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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:48 pm
by Daveman
Then fly over to the Red Keep and turn it to glass. Laying waste to the whole city was ridiculous.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:08 pm
by hepcat
Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:22 pm
Combustible Lemur wrote:While the scale could be problematic, she didn't actually do much killing herself. She rode on her birthright and flammed scurrying vermin in the maze below.
That’s like saying someone shooting people didn’t actually do the killing himself.
Dragon's don't kill people, dragon riders kill people.

-Brought to you by the NDA (National Dragon Association)

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:10 pm
by Jaymann
Dragons don't kill anybody. It's the flames and falling masonry.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:15 pm
by Combustible Lemur
Lol

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:16 pm
by Combustible Lemur
Daveman wrote:Then fly over to the Red Keep and turn it to glass. Laying waste to the whole city was ridiculous.
Mass murder usually is.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:30 pm
by noxiousdog
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:16 pm
Daveman wrote:Then fly over to the Red Keep and turn it to glass. Laying waste to the whole city was ridiculous.
Mass murder usually is.

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So it was a giant McGuffin.

We've got 10 minute to turn Dany crazy. How can we do that after 7 seasons of rationality? I know. Destroy King's Landing after they surrender!

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:32 pm
by Combustible Lemur
noxiousdog wrote:
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:16 pm
Daveman wrote:Then fly over to the Red Keep and turn it to glass. Laying waste to the whole city was ridiculous.
Mass murder usually is.

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So it was a giant McGuffin.

We've got 10 minute to turn Dany crazy. How can we do that after 7 seasons of rationality? I know. Destroy King's Landing after they surrender!
Why does someone murder another person after a lifetime of rationality? I know! Shitty writing.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:40 pm
by Combustible Lemur
And less snarkily yes to an extent the Mad Queen mass slaughter of civilians was a macguffin and a poorly executed one. That's what the article I posted above was all about. The style of writing changed. Now macguffins have to reach conclusions, D&D aren't able to just stop writing seasons. They have to produce. Now they can truncate the story to an annoying level and spread that truncated schedule out over eighteen months. But while extricating themselves from a monster project that looked to consume their lives for another five years they made writing choices that demanded plot forward choices rather than character exploration. Martin gets to either sit at his typewriter or do something else. I'm not saying people have to like it. But A, Dany being a monster has always been a possibility and not seeing it is IMO how Affluenza bullshit happens. And B a poorly landed biggest show ever isn't the worst unmotivated writing EVAR it's just not what people are used to. It still way better than Fantastic Beasts two which I just saw and was terrible.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:14 pm
by noxiousdog
They didn't have to deliver in such a short time. HBO wanted more episodes and they declined.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 pm
by Ralph-Wiggum
The actor who played Varys was not a big fan of these last two seasons:



Q)Is there something else you wish Varys had gotten to do?

It would have been great to have had one more meeting with Littlefinger. I think they tried to make that work and couldn’t. It just felt like after season 6, I kind of dropped off the edge. I can’t complain because it’s six great seasons and I had some great scenes these last two seasons. But that’s when It changed for me a little. There was that Magnificent Seven trek up north to bring a white walker back. It makes total sense that Varys wouldn’t go. But the human in you is like, “I want to go.” It made perfect sense. He’s not a hero, he’s not a fighter. And even when they went back to King’s Landing a couple times they sneaked him in there. They had set it up that he knew the city like the back of his hand so I guess he was just … I dunno. I’m not dissatisfied on the whole. It sounds like I am. But it’s been brilliant.


Q) What was your favorite Varys scene?

I loved the traveling with [Tyrion actor Peter Dinklage] and just the two of us in that cart. I think the stuff that was said in there understood the nature of freaks and outsiders so precisely. In a way, that was lost when we got past [the narrative in George R.R. Martin’s] books. That special niche interest in weirdos wasn’t as effective as it had been. Last season and this season there were great scenes and then I’d come in and kind of give a weather report at the end of them — “film at 11.” So I thought he was losing his knowledge. If he was such an intelligent man and he had such resources, how come he didn’t know about things? That added to my dismay.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 pm
by Combustible Lemur
noxiousdog wrote:They didn't have to deliver in such a short time. HBO wanted more episodes and they declined.
Yes, and that's on them. Let the next career choice you make be turned into publically international vitriol extravaganza.
Once the decision was made the clock was ticking is what I'm saying.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 am
by Rumpy
And the funny thing is, this doesn't reflect well on them if their next big project is the prequel series. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one, because they've kind of shown themselves unable to commit to one of the most popular shows on the planet.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:48 am
by Drazzil
Rumpy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 am
And the funny thing is, this doesn't reflect well on them if their next big project is the prequel series. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one, because they've kind of shown themselves unable to commit to one of the most popular shows on the planet.
I hope after this series finishes that the (four!) spin offs wind up buried. Its pretty obvious that any show after this won't be worth watching.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 am
by gameoverman
I was thinking about the irony of those close to her advising her that she can't attack the city because of the deaths it would cause, back when she first arrived in Westeros. If she had attacked then everyone would actually be better off.
No dragon for the Night King, making crossing south past the wall a much harder task.
No fortified city for Cersei, making for a shorter fight.
No psychologically damaged Dany, she'd still have some of her closest buds with her when she arrived at the city.
All three dragons would be available, both for the fight in the south and then for the fight in the north.
Her Unsullied and Dothraki forces would not have been decimated.
She would have had possession of the throne, mellowing her out.
She would not have had that bomb dropped on her, that she has no claim to the throne after all. Sam and Bran tell Jon "You're the rightful king" and he'd reply "You tell her three dragons that".

