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Game of Thrones Season 8

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by noxiousdog » Fri May 17, 2019 1:02 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:46 pm
Scientific American - The Real Reason Fans Hate the Last Season of Game of Thrones
Some fans and critics have been assuming that the duo changed the narrative to fit Hollywood tropes or to speed things up, but that’s unlikely. In fact, they probably stuck to the narrative points that were given to them, if only in outline form, by the original author. What they did is something different, but in many ways more fundamental: Benioff and Weiss steer the narrative lane away from the sociological and shifted to the psychological.
Also, Arya ex machina is now my new go-to term.
Good article. I could easily get behind Littlefinger whispering into Danerys's ear and corrupting her. It would be compelling even if Wormtongue did it before.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Fri May 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Yeah, good article. So, there was indeed a shift, even if fans couldn't put their finger on what exactly it was. I think it explains a lot. I also think that the last good shocking and satisfying moment was during the Season 7 Finale when Sansa cornered Littlefinger and let Arya kill him. I feel that was the last trace of the old mode of storytelling. The result of all this is that the narrative ends up feeling a little thin, all to get to a resolution quicker.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Holman » Fri May 17, 2019 3:34 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:54 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 pm
Maybe Dany had just been talking with Davos before the battle
Was this all just a trick by Tyrion all along? Did he think the bells would ring once the attack started as a way to get people to hide inside and if he told her that really meant they gave up she would stop? They were never intended as surrender bells but he was hoping she'd believe him that they were? Once the bells rang she realized they never intended to welcome her with open arms so let's just burn it all to the ground? I could almost buy that. I think that's a lot to have people figure out, if true and it does go against what the writers said in the "after the show" short feature. As a major plot point, this really shouldn't be such a mess, IMHO.
Nah. People across the city were crying out "Ring the bells!" to the Red Keep. They were clearly pleading for Cersei to surrender the city and prevent its destruction.

Anyone wanting to hide inside already knew enough to do so.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by McNutt » Fri May 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Did Tyrion suggest this before or after he learned that Jaime was captured? Once he decided to free Jaime he knew he was going to die. Maybe this was him trying to do one more good thing since he was already a dead man.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Drazzil » Fri May 17, 2019 3:50 pm

McNutt wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:44 pm
Did Tyrion suggest this before or after he learned that Jaime was captured? Once he decided to free Jaime he knew he was going to die. Maybe this was him trying to do one more good thing since he was already a dead man.
Tyrion is my favorite character. I hope he lives.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Fri May 17, 2019 3:52 pm

That was before, AFAIK.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by gameoverman » Fri May 17, 2019 5:11 pm

Yeah, Tyrion had already talked to Dany and saw that she was going to attack the city. He asked her to stop the attack if the bells sounded. Then as he's walking out she tosses out the news that Jaime got captured.

I have to wonder if Dany was testing Tyrion. She didn't say that part about if he fails her again that will be the last time until after she told him they captured Jaime. It's like she dangled some bait, gave him clear warning, then stepped back to see what he would do. It would have been easy for her to tell the Unsullied that Jaime is Tyrion's brother and that Tyrion should not be allowed to see Jaime unsupervised. She didn't do that, so maybe she wanted to see what he'd do if he thought no one was looking.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Fri May 17, 2019 5:49 pm

Yeah, which is what lead me to feel that Tyrion still likely feels some loyalty to Dany.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Blackhawk » Sat May 18, 2019 10:51 am

If they'd had just a three second cut of Jaime hurrying through the city while Dany sees him from the tower, the whole thing would have made more sense.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by morlac » Sat May 18, 2019 11:29 am

Blackhawk wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 10:51 am
If they'd had just a three second cut of Jaime hurrying through the city while Dany sees him from the tower, the whole thing would have made more sense.
That is perfect and would have been fine for me. I don't disagree with her going mad just needed more time to bake. In lieu of that the scene of Jaime running would have been just enough.

