Game of Thrones Season 8

[Skinypupy]

I went back and forth on that one. Did he really leave, or was it just a set up? It really looked like Tormund and the wildlings were just waiting for Jon to get back, as if they knew he was coming. "Psst. Jon. Bran says hi. Ready to go home?"

I read it that way as soon as we saw Tormund was there. There was no way he was actually staying at Castle Black.

[msteelers]

I went back and forth on that one. Did he really leave, or was it just a set up? It really looked like Tormund and the wildlings were just waiting for Jon to get back, as if they knew he was coming. "Psst. Jon. Bran says hi. Ready to go home?"

I read it that way as soon as we saw Tormund was there. There was no way he was actually staying at Castle Black.

He told Jon he was going to Castle Black, and I assume Bran had a raven sent saying Jon was on his way.

[JCC]

I suspect, many years from now, when I rewatch the show again I will be much more forgiving of this final season. It was certainly true when I rewatched the Sopranos last year. I found the final season torturous and tedious when it aired but years later found it much more engaging. I also think when you can "binge" a show a lot of things that bother you watching "week to week" don't chafe so much.

This is also, I think, the last TV show not called "Doctor Who" that I will ever watch week to week. I am pretty much an on-demand only viewer now when it comes to TV comedies/dramas. I want to watch by the season now, and not by the week.

[msteelers]

One thing that bothered me is that Tyrion is left out of A Song of Fire and Ice at the end. The dude was Hand to two different rulers, was publicly accused of murdering the king, definitely murdered the hand of the king and one of the most powerful men in the realm, and was instrumental in not only getting Bran The Broken elected king, but changing how Kings were determined moving forward.

What kind of shitty history leaves him out?

[infinitelurker]

One thing that bothered me is that Tyrion is left out of A Song of Fire and Ice at the end.

+1 and it seemed like it was only done for a cheap laugh in that scene

[msteelers]

I suspect, many years from now, when I rewatch the show again I will be much more forgiving of this final season. It was certainly true when I rewatched the Sopranos last year.

I think this is going to be true for a lot of people. As we get away from the hype and start to look back on the story they actually told, vs the one we wanted, I think more people will say it was well done. The Sopranos is a perfect example.

[$iljanus]

I'm sad we won't get the full story about Tyrion's experience in a brothel involving a honeycomb and a donkey...

[msteelers]

I saw on reddit that that’s a joke that’s been around for years. I’m on my phone and can’t find the link, but I’m sure you can find it.

[McNutt]

One thing that bothered me is that Tyrion is left out of A Song of Fire and Ice at the end.

+1 and it seemed like it was only done for a cheap laugh in that scene

Yep. That was really bad.

[ImLawBoy]

It was . . . fine?

My gripes are ones that I think have been mentioned, but it's really just more of the shortcuts that we had been seeing. I could see them settling on King Bran with a free North eventually, but they got to that point awfully quickly. My problems with King Bran are actually pretty similar to my problems with King Gendry. He doesn't have an army, so how long before some ambitious Lord decides to try to take his throne? Unless the specter of the Stark armies re-engaging with the rest of Westeros is enough to keep them at bay, it doesn't seem to set up for a long period of peace.

The free North was also kind of hand waved. Like Dorne wouldn't want the same deal? Again, I think we could have gotten there eventually so it's not ruining the show for me or anything, but it's a nit I need to pick.

Beyond that, I thought the ending was pretty good. Nice resolutions for the (surviving) Stark kids. I particularly liked that Arya is taking her wanderlust and adventurous spirit away from death dealing and toward exploring.

#Gendry2019

When I saw Gendry was sitting with the Lords and Ladies to discuss the next king, my blood pressure definitely spiked.

[McNutt]

He doesn't have an army, so how long before some ambitious Lord decides to try to take his throne?

Like zero army. Where is he pulling his army from? Where is he getting the funds for an army? King's Landing seemed to be rebuilt, so there will be money coming in from the port. Somebody would have had to go into massive debt with the bank to get the funding to rebuild it though, so all of that income will be going to repay the bank, not raise an army.

