Chloe Dykstra, Chris Hardwick in She Said/He Said

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:17 am

Have I said I don't give 2 shits about any of these people yet? Because I don't.

She's happily married. Fantastic.

Not a fan of the dog, either.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:19 am

Not a fan of the dog, either.

Boooooo bad human bad.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:40 am

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:29 pmIf you find yourself agreeing with Matrix regarding relationships, you should probably re-evaluate your stance.

I'm disappointed in you gameoverman, I didn't take you for a moron, but if this is your outlook and this is what you take away from what I said given Matrix"s posting history, well, so be it.

Edit:. I didn't bother (or even read) with Matrix's response as I'm already familiar with the value of his comments in this arena. Your comments were eye-opening however, gameoverman.

I have a vague idea of him being known as a pick up artist/dating coach, can't say I'm familiar with his posts. I try not to hold someone's posts about something else against them in a separate thread about another topic.

I feel it's fair for people to criticize me for my comments here in this thread. By making these comments I accept that people can and will remark on them. I'd feel it was unfair to bring up something I might have posted in another thread on another topic unless it was directly relevant.

"Oh just fuck off you Neanderthal" lol, that's not exactly relevant to this topic or the comment he made. You yourself say you don't disagree with it. But for someone like me, who is taking part in this thread but has no knowledge of whatever outside comments are being referenced, it's not convincing. In fact, it's making Matrix look like the reasonable one and the ones piling on him look like the ones out of order.

noxiousdog says

Well duh. See the student loan thread in R&P.

Exploitation is a real thing, no argument here. But for it to qualify, in my opinion, there needs to be an element of no viable choice. Someone can't leave a marriage because she has no money and no job skills and a couple of kids to support, that's a person with limited viable options. The more independent you are, the more options you have in life, the harder it is to credibly blame exploitation for your problems. At some point they are just your own poor decisions.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:19 am

I truly wish it were that simple. But somehow I don't think it is.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:34 pm

I'll just say again that if you find yourself agreeing with a pickup coach (he knows nothing about relationships. He might know something about exploiting low self esteem) from Russia, you should probably re-evaluate your position.

He's quagmire without the criminal aspects or humour.

GungHo · Post by **GungHo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:54 pm

I think like some of you I'm conflicted about this one. I too know nothing of either one of them save that Hardwick hosted Talking Dead(which I never watched). On the one hand I dislike the coyness of her post by 'naming, but not really naming' her offender. There's zero chance she believed his identity would not be outed in 30 seconds, so why not just say his name? If her goal is a warning for others and a catharsis for herself why not make her post completely anonymous? I also understand that naming her offender has meaning and gives her claims validity that an anonymous post would not.
And while I do see the 'unfairness of it all' that Hardwick has had his career destroyed based off of this, several people have talked about personal responsibility...well if you're going to choose a career in which one 'crazy ex with a vendetta' can destroy your career, don't you have a greater responsibility to not choose a 'crazy gf' in the first place? Or choose a career in which something like this wouldn't destroy you? I know many many people who have had relationship drama play out over social media; many of them worked together and in many of those cases their bosses were aware of the drama. None that I'm aware of lost their jobs and I can think of several that were similar in nature to this conflict and at least one that was much worse. Perhaps that's part of the deal in choosing a career of fame and fortune. The upside is potentially great and so is the downside.

It's all a long way of saying yeah I dunno. I can see both sides and I'm very thankful it's not me or anyone I care about. I do think it's a good conversation to have and it's definitely something I'll talk to my boys about someday.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:31 pm

If you knew your behavior with someone could lead to being outed and a loss of jobs wouldn't you alter your behavior?

I think I have come around to the idea that, for at least that one relationship, both of them were somewhat dysfunctional. And you know what, I really don't care.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:59 pm

Sure he has responsibility. Assuming everything she said was true, he was a real scumbag with her. That's on him. The problem is she isn't claiming he's an asshole, she accused him of a crime, a sex crime no less.

If all she was doing was writing about what a shitty person he is, I'd have no problem with saying it's his own fault. I'm not ready to declare getting accused of rape is the reasonably foreseeable outcome of dating someone, even if that someone is known to have issues. Unless one of those issues is they tend to accuse their exes of sexual assault, then it becomes his fault again.