Another one would have been John Snow turning away from the battle after being horrified at the slaughtering of innocents, raping and pillaging aspect. Sword sheathed, head down with maybe Ser Davos and some north men following him.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by McNutt » Sat May 18, 2019 11:30 am

I like those ideas

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Sat May 18, 2019 12:54 pm

And maybe some editing of some overlayed flashbacks to indicate that she's thinking back to those moments. The way they had done it wasn't properly conveyed, and it looked somewhat like she was surveying the city waiting for it to calm down.
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Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by msteelers » Sat May 18, 2019 12:59 pm

morlac wrote:Another one would have been John Snow turning away from the battle after being horrified at the slaughtering of innocents, raping and pillaging aspect.
That’s essentially what we got. He tries to stop his men from joining in the slaughter, ends up killing one of his own men to protect a citizen from being raped, and ultimately gets his men out of the city. The only time you see him joining in the fight is when he is directly attacked.

I don’t remember seeing Ser Davos after the dragon started destroying the city.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by $iljanus » Sat May 18, 2019 1:34 pm


msteelers wrote:
morlac wrote:Another one would have been John Snow turning away from the battle after being horrified at the slaughtering of innocents, raping and pillaging aspect.
That’s essentially what we got. He tries to stop his men from joining in the slaughter, ends up killing one of his own men to protect a citizen from being raped, and ultimately gets his men out of the city. The only time you see him joining in the fight is when he is directly attacked.

I don’t remember seeing Ser Davos after the dragon started destroying the city.
I think Ser Davos was also helping people and I'm glad the writers didn't decide to shit on his character and have him raping and pillaging.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by gameoverman » Sat May 18, 2019 1:37 pm

I interpreted the ground troops reaction as 'follow the leader'. Dany goes off and starts attacking again after the bells sound. Grey Worm takes that as a sign he can attack, which he wants to do anyways for personal reasons. The other Unsullied and Dothraki would take their lead from Dany and Grey Worm. The northmen would probably remember the losses the north has suffered at the hands of the Lannisters which fuels their bloodlust AND they probably don't want to look wimpy to Dany's forces. The northmen don't consider the southern people fellow citizens.

Notably, the one guy who does not want control or power, Jon, does his best to avoid further violence. His 'leave me out of this' attitude saves him from losing his humanity. His next meeting with Dany, assuming there is one, is going to be awkward. I think the only thing that saves him is that Drogon probably wouldn't, or couldn't, kill him.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Drazzil » Sat May 18, 2019 1:42 pm

I hope Tyrion lives. My fav char.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Hrothgar » Sat May 18, 2019 1:44 pm

Rumpy wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 12:54 pm
And maybe some editing of some overlayed flashbacks to indicate that she's thinking back to those moments. The way they had done it wasn't properly conveyed, and it looked somewhat like she was surveying the city waiting for it to calm down.
I thought they made it clear what she expected. The people were to turn on the Lannister army and cheer her as their savior. When they did neither, she punished them.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by morlac » Sat May 18, 2019 1:54 pm

Yes, they showed aspects of this but all in the wrong order.

Should have been.

1. Dothraki riders lose control and start doing their normal thing.
2. Greyworm sees this and loses his mind, unsullied follow suit.
3. John and and northmen see this and say no thanks not what we signed up for. They exit out.
4. Mad queen sees John abandoning the fight, sees cersei in her tower and boom nuclear dragon. Burn them all.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Sat May 18, 2019 2:45 pm

Yeah, I mean, I didn't find it terribly clear. It just played out rather abruptly. *shrug*
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by gameoverman » Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 am

Sansa pointed out that the northmen, I assume she meant them, were banged up and could use some rest. She got overruled and those guys had to march to the city. I imagine they were pissed off to some degree. So there they are IN the city all fired up and the merc guys, who made this fight necessary in the first place, are standing right there in front of them. Then all hell breaks loose and Grey Worm attacks. The northmen are supposed to decide this is wrong and leave? Haha, I don't buy it. They are going to tear shiat up. After all, when it's all over the northmen will return north and never see the city again. So why would they care what condition they leave it in?