BTW, how long was the delay between Dany dying and the council meeting? Judging by King's Landing, it must have been a year.

My favorite part was Sansa telling Edmure Tully to sit down after he started pathetically making a case to be named King.

[El Guapo]

I went back and forth on that one. Did he really leave, or was it just a set up? It really looked like Tormund and the wildlings were just waiting for Jon to get back, as if they knew he was coming. "Psst. Jon. Bran says hi. Ready to go home?"

I read it that way as soon as we saw Tormund was there. There was no way he was actually staying at Castle Black.

Well, you figure that job #1 for the Night's Watch is to figure out whether they are really needed anymore. The Night King is dead, but is there anything left of the White Walkers? Is there some way for them to regenerate? We know that they've been defeated once before and came back, so presumably they could do so again. So it would be a fairly sensible thing to meet up with the Wildlings (who would rather be home anyway) and march north and see what you find.

What Jon would do if and when he concluded that the White Walkers are truly dead and gone would be an interesting question.

[msduncan]

When I first read the books, I was angry for a long time reading about Bran getting pushed from the tower. I barely knew the characters and it still made me mad.

When I look over at the whole story, I think it's fitting that he winds up with the crown. I remember back to that moment and how angry I was at the Lannisters about that moment.

[El Guapo]

He doesn't have an army, so how long before some ambitious Lord decides to try to take his throne?

Like zero army. Where is he pulling his army from? Where is he getting the funds for an army? King's Landing seemed to be rebuilt, so there will be money coming in from the port. Somebody would have had to go into massive debt with the bank to get the funding to rebuild it though, so all of that income will be going to repay the bank, not raise an army.

BTW, how long was the delay between Dany dying and the council meeting? Judging by King's Landing, it must have been a year.

My favorite part was Sansa telling Edmure Tully to sit down after he started pathetically making a case to be named King.

Well, the whole realm is pretty much devastated at this point after so many wars, so it's not like there's some big army staring him down. There's a new generation of lords (Lord Bronn, Gendry, others) who owe their new rank largely to Bran and Tyrion. They'll need some time to rebuild, for sure, but it's not like there's someone obvious threatening to swoop in and upend things (well, other than Jon, but it doesn't seem like he's inclined to do that). Yeah, some lord could try to put together an army and make a move, but there's no reason to think that they'd be in a better position than King Bran.

Also is a bit of an edge that the new King, upon getting any hint of a problem, can use his supernatural powers to learn everything that he needs to know.

[El Guapo]

I thought the episode was great. Similar to other episodes this season - really solid as an individual episode / event, but with some issues / questions / borderline nits on how everything fits together. The one big thing hanging over all of it is the decision to have two abbreviated seasons for seasons 7 and 8, as there's a lot (e.g., Danaerys's breaking bad) which makes sense in a broader sense, but which would really have been helped by some additional explanatory screen time. But with that caveat, I thought they did a pretty solid job wrapping things up.

[Jaymann]

He doesn't have an army, so how long before some ambitious Lord decides to try to take his throne?

Like zero army. Where is he pulling his army from? Where is he getting the funds for an army? King's Landing seemed to be rebuilt, so there will be money coming in from the port. Somebody would have had to go into massive debt with the bank to get the funding to rebuild it though, so all of that income will be going to repay the bank, not raise an army.

BTW, how long was the delay between Dany dying and the council meeting? Judging by King's Landing, it must have been a year.

Tyrion said he had nothing to do but think for the past few weeks. Unless he sat there oblivious for a year until he started thinking.

[McNutt]

A kingdom needs an army. Just because these lords are playing nice now doesn't mean they always will. If the king doesn't have an army to enforce the peace then this kingdom will fracture in a second.

My guess is that the North and the Dornish have the only real armies in the realm. The others will have to completely rebuild. I can't possibly see the Dornish not splitting from the kingdom.

[McNutt]

Tyrion said he had nothing to do but think for the past few weeks. Unless he sat there oblivious for a year until he started thinking.

