GG's Financial Management Thread

[GreenGoo]

Don't have time at this exact second to write much, but I'd like to move the subject matter that is specifically about me out of the Net Worth thread. I realize it's too late in that there are probably 4-5 pages in a 10 page thread about me, but better late than never.

I'll be talking about specific actions I'm taking, what's going on financially, and any results that come of it. I might talk about my relationship with my wife as well, as there is significant overlap.

So further talk about my finances will be here. Feel free to comment as you will.

[The Meal]

Good luck.

[GreenGoo]

Thank you.

[GreenGoo]

I'll just mention that as much as my wife is unhappy about being sued and being "caught" at bad management, she is not particularly contrite and she is NOT going to like the process of cataloguing where all our money is going. It will be a bit painful for me too because as I mentioned, if I want to go out for dinner, I just go out without a second thought. Adding up all those carefree monies leaving the house is going to hurt me too.

But not as much as it's gonna piss off my wife to have the hard facts put in front of her. And I don't mean this in a confrontational, judgment or lecturing way. Just doing basic tracking is going to identify some seriously broken habits, and being "called" on them is going to cause major conflict.

Should be fun. I'm ready to eat my humble pie. Let's find out if she is ready to eat hers. Don't expect any movement on this for a week or two. I'll be taking it a bit slowly as to not upset the apple cart at first. Also it's a bit of work and I'm going to do it in bite sized chunks.

All I'm talking about is simply identifying where money is being spent. That's it. For now.

[Smoove_B]

All I'm talking about is simply identifying where money is being spent. That's it. For now.

That's exactly what you should be doing (IMHO). You can't possibly begin to get a handle on how to address anything until you can fully appreciate what's coming in vs what is going out. And that's going to take what will likely feel like a soul-crushing amount of forensic analysis along with an honest-to-goodness attempt to monitor what's happening financially moving forward. This isn't a "forever" thing, it's a "our boat is sinking and this is how we're going to bail out" thing.

It's critical to be honest and non-judgemental. This isn't about finding blame. It's about understanding flow.

[GreenGoo]

It's critical to be honest and non-judgemental. This isn't about finding blame. It's about understanding flow.

Yeah. Right. It's going to go badly. I've spent most of my marriage trying to figure out how to broach topics with my wife. I'm not sure I have *ever* succeeded. There is a near zero chance this simple task doesn't not result in anger and possibly yelling.

Still, it needs to be done.

[Kraken]

But not as much as it's gonna piss off my wife to have the hard facts put in front of her. And I don't mean this in a confrontational, judgment or lecturing way. Just doing basic tracking is going to identify some seriously broken habits, and being "called" on them is going to cause major conflict.

More conflict than getting sued over those broken habits? You're in for confrontation either way, so might as well try to make it constructive.

Just as a thought experiment, what would happen if you didn't bail her out? Would the debt come out of her income, over time? Are there still debtors prisons? Your negotiating position would be helped by a more tangible threat than your displeasure.

[GreenGoo]

Beats me. Not in a rush to find out, although I am willing to hire a debt lawyer on contingency if I can find a reputable one in the short amount of time I have. He could probably answer those questions.

As for the first question, I don't know. I was pretty pissed but even that only lasted about a day or so, because instead of directing my anger at her I just started solving the problem (the short term problem). So while there was conflict, I'm not sure it will be more than what happens when we find out that we are literally throwing away hundreds of dollars of food each month while at the same time spending hundreds of dollars on take out each month. And I mean that literally. Not conflict because I'm upset at it, but conflict because she's upset that I did the appropriate tracking and then showed it to her.

On the one hand, I'm probably being a little unfair. On the other hand, this sort of behaviour is not out of the realm of possibility. As in, it's more probable than improbable.

We won't know for a few days or weeks yet. I'll try to remember and post about it, because I've learned anything about reality tv, it's that watching other peoples' messy lives is a form of entertainment.

