Fear of flying

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:04 pm

Anyone here completely and utterly paralyzed at the thought of flying?
To the point where it is unfathomable to even consider it?
I've flown a few times. First time was fine, but the other 2 times were nightmares. Turbulence, delays to the point of freaking out.
You ever seen those people that get dragged off of planes? I was this close to being one of them.

So here's the rub. My daughter is moving 2000 miles away this Wed.
She knows my situation and is way too upset at the thought I'll never visit her.
I want to and I will. The choice comes down to a 36 hour train ride or to somehow get on a plane.
I've tried talking to therapists. I have access to drugs, but am afraid they wont be enough to overcome my fear or that they will make me a walking zombie and these days they wont let you on a plane if you're incoherent.

I have no problem with the train ride, other than the huge increase in time and cost. but I cant see any other way. Driving is just plain out of the question.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:12 pm

I don't fly often and have only had one rough experience but I know I don't look forward to flying. My oldest daughter has flown with us once and seemed alright but during a flight to Miami with friends apparently had a really rough time.

We took a flight that had probably two dozen Coast Guard cadets on it once, they all took sleeping aids and slept thru the whole flight. I thought that was kinda weird.

I don't think you mention where you would be training from and to but that wouldn't be too bad if you had the time. As I understand it you are allowed to get off the trains and sight see if you wish and then reboard another train. A friend of mine took the Amtrak going up the west coast that way.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:22 pm

It would be on the Southwest Chief, catching it in Chicago and taking it to Kingman AZ.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:23 pm

I dread flying as a miserable experience and I avoid it whenever possible, but I don't fear it. I'm taking the Acela down to Annapolis on Thursday.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 pm

My wife has a fear of flying...actually, let me correct that, she has a fear of falling which is exacerbated by flying. When we do fly, she prefers to sit in the middle of three seats if available or the aisle if not.

A few years back we spent a week in St Thomas in the Virgin Islands. To get there required an island hopper flight from Puerto Rico and I was absolutely dreading her reaction to flying in such a small plane. This was made worse since, due to weight balancing, we were unable to sit next to each other and were forced to fly with a row between us.

Since I was unable to communicate with her during the flight I had to wait until we landed to get her reaction and it surprised me. She said that because she could actually see what was going on around and in front of the plane during the flight that she wasn't bothered at all.

None of this is applicable to your situation really so...there ya go.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:17 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:04 pmI have access to drugs, but am afraid they wont be enough to overcome my fear or that they will make me a walking zombie and these days they wont let you on a plane if you're incoherent.

This is true, so what I'd recommend is you get access to the drugs long before you anticipate flying and figure out the dosage that makes sense based on advice and guidance from the doctor prescribing it. I have family members that are also paralyzed at the idea of flight and (I think) take a measured amount of Xanax. In speaking with them, they've told me it just "takes the edge off" (whatever that means) and allows them to fly without feeling panicked or anxious. I don't get the impression they're popping them like tic-tacs and zombified to the point of being incapacitated. Perhaps in time (after frequent trips), you'll find the need for such things to diminish. Good luck - it sounds like a stressful situation.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:20 pm

To get over it you need to fly in a Huey sitting in the doorway with your legs hanging down.
It's very relaxing.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:27 pm

I love flying and always have.

Back in Elementary and Junior High, my friend's dad (who had been an Air Force pilot in Vietnam) was the chief pilot for a large construction company with projects all over the South. As the hanger boss, he had full use of the company's aircraft, and he would occasionally take the kids up in a helicopter or prop plane and fly us around the city or the region.

My friend and his date arrived for the Junior Prom via helicopter landing on the football field.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:46 pm

When I was a kid, I loved flying. I loved airports, airplane food, everything. Now I can't stand going to airports and the security theater bullshit. I still like the actual flying part but unless I get the offer of a private plane and can get a car right to the tarmac (which, sadly happens like once a decade), I avoid flying as much as possible.

But if I'm being honest, last time I flew, I had a touch of anxiety. Not sure why, mostly I was worried about the kids at home if the thing dropped out if the sky.

My daughter is moving 2000 miles away this Wed.

Best of luck to her. And you.

