Parenting Randomness

[Blackhawk]

A big chunk of the active forum members are in the same age group, and a lot of us are dealing with kids either in, or preparing for college. I figured we should have a place to talk about it without derailing (or carrying the baggage from) the New Bubble thread.

I'm carrying this over from a discussion there a few weeks ago. Quoting myself:

And then you have my oldest. He's a few weeks from 17, just started his junior year, and college has been on all of our minds lately. He's autistic and fairly high functioning (PDD/NOS if that matters), but has significant social issues. He can work with other people if he needs to, but never comes off as personable, and only gets his best work done working alone. He can explain a concept just fine, but when it comes to interactive chatter, either social or technical, he falls flat. My honest assessment is that, unless he can get a degree in something he loves for which the demand people with a degree outweighs the difficulties involved in hiring him, he'll probably end up on disability within a few years of high school. I don't think he could handle a 9-5 doing something he hated. It is his only real chance at a normal life.

With that bouncing through my mind, this entire topic scares the hell out of me. I don't see a solution beyond 'take the shot and hope.'

FWIW, he wants to study engineering, and he is extremely mathematically talented.

And Meal said:

Autism and programming are good fits. You can be on the spectrum and perform well as an engineer, but you're fighting up hill as that's a fairly social endeavor (just not in what is considered a typical social manner). I've worked with autistic technicians and generally they've been amazing, (assuming they find the right fit). Sort of sucks because there are miles of differences between engineers and technicians that don't also involve in-person communication or the ability to ad lib when conditions change.

I'm super generalizing here. There will be engineering roles for which autism is not at all a detriment, but those are not the standard. Obviously there are inputs and outputs that go along with programming (i.e., oral communication), but there are many situations where you are your own god for the bulk of the work—or where technical specs are communicated in non-verbal ways.

Good luck fathers-with-STEM-oriented-children-on-the-spectrum. Your sons' specific details will be much more important than my generalizations based on but one person's experiences.

This has been a major thing around here for the last couple of months. I'm wanting to introduce him to the idea of programming as a career. Not push it on him or convince him of it, just get him familiar with the option. I've found a few good books on choosing engineering as a career, detailing different specialties, requirements, and so forth. Engineering is rather easy to find reference professional guidance materials on, as there aren't many books and discussions of amateur engineering. Programming, on other hand, is a morass. It's impossible to researching it without digging through thousands of pages of Unity tutorials, fluff books, and smartassery.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

[Zork]

There are several sites that offer free (or nearly free) online tutorials for programming. It seems like the most popular site is Code Academy.

There is also Free Code Camp and Khan Academy.

I tried to introduce programming to my middle daughter when she was a sophomore in high school using Code Academy. She went through several lessons but it didn't "grab" her like it did me at her age.

-Zork

[Isgrimnur]

Department of Labor Occupational Outlook Handbook - Computer Programmers

Summary
What They Do
Work Environment
How to Become One
Pay
Job Outlook
State & Area Data
Similar Occupations
More Info

Book: Code Complete

[Scuzz]

I have two kids with college degrees living at home with us right now.

[Zork]

With regards to the general topic of kids and college, I thought I would share my story.

We live in a semi-affluent area. We're not "rich", but are comfortable middle class. Several of my kid's friends received very nice cars on their 16th birthday (new Mustang GTs, Jeeps, etc.). My kids got hand-me-down vehicles or saved up and bought themselves reasonable used cars for $3-4k.

Both my wife and I went to junior college in California before going to a 4-year college. I got a football scholarship to a 4-year college as a JC transfer. Even with the full scholarship, I still graduated college with some debt (around $10k). My wife never graduated but left college with around $10k in student loans (we were married, had a kid and moved before she could finish). We both agreed that we wanted our kids to graduate from college or trade school with no debt. Somewhere around 9th or 10th grade we started talking to our kids about junior college.

