Walking, lots of walking (gear recommendations)

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:35 am

As I mentioned in Random Randomness, I started a new job 4 weeks ago as a home delivery person for Imperfect Produce. Record so far is 16000 steps a day, but that's more of an exception. It's a lot of driving then short walking. My shift is noon till 8:30PM, but due to lack of drivers, virtually every day has overtime. Last night I didn't clock out until midnight, and I didn't get home until 0040. They just overloaded us with packages (I had 80+ deliveries, and completed 60+, let's just say it's NOT fun delivering after dark, and apartments are hell for delivery persons, as I can easily spend 5x the time in an apartment complex than regular house).

Anyway, need footwear recommendations. RR gave me some suggestions, which I am going to incorporate a little later.

Right now, my footwear includes:

* Shoes: Avia Avi-Union (available in 11.5 Wide), which I mainly bought because it's black and cheaper than Nike Monarchs (Black), not specifically for walking, but it's considered a "working sneaker"

* Socks: Dickie's "Dri-tech" cotton blend crew socks (black)

* Insoles: I got some "gel" thing in Walgreens after getting a blister the day before.

* Knee brace/protector: already got two of them from Amazon (just in case)

Problems and concerns:

* I almost rolled my ankle yesterday, and it happens to be the ankle with some Achilles' tendon problem. I am pretty sure I sprained it, but it's not a bad sprain. Right now I have it "wrapped", some ice, and lots of naproxen.

Q: Does a high-top shoe help or hurt with the ankle issue?

Q: Any other suggestions for ankle, other than "rest", which I can do over the weekend?

Stuff that are NOT major concerns, but can be improved.

* My current socks are okay, as my feet don't sweat "much" but I've read about all these exotic socks, like 5-finger socks, samurai/v-socks, and merino wool-blend socks. Do they actually do any good? I mean, as long as I don't get blisters, and my feet don't itch, and I wash them daily, I'm okay, right?

* Do those hiking shoes, like Merrill MOAB, really make that much of a difference? Or is it more of a "you have to try it to believe it" kind of thing?

* I already got two more sets of insoles from different companies, will try them out in my new cheap walking shoe next week.

Not really a concern at this time:

* Water is not an issue, as I go back to my car constantly. I bought a bottle carrier to attach to my sling pack so I can carry two bottles comfortably (and a Subway sandwich) plus my safety vest (for night work) which has enough pockets for flashlight and stuff. Turns out bathroom is a bigger issue. Finding the right gas station or fast food place with a working restroom turns out to be more of a quest than it should be.

* Food is not an issue, as I can take a break almost any time I want. (my employer is not nanny-like supervisors, though they do track movements) and in addition to a sandwich, I also bring two protein bars as a backup.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:53 am

I can't answer your questions, but want to chime in that appropriate footwear is important for anyone who walks a lot. Your sneakers might not be adequate for all the conditions you'll face -- on rainy days you'll want something to keep your feet dry, even if just overshoes; on snowy or icy days (if you have them) you'll want boots with good traction; on very hot days, you might want sandals.

Alternating among several pairs of shoes according to conditions will make all of them last longer than just walking one pair to death, too.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:06 pm

Merino wool socks are the bomb. Smart Wool is the brand that started it, and if you can find them on sale it helps. They tend to last a long time, but are spendy. Lately even Walmart has merino wool blends,and REI has a great selection of course. Benefits of merino are much better dealing with moisture from sweat, etc than cotton but thankfully unlike normal wool socks they are comfy. And since they are often marketed towards hikers they tend to have more support as well.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:39 pm

You should look around for a UPS/USPS/FedEx forum where people discuss what they use. There may be decades of useful info built up in there.

Me personally? I'm lucky if I remember to wear worn out hiking boots in the winter instead of my sneakers or dress shoes.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:40 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:39 pm You should look around for a UPS/USPS/FedEx forum where people discuss what they use. There may be decades of useful info built up in there.

This is probably the best advice, but it's not nearly as interesting, fun or as social as asking questions here on OO. Keep talking to us because it's interesting to hear your experiences. Go find the secret mailman forum because it's going to be the best source of information on the subject.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:52 pm

Sorry.

Please tell us about the love of blisters you're developing...

I promise I wasn't trying to send you off!