If it turns out I am wrong, I'll post that too. And be grateful that I was.

[GreenGoo]

Was going to run my credit report tonight (equifax wants 25 bucks! for an instant, online version) but realized that my wife still had my CC from last week when she went back to school shopping and I insisted that she use it rather than spend her own cash (literally cash).

a) Cash back points
b) Relieve some of the financial pressure she must feel
c) They are my kids too
d) because

edit: Oh, wife is at work, so so is my cc.

[RunningMn9]

Nobody likes scrutiny, especially when they are doing things they know will look bad on closer inspection. But you do get used to scrutiny. I track every single dollar in and every single dollar out. I bring transactions to my wife’s attention under one of two conditions: I’m not sure that it’s valid (had CC compromised more times than I can count); things are starting to go off the rails and they need to stop going off the rails.

Outside of that, she’s a grown up and can spend household money as she sees fit. I would guess that our threshold for giving the other a heads up is about $100 or so. I wouldn’t say that it’s asking permission, just “hey I’m buying this thing for $150, is this going to cause an issue because you were also going to spend that $150 on something?”.

Our current income split is about 98/2. So it’s important that we understand that 100% of income is our income. Who brings in what is not relevant. There is no “my” money and “her” money. This realization is critical when there is this kind of income imbalance. Although we didn’t treat it any differently when it was closer to a 60/40 split.

[geezer]

It's critical to be honest and non-judgemental. This isn't about finding blame. It's about understanding flow.

Yeah. Right. It's going to go badly. I've spent most of my marriage trying to figure out how to broach topics with my wife. I'm not sure I have *ever* succeeded. There is a near zero chance this simple task doesn't not result in anger and possibly yelling.

Still, it needs to be done.

Honestly I’m beginning to think your financial issues are a symptom of a more important problem. I might humbly suggest that if you refocus on the greater issue the financial issues going forward might be solved by default.

[GreenGoo]

Thanks, but not happening.

Or better, how would you solve the problem as you see it?

I've already said our relationship is dysfunctional. That's not news to me.

[GreenGoo]

Actually, one step at a time.

Getting a handle on the finances will also be a step towards being less dysfunctional, so I'm going to focus on that while doing my best not to make the relationship worse.

[GreenGoo]

Something I haven't mentioned but I think is important is that I donate to a number of charities on a monthly basis. I forgot about them because they are all manageable amounts and are all auto debit'd like my bill payments. I don't actually think about them much.

I realize that doesn't make me a saint. It's not like I'm donating my time, for example. Still, it's money leaving the house to help (in a small way) make the world slightly better.

While I'm extremely frugal with my money, it's so I can be generous (presents for my wife and kids) as well as plan for the future.

My wife and I have been able to help family and friends in significant ways. From several hundred dollars for a friend who was single mother and needed specialty shoes for one of her daughter's, to thousands to another couple who were in a short term rough patch and their house was on the line.

We're not soft touches though and only my EVEN WORSE at money brother has ever returned and tried to double dip. Or triple dip. Or set up a monthly withdrawal from our accounts.

The single mother is now VERY happily married (she deserves it) and putting her kids through university. The couple got through their problems and to the best of my knowledge doing well.

They tried to pay us back but I was pretty sure it was too soon so we refused. I "let" them take us out for a very nice dinner instead.

I'm not a saint, but I am a good person (for these and other reasons) as is my wife. I might be miserly but I am not Scrooge.

I make the world slightly better by existing, and that's important to me.

[GreenGoo]

On a less serious note, one of the kittens (less than 6 months old) stole 17 dollars worth of roast beef sandwich meat while we were putting away the groceries, dragged it downstairs, then all 4 cats spent the last 18 hours trying to devour all the evidence.

We only realised it was missing and went searching for it a day later.

So that's

[geezer]

Actually, one step at a time.

Getting a handle on the finances will also be a step towards being less dysfunctional, so I'm going to focus on that while doing my best not to make the relationship worse.

