Joker 1 & 2 [movie]

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:11 pm

teaser

Joaquin Phoenix seems like a good choice.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:27 am

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:31 am

Movies are usually better than I think they will be...actors too.

Can I just go back to the OP date of this thread Nov 11, 2018? Ok thnx bye.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:36 am

I'm guessing the kid at the 1:48 mark is a young Bruce Wayne?

I'm still not sold on Phoenix as The Joker. Although he was freakin' amazing in You Were Never Really Here, he feels too self aware in these trailers so far. I hope I'm wrong though.

Of course, I'm still ticked off they didn't hire Crispin Glover. That guy's been playing the Joker in every movie he's made since the early 80's, for Christ's sake.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:21 am

I'm shy on the idea of a Joker origin story. As example, I loved Heath Ledger's ever changing narrative of his origin. That's part of the Joker for me. He's very much bound to the moment. OtOH, I like mold breaking. It's part of what I generally love about fiction, but this will be hard for me get past my own bias for. If you can get me to part with my bias, then the movie will feel like it's among the best. If you can't, it will be among the worst. I don't see a middle ground.

I changed my tune of Phoenix with I Walk the Line. He was the opposite of name attraction until that movie.

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:36 am Of course, I'm still ticked off they didn't hire Crispin Glover. That guy's been playing the Joker in every movie he's made since the early 80's, for Christ's sake.

Doesn't he kind of live being Joker? Or maybe that's his interview presence. This is how I think of him

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:38 am

I think Ledger's version of the Joker is so awesome (in part) because he's seemingly more of a force or an avatar of chaos. As mentioned, with his ever-changing backstory, you never really know who or what he is. This movie looks to be taking that element away and humanizing the Joker - trying to show how a (mostly?) normal person turns into the Joker we've all come to know and love. I guess they did something similar in the Gotham TV show? I had to stop watching because of my old TiVo (RIP) and its inability to record more than 2 simultaneous season passes, but I have recollections of them taking a similar path. Regardless, I don't know if it'll work, but I guess we'll see. I'm certainly intrigued, but Ledger's (clown) shoes are mighty large to fill.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:59 am

I saw some similarities in terms of physical movements between Ledger and Phoenix in this latest trailer. Head movements, walking etc etc.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:04 pm

I don't know if I'll end up seeing it, but that was a damn good trailer. I am seemingly constantly surprised with Joaquin Phoenix's range. And I agree that there definitely are some physical similarities between Phoenix's and Ledger's Joker, especially at the end.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:17 pm

I was on the fence about that one, but the trailer is so well made I'm going to have to check it out.

I can't tell if he's supposed to be a bad guy in this film or some sort of antihero.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:32 pm

Who is the director on this? Joaquin Phoenix is pretty great, and that trailer was solid.

As always, I'll go see it if it turns out to be good.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:39 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:04 pm I don't know if I'll end up seeing it, but that was a damn good trailer. I am seemingly constantly surprised with Joaquin Phoenix's range. And I agree that there definitely are some physical similarities between Phoenix's and Ledger's Joker, especially at the end.

I had zero interest in this before today, but that trailer definitely got my attention. Color me intrigued.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:40 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:32 pm Who is the director on this?

Todd Phillips

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:30 pm

The trailer lacks a "hook". I have zero interest in watching a Joker Documentary.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:44 pm

Me wanty.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:40 pm

I wonder if Ledger would have ever reprised his Joker if he'd lived.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:48 pm

Freyland wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:30 pm The trailer lacks a "hook". I have zero interest in watching a Joker Documentary.

I suspect we'll have more trailers with more hooks (including The Bat Man) before the release.

This was just "look at the newly imagined newly creepy Joker!"

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:12 pm

I've gotten the feeling that the hook is 'watch a pitiable man descend into madness.' More of a biopic than anything else. People going in expecting a superhero film are going to be disappointed.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:50 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:40 pm I wonder if Ledger would have ever reprised his Joker if he'd lived.

I think it would have been an absolute certainty that he would have returned in Dark Knight Rises.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:51 pm

He would've been infinitely better than Bane. That's for sure. But I'm not sure I would've liked Ledger's Joker appearing in the very next entry in the trilogy. If they had continued on, I would've liked to see him return a few movies later as the denouement to Bruce Wayne's crime fighting career.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:55 pm

Freyland wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:30 pm The trailer lacks a "hook". I have zero interest in watching a Joker Documentary.

Same feeling here though I want a great Joker movie. I'm just not sure this will be it...yet.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:16 pm

I'm really torn.

On the one hand I'm sure Joaquin is amazing in it, and I love that they really seem to be doing a radical take on the character in this movie.

On the other hand, I'm not sure Joker's origin story can sustain an entire movie. Hero origins are easy, because they literally fit the "hero's journey" trope. Weak nobody winds up becoming a hero and defeating the bad guy. I'm not quite sure how you do that with a villain. Watch one man's journey to become The Joker only to get his ass kicked by Batman? There's no triumphant ending here.

Every villain origin movie I've seen has sucked. The Star Wars prequels. Hannibal Rising. Maleficent. Someone please name me a villain origin movie that didn't suck so I can feel better about this film.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:30 pm

I don't like origin stories for the most part but there are exceptions. I liked Iron Man, but part of the reason for that was that I didn't know the character at all. Since it was all new to me it was much more interesting compared to seeing Batman's parents killed again or Superman's planet blowing up again. In the case of the Joker I don't know what to think. I'm okay not knowing how he became that way. Did I need to see how Darth Vader became Darth Vader? No. But I also like movies about weird characters, and this could be a movie like that. Nightcrawler with Jake Gyllenhaal, and Taxi Driver are two examples. If this Joker movie makes me feel like I need to take a shower afterwards then they did a good job.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:16 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:16 pm I'm really torn.