When Jon, who is king in the north, subjugated himself to Dany that had the consequence of removing his power to control his forces in the heat of battle in the way he'd need to do if he wanted them to listen to his commands to stop fighting. If he doesn't want to be king that's fine, not everyone is all about power, but it came back to bite him on the ass. If he had been king, claiming his right to the throne while up north, then that fight wouldn't have even started without his command. It seems like he only wants power when he wants power, sort of a passive/aggressive power monger. It doesn't work that way.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Punisher » Sun May 19, 2019 12:26 am

gameoverman wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 am
Sansa pointed out that the northmen, I assume she meant them, were banged up and could use some rest. She got overruled and those guys had to march to the city. I imagine they were pissed off to some degree. So there they are IN the city all fired up and the merc guys, who made this fight necessary in the first place, are standing right there in front of them. Then all hell breaks loose and Grey Worm attacks. The northmen are supposed to decide this is wrong and leave? Haha, I don't buy it. They are going to tear shiat up. After all, when it's all over the northmen will return north and never see the city again. So why would they care what condition they leave it in?

When Jon, who is king in the north, subjugated himself to Dany that had the consequence of removing his power to control his forces in the heat of battle in the way he'd need to do if he wanted them to listen to his commands to stop fighting. If he doesn't want to be king that's fine, not everyone is all about power, but it came back to bite him on the ass. If he had been king, claiming his right to the throne while up north, then that fight wouldn't have even started without his command. It seems like he only wants power when he wants power, sort of a passive/aggressive power monger. It doesn't work that way.
I dont think anyone is complaining about the initial attach on the golden army at the front of the gates and dont expect the northerners to hold back here. Its after they have effectively won the battle and start attacking unarmed, surrendered soldiers when Dany goes for the nuclear option that people are complaining about (along with her going nuclear in the first place). Them attacking the golden army at the gates after Dany blows the gates open makes perfect sense.

I dont think Jon ever formally gave up his King of the North position really. He did bend the knee to Dany, but other Kings have done so to various previous Kings in the past. So I think he is still technically King in the North, buty under Dany's Queen of the 7 kingdoms.
Even if he did, at this point in time, he is still the commanding officer of the northern army and they should still be listening to him. I think its less of a "we just arent going to listen to you" and more of a "we cant hear you over our bloodlust due to fatigue and past issues with the Lannisters" They did hold back until Dany went nuclear AND Greyworm started the attack. Then they jsut saw this as an "its ok to attack now" thing.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Holman » Sun May 19, 2019 9:38 am

Last call for predictions! (I know I keep changing mine.)

Since last episode was about turning us against Dany, she can't possibly end up on the Iron Throne.

I think it's going to be King Jon, however reluctantly. But most of the thematic focus will be on Tyrion, as he's the conscience of the series and has learned the hardest lessons. He'll play a role that embodies the GRRM sense that nothing is ever good or safe, but good people must try nevertheless.

A confrontation between Dany and Jon is inevitable, but I don't think he'll kill her. Everyone expects Arya to do it, but I wonder if the show will go for maximum melodrama and force Tyrion to stab her in the back (a la Jaime and Dany's father).

I wonder what happens to the Unsullied and the surviving Dothraki (and Drogon) when Dany dies.

I wonder if we'll see more than a cursory nod to Sansa and/or Brienne. Presumably Sam will be around to explain to Jon that he can't quit the throne, the realm needs him, etc. Davos will say the same.

I wonder if there will be anything for Bran to do at all.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Blackhawk » Sun May 19, 2019 10:42 am

Jon on the throne, or he 'remakes' the throne in a way that better fits his sensibilities, perhaps ruling from elsewhere, or redefining the politics.

