Chloe Dykstra, Chris Hardwick in She Said/He Said

[noxiousdog]

I'm trying to follow here...

Are you all saying that cinema has a responsibility to not be creepy as people will behave inappropriately after watching?
or
Creepy cinema is recognized as creepy?
or
other?

[Blackhawk]

One of my favorites as a kid was Revenge of the Nerds. I've actually got a copy of it on DVD, but it is one of the few favorites of my childhood that I'll never show my kids. What was hilarious in the early 80s is horrifying now.

Molly Ringwald wrote an excellent article back in April, revisiting "The Breakfast Club" through today's societal lens. I'd highly recommend giving it a look.

Thanks for that.

[GreenGoo]

I'm trying to follow here...

Are you all saying that cinema has a responsibility to not be creepy as people will behave inappropriately after watching?
or
Creepy cinema is recognized as creepy?
or
other?

Other.

[hepcat]

I'm trying to follow here...

Are you all saying that cinema has a responsibility to not be creepy as people will behave inappropriately after watching?
or
Creepy cinema is recognized as creepy?
or
other?

No, we're discussing the fact that sensibilities change over time and what once was considered innocent can take on new meanings as society changes. I don't watch Birth of a Nation now and say, "Well, the Klan truly are heroes!". But if I watched it when it was released, I may very well have thought that...and been in the majority.

[ImLawBoy]

And I'll still watch Sixteen Candles or The Breakfast Club when they come on the air (and I have DVDs of those somewhere in the basement), but I'll cringe through the creepier parts. I think, as others have noted, that this is just commentary on how sensibilities have changed (and probably for the better here).

To tie it into the original discussion, Hardwick's alleged behavior probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow 20 or even 10 years ago. Sensibilities have changed, and people are looking at it differently. There's obviously some debate about it still, but it's probably a good discussion to have.

[hepcat]

I also think 10 or 20 years ago, Dykstra wouldn't have written that article...or if she had, she would have been immediately discounted as simply "emotional". I think we're seeing women feeling more and more empowered. I just hope that empowerment isn't abused by some who would use it for petty revenge or something (not saying this is an example, just stating a general fear).

[stessier]

I haven't been following this thread closely, so I'm sorry if this is a repost. Apparently Chris' breakup text to Chloe was leaked and TMZ got it..

I don't know what to believe. That text sounds like the Chris in the podcasts. He has talked extensively about going through therapy and having many issues to deal with. On the podcasts, he appears to have empathy for others and knows how his actions can effect their lives. He talked about working on getting out of his "work mode" while dating Lydia (Hearst - now wife) and part of why they worked is she knew to give him 30 minutes or an hour after getting home some days to unwind before trying to do things so he could get out of his head. He's also talked about how the industry objectifies women and how it sucks. It's hard to picture him as a cackling manipulative abuser.

I wonder how much of it is the Obi-Wan thing - it's all the truth - from a certain point of view. The crummy part is that we'll probably never know.

[Skinypupy]

I haven't been following this thread closely, so I'm sorry if this is a repost. Apparently Chris' breakup text to Chloe was leaked and TMZ got it..

I don't know what to believe. That text sounds like the Chris in the podcasts. He has talked extensively about going through therapy and having many issues to deal with. On the podcasts, he appears to have empathy for others and knows how his actions can effect their lives. He talked about working on getting out of his "work mode" while dating Lydia (Hearst - now wife) and part of why they worked is she knew to give him 30 minutes or an hour after getting home some days to unwind before trying to do things so he could get out of his head. He's also talked about how the industry objectifies women and how it sucks. It's hard to picture him as a cackling manipulative abuser.

I wonder how much of it is the Obi-Wan thing - it's all the truth - from a certain point of view. The crummy part is that we'll probably never know.

I saw these last night, and am struggling to reconcile them with her story. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, I suppose, but they sure don't fit together very well.

Perhaps his message was just another part of the "abuse" and was only intended to emotionally manipulate her? I have no goddamn idea at this point, and don't think I'm going to devote many more brain cells to it.