That sentence made me think of this:

"It's very far.."

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:54 pm

As someone who flies cross-country every other week(ish), flying has become just another part of my commute. I get in such a routine (when to leave the house, where to park in the lot, which security gate to go through, which lines to avoid, etc.) that I sometimes forget how stressful it can be for people who don't travel all the time. I usually get on the plane first (yay, status!), throw on my noise cancelling headphones and simply ignore everyone and everything for the next 4-5 hours.

I always feel bad for people who get travel anxiety, because I have no idea what to say or do that would help...as I've proven by this post.

Xmann · Post by **Xmann** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:48 pm

clonazepam 1mg

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:06 pm

This wont help your fear of flying but in the 1800s the train was to commuters and travelers what the airplane is to us. It was so amazing for them to make such speed and get to somewhere in days instead of weeks or months.

Anyways flying. Last time I was even at an airport was in the 1990s. Picking up pets. As a kid in the early 80s dad would take me to the airport to watch planes land and eat at the food place there. I loved planes and loved to watch them he thought I wanted to go on one. I have a HUGE fear of heights that Ive kept in check as best i could in my life. I used to love being in tall buildings or on a house roof. But the day he took me to fly we passed the small Cessna type planes and one started its engine and that was that. No way was I getting in one. It wouldn't be until around 1985 when my neighbor who had trained and got his license asked me if I wanted to fly up state and back that I went.

It was amazing. The take off was scary...like an endless up a roller coaster lift hill. And it was a bit bumpy but wow that view.I even asked for a loop but he couldn't do it. But did say "I can do this" and dove fast for a few seconds...weeee. In fact when he asked if I wanted to go do touch and goes with him the next year that I jumped to go again. Same fun. Ive never been since and never rode a big jet. My wife has to CA from the east coast and said it was nothing.

I doubt Ill ever do it again though.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:37 pm

I'd suggest looking into the SOAR Fear of Flying Course.

I once knew a colleague with the same paralysing fear of flying you describe, but after completing their course they were able to control their anxiety and flew regularly. So it's definitely worth checking out.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:51 pm

Your brain is pretty much hardwired to keep you safe, and primarily that means keeping you from doing things outside your comfort zone. And even when you intellectually know that something is perfectly safe, your brain can do a damn fine job of convincing you it's not. Getting over my fear of roller coasters was in large part learning to recognize that my instinctual fear did not translate into actual danger.

I don't fly much at all - maybe once a year or two - so I still get a little anxious before a flight. But I think it's more worry the trappings *around* the flight. Getting to the airport on time, going through security, knowing how boring it's going to be waiting to board, hoping the flight isn't delayed, etc.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:11 pm

I swore off of flying when they started asinine 1-3 hour security lines and the smaller seats set closer together on the airplanes.
I wouldn't hesitate to take a private plane but I can't afford those.
I wish Amtrak was closer.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:59 am

Trains are more dangerous than planes, then again every other mode of transportation is more dangerous than a commercial flight. If you really want to indulge your inner death wish, why not just drive?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:38 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:54 pm As someone who flies cross-country every other week(ish), flying has become just another part of my commute. I get in such a routine (when to leave the house, where to park in the lot, which security gate to go through, which lines to avoid, etc.) that I sometimes forget how stressful it can be for people who don't travel all the time. I usually get on the plane first (yay, status!), throw on my noise cancelling headphones and simply ignore everyone and everything for the next 4-5 hours.

I always feel bad for people who get travel anxiety, because I have no idea what to say or do that would help...as I've proven by this post.

This describes my life as well. I get the anxiety though because people always ask my advice about traveling and I get that all the rules and procedures are confusing.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:23 pm

I don’t have a fear of flying itself, but my anxiety can trigger to near panic levels in situations in which I have to interact with strangers. So the process of flying is anxiety inducing for me. Controlling what I can helps.

If you decide to fly, one thing that can help reduce the stress a lot is TSA precheck. It’s ~$75 I think, you apply online and then schedule an appointment for questions and fingerprints at a major airport.

But once in the program you get to go through a special security line, basically bypassing the long security lines. You can keep your laptop in your bag and keep your shoes on. It saves time and sanity.

