Ford drops all but 2 car models for North America

[Daehawk]

Thats right...in NA if you want a Ford the only two choices at dealers will be a Mustang or a upcoming Ford Focus Active. Everything else....Fusion, Fiesta, Taurus, regular Focus ...gone. This is cars btw ...trucks and SUVs will stay. They say that Americans dont care about hatchbacks and sedans....yet that new is a semi hatchback thing.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/25/autos/f ... index.html

Ford (F) said on Wednesday the only passenger car models it plans to keep on the market in North America will be the Mustang and the upcoming Ford Focus Active, a crossover-like hatchback that's slated to debut in 2019.

[DD*]

Pretty much all of the crossovers that have been developed and released over the last 5+ years are all car platforms - essentially tall wagons. Ford Escape, Edge, Flex, even Explorer are all built on "car" platforms but sold and marketed as CUVs or SUVs. Traditional sedans simply are not selling in the US and have not been for quite some time. Chrysler got rid of Plymouth and they are down to only 3 or 4 cars between Chrysler (just the 300, I believe) and Dodge (Challenger, Charger). GM is doing the same thing, just not announcing it big-bang style. Gotta go where the market is...

Article from the Detroit News

The only segment that is halfway decent for sales is luxury sedans, and even there the growth is in SUVs and crossovers.

[Chaz]

I kind of hate this development. I mostly want as small a car as I can get away with, for as little money, and with high gas mileage. Nice equipment and fun to drive are secondary nice to haves. My current car is a Fiesta, which did all of those things great. Now that we'll have two kids in a few months, the Fiesta is kinda limiting, just because the back seat is too small to fit rear facing car seats in without moving the front seats way forward.

My wife loves driving big cars, so she's got a Forester, which is the primary kid mover, so the trend toward bigger cars is fine for her. For me, if we decide to get a new car to replace the Fiesta, it sure seems like my options to get a hatchback with a bigger back seat will be way more limited, and that makes me sad. I don't want to pay the premium for a crossover that I don't want.

We're also sad about the continued death of manual gearboxes in America, since we both prefer driving stick. Oh well, I guess we're getting left behind by the American car market, and we'll be looking at used cars next time we're shopping.

[DD*]

I kind of hate this development. I mostly want as small a car as I can get away with, for as little money, and with high gas mileage. Nice equipment and fun to drive are secondary nice to haves. My current car is a Fiesta, which did all of those things great. Now that we'll have two kids in a few months, the Fiesta is kinda limiting, just because the back seat is too small to fit rear facing car seats in without moving the front seats way forward.

My wife loves driving big cars, so she's got a Forester, which is the primary kid mover, so the trend toward bigger cars is fine for her. For me, if we decide to get a new car to replace the Fiesta, it sure seems like my options to get a hatchback with a bigger back seat will be way more limited, and that makes me sad. I don't want to pay the premium for a crossover that I don't want.

We're also sad about the continued death of manual gearboxes in America, since we both prefer driving stick. Oh well, I guess we're getting left behind by the American car market, and we'll be looking at used cars next time we're shopping.

Honda Fit sounds like a good choice for you, from what I understand. And there is always used, which is how I buy all my vehicles. Let someone else take the depreciation hit

[Chaz]

The Fit was one of the three I was considering when I got the Fiesta, but the electronics were ancient by comparison, and I didn't like the feel of the gearbox.

Used may be the thing next time I shop, but I tend to drive cars into the ground, so getting it new gives me extra years. I've been driving my current car for seven years now, and I hope to get another three or four out of it at least.

[LawBeefaroni]

What about their other makes, though? I assume Lincoln will still be putting out sedans. I know the MKZ is on the Fusion platform. And there's Mercury as well.

This makes little sense to me seeing the cars on the street here in the city, but if I go to Michigan or Indiana or rural Illinois, it makes total sense.

[Combustible Lemur]

Cubes are ugly but pretty enjoyable to drive.

Also, as long as Toyota keeps making camrys, my wife will be happy

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[DD*]

What about their other makes, though? I assume Lincoln will still be putting out sedans. I know the MKZ is on the Fusion platform. And there's Mercury as well.

This makes little sense to me seeing the cars on the street here in the city, but if I go to Michigan or Indiana or rural Illinois, it makes total sense.

I believe that Lincoln will still offer cars - at least the Continental and (possibly) the MKZ or whatever it's follow-on is. Still, they have at least 3 SUVs right now and are killing it with the new Navigator.

Canada is a bit of a different market than the US, and I could see FoMoCo still selling some car models up there. The next Focus will be built in China and could be easily imported if there is a market.