On the one hand I'm sure Joaquin is amazing in it, and I love that they really seem to be doing a radical take on the character in this movie.

On the other hand, I'm not sure Joker's origin story can sustain an entire movie. Hero origins are easy, because they literally fit the "hero's journey" trope. Weak nobody winds up becoming a hero and defeating the bad guy. I'm not quite sure how you do that with a villain. Watch one man's journey to become The Joker only to get his ass kicked by Batman? There's no triumphant ending here.

Every villain origin movie I've seen has sucked. The Star Wars prequels. Hannibal Rising. Maleficent. Someone please name me a villain origin movie that didn't suck so I can feel better about this film.

The Count of Monte Cristo is a fantastic novel but they keep butchering it in the theatres. Pyscho?

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:31 am

Is Batman confirmed to make an appearance in this? I almost would rather he doesn't. Maybe a hint about him at the end, but that's it.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:17 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:16 pmEvery villain origin movie I've seen has sucked. The Star Wars prequels. Hannibal Rising. Maleficent. Someone please name me a villain origin movie that didn't suck so I can feel better about this film.

Is it because the movie sucks, or the story sucks? Breaking Bad seems like a good transitional tale from Good Guy to Completely Evil - but it took like 60 hours of story to get us there without too many massive leaps in logic. The Walter White that agonized and struggled to kill a single gang thug in Season 1 wasn't functionally the same person who was okay with killing anyone in his way by Season 6.

I think part of the reason villain origins suck is because you're typically asking the audience to accept a transition from general good to persistent evil in a very short time frame. It's a big leap, and doesn't get reversed afterwards.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:19 am

Avengers: Infinity War did a pretty good job with Thanos as the star of the movie.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:58 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:16 pm Every villain origin movie I've seen has sucked. The Star Wars prequels. Hannibal Rising. Maleficent. Someone please name me a villain origin movie that didn't suck so I can feel better about this film.

The Godfather

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:32 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:16 pm Every villain origin movie I've seen has sucked. The Star Wars prequels. Hannibal Rising. Maleficent. Someone please name me a villain origin movie that didn't suck so I can feel better about this film.

Isn't it more that prequels generally suck? Or any self-contained origin story that doesn't come at the beginning of a series. I'm sure there are a few exceptions out there. But these generally tell tales people may think they want to know, but that they don't really need to.

Joker is far enough removed from any active canon that I think it could potentially work.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:48 pm

msteelers wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:31 am Is Batman confirmed to make an appearance in this? I almost would rather he doesn't. Maybe a hint about him at the end, but that's it.

I have the feeling there won't be any Batman stuff in it. That's because there are prequel movies that end with the barest hint of how the movie ties into future events and I think this movie will be like that. I'm willing to bet this movie ends right before he's the Joker from the movies and comics, but with some indication that he's part of that larger world. The benefit of doing it that way is that future movies are not locked in to a certain portrayal of the character since nothing Batman related would have to connect directly to this movie.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:00 pm

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:12 pm

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:46 pm

I would watch Phoenix do anything after You Were Never Really Here. He was a goddamn force of nature in that movie.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:50 pm

I haven't seen that one. It's good?

I really liked him in The Master and Inherent Vice.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:06 pm

It's brutal. Phoenix isn't even human in it. It's a slow burn with moments that friggin' explode in your face. I highly, highly recommend it. But if you don't like violent films that avoid glorifying the violence, it may not work for you.

I'm betting that that movie is why he was cast in this one.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:54 pm

RT has it at 70%.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:30 pm

IGN gives it a 10 Masterpiece. Ive never seen them give a 10 to anything.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:08 pm

Decidedly meh.
Phoenix is good in it, but way less chaotic than I anticipated and the origin story was not much of a stretch at all. Really a short drive to put him over the edge.
Did nothing for the mystique about the Joker at all.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:30 pm

I haven't seen it, but the reviews look like (a) Phoenix is amazing, and (b) the script, direction, conception, and marketing are a dumb mess.

disarm · Post by **disarm** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:16 am

I think it's very well done and Phoenix puts on an incredible performance, totally disappearing into his character. It's a chilling presentation of a mentally ill man crumbling under the pressure of the cruel world that surrounds him, but then finding his own strength through acts of violence. The slow burn with outbursts of anger and violence may not be easy for some people to watch, but I think it served the material well. The film may not bring a lot new to the table for this character, but it's presented in a way that I found very compelling.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:47 pm

I've been thinking about this movie since I saw it. It crept into my dreams, not in a nightmare but in an uncomfortable regular dream way. On one hand, there's a lot to like. The look of the movie is pretty amazing. I consider it a textbook example of how to use visuals to tell your story. I could feel how grimy everything is even though I wasn't touching any of it. Phoenix's performance is great, he's not just a one note crazy guy. Some sequences are brilliant, such as the chain on the door scene.That's a worthy take on a Scorsese type of scene.

On the other hand, some stuff was a major letdown to me. The theft/homage aspect for instance. Taking bits from other movies is fine with me, as long as they do something new with it. I guess if you've never seen those movies it's all new to you so there's no problem. I have seen those movies. Other things are spoiler stuff which I'm not going to get into. I can say they included bits of the wider Batman world that I did not think fit in this movie, they were not needed, and they're frickin' boring to watch because it's been done so many times already it's long past time to give it a break.

It's very inconsistent is what I think, a flawed gem.