I use ridesharing or a cab rather than drive myself as it eliminates the stress of finding a parking spot, waiting for a shuttle and traffic.

I aim to be earlier than I need.

I tend to upgrade to front seats/premium/business whatever I can for more space.

Skinnypuppy’s headphones and ignore everyone I also follow, unless I’m traveling with my wife in which I case I ignore everyone but her

Planning ahead helps me a lot. If I know everything is ready well before I have to go, it reduces my anxiety. However, my wife is a huge planner so I’m sort of riding her coattails on that one.

Some of this does cost extra, not sure what your budget is.

;tldr

I reduce anxiety as much as possible by preparing ahead of time.

For everything else there’s CBT.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:54 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:59 am Trains are more dangerous than planes, then again every other mode of transportation is more dangerous than a commercial flight. If you really want to indulge your inner death wish, why not just drive?

My brain is not wired to stay focused for the amount of time it would take to reasonably drive there. I'd be stopping after every 6-8 hours per day.
Took me 2 days to get to Louisville, KY, and I live in Chicago. Thats 300 miles in 2 days........
Thats a lot of days to get to Las Vegas. I figure on a train I can just veg out and sleep all day if need be.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:36 pm

Fitzy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:23 pm I reduce anxiety as much as possible by preparing ahead of time.

I try to keep it simple. Pack light, make sure I have all the essentials but little else. Everything else can be purchased at the destination if I forget it.

Flexibility helps so my plan is usually to avoid a plan, other than finding the bar closest to the gate. The last few times I have flown I have checked firearms and you're kind of at the mercy of a ton of moving (and often uninformed) parts. Being adaptable and not trying to manage maxed out carry on items is key.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:59 pm

I didn't have a fear of flying, then I developed an intense fear of flying. But I couldn't stand the thought of never going to places I wanted to so I got therapy and that cured it.

I hope things work out for you, being able to stand flying really opens up your world.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:37 pm

Fitzy wrote:I don’t have a fear of flying itself, but my anxiety can trigger to near panic levels in situations in which I have to interact with strangers. So the process of flying is anxiety inducing for me. Controlling what I can helps.

That describes me for nearly every trip, even ones in which I'm not interacting with strangers. I wouldn't say "near panic level" but "extremely uncomfortable." I think it's the fact that I like to have everything planned out in advance and know exactly what's going to happen, and travel (particularly to new places) is almost always a series of unknowns.

I do a lot of Fitzy's suggestions. Controlling what I can control. That includes having hard copy print outs of my itinerary, having directions pre-programmed into my phone, making packing lists. A lot of times I'll even Google street view places I'm going if I've never been there so I'll be somewhat familiar with the layout before I arrive.

Recently I've tried practicing mindfulness (living in the moment) to reduce trip and social anxiety, which has helped a lot. I'm not talking going full on Buddha/New Age with it. Just in terms of learning to steer my thoughts away from the future and focus on the present. Ex: if my mind starts to wander into "I'm going to be gone for four days, I'm really going to miss the kids" territory, I know to refocus on today's activities and not on worries four days in the future.

One thing I have learned that applies to almost any anxiety-producing situation, from roller coasters to social events - 99% of the time, your imagined worries are far worse than actual reality. I probably missed out on dozens of great times and fantastic memories when I was younger by letting my anxiety dictate my actions. I've made a concerted effort to change that in recent years.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:25 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:37 pm Recently I've tried practicing mindfulness (living in the moment) to reduce trip and social anxiety, which has helped a lot. I'm not talking going full on Buddha/New Age with it. Just in terms of learning to steer my thoughts away from the future and focus on the present. Ex: if my mind starts to wander into "I'm going to be gone for four days, I'm really going to miss the kids" territory, I know to refocus on today's activities and not on worries four days in the future.

One thing I have learned that applies to almost any anxiety-producing situation, from roller coasters to social events - 99% of the time, your imagined worries are far worse than actual reality. I probably missed out on dozens of great times and fantastic memories when I was younger by letting my anxiety dictate my actions. I've made a concerted effort to change that in recent years.