[LordMortis]

I'm little surprised to hear about the CMax going away with all the money they dumped in to it and even the Fusion which seems to sell well enough around here even at prices I consider to be out of alignment with value but if it's not making money or not selling, better to cut bait early, I guess.

Pretty much all of the crossovers that have been developed and released over the last 5+ years are all car platforms - essentially tall wagons. Ford Escape, Edge, Flex, even Explorer are all built on "car" platforms but sold and marketed as CUVs or SUVs.

Mostly this. While they are all essentially tall comfortable stations wagons with amenities, the Explorer may have station wagon frame but it is a mixed suspension, leaning toward people who a light weight truck that handles more like car.

I kind of hate this development. I mostly want as small a car as I can get away with, for as little money, and with high gas mileage.

I was this way until about I drove my Focus for a couple of years. It's not designed for me getting older. I'm too tall, too fat, and getting old too young to sit in that for two 40 minutes trips a day.

And there's Mercury as well.

This makes little sense to me seeing the cars on the street here in the city, but if I go to Michigan or Indiana or rural Illinois, it makes total sense.

Mercury was co-oped by Lincoln and dissolved years ago, which was a bummer because they better version of low end Ford's like the Tracer over the Escort for around the same price.

How many newer Ford "cars" that aren't mustangs or Focuses do you see?

While, I'm personally not a fan of the move, this has been Ford's open business model for a very long time, trying to get away from in during the gas crunch in 2003 and the compact EV concerns of 2008 but failing every time the economy "recovered". They want to make what people will buy and ever since the big three have become the Detroit three and transplants have eaten market share, the Fords people buy aren't Tauruses and Fiestas and Fiats.

[LordMortis]

The next Focus will be built in China and could be easily imported if there is a market.

I think that's Ford's way of abandoning the Focus in NA. I'm surprised by this. No one who buys a new Focus now is going to want one made in China. Maybe Ford assumed the same thing about a Focus assembled in Mexico. I guess they weren't shitting us when they said the Focus has been losing them money for years.

[pr0ner]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

[LordMortis]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

It looks like the rollback thought process began in 2016. Huh. I can only imagine how the administration would run with that thought process. That said, I'm not sure how much more economy you want out of a petrol based vehicle. You gain economy primarily by shedding weight. Engineering in shedding weight has come a long way in 20 years. If you try to squeeze too much blood falling off the turnip truck you economy not only will start hurting reliability, it will set back safety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate ... el_economy

[pr0ner]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

It looks like the rollback thought process began in 2016. Huh. I can only imagine how the administration would run with that thought process. That said, I'm not sure how much more economy you want out of a petrol based vehicle. You gain economy primarily by shedding weight. Engineering in shedding weight has come a long way in 20 years. If you try to squeeze too much blood falling off the turnip truck you economy not only will start hurting reliability, it will set back safety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate ... el_economy

I disagree. I think fuel economy comes more from smaller, more efficient engines than shedding weight.

Take a look at BMW. Their 2009 328i had a curb weight of 3362 lbs, had a 3.0 liter inline 6 engine, and was rated at 18 city/28 highway. The 2018 330i has a curb weight of 3410 lbs (more weight!), has a 2.0 liter turbo charged inline 4 engine (smaller engine!), and is rated at 24 city/34 highway. That's a 6 MPG improvement in a heavier car thanks to a smaller engine.

I'm sure there's some weight shedding going on, but the increased fuel economy comes from going to smaller engines more than shedding weight. Especially with so much focus on safety.

[coopasonic]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

I can't remember the source, but something I read said that F was losing money on sedans. They make their money on SUVs and trucks.

I think Lincoln dropping the MKZ is also pretty likely with the Fusion going. Less cars out of a platform is not how to make it more profitable, even if the Lincoln version has more advantageous pricing.

I kind of hate this development. I mostly want as small a car as I can get away with, for as little money, and with high gas mileage. Nice equipment and fun to drive are secondary nice to haves. My current car is a Fiesta, which did all of those things great. Now that we'll have two kids in a few months, the Fiesta is kinda limiting, just because the back seat is too small to fit rear facing car seats in without moving the front seats way forward.

The American brands aren't the only brands. At least so far, there are plenty of small options. Check out the Mazda 3 for you small, cheap, fun to drive, with a stick fix.

I have found myself giving consideration to crossovers, but nobody makes an affordable sporty crossover that I like the looks of. Macan Turbo checks all but the price box and even used the price box is still a problem.