My oldest who graduated high school in 2012 didn't want anything to do with college. She decided on the "college of life" as she put it so we did not force her. I think she's starting to regret that decision, but we each need to follow our own path. She's married and any school/training will have to come out of her own pocket now.

Our second daughter who graduated high school in 2015 was interested in college and wanted to be an actress. I told her she could take theatre classes in college but she needed to pick a more realistic major that had better application in the workforce. It could be related to movies and/or TV, but she needed a backup plan. She was a very good student in high school. She took dual-enrollment/honors classes and graduated high school with a 3.9 GPA and 40 college credits. She was still undecided on a major her senior year so I told her she was going to junior college. She wasn't thrilled with that idea, but given the fact that she didn't know what she wanted to do a 4-year college didn't make sense yet. It didn't help that a lot of her friends were attending 4-year colleges straight out of high school and she felt embarrassed when telling her friends where she was going. I told her that I didn't know her friend's parent's financial situation, but I knew ours and she was going to junior college. She ended up getting a full scholarship while in junior college and I told her to use that time as an opportunity to try different classes to see if she gravitated toward any specific fields of study. After her second semester, she picked business communications and graduated with two AA degrees. One in general studies and one in business communications. She's now attending Arizona State University (ASU) in the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism.

Our youngest graduated high school in 2017 and is also attending junior college first. He was a good (but not great) student in high school. He took a few dual-enrollment classes and graduated with a 3.25 GPA. I don't mean that as a back-handed compliment. He did WAY better than I ever did in high school. Junior college was an easier pill for him to swallow since his older sister did it. He also received the Presidential Scholarship that pays for his four semesters there. After he completes his general education classes, he will be transferring to ASU to get his bachelor's degree in Kinesiology and will ultimately be working toward a doctorate in physical therapy.

Both of the kids in college are still living at home. They have both expressed interest in moving out (I'm sure I'm driving them crazy even though we hardly see them). But we have convinced them to stay in the house until they get their bachelor's degrees. We do charge them $400/month in rent that I consider a forced savings account. Rent is due on the 1st of every month. I don't remind them about the rent and charge $5/day in late fees. When they graduate they will get all of that money back. They also pay for their own cell phones, gym memberships, auto registration and repairs. We still pay for their car insurance, although I would like them to get on their own plans soon.

Where I am struggling right now is getting my kids to apply for scholarships. We have some money set aside in Education Savings Accounts (ESAs) to help pay for their college, but I want my kids to have some skin in the game. Especially since my son will be getting a doctorate if he sticks with his physical therapy plan and that will not be cheap. When my daughter transferred to ASU she had applied for zero scholarships up to that point so I made her pay the $6,600 for her first semester. My wife was not too thrilled with me, but my daughter had more than enough saved up to pay for it. After that, she started applying to as many scholarships as she could and received her first scholarship a few months ago. It's a small scholarship (only $1,200) but I told her she only needs about 10 more of those and her college will be paid for. I ended up paying her back for her first semester last month by taking the money out of her ESA. I warned my son that if he did not apply to at least 50 scholarships before transferring to ASU he will be paying for his first semester just like his sister did. I'm really struggling between letting my kids figure it all out themselves (which they appear to have little to no interest in doing) and nudging them along the way.

-Zork

[GreenGoo]

Great read, Zork. Thanks for sharing.

[hitbyambulance]

my kid's going to a junior college right now - seems he's going the 2-year AA path and will apply credits to a 4-year school. he still has no idea what he wants to do, so this school year he's taking 100-level humanities courses this semester, and 100-level sciences/math next semester (his decision). still pushing for him to get his driver's license - he's had a learner's permit the past year and a half. he lives with his mom, so it's up to her to get him to do things.

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for the input. I still haven't found quite what I'm looking for. Let me give an example for engineering: Is There an Engineer Inside You? has turned out to be a great book. It covers what engineering is, discusses the different branches of engineering and what's involved in a career in each, discusses what to study, and what to expect in college when studying engineering. It takes you from 'engineering is cool' to having a solid idea of what the options are, and it does so in a readable manner to keep a teenager interested.