My "closest" match was security, walking on patrol all night. I didn't have to carry anything, and just wore zip-up-the-side combat boots with polished leather.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:00 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:52 pm Sorry.

I wasn't being critical. I was agreeing with your suggestion. It was a no brainer that my no brain completely failed to think of. In retrospect, OBVIOUSLY these questions have long established, time honored, accurate answers, and other delivery people are the ones who have them.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:30 pm

Based on exactly no evidence...

My gut feel is that high-top sneakers are useless. At least the ones I've seen are too low to make a difference. I have definitely had hiking boots save me from a sprained or twisted ankle. But most hiking boots are probably going to be too heavy to be practical.

You might look into the ankle support/brace options. I have a sock-like one that slips over which provides some nice support. I also have part of a really nice one that I used to use when I played soccer. It actually had braces embedded in it. Unfortunately I misplaced part of it and can't use it. However, I doubt that you are going to want to wear things like that all the time. But for now, while you are building strength in your ankles, they may help prevent an injury. Working so late is probably the biggest risk. Injuries will be more likely as you get tired.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:08 pm

Oboz shoes (sold at REI among others) have really impressed me for the support and they are new enough of a company they are still really well made. I have crap ankles and even the low tops I have ( Tamarack) really help with footing.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:53 pm

In the service our combat boots were the most comfortable footware there was. For any kind of conditions anywhere. With a long lifespan.
Now I'm not exactly recommending combat boots but boots along that line would be something to look into.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:29 am

A friend's husband was a USPS mailman... now retired. Apparently, he got someone to certify him disabled with almost no cartilage in his knees. I guess I can ask him.

Survived another day. Who'd knew that a flashlight was such a requirement in this job? I brought my own as I don't trust the cheap ones they provide, and at night, you need them to spot the house numbers. Not all cities mandate the curbside numbers, and they aren't always readable at night either.

Apartment complexes are the bane of my existence. Apparently, they all want the boxes brought to their door. I pretty much say F*** that and leave them in the mail room or mailbox area. I'm not going to walk up 3 flights of stairs (no elevator) looking for one room out of dozens. With houses, I can sometimes drop one package every 5 minutes (or faster) even including driving time. I can spend 10-15 minutes looking for ONE apartment door, and it's worse in the dark. Most of them don't even mention the apartment complex name, giving us NO IDEA where to even look for the entrance.

Add to this, apparently our dispatch software has glitches that sometimes screwed up the addresses so it ended up pointing at a different city. For example, we had an example today. All the deliveries were supposed to be in Oakland, California (just over the bridge from San Francisco), yet somehow, in the middle of the route, somehow an address in Berkeley (about 10 miles to the north) was mixed in there, except on the map it shows as coordinates (and a totally different address) in Oakland, NOT Berkeley. It's clear they have a hiccup somewhere in converting the address to map coordinates, and as yet they've not found it. "Most" addresses are fine, but why would they store the address and the map coordinates separately, instead of converting them on the fly... It's clear that conversion is broken, but right now they want to live with it instead of fixing it.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:41 am

Enough wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:08 pm Oboz shoes (sold at REI among others) have really impressed me for the support and they are new enough of a company they are still really well made. I have crap ankles and even the low tops I have ( Tamarack) really help with footing.

Price-y... cheapest Oboz is $68 on Amazon, and they go up quickly. Tamarack is showing as $136 and up

Similar to Keen and Merrell shoes and boots, I suppose.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:49 am

For running, I can definitely tell the difference between the $120 shoes I use and the $60 pair I tried to get away with. YMMV.

mori · Post by **mori** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:18 am

Do not go cheap on shoes. I spend all day on my feet and have to walk a lot. I wear Snap-On Daytona 3 work boots (non steel toe version). These are work boots and not walking shoes. I need all weather and oil slip resistance, ESD rated which you probably don't need. I change the inserts periodically and I can get a couple years out of a pair. Better than cheap shoes that wear out in a few months and give me back and knee pain.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:29 am

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:41 am
Enough wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:08 pm Oboz shoes (sold at REI among others) have really impressed me for the support and they are new enough of a company they are still really well made. I have crap ankles and even the low tops I have ( Tamarack) really help with footing.
Price-y... cheapest Oboz is $68 on Amazon, and they go up quickly. Tamarack is showing as $136 and up

Similar to Keen and Merrell shoes and boots, I suppose.

