MLB POST SEASON 2018

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:40 pm Is kicking an opposing player not against MLB rules? It would be weird if that's the case.

Clearly it wasn't because Counsell would have demanded a replay. That's the whole problem. Let's say that the rule was you clip/kick a player and you get ejected and your team gets assigned another out. THEN if he does it, he's called an idiot and he really would be in trouble for his free agency. His manager and teammates would be mad at him as well. He probably wouldn't do it either because he doesn't want that situation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that the problem is in the lack of player safety rules and enforcement.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:40 pm Is kicking an opposing player not against MLB rules? It would be weird if that's the case.
Clearly it wasn't because Counsell would have demanded a replay. That's the whole problem. Let's say that the rule was you clip/kick a player and you get ejected and your team gets assigned another out. THEN if he does it, he's called an idiot and he really would be in trouble for his free agency. His manager and teammates would be mad at him as well. He probably wouldn't do it either because he doesn't want that situation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that the problem is in the lack of player safety rules and enforcement.

That would not have been a reviewable play. Had the umps noticed and thought it was intentional, I believe it would have been within their purview to eject Machado.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:10 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:40 pm Is kicking an opposing player not against MLB rules? It would be weird if that's the case.
Clearly it wasn't because Counsell would have demanded a replay. That's the whole problem. Let's say that the rule was you clip/kick a player and you get ejected and your team gets assigned another out. THEN if he does it, he's called an idiot and he really would be in trouble for his free agency. His manager and teammates would be mad at him as well. He probably wouldn't do it either because he doesn't want that situation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that the problem is in the lack of player safety rules and enforcement.
That would not have been a reviewable play. Had the umps noticed and thought it was intentional, I believe it would have been within their purview to eject Machado.

Also I assume that it wouldn't be an automatic out unless it was also interference. Like, if Machado after the play had just kicked the first basement between pitches, I assume he would be kicked out, but it wouldn't be an out for the Dodgers.

So, there could well be enforcement issues here, but I really don't think it's a lack of rules covering one player intentionally kicking another.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:21 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:40 pm Is kicking an opposing player not against MLB rules? It would be weird if that's the case.
Clearly it wasn't because Counsell would have demanded a replay. That's the whole problem. Let's say that the rule was you clip/kick a player and you get ejected and your team gets assigned another out. THEN if he does it, he's called an idiot and he really would be in trouble for his free agency. His manager and teammates would be mad at him as well. He probably wouldn't do it either because he doesn't want that situation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that the problem is in the lack of player safety rules and enforcement.
That would not have been a reviewable play. Had the umps noticed and thought it was intentional, I believe it would have been within their purview to eject Machado.

The first base umpire is standing right there. He had to have seen it. I'm not coming up with any specific rule about it by googling but you folks may have better luck.

Utley broke that player's leg and he wasn't thrown out, so clearly simply injuring isn't a rule.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Right. They're not going to be able to define every possible thing a player could do to get ejected, so the umps have a lot of leeway. Physically assaulting another player is almost certainly ejectable.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:23 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:21 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:40 pm Is kicking an opposing player not against MLB rules? It would be weird if that's the case.
Clearly it wasn't because Counsell would have demanded a replay. That's the whole problem. Let's say that the rule was you clip/kick a player and you get ejected and your team gets assigned another out. THEN if he does it, he's called an idiot and he really would be in trouble for his free agency. His manager and teammates would be mad at him as well. He probably wouldn't do it either because he doesn't want that situation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that the problem is in the lack of player safety rules and enforcement.
That would not have been a reviewable play. Had the umps noticed and thought it was intentional, I believe it would have been within their purview to eject Machado.
The first base umpire is standing right there. He had to have seen it. I'm not coming up with any specific rule about it by googling but you folks may have better luck.

Are you suggesting that if Machado had slugged Aguilar in the mouth as he crossed first, he would not be able to be ejected because there's no rule that says "A player may not punch another player while running the bases"?

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:24 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:22 pm Right. They're not going to be able to define every possible thing a player could do to get ejected, so the umps have a lot of leeway. Physically assaulting another player is almost certainly ejectable.

In the NFL a clip (which is what that was) is illegal and the team loses 15 yards. In the NBA kicking is a Flagrant 1 and the team gets two free throws and the ball. Why isn't there a rule for the exact same thing in the MLB? And perhaps there will be.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:29 pm

Umpires: Rules of Interest

Rule 9.01(d) wrote:Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field.