[Hamlet3145]

As another small-ish (but not too small for kids) option: Volkswagen Golf. I have a 2016 Golf SE (albeit in the longer Sportswagen trim) and it's my favorite vehicle that I've owned. Practical, but the little 1.8 turbo is torque-y and fun. And if I do the speed limit on the highway, I can just about get 40 mpg too.

[Octavious]

I LOVE my Honda Civic that I got a couple of weeks back. The radio is a bit clunky, but otherwise what you get for the price has to be the best deal out there for compacts. It has crazy good gas mileage, tons of features and looks pretty cool. Very fun to drive as well. If you slam the pedal down the car takes off, it's quite fun. *Note I have the turbo version*. Right now I'm getting 33MPG combined and I wasted a lot of time just idling and using the remote start etc... It's rated at 42 MPG highway. That's nuts. And the turbo engine gets better mileage than the regular one.

[Holman]

Model T, black.

[DD*]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

The whole CAFE standards are bad joke. It was *supposed to* reduce gas usage, but as with pretty much every government mandate ever in the history of always, it did nothing of the sort. It did, however, increase the cost of vehicles (money out of your pocket) and produce yet another taxpayer dollar sucking bureaucracy in Washington.

[DD*]

Model T, black.

True story - I learned to drive a standard on a Model T when I worked at Greenfield Village when I was but a lad. Double clutching and the whole nine yards. Let us say that vehicles in general were a bit more... elemental back in the day.

[Holman]

[LawBeefaroni]

From the local Craine's (sub):

At Ford's Torrence Avenue plant on Chicago's Far South Side, Taurus production will end by March 2019, said Ford spokeswoman Kelli Felker in an email. The plant assembles both the Taurus and the more-profitable Explorer using parts stamped at the company's other plant in Chicago Heights. The Taurus “will be replaced with an all-new Lincoln Aviator," Felker said. "We expect the demand for these products to support the same number of jobs (in Chicago) as we have today.”

The automaker expects to save $25.5 billion by 2022, Chief Financial Officer Bob Shanks told reporters Wednesday as Ford reported first-quarter earnings per share and revenue that beat estimates. The company now anticipates reaching an 8 percent profit margin by 2020, two years ahead of schedule.

As a sometime shareholder, I'm cautiously optimistic but as a longtime driver and fan of full size Detroit sedans, particularly Ford makes, it's a bummer.

[pr0ner]

If Ford is going to add a new Lincoln sedan, I guess it fits in with what I read that the luxury sedan market is still doing okay.

[LordMortis]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

It looks like the rollback thought process began in 2016. Huh. I can only imagine how the administration would run with that thought process. That said, I'm not sure how much more economy you want out of a petrol based vehicle. You gain economy primarily by shedding weight. Engineering in shedding weight has come a long way in 20 years. If you try to squeeze too much blood falling off the turnip truck you economy not only will start hurting reliability, it will set back safety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate ... el_economy

I disagree. I think fuel economy comes more from smaller, more efficient engines than shedding weight.

Take a look at BMW. Their 2009 328i had a curb weight of 3362 lbs, had a 3.0 liter inline 6 engine, and was rated at 18 city/28 highway. The 2018 330i has a curb weight of 3410 lbs (more weight!), has a 2.0 liter turbo charged inline 4 engine (smaller engine!), and is rated at 24 city/34 highway. That's a 6 MPG improvement in a heavier car thanks to a smaller engine.

I'm sure there's some weight shedding going on, but the increased fuel economy comes from going to smaller engines more than shedding weight. Especially with so much focus on safety.

EPA says 1% increase per 100 pounds but the industry I talk to say 2-3%.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/driveHabits.jsp

[pr0ner]

That's a lot of weight you have to drop to see any sort of measurable fuel efficiency, though.

[noxiousdog]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

The whole CAFE standards are bad joke. It was *supposed to* reduce gas usage, but as with pretty much every government mandate ever in the history of always, it did nothing of the sort. It did, however, increase the cost of vehicles (money out of your pocket) and produce yet another taxpayer dollar sucking bureaucracy in Washington.

I don't think that's accurate. See section: Effect on automotive fuel economy.

[coopasonic]

If Ford is going to add a new Lincoln sedan, I guess it fits in with what I read that the luxury sedan market is still doing okay.

Where have you seen anything about a new Lincoln sedan?

[pr0ner]

If Ford is going to add a new Lincoln sedan, I guess it fits in with what I read that the luxury sedan market is still doing okay.

Where have you seen anything about a new Lincoln sedan?

My bad, I misread Lawbeef's quote to mean that they were going to make a new sedan, forgetting the Aviator is actually an SUV.

