[Skepticism] The Mandela Effect

[Jaymann]

Sure, in this reality.

[Rumpy]

What if we all live in a universe where this Mandela Effect isn't a thing? What happens then?

[Jaymann]

Has anyone previously heard of the Black Tom Explosion? Apparently in 1916, some Germans set fire to a munitions depot near Jersey City, NJ. Killing at least 50 and creating a massive explosion that actually damaged the Statue of Liberty. Supposedly this was a factor in the US entering WWI. I sure as heck was not taught this in history class, and you would think after 9/11 the talking heads would have been all over it. This seems too big to have fallen by the wayside.

[LawBeefaroni]

Has anyone previously heard of the Black Tom Explosion? Apparently in 1916, some Germans set fire to a munitions depot near Jersey City, NJ. Killing at least 50 and creating a massive explosion that actually damaged the Statue of Liberty. Supposedly this was a factor in the US entering WWI. I sure as heck was not taught this in history class, and you would think after 9/11 the talking heads would have been all over it. This seems too big to have fallen by the wayside.

I remember hearing/reading about it but I don't remember 50 deaths. I thought it was like 6 deaths.

[Holman]

Has anyone previously heard of the Black Tom Explosion? Apparently in 1916, some Germans set fire to a munitions depot near Jersey City, NJ. Killing at least 50 and creating a massive explosion that actually damaged the Statue of Liberty. Supposedly this was a factor in the US entering WWI. I sure as heck was not taught this in history class, and you would think after 9/11 the talking heads would have been all over it. This seems too big to have fallen by the wayside.

I can't remember ever hearing of this, which is odd because I've actually done a lot of reading on WW1.

Perhaps I've seen it mentioned in passing as part of the larger discussion of actual German sabotage vs paranoia about German sabotage (the latter far outweighing the former), but if so, the specifics didn't stick with me.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Has anyone previously heard of the Black Tom Explosion? Apparently in 1916, some Germans set fire to a munitions depot near Jersey City, NJ. Killing at least 50 and creating a massive explosion that actually damaged the Statue of Liberty. Supposedly this was a factor in the US entering WWI. I sure as heck was not taught this in history class, and you would think after 9/11 the talking heads would have been all over it. This seems too big to have fallen by the wayside.

I recall seeing something about it in the 'Mysteries of the Abandoned' TV show.

[Sudy]

I had a similar moment recently when I learned of the Litton Industries bombing in Toronto in 1982:

In October, 1982, three members of the Direct Action "urban guerrilla" group acted upon "their wish to end the arms race"[1] and filled a stolen pick-up truck with 550 kg (1,210 lb) of dynamite and drove from Vancouver to Toronto, Canada planting the bomb outside Litton Industries, a manufacturer of American cruise missile components many feared would increase the risk of nuclear war.[2] Although the militants had phoned to evacuate the building, the bomb was accidentally detonated several minutes before its announced deadline, injuring several bomb squad police officers and civilians in the vicinity.

Now I was born in 84, so obviously I wouldn't have been aware of it at the time. But I don't remember hearing about it once growing up. Maybe that's not so strange as no one was killed, but I've lived in or near Toronto for most of my life. You'd think I'd have encountered some anniversary news articles or something, or that it would have slipped back into the news as the conspirators finished their sentences. It so happens that a co-worker I'm close to actually worked security for the facility around that time. I felt silly when she mentioned it and I had to google it.

[hitbyambulance]

Has anyone previously heard of the Black Tom Explosion? Apparently in 1916, some Germans set fire to a munitions depot near Jersey City, NJ. Killing at least 50 and creating a massive explosion that actually damaged the Statue of Liberty. Supposedly this was a factor in the US entering WWI. I sure as heck was not taught this in history class, and you would think after 9/11 the talking heads would have been all over it. This seems too big to have fallen by the wayside.

weirdly, i just saw a reference to this just about half an hour ago (while reading about the Halifax explosion of 1917) and also thinking i had never heard of it...

[Scuzz]

Another famous example of this is that Darth Vader never said "Luke, I am your father".