That's sort of what I need for programming. There are so many books out there, and I'm so far out of the loop on the subject that I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Should I be looking for a book on programming specifically? On computer science (does programming fit under that label?) Something else?

[Scuzz]

Both my kids went the JC route before getting BA's. It is the only way it made financial sense, at least for us.

[Isgrimnur]

I went out of state to a 4-year for my first year, selected a field that I didn't have a great aptitude for, never went to class, and got kicked out for a year with a 0.667 GPA. I at least had some scholarships to cover some of the costs, but did accrue some debt.

It's not a method I recommend.

[EvilHomer3k]

I work at a small private college. My kids get free tuition to that school and about 80% to other schools. I don't make anywhere near what I'd make someplace that's a business. Heck, I don't make anywhere near what I made at the last private college I worked at. But this college is in town and the kids can go there and live off campus. If I stay here (which isn't a given as we are thinking of moving to CO) they'll be able to go to school for the cost of various student fees and books. I do want them to stay in the dorms for 1 year to get that experience but we have a 929 account that should cover that.

My oldest is a sophomore and the second oldest is in 8th grade. Not sure what either will do. The oldest is interested in game design but mostly, he's interested in playing video games. The middle child is, like BH's son, high functioning autistic. He doesn't like groups but loves working with adults. One thing to note, BH, is that smaller private colleges are generally going to bend over backwards to accommodate students with different needs. That is especially true right now. Assume that the cost to go there is at least half of the sticker price. Both of the ones I have worked at have a discount rate of 50% or more (i.e. the average student pays half of what the listed cost is). Generally, the only students paying full price are foreign exchange students and very well off students. Not all private colleges are like that but a lot are. If you look at their enrollment now and 10 years ago, the ones with lower enrollment will likely have a higher discount rate so they can increase numbers. State schools in Iowa generally give you scholarships based on your ACT/SAT. That weighs more for them than HS GPA.

If I didn't work at a college, we would be pushing community college as well. I did that for two years and ended up with very little debt. I also worked 30-40 hours per week going to school as well.

By the time our youngest goes to school I'm assuming college will only be affordable by the super-rich as tuition seems to go up at an insane rate.

[RunningMn9]

Book: Code Complete

Dear God no.

This is a classic book in the software engineering field, but it is no way a book for anyone without a few years as a professional already. I mean, it’s not complicated such that it can’t be read by a non-professional, but the lessons it teaches won’t have any real impact without a taste of what it’s like to not engineer your software.

I’m not aware of any such book on this topic for you Blackhawk. The traditional part for entry into the field is by learning to program and having an aptitude for it. The rest kind of takes care of itself.

And while the fundamentals of the job can be similar - there are fundamental similarities between the job I do now (writing Android apps for Army) and the job I started out doing (writing Windows NT device drivers for telecommunications products). But despite that the jobs themselves are almost nothing alike. And neither is anything like working as a programmer in the financial sector, or the video game industry, or the cyber security field.

It’s all programming but it’s all pretty different. And then there’s software engineering, which can also be a very different job (and again which varies by industry).

(Pet Peeve: Software Engineering != Computer Science)

Let me think for a bit and see if there’s anything I can come up with in book form for you.

[Jag]

I'm carrying this over from a discussion there a few weeks ago. Quoting myself:

And then you have my oldest. He's a few weeks from 17, just started his junior year, and college has been on all of our minds lately. He's autistic and fairly high functioning (PDD/NOS if that matters), but has significant social issues. He can work with other people if he needs to, but never comes off as personable, and only gets his best work done working alone. He can explain a concept just fine, but when it comes to interactive chatter, either social or technical, he falls flat. My honest assessment is that, unless he can get a degree in something he loves for which the demand people with a degree outweighs the difficulties involved in hiring him, he'll probably end up on disability within a few years of high school. I don't think he could handle a 9-5 doing something he hated. It is his only real chance at a normal life.