Mindfulness was a big part of my CBT and I suspect I’d be nonfunctional by this point instead of trying new things, had I not gotten help. Not that I’m “healed”, but I’m certainly better than I was 15 years ago. I write books now and let other people purchase them and read them. I even went to Europe which would have been impossible, all those people I can’t understand, probably making fun of me right in front of me! No way. Now it was one of the best experiences of my life. It’s sad to think of what I’ve missed out on over the years by simply being afraid.

It’s painfully hard, or at least it was for me, but well worth it to work on anxiety where possible.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:37 pm

I simply do not dwell on that which I cannot control. If I did I'd never leave the house. I've willingly done some truly dangerous things before (such as rafting class 5 rapids) ...even when I'm jacked around with flight delays or turbulence so bad the stewardess aborts their beer run, I find it a peaceful opportunity to relax and read. Except maybe when there's an asshat fully reclined in front of me so I can't even open the tray. Then I get enraged.

Montag · Post by **Montag** » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:32 pm

Don't read the news for a few days.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:42 am

Fitzy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:25 pm
YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:37 pm Recently I've tried practicing mindfulness (living in the moment) to reduce trip and social anxiety, which has helped a lot. I'm not talking going full on Buddha/New Age with it. Just in terms of learning to steer my thoughts away from the future and focus on the present. Ex: if my mind starts to wander into "I'm going to be gone for four days, I'm really going to miss the kids" territory, I know to refocus on today's activities and not on worries four days in the future.

One thing I have learned that applies to almost any anxiety-producing situation, from roller coasters to social events - 99% of the time, your imagined worries are far worse than actual reality. I probably missed out on dozens of great times and fantastic memories when I was younger by letting my anxiety dictate my actions. I've made a concerted effort to change that in recent years.
Mindfulness was a big part of my CBT and I suspect I’d be nonfunctional by this point instead of trying new things, had I not gotten help. Not that I’m “healed”, but I’m certainly better than I was 15 years ago. I write books now and let other people purchase them and read them. I even went to Europe which would have been impossible, all those people I can’t understand, probably making fun of me right in front of me! No way. Now it was one of the best experiences of my life. It’s sad to think of what I’ve missed out on over the years by simply being afraid.

It’s painfully hard, or at least it was for me, but well worth it to work on anxiety where possible.

Others perception of me when I'm feeling anxious is a big part of my fear.
I get nervous ticks and they can be quite off-putting.
My best friend took a long time to cope with being in a car with me as a passenger. I usually sit in the last row of the movie theater so I don't have to worry about anyone being me seeing if/when I get jittery.
I cant imagine sitting in a plane where others may be nervous enough without seeing me shaking and twitching.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:41 pm

Riding the Acela right now. Three hours out of Boston and three more to DC...coming into NYC now.

Y'know how in old movies people say their goodbyes on the platform? Yeah, it's still like that, more or less. There is zero security and they don't even check your ticket until after you're underway. Anyone can sashay onto the platform and board the train. I knew this to be true the last time I took a train years ago, and am pleased that it hasn't changed.

Compared to an airplane, the seats are spacious and comfy, the table is big enough to be useful, and there are power outlets and free WiFi. The lunch options in the dining car are...limited at best.

The main drawback is that, because Wife insists on sitting in the Quiet Car, the train is packed. We could only sit together by taking seats opposite another pair of seats (like a restaurant booth). Our "table-mate" is known as Sniffy. On the plus side, the Quiet Car really is quiet except for the sniffing, and there is no social pressure to make Sniffy's acquaintance. Or even eye contact, for that matter.

If you must travel, the train is the least-stressful way to do it -- the next-best thing to staying home.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:45 pm

You'll never see those people again, don't worry about what they think. They aren't going to offer you a job right? So just be you and move on.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:55 pm

Here's my experience of flying and why I don't fear it:

You walk into this big room and sit down. As long as you don't look out the windows, that's all you are in, a big room with a bunch of annoying people. Then, after a certain amount of time has passed, you step out of the room and see that as if by magic you are somewhere different than where you were when you stepped into the room.