Was it really just weeks? That makes no sense. King's Landing and its inhabitants were destroyed and now it's a bustling hub of commerce again.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I thought he said "three weeks" but his beard growth and Jon's hair growth suggested it was longer. I'd need to go back and look for more context clues. I also agree that the season might truly benefit from a binge watch. Prior to this season, all my viewings of GoT happened after the fact and I really enjoyed just blasting through them all.

[morlac]

Yeah, that particular shot of the dragon wings behind Dany was well done.

Might be the best shot of the series.

[morlac]

Overall, I'm satisfied with it. The biggest thing that bothered me in the finale, however, was that I didn't buy that Grey Worm and the Unsullied would have ever been swayed for anything but death to Jon Snow. There was never a hint, at least that I noticed, that Grey Worm thought Dany was going mad.

Completely unbelievable Grey Worm did not kill him onsite. He was just slaughtering useless/innocent Lannister Soldiers just because but when he finds the man who killed his queen...imprisonment?!? Total crap on that part. Rest of it was ok to good but man that part was just shit.

[McNutt]

Grey Worm's queen was dead. He was not beholden to anyone, so why was he holding Tyrion and Jon? Grey Worm has shown that he doesn't mess around and he would have killed Tyrion right away and most likely killed Jon over the course of a couple of days. There is zero chance that he would keep them as prisoners.

[Kurth]

I’m good with the finale, all things considered. For only having a six episode season to tie things up, they could have done worse.

BTW, at 8:37 PM yesterday, here was my prediction;

Prediction: When all is said and done tonight on GoT, no one sits on the Iron Throne. Dany succeeds in breaking the wheel, but she doesn’t survive to see it. John disappears back to the True North.

Nailed it!

[ImLawBoy]

Grey Worm's queen was dead. He was not beholden to anyone, so why was he holding Tyrion and Jon? Grey Worm has shown that he doesn't mess around and he would have killed Tyrion right away and most likely killed Jon over the course of a couple of days. There is zero chance that he would keep them as prisoners.

Grey Worm is still ultimately a soldier beholden to duty. Last orders from Dany were to hold Tyrion. He had no orders for Jon. There is a much greater than zero chance that he would keep them as prisoners.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, the way it was presented, it sounded like he was waiting for orders from someone and he didn't think he had the authority to do anything but obey his last set of instructions. Why else would he present Tyrion to speak before the assembled council? Grey Worm was acknowledging their limited authority and waiting for them to appoint a King that would then give him orders.

[McNutt]

Grey Worm is loyal only to his men and to Dany. She is dead and Tyrion was to be executed for Treason. He's going to hold Tyrion until when? Was he waiting on someone to give him an order? He has no reason to take orders from anyone. He had sworn allegiance to Dany, not the seven kingdoms. He doesn't care one bit about the seven kingdoms.

[morlac]

Tyrion said he had nothing to do but think for the past few weeks. Unless he sat there oblivious for a year until he started thinking.

Was it really just weeks? That makes no sense. King's Landing and its inhabitants were destroyed and now it's a bustling hub of commerce again.

I didn't see any bustling. I saw all the Unsullied leaving and supplies coming in, I presume for rebuilding purposes.

[McNutt]

I saw no signs of devastation. Before that time jump the city was in ashes. Total destruction. After that the docks were jumping and the only street-level shot showed tons of people. Granted, it was an assumption, but it appeared that King's Landing was back in business.

[Isgrimnur]

People gotta eat.

[ImLawBoy]

Grey Worm is loyal only to his men and to Dany. She is dead and Tyrion was to be executed for Treason. He's going to hold Tyrion until when? Was he waiting on someone to give him an order? He has no reason to take orders from anyone. He had sworn allegiance to Dany, not the seven kingdoms. He doesn't care one bit about the seven kingdoms.

He still cares about orders and chain of command because that's all he's ever known since he was a child. Of all of the leaps of faith that the show has asked us to take this last season, this seems like one of the smaller ones to me, but YMMV.

I saw no signs of devastation. Before that time jump the city was in ashes. Total destruction. After that the docks were jumping and the only street-level shot showed tons of people. Granted, it was an assumption, but it appeared that King's Landing was back in business.