Keen and Merrell are really comfortable as well, but Oboz I think may wear longer. Definitely longer than Merrells. Be sure to try on any shoe though, I have fallen in love with a shoe based on reviews before and it turned out that it just does not work for my feet.

Jaddison · Post by **Jaddison** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:36 am

I really like ankle support and these boots turned out to be incredibly comfortable and and also ankle and leg support is incredible.

I wear them to work most days and I sit at a desk. They come in wide and are comfortable all day long, even 12 straight hours of wearing.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... th=1&psc=1

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:26 pm

FWIW, I did search on UPS/Fedex workers forums. Some swear on Keen boots. some said ECCO boots, some recommended any old black sneakers (which made no sense). Most of them recommend good insoles and swap them regularly.

Oboz doesn't make anything with higher ankle support, at least not available on Amazon, hmmm...

I am looking into work boots and tactical boots. Interesting... didn't know Under Armour made a tactical boot. Thought when it comes to tactical boots I tend to think 5.11 tactical

5.11 tactical ATAC 8" looks pretty good, and I can try it on Prime Wardrobe.

https://www.amazon.com/5-11-Tactical-St ... 0019MPN50/

This is Bates Men's Raider 8 Not too bad either.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079TDK1K5/

Aha, Bates Ultra-lights are available for less and on prime wardrobe too.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A1KBCQ/

Smith and Wesson seems to be the cheapest offering a "tactical" 8-inch boot at $72 with free return and available in my size.

https://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-Foo ... 01L9U5EG4/

Decisions, decisions.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:59 pm

I ended up Prime Wardrobe try-before-buy Bates Men's Ultra-Lites 8-inch for $79, along with two other items

I need another set of cargo shorts, as some of those I bought at Ross is not working out that well. I picked Wrangler Classic Twill Cargo Shorts.

I also picked up a pair of rain pants, oversized so they can fit OVER my cargo shorts, when rainy weather comes (or when it gets really windy and cold at night). It's packable so I can just fold it up and pack it into my sling pack. I tried the Columbia convertible pants, and it's... tolerable. So I picked Columbia Men's Glennaker Lake Rain Pants.

One of my biggest Amazon purchases so far. Expected in 4-6 days.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:21 am

I am considering a backpack upgrade. Right now, I have my sling pack adorned with various MOLLE attachments. I have a side pocket, a bottle holder, and a folding pocket attached, which is big enough to store my night-safety vest, 2 x 32-oz of water, 12-inch subway sandwich (barely), backup battery for the phone and cables, car power adapter, my boonie hat, a couple protein bars for emergencies, some pens and whatnot, and extra flashlight. But comes rainy season, I'll need to add a rain jacket and rain pants and current sling pack would be a bit small.

Yes, I can just buy a regular "school" backpack, but I generally prefer MOLLE type backpacks, as I have various accessories like drop-leg carriers for my tablet and other stuff and I can shift stuff around.

And research into backpacks reveals HUGE differences even within "daypacks". This REI guide is pretty good, even though REI doesn't make any MOLLE gear.

It seems I need 11-20 or 21-35 L packs, probably the smaller end, as I can attach the external MOLLE bits to increase capacity. On the other hand, buying too small is worse than buying too big. *sigh*

Right now, the SOG Ninja Tactical Day Pack with 24L capacity seems to be the right size. It's either this, or a much smaller 10L pack.

FWIW, I'm also getting this ankle support. For $8 I'll give it a try.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:29 am

I don't have an exact recommendation for shoes, though I'd probably aim at a boot if you're looking for support. My cold weather dailys are good old Merrill Moab Ventilators. They're low top, though they also come in high top, and they're very solid. Also pretty much everywhere.

For socks, try Darn Tough brand. They come in a ton of styles, and are definitely durable as hell, and comfy.

For backpacks, take a look at Goruck, specifically the GR1. They're expensive, but it's basically the last backpack you'll buy. They come in a few sizes and colors, and have molle webbing inside and out. They're tough as hell, and built for carrying weight while being comfortable, so if you want to load it up with 50 pounds of stuff, you definitely can (I have). I've got the 26l one, and it's basically a bag of holding. Stuff goes in forever, but the structure of the bag basically never changes, so no bulging.