After the defeat of the Night King, Sansa wanted Dany to wait even longer before going south! But at least it's obvious Sansa was trying to sabotage Dany's efforts. Tyrion and the rest had no such excuse.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:16 am
by hepcat
Drazzil wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:48 am
Rumpy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 am
And the funny thing is, this doesn't reflect well on them if their next big project is the prequel series. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one, because they've kind of shown themselves unable to commit to one of the most popular shows on the planet.
I hope after this series finishes that the (four!) spin offs wind up buried. Its pretty obvious that any show after this won't be worth watching.
A few bad seasons here and there doesn’t take away the fact that the show has had some pretty great ones. I see no reason to think the spin offs would be automatically awful.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:43 am
by McNutt
The great seasons are great because they were written by someone else. We're going to get a world that isn't as deep and characters who are more cliche.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:35 am
by hepcat
I guess since I'm not really a Martin fanboy, I'm not as quick to predict a horrible future for his intellectual property.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:42 am
by Zaxxon
But seriously, though, where is Hot Pie?

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:44 am
by $iljanus
Zaxxon wrote:But seriously, though, where is Hot Pie?
Getting ready to take the Iron Throne of course

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:45 am
by hepcat
Working on his latest creation, the Baked Lannister?

Lannister Flambé?

Opening a new Asian inspired restaurant in King's Landing called "Beniha....HOLY SHIT, IS THAT A DRAGON!?"

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:58 am
by McNutt
hepcat wrote:I guess since I'm not really a Martin fanboy, I'm not as quick to predict a horrible future for his intellectual property.
You've seen the drastic quality turn after they veered from his books. Why would you think the next would be different? It will be Michael Bay in Westeros.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:03 am
by hepcat
I guess I haven't seen the drastic turn since they went off book. I thought they handled quite a few things well after they left the realms of the source material. They've been "off book" since season 5 (had to look that up, thought it was actually later), and with the exception of this last season and a few episodes here and there, I thought it has been fine. At the very least, not any indication that we should be tearing out our hair and ripping at our clothes over some perceived inability of anyone but Martin being able to craft a decent show about medieval characters caught up in Rome level politics.

The spin offs won't be based on actual books by Martin, so I'm willing to give them a chance. HBO has brought us shows like Rome and Deadwood, if you remember.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:07 am
by Zaxxon
hepcat wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:03 am
I guess I haven't seen the drastic turn since they went off book. I thought they handled quite a few things well after they left the realms of the source material. They've been "off book" since season 5 (had to look that up, thought it was actually later), and with the exception of this last season and a few episodes here and there, I thought it has been fine. At the very least, not any indication that we should be tearing out our hair and ripping at our clothes over some perceived inability of anyone but Martin being able to craft a decent show about medieval characters caught up in Rome level politics.
I actually agree, but since that's probably not clear based on my recent posts, I thought I should clarify: DB & Dan clearly are good writers. After all, even when they were on the book path, they were writing a lot of scenes that were not directly from the books. I think the dramatic downturn stems largely from the decision to play the final two seasons in extreme fast-forward more than anything else. I'm pretty sure they could have ended the series on approximately the same quality level as the first several seasons--they do have Martin's outline. They simply made a conscious choice to super-speed things, and that choice turned out to be very not so extremely great.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:08 am
by McNutt
Don't get me wrong, I'll watch them. I just don't have high expectations.

I have not been a huge fan of the last few seasons of GoT. Every fight seems to end with some good guy coming in at the last moment to save the day. That got old.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:12 am
by hepcat
The entire population of King's Landing wishes that were true.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:29 am
by Isgrimnur
Rumpy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 am
And the funny thing is, this doesn't reflect well on them if their next big project is the prequel series. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one, because they've kind of shown themselves unable to commit to one of the most popular shows on the planet.
Their next big project isn't the prequel serieses. It's Star Wars.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am
by Jeff V
Rumpy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 am
And the funny thing is, this doesn't reflect well on them if their next big project is the prequel series. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one, because they've kind of shown themselves unable to commit to one of the most popular shows on the planet.
You do realize that "them" is not involved in any of the proposed/greenlighted projects, right?