I understand that you have to solve the immediate crisis, but you've also been talking for awhile about wanting to prevent future issues like this, and you've been getting a lot of advice on how to better manage finances. I guess my point is that I suspect that managing finances isn't really the problem, and that really became clear to me in your comment above that I initially responded to. In my opinion, unless you are able to figure out a way to constructively address issues of mutual concern (meaning issues that directly effect the two of you and your family - and as an aside I don't see it as a necessity to be as intertwined as some folks do) you're going to keep having crisis after crisis.

I'm not sure if my thoughts on how you might address that are relevant, except in the most general terms. As someone for whom sharing concerns in a relationship is not my first instinct, I can tell you that learning to be more open and share some of the emotional burden of looming problems has been invaluable in bringing my wife and I closer over time (perhaps this is more pertinent to your wife than to you), and it's far easier when two minds work to solve a problem than trying to go it alone. I don't know how to make that happen for you. But if my interpretation of your situation is anywhere close to correct, I am fairly confident that if you can bridge that gap, you will, at a minimum, be better prepared to attack problem areas earlier and in better ways.

[Blackhawk]

Yes, but are the cats contrite?

[GreenGoo]

Ok. I've mentioned that I need buy-in from my partner, and despite knowing that the best course of action for success is to simply do things and then tell her later, or do things and just not tell her. It sucks, but here we are.

This morning I decide to give her some forewarning as to what some of my plans are regarding YNAB, financial tracking, etc. Non-confrontational, non-accusatory, matter of fact. She's receptive. HUZZAH! It's good. She's nodding, she's agreeing, awesome. I tell her it's impossible to have a healthy financial house if we don't know where the money is going. I tell her I'm not going to look backward (I said this two years ago in the Net Worth thread too. ), everything will be going forward, and I won't ask her to save all her receipts until I have YNAB set up and ready. This is important because the last time I asked her to save all the receipts but then never did anything. I gave her more work that ended up being wasted energy, and I didn't help. She resented it, and with good reason. A small difference in approach, but hopefully it helped.

So things are good. I underestimated my wife and she proved me wrong.

Then I tell her I'm running my credit report and that I am going to run her's as well, just to see where we stand. Suddenly I can see the attitude change. The defenses are starting to come up. The rationalizations start to come out. I tell her we know it's bad, but there is a difference between knowing something is bad, and knowing how bad. She's not responsive to the idea. She reminds me that 90% of the bills are on my name, so when she pays them it helps my rating, not her's. Totally true and not something I had thought about. Of course everything is in my name because I have (and have always had) a better rating, but that's neither here nor there. I don't want the rating so I can beat her with it, I want it so we can get a baseline of where we are so we can check it again in the future and measure our improvement, if any.

Until I started writing, it never occurred to me that there might be things besides the CC default that she doesn't want me to see. I am *absolutely* blind when it comes to my wife's "issues" with money, in that if she tells me something is true, I assume it's true. She is untrustworthy with money and yet I treat her as completely trustworthy (she's an adult etc etc). Like trusting an addict who has shown repeatedly that the addiction is causing problems. It's dumb, but I do it because I'm naive, she's my wife, she's adult, it's not that hard, etc etc. That's on me.

I have not run the report yet. I am not actually worried about anything. I thought I'd write out how my discussion with my wife about my planned actions went to keep a record. I'm very curious to see what her report contains, but I am also very curious to see my own. It's interesting stuff.

I'm also writing this ahead of running the report so that you guys can see how things are shaking out beforehand, and I'll write again later so you can see how things are working out after.

Another important thing that came out of the discussion (it was always going to be part of the plan, but I realize more thought is required) is that we need to find ways for her to rebuild her credit rating while simultaneously preventing her from destroying it. Well, keeping it destroyed, I guess. She needs a tiny little kitten of credit to take care of so she can rebuild the credit world's confidence in her (and she in herself) before she tries again to take on 50% of the credit zoo that is our household.