The coyness of her post goes beyond not technically naming him but outing him anyways. She mentions she has evidence of her claims but then says she's withholding said evidence for his sake! So publicly saying he sexually assaulted her? She's okay with that. Providing the evidence? Hell no, that's going too far, she doesn't want to hurt the guy.

Since I don't know these people either I can only go by what he or she write or say. For me her overall message, 'he sexually assaulted me' is loud and clear. The rest of her writing undercuts it badly. It even directly contradicts it. That's why I feel the way I do about this particular case.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:00 pm

If the reports of his former staffers coming out against him are true, that's enough corroborating evidence to me to feel comfortable about him losing all of his gigs.

My concern was over seeing a knee jerk reaction to an allegation without any other corroborating evidence or testimonies. If others close to him say "yeah...sounds like the douche we know" then by all means obliterate his career until he can make a genuine change somewhere down the line.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:07 pm

msduncan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:00 pm If the reports of his former staffers coming out against him are true, that's enough corroborating evidence to me to feel comfortable about him losing all of his gigs.

My concern was over seeing a knee jerk reaction to an allegation without any other corroborating evidence or testimonies. If others close to him say "yeah...sounds like the douche we know" then by all means obliterate his career until he can make a genuine change somewhere down the line.

That's pretty much my stance on him or anyone else. I don't have to decide on whether he keeps his job based on these accusations, others do. It's up to them to decide whether the ramifications for acting or not acting are acceptable. Acting unwisely has a way of generating consequences for that behaviour.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:06 pm

Asshole much? First of it was dating coach not pick up a big difference in the industry I came from, two I been out of that business for last 4 years. Three I been in a relationship for 2 years now.

You come off as a total ass and cleary taking it way to personal when others disagree with you. I spent years learning about psychology and would wager I know PhD worth on the topic of dating, psychology and commutation. Plus I worked in dating space as matchmaker as well, and at some point I certified coaches and matchmakers. Long story short, you are novice when it comes to psychology and certainly not a moral compass. So ya, I think you wrong and full of yourself.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:34 pm I'll just say again that if you find yourself agreeing with a pickup coach (he knows nothing about relationships. He might know something about exploiting low self esteem) from Russia, you should probably re-evaluate your position.

He's quagmire without the criminal aspects or humour.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:58 pm

msduncan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:00 pm If the reports of his former staffers coming out against him are true, that's enough corroborating evidence to me to feel comfortable about him losing all of his gigs.

My concern was over seeing a knee jerk reaction to an allegation without any other corroborating evidence or testimonies. If others close to him say "yeah...sounds like the douche we know" then by all means obliterate his career until he can make a genuine change somewhere down the line.

Here are the "corroborating evidence or testimonies":

People who know Hardwick believe Dykstra’s claims of his controlling behavior, emotional manipulation and sexual abuse. One former Nerdist employee says: “Nobody’s surprised. Everyone can think back to incidents with Chris that line up with something in that story. You don’t see anybody saying ‘That’s not the Chris Hardwick I know,’ because that is the Chris Hardwick most people know.”

One producer said: “She’s not writing about a complete stranger there, I could recognize him through the details. He’s an alcoholic who replaced his alcoholism with workaholism, and that may have led to just as bad a side effect for people. He wasn’t going out and getting drunk and insulting people, but he was concentrating on the work and building up his empire, not concentrating on how that affected people.”

Another acquaintance says: “I have no reason to think he would be violent, but everything else she says, the way she describes his behavior, sounds like things about him that I absolutely do know to be true. It absolutely rings true.”

How Hardwick behaved when he was with Nerdist: “He was an absentee landlord,” said the former Nerdist employee, who described Hardwick as increasingly focused on outside projects like AMC’s “Talking Dead” or other high-profile hosting gigs. “He wasn’t around except to call in to beat up on us. But he made sure our successes always got painted as his work.” But when Hardwick was around, he would sometimes explode at staff when they made decisions he believed to be inconsistent with his public-facing brand, insiders said.

So those were testimonies from 1 former employee, 1 producer, and 1 other acquaintance. They just painted a picture of someone that is not that nice and focus on his work.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:05 pm

Matrix wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:06 pm Asshole much?

I haven't even begun.

We aren't friends, I don't like you and I think your view of women and relationships is harmful. (edit: harmful to both men and women).

Better?