Emphasis mine. You don't think that an ump could consider intentionally kicking another player unsportsmanlike?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:33 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:23 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:21 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:06 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:40 pm Is kicking an opposing player not against MLB rules? It would be weird if that's the case.
Clearly it wasn't because Counsell would have demanded a replay. That's the whole problem. Let's say that the rule was you clip/kick a player and you get ejected and your team gets assigned another out. THEN if he does it, he's called an idiot and he really would be in trouble for his free agency. His manager and teammates would be mad at him as well. He probably wouldn't do it either because he doesn't want that situation. And that's what I'm trying to say is that the problem is in the lack of player safety rules and enforcement.
That would not have been a reviewable play. Had the umps noticed and thought it was intentional, I believe it would have been within their purview to eject Machado.
The first base umpire is standing right there. He had to have seen it. I'm not coming up with any specific rule about it by googling but you folks may have better luck.
Are you suggesting that if Machado had slugged Aguilar in the mouth as he crossed first, he would not be able to be ejected because there's no rule that says "A player may not punch another player while running the bases"?

No doubt now that this is clear, the Brewers are going to adopt a policy of systematically punching each Dodger fielder when they reach each base. Nothing the umpires can do about it!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:34 pm

2018 Ejections

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:45 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:29 pm Umpires: Rules of Interest
Rule 9.01(d) wrote:Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field.
Emphasis mine. You don't think that an ump could consider intentionally kicking another player unsportsmanlike?

That's my first thunk. Though if I were the ump I'd really have to be clear it was intentional so as no one in a reasonable state of mind could claim the game is not about the umping. OtOH, if the first base ump is watching as close as he is, you'd think it'd be clear as bells and he wouldn't even defer to the chief, he'd just toss him.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:49 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:45 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:29 pm Umpires: Rules of Interest
Rule 9.01(d) wrote:Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field.
Emphasis mine. You don't think that an ump could consider intentionally kicking another player unsportsmanlike?
That's my first thunk. Though if I were the ump I'd really have to be clear it was intentional so as no one in a reasonable state of mind could claim the game is not about the umping. OtOH, if the first base ump is watching as close as he is, you'd think it'd be clear as bells and he wouldn't even defer to the chief, he'd just toss him.

I mean, I don't see anything in the rules preventing one player from murdering another on the field. That seems like a massive loophole.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:53 pm

My question is, who has the right to the bag?

Are we going with Bryan Bullington or Tim Hudson?

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:00 pm

A dirty play is like pornography - I know it when I see it.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:02 pm

My guess is that in real time the ump wasn't sure that it was intentional, so he played it safe and left him in the game. If you're not pretty sure, I think that's probably the right call. It's not reviewable, so that ends it. Maybe the umps should have given a warning about not doing it again and keeping it clean (and maybe they did).

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:09 pm

Machado was fined an undisclosed amount by MLB.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:00 pm A dirty play is like pornography - I know it when I see it.

I don't think there is any doubt that it was a dirty play and if it happened in the regular season you might see the Brewers retaliate, but in a short series you can't afford to do that. Thankfully the first baseman wasn't hurt, especially since they had no players left on the bench but starting pitchers.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:16 pm

looks obvious that the ump was watching the bag. I will give the MLB the benefit of the doubt that it did not look clear in real time but it does bet the umps to watch Machado closer in the future, which does him no favors.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:18 pm

I think the view down the line from right field makes it pretty clear it was intentional. I don't blame the umps for missing it, though.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm

Astros spying matter closed.

"With respect to both incidents regarding a Houston Astros employee, security identified an issue, addressed it and turned the matter over to the Department of Investigations. A thorough investigation concluded that an Astros employee was monitoring the field to ensure that the opposing Club was not violating any rules," MLB said in a statement.

Riiiiiight.

Although I give them credit for a rapid resolution. The NFL would only have had the chance to start leaking to reports and assembling a team of scientists with ethics concerns by this point.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:32 pm

My only point is that the other leagues have made it a rule, no 'discretion' needed. As it should be.

So we'll never know if let’s say Joe West was first base umpire would have thrown him out. This is dumb in my opinion. Just make a kicking rule, how hard is that.

He'll probably do it again until they do. This is what happened in the NBA. They had to have 'Malice in the Palace' before they realized their game was out of control. I hope the MLB doesn’t wait for a similar incident.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:34 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm Astros spying matter closed.