[Blackhawk]

Ugh, you're trying to practice accounting while sprinting across a minefield.

I don't have any good advice except keep running and good luck!

[GreenGoo]

Yes, but are the cats contrite?

Ah hell no.

[GreenGoo]

Actually, one step at a time.

Getting a handle on the finances will also be a step towards being less dysfunctional, so I'm going to focus on that while doing my best not to make the relationship worse.

I understand that you have to solve the immediate crisis, but you've also been talking for awhile about wanting to prevent future issues like this, and you've been getting a lot of advice on how to better manage finances. I guess my point is that I suspect that managing finances isn't really the problem, and that really became clear to me in your comment above that I initially responded to. In my opinion, unless you are able to figure out a way to constructively address issues of mutual concern (meaning issues that directly effect the two of you and your family - and as an aside I don't see it as a necessity to be as intertwined as some folks do) you're going to keep having crisis after crisis.

I'm not sure if my thoughts on how you might address that are relevant, except in the most general terms. As someone for whom sharing concerns in a relationship is not my first instinct, I can tell you that learning to be more open and share some of the emotional burden of looming problems has been invaluable in bringing my wife and I closer over time (perhaps this is more pertinent to your wife than to you), and it's far easier when two minds work to solve a problem than trying to go it alone. I don't know how to make that happen for you. But if my interpretation of your situation is anywhere close to correct, I am fairly confident that if you can bridge that gap, you will, at a minimum, be better prepared to attack problem areas earlier and in better ways.

Sure, I and appreciate your input.

I can only handle so many significant life problems at once, and while I see and agree with your observations (I am the one who wrote the things that you are observing after all) it's just not happening for now.

Finances for now. Other things in their time. if people disagree with my priorities, well that's their right. Try not to throw your hands up in frustration and walk away though. I still value your input.

[RunningMn9]

Just a tip with YNAB, collecting receipts is not a habit that will likely take hold. It’s annoying as hell. When YNAB works best is when you enter the transaction as the transaction is occurring. Whip out phone, enter data, see immediate impact on his transaction impacts things, put phone away.

That’s where YNAB shines. It’s the main reason that I pay the sub fee which gets you the much better app for your phones.

[GreenGoo]

Just a tip with YNAB, collecting receipts is not a habit that will likely take hold. It’s annoying as hell. When YNAB works best is when you enter the transaction as the transaction is occurring. Whip out phone, enter data, see immediate impact on his transaction impacts things, put phone away.

That’s where YNAB shines. It’s the main reason that I pay the sub fee which gets you the much better app for your phones.

Thanks for the advice. I don't have the subscription service, just the stand alone from the before times. You probably don't remember but I love the idea of Mint, but I am adverse to giving 3rd parties access to my accounts. We disagree on that but I do understand your viewpoint, so no need to rehash that topic. Also, banks have made progress by creating "read-only" access and other things that allow automation will reducing security risk, so things are different (or at least I think they are) since the last time we discussed it.

I admit I haven't delved deeply into YNAB yet. Like other expenses, I expect to at least keep track of groceries, and that's where the receipt comment comes in.

We'll see how it goes. I plan on reporting back as things progress. I'm moving slowly, I fully admit. But I am moving.

[Smoove_B]

I'm with Geezer in that there's definitely larger issues here and that money is likely one of a few (many?) ways they're being expressed. This isn't to say you shouldn't focus on the money, but realize (and I think you have) the discussions might start to get much larger (and heavier).

With that being said, my guess (and experience) is that step one is easy - looking at gross money in vs gross money out. The difficult part will be in reconciling the two - not as individuals, but as a household.

Again, it's not about evaluation at this point. Don't get bogged down in the why or how ("We spent how much on food? We spent how much on children's clothes?") - none of that matters now. More than anything you need to get a framework around in vs out. Once that framework exists, then you can begin to categorize expenses (household, children, utilities, medical, loans, auto, leisure, etc...) and begin to come up with a plan on where adjustments will need to be made.