Arya kills Dany, Drogon snacks on Arya.

Characters in the north are ignored and forgotten about.

Tyrion... if he doesn't die giving Arya an opening to Dany, he becomes Jon's advisor to help him navigate politics.

Drogon flies off into the horizon. After-credits scene of Drogon in a nest of eggs (see earlier evidence that dragons can jump sexes.)

Bran wargs into Ghost, drags himself north, and becomes the new Night King, and raises a zombie Hodor carry him around.

Sansa and Brienne, having had enough of men, get married.

Hot Pie is revealed to be the bastard son of Ned Stark and Rhaella Targaryen.

Jaime is found alive, and begins a campaign for the throne based on a promise to rebuild The Wall and secure the border.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by msteelers » Sun May 19, 2019 10:47 am

The only thing I’m certain of is that both Jon and Dany die. Outside of that, I have zero clue.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Sun May 19, 2019 11:48 am

Holman wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:38 am
Last call for predictions! (I know I keep changing mine.)
My main prediction: no matter what happens, lots of people will be pissed off (probably me included).

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by msteelers » Sun May 19, 2019 12:42 pm

To expand on my weak prediction, Jon is the last character that we know of who has been resurrected by the Lord of Light. Everyone else resurrected by the LoL has died after serving a purpose. So Jon is going to do one last major thing (killing Dany, although that’s the obvious thing) and then he will die.

I hope Tyrion lives. I hope Bran does something cool with his powers. I hope Bronn does something cool, and doesn’t just demand Highgarden.

And more importantly, I hope the show sticks the landing. Avengers stuck the landing, hard. They planted their feet, didn’t sway an inch, and got 10s across the board. GoT has taken at least a step after landing. They can still find their footing and finish with some 7s and 8s, maybe a 9 or two. Or they could fall on their face.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Drazzil » Sun May 19, 2019 12:57 pm

No matter how it ends, people will NOT be satisfied.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Sun May 19, 2019 1:24 pm

That's so true, Draz. And I feel I can't even begin to try to make predictions because I feel I don't even really know the characters anymore due to last week's episode or overall season. I just don't really know what to think anymore. But I'll say this. I think it's possible that somehow Tyrion will end up getting the throne after all the ridicule he endured with his family. But I also think that it can't possibly end with a rule under the same family, so it will have to fall to one of the other families.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Punisher » Sun May 19, 2019 1:27 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:42 am
Drogon flies off into the horizon. After-credits scene of Drogon in a nest of eggs (see earlier evidence that dragons can jump sexes.)
That is the mid-credits scene.
The 2nd mid-credits scene takes place 100 years later with Drogon leading a army of 1000 strong full grown dragons flaying towards Westoros
The end scene is Drogon sitting on the throne with a caption of.. and Peace reigned forever... Because whos gonna argue with a dragon?
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Jaymann » Sun May 19, 2019 3:55 pm

Tyrion commissions Bronn to take out Dany. Bronn demands Highgarden AND Castery Rock as payment. Tyrion agrees, but after the deed is done, Drogon fries Bronn and Tyrion takes the Iron Throne to rebuild Kings Landing. Jon consoles Drogon and flies north to oversee rebuilding the Wall. Arya roams the earth searching for Ilyn Payne.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Smoove_B » Sun May 19, 2019 3:57 pm

Bran wakes up in bed next to Suzanne Pleshette.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Rumpy » Sun May 19, 2019 4:45 pm

Everyone eats crow/three-eyed-raven, but first Drogon BBQs it and while they wait, they drink from their very own coffee cups.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Punisher » Sun May 19, 2019 5:08 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:55 pm
Tyrion commissions Bronn to take out Dany. Bronn demands Highgarden AND Castery Rock as payment. Tyrion agrees, but after the deed is done, Drogon fries Bronn and Tyrion takes the Iron Throne to rebuild Kings Landing. Jon consoles Drogon and flies north to oversee rebuilding the Wall. Arya roams the earth searching for Ilyn Payne.
My only issue with this is this: Is there really a reason to rebuild the wall at this point? Or do you think the Night Kings respawn timer is ready to pop?
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Drazzil » Sun May 19, 2019 5:23 pm