Maybe Dany had enough sense to not destroy the docks, knowing that she would need those for rebuilding the economy of her new realm. As for the rest of the city, I don't know what it was like in cities that were firebombed in WWII, but I imagine there would be parallels. In King's Landing, they could start the rebuilding immediately knowing that the threat of the Mad Queen was gone (although her engine of destruction was out there somewhere).

[McNutt]

But I don't think they could start immediately. The workforce is dead. New people would need to be brought in to do the work and that is going to take time. More than just a couple of weeks.

Admittedly, this is a minor gripe. I just saw it as odd that all of this coming together in the rebuild Kings Landing happened so quickly.

[Jeff V]

I went back and forth on that one. Did he really leave, or was it just a set up? It really looked like Tormund and the wildlings were just waiting for Jon to get back, as if they knew he was coming. "Psst. Jon. Bran says hi. Ready to go home?"

I read it that way as soon as we saw Tormund was there. There was no way he was actually staying at Castle Black.

Well, you figure that job #1 for the Night's Watch is to figure out whether they are really needed anymore. The Night King is dead, but is there anything left of the White Walkers? Is there some way for them to regenerate? We know that they've been defeated once before and came back, so presumably they could do so again. So it would be a fairly sensible thing to meet up with the Wildlings (who would rather be home anyway) and march north and see what you find.

What Jon would do if and when he concluded that the White Walkers are truly dead and gone would be an interesting question.

I think one thing we can all agree on is that being King of the Way Fucking North > Commander of Night's Watch only because it doesn't include the celibacy bullshit. I did predict he'd end up taking Mance Rayder's job.

Since the Wildlings still represent an untamed force; I guess the wall would give Trump-level deplorables some measure of security. Over the seasons, there did seem to be widespread animosity towards them. But this wouldn't be a "six kingdoms" problem - it would only be a problem for Sansa since taking the North independent.

I can't see a reason there would be any white walkers left. The Battle for Winterfell had them (and the zombies) all die when the Night King died. If there were white walkers that were not created by the Night King, they and their zombies would have still been around after the Night King died, but this was not the case. With Sansa King of the North and Jon King of the Way Fucking North, I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be normal relations, the wall becoming rather porous unless there is some other threat we don't know about.

[Jeff V]

I went back and forth on that one. Did he really leave, or was it just a set up? It really looked like Tormund and the wildlings were just waiting for Jon to get back, as if they knew he was coming. "Psst. Jon. Bran says hi. Ready to go home?"

I read it that way as soon as we saw Tormund was there. There was no way he was actually staying at Castle Black.

Well, you figure that job #1 for the Night's Watch is to figure out whether they are really needed anymore. The Night King is dead, but is there anything left of the White Walkers? Is there some way for them to regenerate? We know that they've been defeated once before and came back, so presumably they could do so again. So it would be a fairly sensible thing to meet up with the Wildlings (who would rather be home anyway) and march north and see what you find.

What Jon would do if and when he concluded that the White Walkers are truly dead and gone would be an interesting question.

I think one thing we can all agree on is that being King of the Way Fucking North > Commander of Night's Watch only because it doesn't include the celibacy bullshit. I did predict he'd end up taking Mance Rayder's job.

Since the Wildlings still represent an untamed force; I guess the wall would give Trump-level deplorables some measure of security. Over the seasons, there did seem to be widespread animosity towards them. But this wouldn't be a "six kingdoms" problem - it would only be a problem for Sansa since taking the North independent.

I can't see a reason there would be any white walkers left. The Battle for Winterfell had them (and the zombies) all die when the Night King died. If there were white walkers that were not created by the Night King, they and their zombies would have still been around after the Night King died, but this was not the case. With Sansa King of the North and Jon King of the Way Fucking North, I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be normal relations, the wall becoming rather porous unless there is some other threat we don't know about.

[ImLawBoy]

I don't think she killed everyone in King's Landing. Even if she killed half of the population, that's still a horrific war crime that leaves plenty of people to clean up and rebuild.

[D.A.Lewis]

Bran doesn't have an army but doesn't he have a dragon friend he's going to check up on?????????

[Jeff V]

Bran doesn't have an army but doesn't he have a dragon friend he's going to check up on?????????