Nowhere in there does 'flying' come into play. Flying is what Superman does.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:54 pm

I'm not sure if it's age related but I used to be fine with flying and now... I'm not.
Last time I took the plane from Montreal to Calgary I was very nervous but the ride went fine I watched a movie so time flew (ah ah) by quickly.

When I was schedule to come back to Montreal though is where things got bad, I received a "wing warning" on my phone for the area, and people exiting the plane were talking how rough the landing was. I started panicking quite a bit at that moment and honestly I almost chickened out and left the airport. Anyway, I get in the plane and we're on the runaway and the plane is shaking from the wind, I was holding the armrest as hard as I could and when we finally left the ground and the god damn plane was , I donT' know how to explain it but moving left, right up down, it was (to me) complete chaos and the only thing I could do was say outloud "we're gonna die". Yeah......... the guy sitting beside me tried to calm me down, telling me to take deep breath and relax but all I could focus on was "we're gonna die".

When we reached a decent altitude it calmed down a bit but the ride was still quite bumpy (especially the landing in Montreal) once we reached the gate the guy (who entertained me for the whole 4+ hours flight) told me that I'm in no shape to drive (1h30 min ish) and he paid me a beer and we talked some more.

I was completely drained and slept as soon as I got home and I had to get a massage the following day my back from the stress was killing me.

So yeah that's my fear of flying story, only *thinking* about flying makes me feel uneasy but I'd never avoid going somewhere if it requires a plane ride (though I'd rather use a car but I can't go to europe in a car).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:22 pm

Just remember to ask - Is Stress Real, Or Are You Crazy And It's All In Your Head?

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:05 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:22 pm Just remember to ask - Is Stress Real, Or Are You Crazy And It's All In Your Head?

Lol....yeah....that about sums up the way I feel about myself......

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:20 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:41 pm
If you must travel, the train is the least-stressful way to do it -- the next-best thing to staying home.

I rode the train today, 1 hour inbound and more than 90 minutes heading back. No less stressful than about 90% of the flights I've had...trying to find day parking near a Metra station is a huge source of stress (some become available at the station...8 minutes AFTER the train leaves. The return trip lacked the calming influence of beer because...Lolapalooza.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:12 am

So after the flight out to Indy and back for GenCon, I can once again confirm that flying is boring as hell.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:38 am

gameoverman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:55 pm You walk into this big room and sit down. As long as you don't look out the windows, that's all you are in, a big room with a bunch of annoying people. Then, after a certain amount of time has passed, you step out of the room and see that as if by magic you are somewhere different than where you were when you stepped into the room.

I try to think this way. The illusion is shattered the moment I'm thrown backwards into my seat as we take off, and again anytime the plane bumps or jumps. In those moments, I'm reminded of the thin metal shell and thousands of feet of empty space between me and safety.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:53 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:38 am
gameoverman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:55 pm You walk into this big room and sit down. As long as you don't look out the windows, that's all you are in, a big room with a bunch of annoying people. Then, after a certain amount of time has passed, you step out of the room and see that as if by magic you are somewhere different than where you were when you stepped into the room.
I try to think this way. The illusion is shattered the moment I'm thrown backwards into my seat as we take off, and again anytime the plane bumps or jumps. In those moments, I'm reminded of the thin metal shell and thousands of feet of empty space between me and safety.

Annnnnnd....thanks for the set back!!!!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 am

You're more likely to be assaulted by the air crew or airport security than be injured in a flight-related incident.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:13 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 am You're more likely to be assaulted by the air crew or airport security than be injured in a flight-related incident.

As I said, I'm pretty sure if I ever somehow talk myself into stepping foot in a plane again, I will be that guy on the 5:00 news being zip tied and dragged off.......

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:17 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 amYou're more likely to be assaulted by the air crew or airport security than be injured in a flight-related incident.

Statistics are beautiful and rational, but I'm not using them to travel. Instead, I'm surrounded by the possibility of plunging to my death. Rationally, I know I'm far safer in a plane than I am driving down the highway. What I feel inside a plane has nothing to do with rationality.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:02 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:12 am So after the flight out to Indy and back for GenCon, I can once again confirm that flying is boring as hell.

Did you just conflate Indy with flying? I think you did. It's Indy that's boring as hell.