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:37 pm

Oh, i dont care if you like me or not, just dont narrate my story for me. You are not that good at it. There is a difference between internal narration and external reality.

I dont really share much experience in my former practice, but i will do it for some external narration. About 8 years ago, we had a early 30s year old divorced and successful man came in, sharing that it has been few years since he is divorced (amicable divorce, so him and his wife stayed friends) and he is from country where dating doesn't exist, you get married right away.

Him being thrown into US dating market, was basically a torture, as he he couldn't make heads of tails of, didnt know how to even start thinking of dating and he spent few years in that state. He found my team, and went through coaching. Within few month he was in a happy (according to him) relationship with girl he really clicked. His wife of about the same age, had same issue, since she just didnt know dating customs, a year or so after he did coaching, and now happily in relationship , he refereed his wife to work with my team. She gotten into relationship within few month of coaching, and as far as i know still with the guy. And this example while unusual (both husband and wife getting assistance), is underlines what most clients wanted. Be able to a) get gf or bf and find a right person, but if you dont know where to start. It can be very hard.
The husband refereed a number of his friends male and female to us over the years.

So feel free to hate me all day long, but don't push your internal narration on me.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:43 pm

I have no idea what my internal narrative is. My knowledge of you is based solely on your posts on OO. Things you've shared voluntarily. It was like watching someone proud that they have gonorrhea.

That alone made me question your judgment in general.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:42 pm

This attitude that it's okay to openly hate on Matrix because of his past career really irritates me. I might not always agree with Matrix, but I have nothing against him personally. Yet I see so many people attack him instead of his argument. That's not what this place is about. There are several people here (whose presence I enjoy quite a bit) that need to take that to heart.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:53 pm

Welp I know thats not me cause I dont attack anyone outright until Im attacked enough to piss me off. I agree about what you said though.

This thread has degenerated to the point where its hurting OO instead of being about the 2 losers it started as. I dont know or care for either other them..especially her for some reason.....so why not just end this discussion?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:56 pm

McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:42 pm This attitude that it's okay to openly hate on Matrix because of his past career really irritates me. I might not always agree with Matrix, but I have nothing against him personally. Yet I see so many people attack him instead of his argument. That's not what this place is about. There are several people here (whose presence I enjoy quite a bit) that need to take that to heart.

I don't hate him. I dislike him greatly. I dislike him greatly because he is a misogynist prick who not only is a misogynist prick but peddled his neolithic views to others who were looking for help better understanding women and connecting with them in a meaningful way.

Sorry if you thought my dislike for Matrix was career related. It's him personally and his viewpoint that I have a problem with.

Hopefully that clears it up and reduces your irritation. I don't like Matrix because I find his views sexist, opportunistic and harmful.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:40 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:53 pm Welp I know thats not me cause I dont attack anyone outright until Im attacked enough to piss me off. I agree about what you said though.

.....so why not just end this discussion?

Why not just stay out of it?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:43 pm

GreenGoo's feelings about Matrix mirror my own. It's not his career that I hold against him (well, it is kind of), it's how he feels manipulating women is a normal part of the dating process.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:34 am

I think some of you attacking Matrix need to filter in the fact his culture and nuance of English is significantly different from yours touched with a degree of arrogance.

He does generalize too much on biology and ignores culture exacerbating the system, while others want to blame everything on culture and ignore biology. The reality is there's a lot of variation and we should be using culture to overcome the biology.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:55 am

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:34 am I think some of you attacking Matrix need to filter in the fact his culture and nuance of English is significantly different from yours touched with a degree of arrogance.

Already done. If he were not a barbarian from a barbarous country I might be unpleasant to him.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:07 am

If by biology you mean that men and women want to fuck, well, duh. If you mean something else like biological needs influencing choices, well, duh again.

Biology is only part of the equation, and if I remember your background correctly, you probably understand that better than most.

Human relationships can be so much more than of a transactional nature. Connecting with another person, especially a mate, can and should be a spiritual (in the atheist sense) experience. People should be spending time learning how to connect with each other, not learning how to convince someone to say yes when asked on a date.

If you just want to fuck (not you specifically here ND) then go to a bar and start asking women if they want to fuck. Eventually one will say yes and then Bob's your Uncle. Sure you're a creep and the whole situation is ugly, but at least it's honest, which is more than I can say for Matrix's coaching.