Strangely enough I was watching a Dark Souls youtube yesterday that had recently streamed live. The player mentioned being in quarantine, in Canada. Anyway, he also mentioned having just read about "The Mandela Effect" and pointed to the "Luke, I am your father" quote as an example.

[Scuzz]

Has anyone previously heard of the Black Tom Explosion? Apparently in 1916, some Germans set fire to a munitions depot near Jersey City, NJ. Killing at least 50 and creating a massive explosion that actually damaged the Statue of Liberty. Supposedly this was a factor in the US entering WWI. I sure as heck was not taught this in history class, and you would think after 9/11 the talking heads would have been all over it. This seems too big to have fallen by the wayside.

I too have read a lot about WW1 and have never heard of this. In WW2 there was a huge explosion in the Oakland munitions yard but that was just an accident.

[Holman]

Are there any other examples of "Mandela Effect" that are as significant as the Mandela one?

When I go searching for examples, most of what I see is brand-name confusion or trivial misquotations.

[Scuzz]

With all the conspiracy crap you see on the internet now the Mandela effect has been replaced by the idiot effect.

[Unagi]

Are there any other examples of "Mandela Effect" that are as significant as the Mandela one?

I always found the Mandela one to be off-putting, because I had never once come close to being under it.

Anything I think of fall under the umbrella of 'urban myth'.

[Holman]

Are there any other examples of "Mandela Effect" that are as significant as the Mandela one?

I always found the Mandela one to be off-putting, because I had never once come close to being under it.

Anything I think of fall under the umbrella of 'urban myth'.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of anyone anywhere saying Mandela died in prison. There's no real "effect" of the "Mandela effect" except the obvious fact that hard-to-remember details are sometimes replaced by easier equivalents.

The three categories in play seem to be urban myths (i.e. belief that something that never happened happened), mistaken transmission (e.g. "Play it again, Sam"), and basic ignorance of common facts.

I suppose "historical myths" (e.g. Washington and the cherry tree, black Confederate soldiers) might be a special category of urban myth designed and propagated to serve particular interests. This is probably the most interesting set, but it doesn't fit the "everyone misremembers this" Mandela effect because it's intentionally false.

[YellowKing]

The whole thing irritates me because it can be chalked up to "human memory is really, really terrible."

[hitbyambulance]

The whole thing irritates me because it can be chalked up to "human memory is really, really terrible."

with a doubling down of 'there's no way _i_ can possibly be (remembering) wrong; it must be everyone else/the entire fabric of existence' (see: the make-your-own-reality mindset of the US today)

[Holman]

The whole thing irritates me because it can be chalked up to "human memory is really, really terrible."

Yeah. It would only be interesting if there were some meaningful pattern like "people remember wins and forget losses" or "everyone exaggerates the effect of violence" or something similar.

If it's just a collection of inaccurate quotes or mistaken names, it's trivia.

[Unagi]

I'm sure it would reveal things like: Racist are disproportionally more likely to have absolutely no idea what Nelson Mandela did or when.

But just having no idea what Nelson Mandela did, or when, would not make one a racist.

[Sudy]

The creative part of my brain finds the Mandela effect immensely intriguing. This is the same part of me that can be put under a spell by Chariots of the Gods.

The skeptic aspect of my mind thinks it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So, a considerable portion of humanity slipped into a parallel universe and one of the biggest clues is that the Berenstain Bears changed the way they spell their frigging name?

[Holman]

The skeptic aspect of my mind thinks it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So, a considerable portion of humanity slipped into a parallel universe and one of the biggest clues is that the Berenstain Bears changed the way they spell their frigging name?

Is that what it suggests, though? It seems to me that the examples usually given just say that people make mistakes based on association with what they already know.

"Whateverstein" is a much more common spelling than "Whateverstain." Some people assume Eli Whitney was black because his name (when they heard it once in school) went straight to a discussion of cotton and American slavery. Non-New-Yorkers assume the Statue of Liberty is on Ellis Island because the two are always intimately linked in the story of immigration through NYC.

The more someone cares about a topic, the less they'll make these mistakes. Most of them are the equivalent of someone misremembering Luke Skywalker's aunt's name because they saw Star Wars forty years ago.