[DD*]

If Ford is going to add a new Lincoln sedan, I guess it fits in with what I read that the luxury sedan market is still doing okay.

Where have you seen anything about a new Lincoln sedan?

My bad, I misread Lawbeef's quote to mean that they were going to make a new sedan, forgetting the Aviator is actually an SUV.

They did just come out with the Continental, and I believe (don't quote me) that they have another, larger sedan in the pipeline. That would go along with 4 SUVs (MKC, MKX/Nautilus, Aviator - Explorer-based, and Navigator)

[gameoverman]

I read some time back that Porsche was saved by their SUV sales. I read that if they had to depend on 911 sales, and other sports car models, they'd have gone under long ago. Even now I think they sell more SUVs than all other models combined. PORSCHE!

So it's no surprise to me that regular car manufacturers might see the same thing. There are only so many buyers who want coupes and sedans. Unless you have the top quality car, the cheapest car, or the best value car, you will be the odd one out. In my entire life Ford has always been in consideration for trucks or Mustangs by the people I've known. I can't remember a time when anyone I knew thought Ford cars were good, besides the Mustang.

[Isgrimnur]

WSJ sales data

[Daehawk]

Model T, black.

True story - I learned to drive a standard on a Model T when I worked at Greenfield Village when I was but a lad. Double clutching and the whole nine yards. Let us say that vehicles in general were a bit more... elemental back in the day.

Not to even mention where the throttle is or reverse.

[Kasey Chang]

Basically, Ford is conceding the car market to the imports. Ford made it through the lean years when GM went bankrupt and Chrysler had to be bought out, but after that, they seem to have lost the rudder. This drastic change in manufacturing seems a bit excessive, IMHO.

[DD*]

Basically, Ford is conceding the car market to the imports. Ford made it through the lean years when GM went bankrupt and Chrysler had to be bought out, but after that, they seem to have lost the rudder. This drastic change in manufacturing seems a bit excessive, IMHO.

Every SUV Ford makes, with the exception of the Expedition/Navigator, is based a "car" platform. Restyling and building with a traditional sedan body would cost a fraction of engineering a new vehicle. Vehicles these days are not designed and built like they were 40 years ago, or even 20. The "Taurus" platform, for example, unpins the Taurus, Flex, Edge, and Explorer. The same powertrain is used in all, as are most of the drive components. There are no longer (for the most part) separate car and truck engines and transmissions - the percent of shared pieces across model lines is astronomical compared to how things used to be build.

So Ford is dropping nameplates and bodystyles (in the US, mind). They will continue to be sold in other markets where this demand, and if 'Murica decides in a couple of years that they want sedans again it will be a relatively short cycle to build new ones.

[Kasey Chang]

I know cross-overs are basically higher cars, but it's still weird to find a Ford with no "cars".

[Apollo]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

The whole CAFE standards are bad joke. It was *supposed to* reduce gas usage, but as with pretty much every government mandate ever in the history of always, it did nothing of the sort...

Source?

[Pyperkub]

I thought the Fusion was doing well for them, I'm a bit surprised at that. I'm also still waiting for the family size convertibles to come back.

[Pyperkub]

I wonder if Detroit would be going away from sedans if they had to keep to the Obama administration's fuel standards rather than whatever the Trump admin is going to roll them back to.

The whole CAFE standards are bad joke. It was *supposed to* reduce gas usage, but as with pretty much every government mandate ever in the history of always, it did nothing of the sort...

Source?

Well, part of it is that CAFE standards are higher for cars than light trucks (which includes SUVs), and that has been a factor in the change to SUVs over the past couple of decades.

[DD*]

I know cross-overs are basically higher cars, but it's still weird to find a Ford with no "cars".

If people were buying them, there would still be cars.

[JCC]

Canada is a bit of a different market than the US, and I could see FoMoCo still selling some car models up there. The next Focus will be built in China and could be easily imported if there is a market.

I believe the Ford announcement was for the whole of North America - not just the US.

[LordMortis]

I know cross-overs are basically higher cars, but it's still weird to find a Ford with no "cars".

If people were buying them, there would still be cars.

+1 though I people were buying Focuses and Fusions as far as I know. There just wasn't the necessary money coming in from the Fusion and Focus, even selling incredibly well, made no real money for the company. While market share is important, the bottom line is what it eventually comes down to. You can't get someone to pay $20,000+ for a new Focus. So what do you do?

I'm still not thrilled with losing either model among other and I think this has the potential to bite Ford badly in the ass the next time gas stays above the $3 a gallon for anything approaching an extended period of time.