We don't know Drogon is a friend of his. He might be like "y'all killed my mommy, fuck you all, I'm outta here."

Remember though, there was a time that Drogon went missing for a few days. When my cats do that, they invariably become pregnant. Maybe she has a clutch of eggs to tend to? Is there any indication that dragons would ever attach themselves to a human that does not have Targaryan blood?

[Exodor]

I don't think she killed everyone in King's Landing. Even if she killed half of the population, that's still a horrific war crime that leaves plenty of people to clean up and rebuild.

If Hiroshima can rebuild I can certainly buy King's Landing showing signs of life weeks after the dragon attack.

Yet even as they struggled to comprehend the horror visited on their homes, businesses, public buildings and fellow citizens, evidence emerged of remarkable acts of courage and resourcefulness. Incredible though it may seem, looking at the handful of black-and-white photos taken in the immediate aftermath of the attack, Hiroshima’s resurrection began just hours after it was effectively wiped from the map.

The lights came back on in the Ujina area on 7 August, and around Hiroshima railway station a day later. Power was restored to 30% of homes that had escaped fire damage, and to all households by the end of November 1945, according to records kept by the Hiroshima Peace Institute.

Water pumps were repaired and started working again four days after the bombing, although damaged pipes created vast puddles among the ashes of wooden homes. The central telephone exchange bureau was destroyed and all of its employees killed, yet essential equipment was retrieved and repaired, and by the middle of August 14 experimental lines were back in operation.

And King's Landing wouldn't have radiation to deal with.

Bran doesn't have an army but doesn't he have a dragon friend he's going to check up on?????????

Bran also has powers beyond what most kings possess. How do you plot a secret insurrection against a King that can see everything? Sort of makes the missing Master of Whisper unnecessary.

[Isgrimnur]

I look forward to the sequel series:

Game of Thrones: The Unsullied vs. the Butterflies

[Rumpy]

Naming Winterfell as a future target was bold but stupid.

I'm not sure Jon understood what she was saying. I assumed he did during that scene, but then later Tyrion said something along the lines of "did that sound like she was talking about peace to you?" That made me realize Jon doesn't speak their language, and shouldn't have any idea what they were saying. But he certainly could pick up on the mood. And the mood in that scene was terrifying. People might not like the turn that Dany took, but Emilia Clarke was fantastic.

I assumed he knew exactly what was being said from having spent time around Dany. I took that discussion to mean Tyrion was conferring with Jon, double-checking on what was said from a distance, as in "Did I hear that right? Did she really say that?" Also got the distinct impression he was checking to see how Jon was reacting to Dany and wondering if he was for or against. He was kind of searching at this point. That follows with the jail cell, when Tyrion tries to convince Jon she's too much of a threat.

I especially liked how a whole bunch of people were recognizing her descent into madness and trying to turn the tides. Much better dealt with than the previous episode. It at least made up for the fact that they made it happen so abruptly in the sense that it wasn't ignored.

[Hyena]

Beyond that, I thought the ending was pretty good. Nice resolutions for the (surviving) Stark kids. I particularly liked that Arya is taking her wanderlust and adventurous spirit away from death dealing and toward exploring.

#Gendry2019

When I saw Gendry was sitting with the Lords and Ladies to discuss the next king, my blood pressure definitely spiked.

I agree with the Stark kids' endings. If you think about it, they all got exactly what they wanted, albeit in a horrifically roundabout way.

Sansa got to be queen, a proper lady.

Arya got to be a NOT proper lady, free to roam the world.

Jon went back to obscurity, in the Night's Watch (and beyond, apparently), not forced to rule a kingdom he didn't want. Might not have wanted this exact scenario, but the ghost of a smile (see what I did there?) on his face as the door shut behind him tells me he will be happy being up north of the wall, just like his favorite character in the entire series, Uncle Benjen.

Bran...now this one is a bit of a stretch, but he always liked to climb the tower in Winterfell so he could see what was going on, who was coming and going, and now he can. Not only can he see everything from the tallest tower in the land, he can see everything. And I mean EVERYTHING.