For reference, I don't use spreadsheets, YNAB or any type of formal system. I apparently unknowingly re-created the Dave Ramsey envelop system on my own. I guess the difference is that he's a well-respected (and wealthy) author and I'm just some rando in NJ. From what I understand, the electronic systems do this for you, but I don't have experience with any of them. It's also a system (like RM9 said earlier) that I set up years ago but have since abandoned. Abandoned in the sense that I'm not constantly checking things or monitoring various "ghost" accounts I set up to figure out a general budget. Things more or less manage themselves now and have been running smoothly for years.

I don't think any of it matters as much as finding a process that works for your family and then sticking to it.

[RunningMn9]

Yeah, YNAB uses read-only tokens to get data, but you don’t need to have any of your accounts set up for direct import if you don’t want to. The biggest difference between the different versions is that I don’t have to have a file that contains the data, which I have to share via Dropbox or something. All of the phone apps and web application always have access to the same data without any third party sharing nonsense.

Smoove, these tools all operate on the same basic premise as the envelope system. They just don’t use actual envelopes because it’s not 1963 anymore.

YNAB is designed to reinforce a singular reality - which is that each and every $1 can do only one thing. It sounds obvious, but most financial issues stem from not respecting that and ending up spending the same $1 several times. The envelope system does the same thing for those Great Depression survivors still operating a cash-only system.

[geezer]

Actually, one step at a time.

Getting a handle on the finances will also be a step towards being less dysfunctional, so I'm going to focus on that while doing my best not to make the relationship worse.

I understand that you have to solve the immediate crisis, but you've also been talking for awhile about wanting to prevent future issues like this, and you've been getting a lot of advice on how to better manage finances. I guess my point is that I suspect that managing finances isn't really the problem, and that really became clear to me in your comment above that I initially responded to. In my opinion, unless you are able to figure out a way to constructively address issues of mutual concern (meaning issues that directly effect the two of you and your family - and as an aside I don't see it as a necessity to be as intertwined as some folks do) you're going to keep having crisis after crisis.

I'm not sure if my thoughts on how you might address that are relevant, except in the most general terms. As someone for whom sharing concerns in a relationship is not my first instinct, I can tell you that learning to be more open and share some of the emotional burden of looming problems has been invaluable in bringing my wife and I closer over time (perhaps this is more pertinent to your wife than to you), and it's far easier when two minds work to solve a problem than trying to go it alone. I don't know how to make that happen for you. But if my interpretation of your situation is anywhere close to correct, I am fairly confident that if you can bridge that gap, you will, at a minimum, be better prepared to attack problem areas earlier and in better ways.

Sure, I and appreciate your input.

I can only handle so many significant life problems at once, and while I see and agree with your observations (I am the one who wrote the things that you are observing after all) it's just not happening for now.

Finances for now. Other things in their time. if people disagree with my priorities, well that's their right. Try not to throw your hands up in frustration and walk away though. I still value your input.

Fair enough On the more meta side of things, it's not really my place to get frustrated or not, or to agree or disagree with what you take from my comments. You could write books on this over years, and you'd still know more about the situation and the personalities involved than I ever could. I see that you and your family are in conflict, and maybe we have some perspective that you don't (just by virtue of being in the middle of it all), so hopefully something someone here says will trigger a thought or an idea that maybe you missed or disregarded before, and it will help you toward a solution. As part of a family that has a much more separate financial setup with my wife than most here do, maybe that's why I key on the communication aspect being more important than the actual financial issue as the secret to your future success.

[Blackhawk]

It sounds obvious, but most financial issues stem from not respecting that and ending up spending the same $1 several times.

Oh, god yes. I've found that there is nothing more disastrous for my finances than having 'enough' rather than a specific number.