With that bouncing through my mind, this entire topic scares the hell out of me. I don't see a solution beyond 'take the shot and hope.'

FWIW, he wants to study engineering, and he is extremely mathematically talented.

You just described my youngest son who is in 9th grade and we are already dreading college. We've been told he's "on the spectrum" but high functioning too. You wouldn't be able to tell unless you knew what to look for. He doesn't have any friends because of his inability to read social situations or make any effort. To be fair, his last efforts resulted in tons of bullying after which we pulled him from the school. So I think he is still very scarred from the experience.

He is also good at math, although he will say he is not smart. His therapist says that his brain has convinced him that he's worthless.

My thought of a professional career trajectory was accounting. It fits in with his other issues, primarily OCD. Engineering is not a bad idea, but he not shown any interest in it. I think you can always get a job as accountant and people aren't surprised if they are socially "off" (sorry to any accountants on the board!).

[The Meal]

I'd point someone with interest in applied math-but-not-engineering towards actuarial services. They do some really cool mathy modeling without all the frightening physics and/or chemistry concerns.

[Isgrimnur]

I'd point someone with interest in applied math-but-not-engineering towards actuarial services. They do some really cool mathy modeling without all the frightening physics and/or chemistry concerns.

And with actuarial work, the people are already dead!

[coopasonic]

(Pet Peeve: Software Engineering != Computer Science)

As a guy with a Comp Sci degree and Master Software Engineer title along with 25 years programming experience you would think I'd know the distinction.

I do not.

Also, as RM9 points out, programming covers a very broad range of jobs. I've been doing it for 25 years but would be completely useless at either of the jobs RM9 mentions. Isgrimnur and I work in the same industry but do completely different things so you can't even count on that.

I would say that a Comp Sci degree is pretty useful generically for a programming career, primarily for understanding of programming language concepts. I didn't really do any meaningful programming before starting college so that's not even necessary. I guess I just assumed I would be good at it.

[Hamlet3145]

I'm a university instructor. I have been for years. In that time, I've taught almost entirely online.

There are quite a few spectacularly crappy online programs out there. However, there are also some quite legit, regionally accredited (that's the better tier of accredited) non-profit, affordable options. Just to bring up a non-traditional higher ed option, I've found that some students who might struggle in a traditional university program can excel online.

Two that I bring up regularly when asked for recommendations are Brandman University and Western Governor's University. Both are regionally accredited non-profits. Brandman is the online campus of the Chapman University system in California. It offers the online experience of set terms and having classmates, etc.

Linky: https://www.brandman.edu/

Western Governor's is something different. It uses a competency based model. Their website would do a better job of explaining than I can, but basically you are granted credits based on demonstrated competence in a subject, rather that taking a class on a subject. Instead you do a bunch of one on one guided independent study under subject experts (of all which, last time I checked, are required to be Ph.Ds). The upshot to all of this is that for a focused student, you can walk away with a fully accredited bachelor's degree in much less time and for much less money than a traditional brick & mortar school or even a more traditionally arranged online program. They have a slew of IT degrees available.

Linky: https://www.wgu.edu/

Both of these, of course, are eligible for all the usual federal financial aid options. Anyhow, just another thought to throw on the thought pile.

[GreenGoo]

Don't you guys have Big Brother regulating everything?

In Canada, if you're gonna call yourself a university or even college, you're gonna need to be certified by the state.

If you're not cert'd, no Uni/Col designation.

So Universities and Colleges who offer online courses are going to be at least a little diligent about the quality of the course, otherwise bad things happen to them. That's not to say that every place is just as awesome as every other place or that poor quality doesn't sneak in, but it is a barrier to the drumpf's of the world opening up a boiler room in Canada and calling it a college.

