonderful snap from the casing of the dog without drying it out by charring it and blistering the skin. This only works for real dogs with natural casings, of course. If you're using Oscar Mayer or something like that then it doesn't really matter how you cook it - it's just bad.

(In reality, I will throw dogs on the grill if we're having a cookout and kids want hot dogs.)

[LordMortis]

The one sacrosanct exception to all of this is ketchup on hot dogs. If you're still doing that after you've reached your teenaged years, you deserve ostracism.

If it's not a coney and I am forced to eat hot dog, ketchup is fine, especially if your stuck with ballpark frank style dog, which may as will be a tube of bologna on hotdog bun. Now, ketchup on coney doesn't make sense.

[Daehawk]

Hate to hurt anyone but pizza is not Italian..its fully American. At least the pizza we know and love.

As for hotdogs I haven't boiled one or ate a boiled one in 35 years or more. if Im in a hurry and my normal way of doing it I microwave it. If I take my time and want the best tasting one I broil it in my mini toaster oven. And the only things I ever put on a dog are from this list.....mustard, chili, sauerkraut, hotslaw, onions. MAaaaaaaaaybe a spot of mayo at times but thats only me.

[Blackhawk]

Unless they are deep in a Hispanic neighborhood (and likely don't have a big sign advertising them), most 'authentic' Mexican restaurants serve some variant of Tex-Mex with a few authentic dishes here and there.

Again, so that they will have customers. American palettes don't know what to do with most truly authentic foods, which tend to be either 'bland' compared to ours (IE - less salt and/or sugar and not as processed), or so spicy that most of us can't eat them.

[Daehawk]

That sounds spot on.

[GreenGoo]

I think it's safe to say that wherever I said authentic, I really meant high quality, attention to detail, and real effort to bring the style and taste from the geographical location being showcased.

I agree that many high quality ethnic restaurants are not authentic.

Sorry for the confusion.

Jeff V, I said "hell, taco bell" which should have indicated my lowly opinion of them. Maybe if I had said "hell, even taco bell..." It would have been clearer.

For the record I like taco bell. Also, I can eat anything, pretty much.

I once chewed on a dirty penny found on the floor of a food court for a minute to win 10 bucks.

You're thinking " kids do stupid things". I was 38.

[AWS260]

The fried cheese sticks remind me of this story:
http://gawker.com/my-14-hour-search-for ... 1606122925

That's pretty awesome.

Caity Weaver is The Best. She writes for GQ these days. Not about TGI Friday's mozzarella sticks (yet).

update

i feel like she was just waiting for me to post that she works at GQ before announcing this

edit: I just realized that the official NY Times announcement specifically references her endless mozzarella sticks story. As it should.