[GreenGoo]

Fair enough On the more meta side of things, it's not really my place to get frustrated or not, or to agree or disagree with what you take from my comments. You could write books on this over years, and you'd still know more about the situation and the personalities involved than I ever could. I see that you and your family are in conflict, and maybe we have some perspective that you don't (just by virtue of being in the middle of it all), so hopefully something someone here says will trigger a thought or an idea that maybe you missed or disregarded before, and it will help you toward a solution. As part of a family that has a much more separate financial setup with my wife than most here do, maybe that's why I key on the communication aspect being more important than the actual financial issue as the secret to your future success.

Again sure, and just so we're clear you're not wrong in your observations.

[GreenGoo]

With that being said, my guess (and experience) is that step one is easy - looking at gross money in vs gross money out. The difficult part will be in reconciling the two - not as individuals, but as a household.

If you mean reconciling them as an accounting term (ie. balance) even that shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

If you mean reconciling them in terms of accepting them and finding peace with them, well, it's math. The emotions will play themselves out as they will. If you want to be unhappy that the earth orbits the sun that's on you, but there's no changing it.

Up until now we've just agreed to not talk about the earth/sun relationship. That has resulted in us missing the winter solstice. That's not the solstice's or the earth/sun's fault.

How's that for tortured analogy?

[Blackhawk]

FWIW, I get your approach. It's what I'd probably do myself. First, address the immediate crisis. Once that's in hand, address the issue that caused the crisis to ease up the pressure. Then, finally, address the larger, underlying issues.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel all at once. Trying to do so, at least for me, is more likely to result in complete failure. Small, steady changes stick, as long as they're ongoing.

[GreenGoo]

Smoove, these tools all operate on the same basic premise as the envelope system. They just don’t use actual envelopes because it’s not 1963 anymore.

True, but the people involved are all still cave men. That's what the system(s) is(are) for. Cave men. Cave men do things because of how they feel. Sometimes what they feel is logical. Sometimes it's not. The systems take the feels out of the equation so everyone is on the same playing field. That's why they work. Not because of futuristic robots or the invention of the printing press.

With that aside, I like futuristic robots. A like a LOT of what Rmn9 does. I like the idea of Mint and everything tied together through automation and communications. There are reasons that make me hesitate, but the whole thing is very cool. Slick, even.

[GreenGoo]

There's no need to reinvent the wheel all at once. Trying to do so, at least for me, is more likely to result in complete failure. Small, steady changes stick, as long as they're ongoing.

Thank you. It is GUARANTEED failure for me, so I'm not going to try (all at once).

Me and my family have many flaws. Maybe more than most. Less than some. Trying to move from "we're being sued for non-payment" to perfect family in one massive effort is not happening, as much as it would be nice to be able to do so.

Maybe when I was 25 I would think otherwise, but I'm nearly 50 and I have a LOT of failures under my belt. Understanding my limitations and working within them instead of pretending they don't exist is the key to any success for me, these days.

Oh the whole I'm feeling positive and moving in the right direction. 2 weeks ago I wasn't. That's good enough, for now.

[Smoove_B]

If you mean reconciling them as an accounting term (ie. balance) even that shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

I meant it as a true accounting - in vs out. And you're right - it won't be hard to figure out. However, I suspect when you (both) see it listed for the first time, there's going to be some negative reactions - particularly if the math doesn't add up. At some point you might even feel the urge to figure out the finer details of how or where - resist. At least until you're sure you have the broad strokes figure out.

My own personal belief is that these types of problems exist because couples don't talk about money. They might individually understand bits and pieces of the overall financials, but they're not looking at the entire state of what's coming in (total) vs what's going out (total). And if that's a function of how you (collective) pay your bills or divide up household responsibilities, this will be your (collective) moment of truth.

Regardless, I still must reiterate that this will only work with 100% transparency.

With that aside, I like futuristic robots. A like a LOT of what Rmn9 does. I like the idea of Mint and everything tied together through automation and communications. There are reasons that make me hesitate, but the whole thing is very cool. Slick, even.