"With respect to both incidents regarding a Houston Astros employee, security identified an issue, addressed it and turned the matter over to the Department of Investigations. A thorough investigation concluded that an Astros employee was monitoring the field to ensure that the opposing Club was not violating any rules," MLB said in a statement.
Riiiiiight.

Although I give them credit for a rapid resolution. The NFL would only have had the chance to start leaking to reports and assembling a team of scientists with ethics concerns by this point.

TheAthletic.com had a good article about this. They compared this situation with the NFL where the players can wear earpieces to communicate, why not MLB. They can use code words, harder to decipher than hand signs.

Eel Snave · Post by **Eel Snave** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Fuck Manny Machado. I'm glad the Brewers didn't get him.

That is all.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:57 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm Astros spying matter closed.

"With respect to both incidents regarding a Houston Astros employee, security identified an issue, addressed it and turned the matter over to the Department of Investigations. A thorough investigation concluded that an Astros employee was monitoring the field to ensure that the opposing Club was not violating any rules," MLB said in a statement.
Riiiiiight.

Although I give them credit for a rapid resolution. The NFL would only have had the chance to start leaking to reports and assembling a team of scientists with ethics concerns by this point.

This is the sort of thing that I just assume every team is doing to some degree. I assume that if the Astros were doing this way above and beyond other teams, that other teams would kick up more of a public storm about it.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:58 pm

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:51 pm Fuck Manny Machado. I'm glad the Brewers didn't get him.

That is all.

Oh hey, I was wondering if we had any Brewers fans around here. There you are!

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:02 pm

Brewers may still get hm who knows. He’s a rental for the Dodgers.

Eel Snave · Post by **Eel Snave** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:12 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:58 pm
Eel Snave wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:51 pm Fuck Manny Machado. I'm glad the Brewers didn't get him.

That is all.
Oh hey, I was wondering if we had any Brewers fans around here. There you are!

There are dozens of us. DOZENS!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:14 pm

I'll fly the Brewers flag for this year. I've listened to their games in previous years.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:09 pm

So a new controversy. The Brewers put in their 'starter' for one at bat so that the Dodgers would platoon for that pitcher. Then came in for an opposite hander.

Yet another 'unwritten rule'. If MLB is OK with this, then no team should ever announce a starting pitcher ever again.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:15 pm

I think I'm fine with it. He used a game roster spot and was burned for the game after facing one batter. If the Brewers think that's a worthwhile trade, so be it.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:30 pm

Woohoo, Machado is two for two! Double plays that is.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:36 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:15 pm I think I'm fine with it. He used a game roster spot and was burned for the game after facing one batter. If the Brewers think that's a worthwhile trade, so be it.

Agreed. If that was really their purpose, i would have let him throw one pitch, and then switched him.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:42 pm

Ok so next season the Dodgers start Kershaw every single outing. Every one. Four outings he makes one pitch. Fifth outing he stays in the game. You guys have no problem with that. Really?

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:44 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:42 pm Ok so next season the Dodgers start Kershaw every single outing. Every one. Four outings he makes one pitch. Fifth outing he stays in the game. You guys have no problem with that. Really?

I would pay to see it!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Lorini wrote:Ok so next season the Dodgers start Kershaw every single outing. Every one. Four outings he makes one pitch. Fifth outing he stays in the game. You guys have no problem with that. Really?

If they want to burn a roster spot, sure.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:12 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 am Next time Machado comes up he's going to get beaned.

As predicted!!!

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:32 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:12 pm
Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:24 am Next time Machado comes up he's going to get beaned.
As predicted!!!

No way was that deliberate. Even Buck didn’t think so. Machado had hit into two DP's and they are going to deliberately put him on base so he could score like he did? Well if that’s how they are going to play, we have this in the bag.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:35 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:03 pm
Lorini wrote:Ok so next season the Dodgers start Kershaw every single outing. Every one. Four outings he makes one pitch. Fifth outing he stays in the game. You guys have no problem with that. Really?
If they want to burn a roster spot, sure.

? No he can’t enter the game again but he wouldn’t anyway. Please explain how that’s using a meaningful roster slot.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:59 pm

Lorini wrote:Ok so next season the Dodgers start Kershaw every single outing. Every one. Four outings he makes one pitch. Fifth outing he stays in the game. You guys have no problem with that. Really?

Of course not. Why would that be a problem?

Why do you think the Dodgers don't do that now?

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:14 pm

Wow, that was the anti-Bartman call.