About the only down side is that by design, there's not a lot of internal organization. There's two pockets on the outer flap, and one external, but that's it. Fortunately, molle webbing on the inside means you can add an internal pocket if you need it.

I'm kind of gushing about this thing, but it's a really good bag. I've taken it hiking, on an obstacle course race, a weighted endurance event, a bunch of travel, and it's my everyday work bag. If anything were to ever happen to it (unlikely, and the company offers a lifetime repair/replacement warranty on most damage), it'd be replaced with another immediately. Hell, my wife and mother in law ended up getting ones for themselves. It's a real good bag.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:26 am

Now I really want to see a pic of Kasey all kitted out.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:48 pm

Chaz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:29 am I don't have an exact recommendation for shoes, though I'd probably aim at a boot if you're looking for support.

I ordered a set of Bates Ultra-lights 8 inch tactical boot. I looked into Merrell MOABs and they don't make boots, just high-tops.

For backpacks, take a look at Goruck, specifically the GR1. They're expensive, but it's basically the last backpack you'll buy. They come in a few sizes and colors, and have molle webbing inside and out. They're tough as hell, and built for carrying weight while being comfortable, so if you want to load it up with 50 pounds of stuff, you definitely can (I have).

They are expensive all right. $300 or so depending on the exact model. I may do that in a couple months when I can afford it. Right now I'll have to make do with the SOG $38 dollar one.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:10 pm

Yeah, I was thinking hiking boots, which are sorta not really boots.

The Goruck stuff is definitely expensive. Worth it, but yeah, expensive. They do run periodic sales on them that drop the price a little bit. Mostly those are on the non-black ones, but some of those are good looking. If that was something you're interested in, sign up for their mailing list. They announce sales in there, and I don't think they sell info to other marketers.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:10 am

Survived another day, delivered over 80 boxes, a personal record.

I don't think I am getting enough arch support or heel stability in my shoes and insoles. I tried my "new" (cheap) pair of shoes today, with a set of insoles that came highly recommended by the UPS forums. They are pretty comfy, but again, the shoe/insole doesn't quite have the heel/arch stability I am looking for.

My boots should arrive Wednesday or Thursday Friday

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:06 am

Survived yet another day, finished 65 boxes today, but they're all in San Francisco, so I was finished by 7:35 (started at 12:30, and 30 minute lunch break).

Didn't like Spenco's insoles. Somehow, they feel a bit too hard, though it may be the new shoes too. I ended the day with both soles feeling a bit sore, but the heels are fine.

Went past Target, decided not to wait for Amazon, but instead, spent $25 and bought a pair of "Dr. Scholl's Heavy Duty Support Orthotics" with extra heel shock guard and arch support. Will try that tomorrow.

I realized that my idea of using a manhole cover puller to pull boxes was way overkill. I could have gotten a "dressing stick", which was apparently sold as senior aid item to help folks put on jackets and socks and such, and it is a bit shorter than 36 inches, but also much lighter. The question is do I need it that badly... Or will my heavier tool do?

Researching "dressing stick" brought me to the world of "dressing aids", helping people with limited mobility like hip surgery or paraplegic people or just seniors putting on socks and pants and jackets and stuff. Most dressing sticks are 24 inches long, and I want one that goes past 30 inches. Searching for them shows the longest I can find is 28 inch for about $15. There is a 36 inch one, but it's like 35 with shipping.

The other option is a boat hook, but the hook doesn't seem quite right for box pulling, as it's meant to be pulling a line (rope).

Maybe I should just get a normal telescoping handle and find some sort of attachment to it? Hmmm...

Then inspiration hit from an unlikely source... "Kid's garden hoes". Made of plastic, with a wood shaft, they are $10, and has a 36 inch handle.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:01 am

Selfie-sticks telescope, don't they? Probably get one pretty cheaply, too.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:06 am

The Meal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:01 am Selfie-sticks telescope, don't they? Probably get one pretty cheaply, too.

Not enough strength. The boxes can be heavy, couple pounds, esp. if they're filled with carrots and melons and whatnot.

This kid's garden hoe seems perfect.