I assume the DeVry's of the world can still make money up here, but it's pretty clear that they are not the equivalent of a post-secondary institution. You'd have to be spectacularly ill-informed to make that mistake.

edit: The very idea of a for-profit educational institution sets off all sorts of alarms. I sympathize with American kids trying to get ahead in life.

For reference, here's the wiki on for-profit in Canada.

for-profit universities/colleges in Canada

There are 7 in total, apparently. In contrast, Ontario alone has nearly 50 non-profit institutions.

[RunningMn9]

As a guy with a Comp Sci degree and Master Software Engineer title along with 25 years programming experience you would think I'd know the distinction.

I do not.

The smarmy answer starts with Engineering school vs Liberal Arts education., but that’s the snob in me talking.

In practical terms, both Software Engineers and Computer Scientists are built around programming. The simplest way to describe the contrast is that CS is focused more on algorithm development. SE focus more on applying the algorithm to a real world problem.

By way of example, the algorithms that we use to simulate the flight of indirect ordinance is written by Computer Scientists. The application that uses that is written by programmers. In theory, it could (or should) have been architected by engineers, but there are very few of us here, so generally the software looks like CompSci folks designed it.

But having suffered greatly through engineering school, it annoys me when non-engineers pretend to be engineers. Normally it doesn’t actually annoy me at all, I just like to joke with the CS folks that it does. But one lady used to make a point of identifying herself as an engineer (which is something I don’t do, as what we do isn’t really engineering - I always identify as software developer or subject matter expert depending on the role I have in the meeting I’m in).

So one day I responding with “Oh, I didn’t know that you went to Engineering school, which one?”. She mumbled that she didn’t actually go to Engineering school and stopped doing it. It was very satisfying.

[RunningMn9]

And I should point out that I make no value assessment on Software Engineer vs Computer Scientist. They are both hard, and they are both important. They are just different. The dudes designing languages and writing compilers and shit are incredibly talented and do work that I couldn’t do (certainly not nearly as well). That’s why I don’t erroneously tell people that I’m a Computer Scientist.

[GreenGoo]

As a guy with a Comp Sci degree and Master Software Engineer title along with 25 years programming experience you would think I'd know the distinction.

I do not.

The smarmy answer starts with Engineering school vs Liberal Arts education., but that’s the snob in me talking.

In practical terms, both Software Engineers and Computer Scientists are built around programming. The simplest way to describe the contrast is that CS is focused more on algorithm development. SE focus more on applying the algorithm to a real world problem.

Same thing in more traditional engineering disciplines. First and second year physics and math courses have science and math majors in them. Only the (mechanical) engineers have entire courses dedicated to the inner workings of steam engines however. And yes, there are tons and tons of applications for steam engines, still.

But having suffered greatly through engineering school, it annoys me when non-engineers pretend to be engineers. Normally it doesn’t actually annoy me at all, I just like to joke with the CS folks that it does. But one lady used to make a point of identifying herself as an engineer (which is something I don’t do, as what we do isn’t really engineering - I always identify as software developer or subject matter expert depending on the role I have in the meeting I’m in).

So one day I responding with “Oh, I didn’t know that you went to Engineering school, which one?”. She mumbled that she didn’t actually go to Engineering school and stopped doing it. It was very satisfying.

A Software Architect is (unofficially) someone with a CompSci degree, assuming they are designing significant software systems, and not website input forms.

Software Architect is not a thing outside of the imagination, so they use it without risk of running afoul of the Rmn9's of the world (which I happen to agree with in this case, however I am not an engineer, so I don't call out others).

[dobberhd]

I'm a university instructor. I have been for years. In that time, I've taught almost entirely online.

There are quite a few spectacularly crappy online programs out there. However, there are also some quite legit, regionally accredited (that's the better tier of accredited) non-profit, affordable options. Just to bring up a non-traditional higher ed option, I've found that some students who might struggle in a traditional university program can excel online.

Two that I bring up regularly when asked for recommendations are Brandman University and Western Governor's University. Both are regionally accredited non-profits. Brandman is the online campus of the Chapman University system in California. It offers the online experience of set terms and having classmates, etc.