[stessier]

Perhaps his message was just another part of the "abuse" and was only intended to emotionally manipulate her?

It can certainly be read that way. If you've listened to him for a few hundred hours, though, you'd have a different impression (imo).

[Skinypupy]

Perhaps his message was just another part of the "abuse" and was only intended to emotionally manipulate her?

It can certainly be read that way. If you've listened to him for a few hundred hours, though, you'd have a different impression (imo).

I would imagine so. I don't know either of these people from Adam though. I vaguely remember him from an old G4 show (?), and have never heard of her.

My main impression is that this sounds mostly like a couple of people I wouldn't ever want to have anything to do with.

[stessier]

I would imagine so. I don't know either of these people from Adam though. I vaguely remember him from an old G4 show (?)

He was on G4. Not sure if it's the guy you are picturing though. (Also on Singled Out with Jenny McCarthy if that was ever your jam.)

[Daehawk]

Jenny &(I^*&$%*&

As for him you may know him from The Talking Dead.

[gameoverman]

I saw these last night, and am struggling to reconcile them with her story. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, I suppose, but they sure don't fit together very well.

Perhaps his message was just another part of the "abuse" and was only intended to emotionally manipulate her? I have no goddamn idea at this point, and don't think I'm going to devote many more brain cells to it.

I don't know, it sounds pretty consistent with what she wrote. She says he sexually assaulted her, so why wouldn't she text 'You will always be my favorite person"?

[tjg_marantz]

Daehawk and Blackhawk need to get more separate names. I can't tell which is the sane one and which is the obtuse one.

I think I've got it but still...

Make sure you let me know. I have no idea.

You're fine.

[RuperT]

Look, if she had posted what she posted and everyone surrounding them said that there was no basis in reality, Hardwick would still have a gig. Instead, pretty much everyone around them agreed that he's a controlling asshole. If she were nuts and there was no basis in reality how likely would that be?

Do you have a link for any of these specific complaints from Hardwick’s peers? They’ve been presented as proof several times now, but I haven’t found anything particularly damning.

Here's one. I'm on a horrible wifi connection in a hospital so my search ability is limited.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/ ... spartanntp

Thanks for taking the time. I still see a mostly bootstrapped narrative (like its more likely true because he’s a workaholic, or because Hardwick is allegedly losing blue checked followers, per the alt-right seeming “tech journalist” Cheong in the article, whose twitter reveals a real animus towards Hardwick, Wheaton, and other “fake feminists”).
The larger issue to me isn’t a person’s ability to post a highly curated screed on how they were wronged, but now they’re doing GRRR-EAT! The larger issue is giving corporate media control of the Good Person branding with some expectation of responsibility or moral authority.
This dovetails into yesteryear’s Hollywood sexism, I think. We “believe” what we see on TV more and more; we take it with less salt. The artifice isn’t as apparent, and they’re only getting better. This can be good (people of differing sexuality or ethnicity aren’t alien) or not as good (cops are highly conscientious while having an intuitive and nearly infallible ‘sense’ of who’s a bad guy). I don’t think we internalized things we saw on screen as much, or expected them to have an important message, or subvert a paradigm. Or maybe we did, but we had less motivation and fewer outlets to express how just they affected us.
We’re a little neurotic these days, trying to go about our day with our mouths and ears all taped together. How far will we take it? Truly interesting times.

[gameoverman]

People, in the general sense, have always believed what they were told. It's easier for one thing. To try and figure out what's going may require effort. You might have to actually read what someone wrote, or watch the movie they made, or listen to the music and lyrics, or study the photograph...whatever it takes.

OR you can simply listen to what people are saying, people you side with of course, and accept that as an accurate depiction. The time you saved can then be spent on something else.

With the amount of information we get these days, that effect is magnified. There might be twenty things a person has a big interest in, but that person might only have time to spend on five of them. What of the other fifteen? Well, just find what side your people are on and join that one.