And I'm guessing I'm confusing the heck out of Amazon's AI trying to predict what I am trying to buy.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:12 am

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:06 amThe other option is a boat hook, but the hook doesn't seem quite right for box pulling, as it's meant to be pulling a line (rope).

Consider a pickaroon, though you'd need to cover the business end with foam.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:17 am

I would suggest just slamming on the brakes as you arrive at the location so the next package in line slides to the door for you. Saves time and money.

No need to thank me.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:19 am

Doesn't help. The vans come with non-slip flooring.

(for real)

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:26 am Now I really want to see a pic of Kasey all kitted out.

+1

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:15 pm

The problem. Is with these new shoes, dammit.

They are marked as 11.5W,but my soles still feel tight. My Avia didn't have this problem.

Unfortunatly I am already out and about and I'll have to survive the day with them.

Edit. I've taken off my socks, which seems. To help somewhat.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:29 am

My SOG Ninja backpack is in, and it does hold a lot of stuff compared to my itty-bitty sling-pack. I am contemplating how many add-on MOLLE attachments to add and to leave room inside for maybe extra socks and stuff "just in case" without packing too much extra ****. The main weight is 2 32-oz bottles of water. Maybe I can just carry one? Right now I have vest, flashlight, battery, car adapter, 3 protein bars, 1 bottle of water, and stuff already loaded, without even using the main compartment. I was thinking two more attachments, one for the water bottle and one for my lunch, leaving the insides for layers of clothing (a windbreaker jacket, ultra-light, rain pants, and maybe an extra t-shirt and some personal care items).

I am going back to my Avia Union. This new pair of shoes isn't really working out, even with two kinds of insoles. Maybe I need to buy arch support... (that Dr. Shool's arch support... didn't feel anything when wearing it... )

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:29 am

My ankle support is in as well. This one feels better than the crappy one I got at Walgreens, and even made my arches feel a little better. Kinda make me want to buy little gel packs for arch support.

mori · Post by **mori** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:55 pm

You wear that ankle support and still wear your shoes? Makes me think you are not wearing the right sized shoes.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:48 am

Could be, could be.

Right now, I have 2 pairs of shoes, with third pair arriving tomorrow. I've ordered 11.5Ws as that's what I usually get. (I have a couple old pairs, New Balance and Nike Monarchs, lying around, they are kinda worn but wearable)

1) Avia Avi-Unions, which I am comfortable with, but then it's broken in. Currently, it has Dr. Scholl's Gel insoles, and it's quite comfy. I've worn ankle support in these shoes, no problem.

2) SafetyStep Zeus, looks similar, but despite 11.5W size, it feels like 11.5 regular. My soles hurt after a full day with insoles recommended by UPS forum (Spenco Polysorb Heavy Duty Maximum) or the Dr. Scholl's heavy duty support insoles. I went without socks and it felt a bit better, so it's definitely tight somehow. I can probably wear it around town with light socks, but it's not working as workshoes.

We'll see if I can fit into those boots tomorrow. If not, I'll need to order another pair of Avia Avi-Unions.

EDIT: In the past month, since starting this job, I've sunk 400+ dollars into Amazon ordering ****. At least the pace has slowed down some what.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:14 am

Got the boots in. Crap, I think it's too tight. I ordered the same size as my sneakers, and even in "EW" (extra wide) my soles is feeling a bit pinched. On the other hand, my heel is snug. Maybe a bit TOO snug. *sigh* Guess I have to visit a real shoe place to get re-fitted. Fortunately, there's a Fleet Feet Sports downtown that can do it. Guess I am paying them a visit tomorrow.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:54 pm

Holy ****. Good shoes are expensive. I went downtown and found I am actually a size 10 4e. But I have to wear at least 10.5 or 11 ee or 4e since I have very thick ankles. Just bought a pair of new balance... 175. Ouch. But it feels good.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:23 pm

I find I can buy excellent footwear for very reasonable prices if I shop the clearance section at http://www.sportsmansguide.com

mori · Post by **mori** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:21 pm

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:54 pm Holy ****. Good shoes are expensive. I went downtown and found I am actually a size 10 4e. But I have to wear at least 10.5 or 11 ee or 4e since I have very thick ankles. Just bought a pair of new balance... 175. Ouch. But it feels good.

The best money you will ever spend on footwear. Proper fitting shoes.