Linky: https://www.brandman.edu/

Western Governor's is something different. It uses a competency based model. Their website would do a better job of explaining than I can, but basically you are granted credits based on demonstrated competence in a subject, rather that taking a class on a subject. Instead you do a bunch of one on one guided independent study under subject experts (of all which, last time I checked, are required to be Ph.Ds). The upshot to all of this is that for a focused student, you can walk away with a fully accredited bachelor's degree in much less time and for much less money than a traditional brick & mortar school or even a more traditionally arranged online program. They have a slew of IT degrees available.

Linky: https://www.wgu.edu/

Both of these, of course, are eligible for all the usual federal financial aid options. Anyhow, just another thought to throw on the thought pile.

I can speak to the quality of WGU. I finished a Masters in Chemistry Education with them in 5 months. They do a decent job of lining up the hoops, but providing the scaffolding to make sure you can jump through each of them. Since I teach Chemistry, the majority of the hoops were easy to jump through.

[Default]

WGU is great IF YOU ARE ALREADY IN THE FIELD YOU WANT TO WORK IN.

I went to WGU and could not get a sniff at a job interview in Philly. In retrospect, I should have dealt with the personal upheaval that dealing with Drexel entailed, or banked the money and humped mail instead. I would have been ahead of the game.

[Default]

It was a waste of money, even if I blew through the program and finished early.

[RunningMn9]

A Software Architect is (unofficially) someone with a CompSci degree, assuming they are designing significant software systems, and not website input forms.

Software Architect is not a thing outside of the imagination, so they use it without risk of running afoul of the Rmn9's of the world (which I happen to agree with in this case, however I am not an engineer, so I don't call out others).

Software Architect is a job. You can hire anyone with a programming background to do it, and people with either background are capable of doing the job. However, software engineering is significantly better preparation for the role of Architect than CompSci.

Certainly there are excellent CompSci folks that can make excellent Software Architects. I’m just talking about the education side of things. Software Architecture is much more about broad application of systems thinking, which is almost the entire point of Software Engineering.

Implementing the blocks that make up a complex system? A CompSci education specifically targets that. Designing the system that properly fits all those blocks together? A Software Engineering education targets that.

A good software team needs both.

[GreenGoo]

Shrug.

[EvilHomer3k]

Don't you guys have Big Brother regulating everything?

In Canada, if you're gonna call yourself a university or even college, you're gonna need to be certified by the state.

If you're not cert'd, no Uni/Col designation.

Yes, there is an accreditation process that all colleges and universities must go through. If you lose that you can't give out degrees.

[GreenGoo]

Ok, cool. Is it by state or federal or...?

Are the same standards applied across states? Does accreditation in California mean the same thing in Utah?

[Isgrimnur]

It depends.

[GreenGoo]

Holy shit, you use private accreditors to evaluate for-profit institutions?

It's just capitalism all the way down for you people isn't it?

Everybody gets a piece of the action.

I don't know exactly how Canadian institutions are evaluated.

American contractors I assume.

[Blackhawk]

I changed the title to something that I think would be handy.

Here's the latest headache from the Hawk House: Keeping my kids busy. Right now it is a Saturday afternoon. We have plans in about three hours. Until then it is empty time. For the next three hours, though, we're hitting a wall (this isn't about the next three hours - it's about every day. I'm just using today as an example.)

The kids will have a few hours of gaming time tonight. The one thing we cannot do is let them game non-stop every time they have a few minutes (or hours) free. If we did, they'd quickly enter a state where every free moment is spent with a video game, and that's not OK. It's straight up harmful (and I say this as a person who's been playing video games for most of the past several decades.)