[stessier]

I saw these last night, and am struggling to reconcile them with her story. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, I suppose, but they sure don't fit together very well.

Perhaps his message was just another part of the "abuse" and was only intended to emotionally manipulate her? I have no goddamn idea at this point, and don't think I'm going to devote many more brain cells to it.

I don't know, it sounds pretty consistent with what she wrote. She says he sexually assaulted her, so why wouldn't she text 'You will always be my favorite person"?

Because victims of abuse frequently do that? All you have to do is watch an episode of Cops to see real life examples.

[Matrix]

And pendulum continues to swing. And it will get worse.

The price of coming out against bad and willing relationship is extra publicity and public pity and spotlight, and price for the other side is everything.

This is not she said, he said. This is , she said and you screwed, regardless of what you say next. Guilty until proven innocent, and in his case they didnt stop to double check, within first few days all projects pretty much burned him at stake.

She is willingly in relationship, and she admits it, but you still get burned at the stake for one side of the story.

[tjg_marantz]

Oh just fuck off you Neanderthal.

[hepcat]

Well...I thought everyone made a good point until now.

[pr0ner]

There's the toxic Red Pill and PUA mentality all coming home to roost in one terribly unsurprising post.

[Fireball]

And people found it surprising when nerd culture and the GamerGate movement turned out to be the chrysalis in which the American Nazi alt-right was formed.

[AWS260]

Oh just fuck off you Neanderthal.

I endorse this sentiment.

[Alefroth]

Well...I thought everyone made a good point until now.

That's weird, his point isn't much different than some already made.

[McNutt]

Yeah, I haven't liked the responses to his reply. The court of public opinion moves fast with these cases and if you play Devil's Advocate you can make a case that Hardwick is being vilified with a knee-jerk reaction. It's a reasonable point as this is most certainly not a black and white case. However, Matrix is being blasted for making it. I know, I know. He has a history of not being the most progressive when it comes to women. Still, he doesn't really deserve that reaction.

[hepcat]

Well...I thought everyone made a good point until now.

That's weird, his point isn't much different than some already made.

There's questioning her motives/veracity in an attempt to get both sides of the story, then there's outright calling her a lying b word. I think everyone up until matrix was in the former (although I haven't read through the thread THAT closely).

[Alefroth]

Well...I thought everyone made a good point until now.

That's weird, his point isn't much different than some already made.

There's questioning her motives/veracity in an attempt to get both sides of the story, then there's outright calling her a lying b word. I think everyone up until matrix was in the former (although I haven't read through the thread THAT closely).

Where does he say she is lying? He's saying Hardwick is being strung up based solely on her word, not that she isn't being truthful.

Curse you for making me side with Matrix, but I don't see why others get a pass for saying the same thing he is.

[hepcat]

I can't help you if you've reached the conclusion that Matrix was trying to make a valid point and not spewing misogynistic crap all over the place.

[Alefroth]

I can't help you if you've reached th conclusion that Matrix was trying to make a valid point and not spewing misogynistic crap all over the place.

I know that's what he's doing, but I'm able to see he isn't alone.

[hepcat]

Good for you, I guess. I'll continue to believe in fairness when these accusations are made.

[GreenGoo]

Matrix isn't operating in a vacuum. He has a long posting history and in that context I don't think tjg is out of line.

That he duped lonely people out of their cash just so they could receive questionable advice regarding relationships is particularly off-putting to me.

As a professional dating coach, Matrix is one of the few people I've identified that ignoring everything they say about their area of expertise is the right thing to do.

People can be as uncomfortable about the responses to Matrix as they like. I probably would have worded it differently but I can't disagree with tjg's sentiment.

[GreenGoo]

Curse you for making me side with Matrix, but I don't see why others get a pass for saying the same thing he is.

The answer is posting history.

If I ask you how your mom is doing, is that a sincere inquiry or a taunt?

A). We've had many sincere conversations about the health of your mother.
B). I've spent weeks talking about nailing your mom.