[Sudy]

That's not what it rationally suggests, no. But it's what the paranormal community has suggested and is the part I find ludicrous. Though again, captivating to ponder. But it's equally interesting to think it through rationally, as the last several posts in this thread have done.

[Jaymann]

It's like Occam's Sledgehammer.

[Unagi]

It's like Occam's Sledgehammer.

I believe you are thinking of Peter Gabriel.

[Holman]

Mandela effect hits home!

Tonight at dinner my 13-year-old made a casual reference to the myth of "Lincoln and the cherry tree."

We went around and around until I could persuade him that the original story was of young George Washington's honesty, but he swears he has only heard it in connection to Honest Abe.

Maybe this is a singular mistake, but the pattern makes a lot of sense. His generation was raised without the classic cult of Washington's perfection (since the Founders' slaveholding has caught up with them), but the cult of Lincoln is alive and well. Plus, Lincoln has the independent reputation of an axe man and log-cabin builder, so it's easy to imagine the narrative slippage from one blade to another.

Anyone else encounter this kind of mythtranslation?

[Jaymann]

Here's one for you: Do you remember women rowing the boat when Washington crossed the Delaware?

[Holman]

Here's one for you: Do you remember women rowing the boat when Washington crossed the Delaware?

Stumped.

I'd imagine that all anyone knows is the famous painting, and 18th-century hair can be confusing.

[Unagi]

Here's one for you: Do you remember women rowing the boat when Washington crossed the Delaware?

I think that was a Mad Magazine cover.

[Holman]

Here's one for you: Do you remember women rowing the boat when Washington crossed the Delaware?

I wonder if there's traction to be had in asking about Washington crossing the river to Delaware.

[El Guapo]

[Appreciative] Jaymann, I gotta say that I love how on board you are with the [emotion] pre-fix for post topics.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

One potential example: I clearly remember playing Operation as a kid and having the game actually shock me when I touched the metal sides. Many people I have talked to of my age or older (but not younger, interestingly) remember the same thing. But everything I can find online indicates that the game only ever made a loud buzzing sound when touching the metal sides and there was never any shock.

[Sudy]

I definitely got shocks when playing forky-facey as a child. My cousin taught me the game. There were little plastic faces in the wall... the eyes were tall slits, and the mouth a little rounded frown. The goal was to see how deep you could get the tines of a fork, a knife, or other metal object into one of their eye holes without flying across the room like an angel. One time I lost and saw Moses. He swore at me. The next thing I knew I woke up on the floor, my uncle yelling at us.

[Jaymann]

I have been thinking about one I've seen mentioned, was Kennedy's car in Dallas a four-seater or a six-seater? Many swear it used to be four, but then changed to six. But if you grant that there were only 4 people in the car, just who was driving? Governor Conally's wife? This evokes comical images of her hot footing it away after the shooting.

There is now a movie on Amazon Prime called The Mandela Effect. Unfortunately they played it for drama instead of laughs. It veered off into living in a simulation.

[Sudy]

I'm disappointed it doesn't star Nic Cage.

While I've seen the footage, and the Oliver Stone movie, and probably a couple of documentaries, not to mention a review of the in-poor-taste video game, it's never crossed my mind how many seats were in Kennedy's car and I feel like we're getting pretty obscure here. Like, how many buttons were on the suit MLK wore the day he gave the "I Have a Dream" speech? I don't frigging know.

Not directed at you Jaymann, just in general. Are the car's seats something that come up that often?

[Jaymann]

Oh this is the realm of obscurity (MLK had 4 buttons on his coat btw). On the Operation game, I think it was the mental shock of the buzzer going off that kids remembered as an electric shock. Even in the Stanley Milgram era of the '60s, I doubt manufacturers would be allowed to incorporate actual electric shocks.

[hitbyambulance]

On the Operation game, I think it was the mental shock of the buzzer going off that kids remembered as an electric shock. Even in the Stanley Milgram era of the '60s, I doubt manufacturers would be allowed to incorporate actual electric shocks.

i was going to post this earlier, but forgot. so, +1 (and i distinctly remember this game _not_ shocking you. physically, that is).