That's how I view Matrix's approach, but with more manipulation/games and almost no focus on the individual you're trying to "date" or actual interpersonal connection.

Lastly, typically the kind of person who is looking for a relationship coach has trouble connecting with people. If they didn't, they'd have no problem getting dates. Instead of getting help in this area, Matrix's "service" was about getting people to say yes, and that really gets under my skin. In no way is the individual becoming a better person or going to have better relationships, they're just learning how to still be alone in the universe but with someone to put their dick in. If you're gonna pay money to improve yourself, you should probably expect more than the same result you can get from hiring someone from the oldest profession.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:12 pm

What I mean is that estrogen and testosterone play a role in our personalities. No matter how much we'd like things to be equal and be logical about jobs, relationships, sports, and everything else, we are different. Yes, there is overlap. Yes, gender is fluid. Yes, we are more alike than different.

That doesn't mean you're entitled to be an ass, nor does it mean consent doesn't apply, nor does it mean one is better.

It does mean we should be aware and working as hard as we can to make sure that culture doesn't exacerbate our hormonal influences.

I was told by someone very smart that what happens in the bedroom is entirely separate from outside the bedroom. However, it would be ridiculous to think that doesn't spill over into initial attraction and dating.

I totally agree that a communication coach is of more value than a pick-up artist, and that despite his protestations, Matrix is closer to the pick-up artist side of the spectrum.

What this has to do with the OP I have no idea, so if we want to continue the role of biology in relationships I suggest a new thread. It is an interesting topic.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:15 pm

McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:42 pm This attitude that it's okay to openly hate on Matrix because of his past career really irritates me. I might not always agree with Matrix, but I have nothing against him personally. Yet I see so many people attack him instead of his argument. That's not what this place is about. There are several people here (whose presence I enjoy quite a bit) that need to take that to heart.

Agreed. Keep personal attacks out of this or I'm shutting this thread down.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:28 pm

Anyway, back on topic.

I liked this post on instagram from one of Hardwick's old girlfriends:

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:28 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:15 pm
McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:42 pm This attitude that it's okay to openly hate on Matrix because of his past career really irritates me. I might not always agree with Matrix, but I have nothing against him personally. Yet I see so many people attack him instead of his argument. That's not what this place is about. There are several people here (whose presence I enjoy quite a bit) that need to take that to heart.
Agreed. Keep personal attacks out of this or I'm shutting this thread down.

Thanks.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:29 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:28 pm Anyway, back on topic.

I liked this post on instagram from one of Hardwick's old girlfriends:

There have always been different levls of burden of proof for criminal convictions (court of law) than for losing your job or reputation or being shamed (court of public opinion).

Also, when you say you "liked" it, are you saying you enjoyed it or you click some "like" icon?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:31 pm

I don't press buttons on any social sites. I'm never sure what the hell that does. You kids today...with all your "liking" and "thumbs up". In my day, you called them on the rotary dial phone and you told 'em "Good job!" and then hung up.

No, I merely meant it was something I felt was thoughtful.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:33 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:31 pm I don't press buttons on any social sites. I'm never sure what the hell that does. You kids today...with all your "liking" and "thumbs up". In my day, you called them on the rotary dial phone and you told 'em "Good job!" and then hung.

No, I merely meant it was something I felt was thoughtful.

Thank goodness. I thought I'd lost you.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:35 pm

I update my facebook page like once every two weeks. And usually then only to tell LordMortis that his fear of cream cheese is irrational or something.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:43 pm

The guy's lack of support among co-workers/business partners doesn't say anything to me.

Here's a scenario that could explain this: My work is closely tied to John Smith. Another guy gets embroiled in a scandal. John Smith publicly cuts his ties to that guy. I happen to know that other guy well enough that I have some supportive things to say about him. Do I say them publicly? Hell no. My income, my family's income, is tied to John Smith and he's already painted that guy as persona non grata. So I stay quiet.

Meanwhile, this other co-worker never liked that guy to begin with. So he takes this opportunity to talk trash about him, getting payback AND scoring points with John Smith.

So how can I take support, or the lack of it, as an indicator of anything?