For Matrix, many of us know exactly what he thinks about these things because he's told us over and over and over

[Alefroth]

Curse you for making me side with Matrix, but I don't see why others get a pass for saying the same thing he is.

The answer is posting history.

Exactly, but it seems like you think I'm not taking that into account.

A wise person once said-

Jesus Christ this thread.

And this board is the enlightened part of society.

Please look at the names beside the comments please. They are the same ones as ever. And to be fair, no accusation should be taken at face value just because it was made.

[Matrix]

lol enjoyable read, first of I worked with men and women, so I got both perspectives. Second, those 'poor saps' as you put it, were often some very smart people. Professors, business owners, etc. So you just seeing through your own lense, smart people don't just give you money for nothing.
You can fully disregard my point of view, and you are corret I haven't changed my stance but my stance is not pro women or men, I purely looking at circumstance and filter bs that often permeates discussion . What changed is that some people starting to see where i was coming from.

Matrix isn't operating in a vacuum. He has a long posting history and in that context I don't think tjg is out of line.

That he duped lonely people out of their cash just so they could receive questionable advice regarding relationships is particularly off-putting to me.

As a professional dating coach, Matrix is one of the few people I've identified that ignoring everything they say about their area of expertise is the right thing to do.

People can be as uncomfortable about the responses to Matrix as they like. I probably would have worded it differently but I can't disagree with tjg's sentiment.

[gameoverman]

lol enjoyable read, first of I worked with men and women, so I got both perspectives. Second, those 'poor saps' as you put it, were often some very smart people. Professors, business owners, etc. So you just seeing through your own lense, smart people don't just give you money for nothing.
You can fully disregard my point of view, and you are corret I haven't changed my stance but my stance is not pro women or men, I purely looking at circumstance and filter bs that often permeates discussion . What changed is that some people starting to see where i was coming from.

One thing I've learned from reading this thread is that if adults make decisions that turn out to be mistakes, they are not responsible. Someone else manipulated them or abused them.

So you can see how if you charge someone for a service, and others think the service was of questionable value, YOU are the bad guy in their eyes. The people who came to you and voluntarily paid you? Babes in the woods.

[Isgrimnur]

[noxiousdog]

One thing I've learned from reading this thread is that if adults make decisions that turn out to be mistakes, they are not responsible. Someone else manipulated them or abused them.

So you can see how if you charge someone for a service, and others think the service was of questionable value, YOU are the bad guy in their eyes. The people who came to you and voluntarily paid you? Babes in the woods.

Well duh. See the student loan thread in R&P.

That being said, psychological abuse is different especially when society has a history of permissive abuse against women.

[GreenGoo]

lol enjoyable read, first of I worked with men and women, so I got both perspectives. Second, those 'poor saps' as you put it, were often some very smart people. Professors, business owners, etc. So you just seeing through your own lense, smart people don't just give you money for nothing.
You can fully disregard my point of view, and you are corret I haven't changed my stance but my stance is not pro women or men, I purely looking at circumstance and filter bs that often permeates discussion . What changed is that some people starting to see where i was coming from.

One thing I've learned from reading this thread is that if adults make decisions that turn out to be mistakes, they are not responsible. Someone else manipulated them or abused them.

So you can see how if you charge someone for a service, and others think the service was of questionable value, YOU are the bad guy in their eyes. The people who came to you and voluntarily paid you? Babes in the woods.

If you find yourself agreeing with Matrix regarding relationships, you should probably re-evaluate your stance.

I'm disappointed in you gameoverman, I didn't take you for a moron, but if this is your outlook and this is what you take away from what I said given Matrix"s posting history, well, so be it.

Edit:. I didn't bother (or even read) with Matrix's response as I'm already familiar with the value of his comments in this arena. Your comments were eye-opening however, gameoverman.

[Victoria Raverna]

[Daehawk]

That's a cute dog. And good for her. It won't stop people with nothing better to do from being an ass to her or accusing her of lying and stuff but I'm glad to see she has the nerve and opportunity to speak her side.