Punisher wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:08 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:55 pm
Tyrion commissions Bronn to take out Dany. Bronn demands Highgarden AND Castery Rock as payment. Tyrion agrees, but after the deed is done, Drogon fries Bronn and Tyrion takes the Iron Throne to rebuild Kings Landing. Jon consoles Drogon and flies north to oversee rebuilding the Wall. Arya roams the earth searching for Ilyn Payne.
My only issue with this is this: Is there really a reason to rebuild the wall at this point? Or do you think the Night Kings respawn timer is ready to pop?
I get the feeling that the night king won't be back for a few thousand years, also the undead dragon flattened the thing in what, 30 seconds? Why bother? Doesen't seem to be an impediment anyway.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by tjg_marantz » Sun May 19, 2019 5:55 pm

No throne by the time this ends.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by gameoverman » Sun May 19, 2019 7:24 pm

Final predictions from me, even though I've been wrong on lots of stuff already:
Jon won't be king of it all, he really doesn't want it. Where goes that leave him? I imagine something like John Wayne's character at the end of The Searchers.
Drogon is dead meat. There's no way people will tolerate having him around no matter who controls him.
I don't see how Dany comes out of this alive. She's the boss now, but it would be a very dark way to end the show if it ended with her on the throne. I don't think they'll do that, so someone has to kill her.
Without Dany to lead them, I think the Dothraki and Unsullied go back overseas. It's not like they're welcome in Westeros.
I think Tyrion's only chance to live is if Dany dies before she can execute him. Otherwise I don't see how he can talk his way out of his situation like he has in the past.
I think Arya leaves to go on further adventures, Sansa rules in the north. That leaves Bran. I don't know what a three eyed raven would want, now that this is over. Does he want to go back to nature? Does he want to be a regular person, mixing with other people? Who knows?

No one on the throne, no king or queen. I don't see anyone besides Jon who could claim the throne now.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by msteelers » Sun May 19, 2019 7:25 pm

#Gendry2019

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Holman » Sun May 19, 2019 8:29 pm

"No Crown, No Throne" is a funky modern dream, but I don't think the world of the show would stand for it.

If there's no Iron Throne, there are still seven separate kingdoms all vying for power like before the Targaryens came. Dissolving the IT does nothing to reduce those kingdoms' ambition or their power; in fact it makes those more important.

There's also no realistic way to break the throne while imposing some sort of republic; holding King's Landing doesn't give you leverage for that. And medieval republics were basically cutthroat oligarchies anyway.

Westeros is stuck in harsh feudalism until it develops a robust urban bourgeoisie, and there's nothing Jon, Dany, or Tyrion can do to make that happen.

Hegel and Marx would have left Littlefinger in charge. That would at least mean progressive tension. :ugeek:
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by Jaymann » Sun May 19, 2019 10:34 pm

Jaymann wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:55 pm
Tyrion commissions Bronn to take out Dany. Bronn demands Highgarden AND Castery Rock as payment. Tyrion agrees, but after the deed is done, Drogon fries Bronn and Tyrion takes the Iron Throne to rebuild Kings Landing. Jon consoles Drogon and flies north to oversee rebuilding the Wall. Arya roams the earth searching for Ilyn Payne.
Jon returns to the wall - nailed it.
Arya roams the earth - nailed it.

The best bit was when Sam Tarly proposed that democracy come to Westeros...NAH!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Post by JCC » Sun May 19, 2019 10:36 pm

Pretty anti-climactic but I guess it was a satisfactory conclusion.

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