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:33 am
by Toe
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 pm
noxiousdog wrote:They didn't have to deliver in such a short time. HBO wanted more episodes and they declined.
Yes, and that's on them. Let the next career choice you make be turned into publically international vitriol extravaganza.
Once the decision was made the clock was ticking is what I'm saying.
This is one of the frustrating aspects of the whole situation that I really don't understand. Why did HBO management accept to their "demands"? Were they so worried that the show would lose its mojo if the two writers left? You would think HBO had enough knowledge and experience in this space that they could just told them to hit the highway, have fun, we are going to do 10 full seasons with or without you. Maybe it was some contractual stuff that I have not seen or something, cause it seems strange that two writers had that much influence.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:36 am
by msteelers
You have the two writers who helped create the most popular show on TV telling you they only needed the two short seasons to tell their story. HBO did the right thing, and trusted them. More shows have been ruined by networks demanding a story continue past its prime. Very few have been ruined because the writers purposefully rushed to the ending.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 am
by Combustible Lemur
Toe wrote:
Combustible Lemur wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 pm
noxiousdog wrote:They didn't have to deliver in such a short time. HBO wanted more episodes and they declined.
Yes, and that's on them. Let the next career choice you make be turned into publically international vitriol extravaganza.
Once the decision was made the clock was ticking is what I'm saying.
This is one of the frustrating aspects of the whole situation that I really don't understand. Why did HBO management accept to their "demands"? Were they so worried that the show would lose its mojo if the two writers left? You would think HBO had enough knowledge and experience in this space that they could just told them to hit the highway, have fun, we are going to do 10 full seasons with or without you. Maybe it was some contractual stuff that I have not seen or something, cause it seems strange that two writers had that much influence.
They also the producers. I don't really know anything about Hollywood contracts, but they are significantly more valued than your average two writers.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:25 pm
by hepcat
Image

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:41 pm
by Rumpy
McNutt wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:43 am
The great seasons are great because they were written by someone else. We're going to get a world that isn't as deep and characters who are more cliche.
Yep, exactly. They had material back then. The minute they had to rely on their own material, the quality tanked and they queued themselves an easy exit from the show. It's not hard to predict the kind of quality we should expect out of a prequel series if they're the ones writing. The writing is kind of on the wall.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:42 pm
by Rumpy
Jeff V wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:37 am
Rumpy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 am
And the funny thing is, this doesn't reflect well on them if their next big project is the prequel series. They kind of shot themselves in the foot with that one, because they've kind of shown themselves unable to commit to one of the most popular shows on the planet.
You do realize that "them" is not involved in any of the proposed/greenlighted projects, right?
Well, I did ask earlier in the thread about this and was told that Yes, they were involved.

Edit: Either way, my point still stands, Pre-GOT or SW. Who would want to hand them another sprawling epic after seeing this?

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:46 pm
by hepcat
Game of Thrones season 5: rated fresh on Rotten Tomatoes by critics at 93 percent

Game of Thrones season 6: rated fresh on Rotten Tomatoes by critics at 94 percent

Game of Thrones season 7: rated fresh on Rotten Tomatoes by critics at 93 percent

The audience reviews for each of those seasons hovers around or above 90 percent, by the way.

Audience review for season 8 is currently 41 percent.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:58 pm
by Jeff V
hepcat wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:46 pm
Audience review for season 8 is currently 41 percent.
This can go way up if people are satisfied at the end state. I'm not sure they can kill any of the remaining principle characters and achieve this outcome, however.

A poor ending probably means the new serieses need to knock it out of the park the first season. If any or all get off to a mediocre start, the franchise could be doomed. At least until the remake is done 30 years or so from now when Martin finishes the books. (as-if!)

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:04 pm
by hepcat
Over 30,000 people want season 8 remade.

:lol:

Yeah, good luck with that. I look forward to the fan made, youtube exclusive remake starring a plumber and a school nurse as Jan and Dany, and their schnauzer as Drogon.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:08 pm
by Remus West
I haven't been watching the shows (no HBO for me) but I saw a theory that said Bran was the one who burned King's Landing by warging into Drogon and that was why they didn't show Dany's face after she started the flight. The theory suggested she heard the bells and thought she would go burn down the Red Keep and Cersei with it when Bran warged in and took out the entire city. Thoughts?

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:10 pm
by McNutt
Bran going crazy makes even less sense.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:17 pm
by msteelers
hepcat wrote:Over 30,000 people want season 8 remade.

:lol:

Yeah, good luck with that. I look forward to the fan made, youtube exclusive remake starring a plumber and a school nurse as Jan and Dany, and their schnauzer as Drogon.
Try over 400k.

Re: Game of Thrones Season 8

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:19 pm
by hepcat
whoops, typo, I forgot a 0. The article I linked to was 300,000 at that time.

But man, 400,000. Wow.

...it still won't happen.