You can. But I've also discovered that budgeting = pain, particularly for people that aren't comfortable with the idea. And when you introduce a system where you need to fire up a computer, cross check a ledger, sync an app, download updates, etc... you've now created potential excuses as to why you're not going to do it. Don't let the system become the barrier. Find a system that works for you both.

[The Meal]

How To Build Credit

[GreenGoo]

How To Build Credit

Thanks very much.

Just haven't gotten to it yet. This is one of the steps, just not the step I'm on today.

[GreenGoo]

Credit Rating Report purchased from Equifax Canada. I have not looked at the details yet. I have no idea how their score compares to a FICO score or if it is a FICO score or how any of it works. The industry likes to keep it secret. This is what it says at the top of the report.

Credit Score
--------
Equifax
----------
828 Excellent
as of 2018/09/03

To be honest I'm pleasantly surprised. Being told you're a good boy is still remarkably satisfying, even nearing 50yo.

I'm slightly afraid to run my wife's now. A little because of what might be in it, and a lot because my wife just worked 3 nights in a row and she's an exhausted pitbull when that happens. Of course I don't need to discuss it with her right away and I probably won't. Still, I'm reluctant to do it at all.

edit: Holy shit she just walked in while I was writing. Of course I'm completely comfortable what what I'm writing, I just don't (edit: Added the word "don't". Suddenly everything changes) want to deal with it right NOW.

[RunningMn9]

But I've also discovered that budgeting = pain, particularly for people that aren't comfortable with the idea. And when you introduce a system where you need to fire up a computer, cross check a ledger, sync an app, download updates, etc... you've now created potential excuses as to why you're not going to do it. Don't let the system become the barrier. Find a system that works for you both.

In this case, the “system” does all the work. YNAB works best when take about 1 second to log a transaction as it happens. If you do that, there’s no more work to be done. The direct importing of data is simple to make sure nothing gets missed, and is handled on my phone without any effort. It tells me when transactions were imported and it’s generally just a matter of swiping that it matched correctly to what I already entered.

Sort of like people are supposed to do when reconciling their checking account, which people should already do.

In GG’s case, I think there at two things this sort of analysis can help them with. The first is simple so that both people can see the full picture. The second is so that people can directly see the impact of their choices.

As an example, it’s one thing to pay groceries and have that money come out of your groceries virtual envelop. What about when paying interest on a credit card? That money has to come from somewhere. What about when you get sued for some debt? If GG has been patiently filling a virtual envelope for family vacation, and the only way to deal with the crisis is to empty that bucket and use that to pay the debt, well, seeing that direct consequence has a pretty sizable impact.

If the only way to deal with a crisis was to make eye contact while you dramatically empty the family vacation envelope, perhaps that would convey the consequences in such a way without you even having to say anything.

[GreenGoo]

Running my wife's report has resulted in a report that is not hers. i.e. the report belongs to someone else. The report is basically empty with none of her accounts listed, and 1 account that is not hers. They don't ask for a full sin number and in fact only "double check" that they have the right report by giving you a multiple choice question with the last 4 digits of the SIN listed. None of the ones they offered were hers, so the answer was none of the above.

I'm not sure how that happened but I'll have to contact equifax and get it figured out.

[RunningMn9]

That’s nice that they just gave you someone else’s report.

[GreenGoo]

That’s nice that they just gave you someone else’s report.

Very. On the plus side it's basically an empty report, so as far as privacy violations, it's essentially harmless. Of course if it were me I'd be furious, if I found out.

Also, oh fuck. She never changed her name with the SIN (social insurance number is what Canadians call their SSN) people when we got married TWENTY YEARS ago.

Geezus Christ. That means she has credit data under two names at once which is going to make even this basic task of obtaining a credit report or a clear picture of her credit situation a cluster fuck.

Less importantly, it's against the law, as you must change your SIN information when you marry *if* you change your name, which...I thought(?) she had.

I think I might be married to Bonnie Parker.

...help?