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:10 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:15 pm
McNutt wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:42 pm This attitude that it's okay to openly hate on Matrix because of his past career really irritates me. I might not always agree with Matrix, but I have nothing against him personally. Yet I see so many people attack him instead of his argument. That's not what this place is about. There are several people here (whose presence I enjoy quite a bit) that need to take that to heart.
Agreed. Keep personal attacks out of this or I'm shutting this thread down.

Instead of closing the thread, why not just ban the ones that are making personal attacks? Either from the forum or from the thread?

Why close a whole thread down because of the fault of a few?

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:21 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:28 pm Anyway, back on topic.

I liked this post on instagram from one of Hardwick's old girlfriends:

This ex girlfriend dated Hardwick for 4 years.

https://hollywoodreporter.com/news/jaci ... ck-1123318

"This past week I have watched someone I once loved and shared four years of my life with be publicly accused of misconduct and abuse, then swiftly fired and shunned," she wrote in a caption that ended with Hardwick's Instagram handle and "#chrishardwick." "The accuser’s story bears no resemblance to the one I shared with him all those years ago, but what is of supreme importance here is that every woman and every man deserves a voice. Accuser and Accused. Everyone deserves to be heard. A rush to judgement denies the right to due process; the Metoo movement deserves due process."

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:33 pm

Lol, are you fucking kidding me?

What personal attacks? Neanderthal? We're not allowed to tell people we don't like them and itemize the reasons now?

Edit:. Barbarian?

Edit:. Wait, you're suggesting banning matrix for calling me an asshole? If my opinion matters I say don't do it. I can certainly stand being called an asshole. Hopefully he can stand being called a neanderthal.

Edit:. Misogynistic prick, found it.

I'll apologize if he does for calling me an asshole first.

GuidoTKP · Post by **GuidoTKP** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:24 pm

I'm interested in the Chris Hardwick/Chloe Dykstra story. I'll just chime in that I couldn't give a rat's ass about GreenGoo's and Matrix's slap fight with each other, which is not part of the description for this topic, but is somehow now dominating most of the bandwidth on this page. Perhaps you guys should get each other Twitter handles? I'm pretty sure that's where you are supposed to go to shit on people you don't like. At least, that's what the President has taught me ....

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:03 pm

I'll just point out that if people would stop telling me how unfair I'm being, I would have stopped after my second comment. There were, after all, 3 or 4 comments re: Matrix prior to my involvement.

You're number...well, I'm not sure what number at this point, but people sure seem to be commenting about it a lot. If you want a to bring a thread back on topic, the best way is to simply talk about the original topic. No one is stopping you.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:39 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:33 pm Lol, are you fucking kidding me?

What personal attacks? Neanderthal? We're not allowed to tell people we don't like them and itemize the reasons now?

Edit:. Barbarian?

Edit:. Wait, you're suggesting banning matrix for calling me an asshole? If my opinion matters I say don't do it. I can certainly stand being called an asshole. Hopefully he can stand being called a neanderthal.

Edit:. Misogynistic prick, found it.

I'll apologize if he does for calling me an asshole first.

I suggested rather than punishing everyone who have interest in this thread by closing it, maybe it is better to stop you and maybe Matrix to post in it if according to moderator, your posts are problem.

I'm happy with no ban and no thread closing.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:01 am

Just like any other thread on OO ever, it'll stay on topic or not based on peoples' participation in it. This is normal and appropriate. The only time it becomes a problem is when someone gets annoyed at people not talking about what they want to talk about. Ask tjg how I feel about that, if you care to. There is no requirement on OO requiring people to discuss what you want to discuss. We have had a number of serial derailers and any actions taken against them was after a long history and deep contemplation by the moderator community.

Based on over a decade of precedent, there isn't a problem to solve. The idea that the thread needs closing is laughable. That people are contemplating bans over a single use of the word prick or asshole is also bizarrely inappropriate. A warning *at best* if there is a lot of complaining about personal attacks. I've seen much, much worse pass without a murmur. Not liking someone and explaining why has never been an actionable event. Being irritated by something someone posted is usually met with "tough shit". I find a number of things in this thread irritating. Tough shit to me as well.

Feel free to talk about Hardwick. The only thing stopping you is you.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:15 am

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:12 pm What this has to do with the OP I have no idea, so if we want to continue the role of biology in relationships I suggest a new thread. It is an interesting topic.

Thanks for the response ND. If that thread ever comes into existence I'll see you there. Not motivated enough to start it myself however.