If we tell them 'find something to do', they will both just sit and stare at the wall.
The eldest isn't in a place to get a job right now. The younger... it bears looking into.
We live in the middle of nowhere. There are no places to go, nowhere to hang out.
We live in a different county from their school, so they have no friends around here.
Neither can drive (one is too young, the other is not ready.)
We can't actively entertain them every free moment.
Chores only go so far.

Ugh.

[Isgrimnur]

Hobbies. Coding, scale modeling, miniature painting, pleasure reading, bike riding, ...

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I can take a photo of my unpainted miniatures and you can threaten them with chain-gang work if they don't figure something out on their own.

[Freyland]

Competitive Sudoku.

Hand out copies and whoever can complete correctly the most in a given time period gets to have "X" amount of more gaming time.

[LawBeefaroni]

Back in the olden days, when I was a kid, I read books during downtime.

[Zarathud]

My kids read and watch Pokemon TV.

[Jeff V]

I tell my kids "let's watch a movie." Then I indulge them on their choice of movie (usually, "scary" movie, but sometimes kids movie). They will watch attentively sometimes for as long as 10 minutes before they wander off and find something else to do. They'll come back 30 minutes later and find me watching another movie and ask "what happened to our movie?"

[GreenGoo]

My eldest, who is not athletic, and possibly has some physical impairments based on a borderline Asperger's diagnosis when he was very young, has been trying REALLY HARD in his HS phys-ed class. This is after a talk we had about how important fitness is for a healthy lifestyle for the rest of his life, not just as a kid.

As I have said repeatedly here, I was a multi-letter athlete and even played college volleyball (which I acquired an interest in late, compared to my other sports). Despite that, I have put exactly zero athletic expectations on my kids, and they have met every one of them.

The point of this post is how proud I am of my son's efforts. He is not physically skilled, he is not in great shape, he is not strong, yet he is giving it his all and to the best of my knowledge is not getting discouraged. We are seeing marked improvement in his phys-ed marks and teacher comments, and when we discuss his efforts, he's so proud that the number of pushups and situps he can do now compared to the start of school has continue to go up, as well as his run times and how long he can run without becoming too winded to continue.

Very proud of him. Because I was so good at most things, when I wasn't (I was a TERRIBLE baseball player for example) I would be crushed and easily discouraged, giving up too easily. My son is just putting his head down, nose to the grindstone, and has moved from near the bottom of his class right into the middle of it. That is amazing.

Separately, it doesn't hurt that he's a polite, quiet spoken, calm and rarely angered individual who gets TONS of compliments from his friends parents (to him and to us). Sometimes he'll get invited to someone's house by THE PARENTS to come over and play with their kid. Which is not to say that the kid won't invite him himself, it's just that sometimes if the parents get a say, they pick my son to come over. Which is kind of amazing.

My son is turning out pretty alright, despite my best efforts otherwise.

Great kid.

[coopasonic]

Just to balance that positivity, my 9yo is obnoxious... I mean he acts just like me. My 12yo is actually very friendly, helpful, complimentary... so basically my wife. We are screwed.

[LawBeefaroni]

My daughter has been going to an orthodontist. My son, 2.5 yrs, has been seemingly jealous that she gets to go see "Dr. Sean" so much. So the the other day he said, "Mommy, I need to go see Dr. Sean because my butt is all jacked up!"

While we were at the in-laws this weekend, he was playing with a puzzle and got frustrated, screamed, "Fuck it, just FUCK IT!" and walked into the other room.


So both were hilarious but it got me thinking. The wife and I don't say "jacked up" or "fuck it". We say the f-word of course but not in that context. He started school a month ago and his vocabulary has expanded a lot. Maybe it's from there? That's what I told the shocked in-laws anyway.

Also, his superpower so far is rembering names. We were at a Thanksgiving dinner and there were 15 or so new names. He remembered all of them and I even had to ask him on the sly for ones I had forgotten them. Apparently he can also identify people by their knees. He would run up to people in a crowded room, at knee level and say "Hi [correct name]" much to everyone's amazement.

Then he slapped a baby so was brought back down to Earth.