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MLB Post Season 2019

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El Guapo
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:37 am

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:31 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:26 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:15 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:12 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:05 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:58 pm
I think the theory behind the dropped third strike rule is that an out must be made with the ball in a glove. If you don't catch the third strike, you haven't completed the out so the batter is entitled to run. At that point to complete the play you need to retire the runner. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, but there is some logic behind it (even if it's not 100% consistent - foul bunt with two strikes is an out comes to mind).
Yeah, and you can tag someone with just the ball, not a glove.
Ball in possession, whether in a glove or in hand. That's the least odd exception.
El Guapo wrote:And for that matter it also bothers me that on the rare occasion when the runner makes it to first base on a dropped third strike, it still counts as a strikeout on the record even though the runner is not out.
That's my favorite part of it! I'm still waiting for that elusive 5 strikeout inning!
Look. you said "must be made with the ball in a glove". These are all examples of outs where the ball was not in a glove. I agree that it's the least inconsistent, but it's still inconsistent.
Yes, and I corrected it my response to you. I should have originally said "must be made with the ball in your possession." Believe it or not, I don't always triple check my posts for absolute clarity before posting them. Purple monkey dishwasher.
Anyway, the point is that you can have outs without the ball in the defensive team's possession (e.g., one runner passes another). And if that's the case, then that's not really a reason to have the dropped third strike rule.
Rules are allowed to have exceptions. Kind of like a foul ball on strike two is not strike three, except for bunt attempts.
Sure, but once you allow exceptions, the existence of the main rule isn't really a justification for having or not having any particular exception to the main rule. E.g., "you usually have to have the ball to get an out" is not really a logical reason to allow the runner to run to first base on a dropped third strike when you sometimes allow outs without the ball in possession.

Another way to put it is - if a swing and miss on a third strike is a strikeout, and you sometimes allow outs when the defensive team does not have the ball, why is a dropped third strike strikeout not automatically an out?

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:39 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:28 am


Oh, ok. So it is limited to five strikeouts then.

So far the "you could get a five strikeout inning" seems to be the best argument for the rule.


You could have more than 5 but it would almost have to be intentional.


First batter, dropped 3rd strike, reaches 1st. 1k, 0 out.
Runner steals second.
Second batter, dropped 3rd strike, reaches 1st. 2k, 0 out.
Double steal of 2nd and 3rd.
Third batter, dropped 3rd strike, bases loaded. 3k, 0 out.
Next two batters strike out. 5k, 2 outs.

At this point you can get to 6k with a regular strikeout to end the inning or keep piling on dropped 3rd strike "strikeouts". But that would mean the catcher doesn't have time to just pick up the ball and step on home plate and that all batters rack up 2 strikes before the drop. This is where it would have to be pretty much intentional. I can see it happening in a deep minor league game where everyone agrees to set some kind of crazy record. Never in bigs or high minors.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:44 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:39 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:28 am


Oh, ok. So it is limited to five strikeouts then.

So far the "you could get a five strikeout inning" seems to be the best argument for the rule.


You could have more than 5 but it would almost have to be intentional.


First batter, dropped 3rd strike, reaches 1st. 1k, 0 out.
Runner steals second.
Second batter, dropped 3rd strike, reaches 1st. 2k, 0 out.
Double steal of 2nd and 3rd.
Third batter, dropped 3rd strike, bases loaded. 3k, 0 out.
Next two batters strike out. 5k, 2 outs.

At this point you can get to 6k with a regular strikeout to end the inning or keep piling on dropped 3rd strike "strikeouts". But that would mean the catcher doesn't have time to just pick up the ball and step on home plate and that all batters rack up 2 strikes before the drop. This is where it would have to be pretty much intentional. I can see it happening in a deep minor league game where everyone agrees to set some kind of crazy record. Never in bigs or high minors.
Seems like a worthy use of game 162 where both teams are eliminated.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by stessier » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:52 am

It could really go on forever. A guy could score on every dropped third strike if the throws to the bases are bad.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:53 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:37 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:31 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:26 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:15 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:12 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:05 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:58 pm
I think the theory behind the dropped third strike rule is that an out must be made with the ball in a glove. If you don't catch the third strike, you haven't completed the out so the batter is entitled to run. At that point to complete the play you need to retire the runner. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, but there is some logic behind it (even if it's not 100% consistent - foul bunt with two strikes is an out comes to mind).
Yeah, and you can tag someone with just the ball, not a glove.
Ball in possession, whether in a glove or in hand. That's the least odd exception.
El Guapo wrote:And for that matter it also bothers me that on the rare occasion when the runner makes it to first base on a dropped third strike, it still counts as a strikeout on the record even though the runner is not out.
That's my favorite part of it! I'm still waiting for that elusive 5 strikeout inning!
Look. you said "must be made with the ball in a glove". These are all examples of outs where the ball was not in a glove. I agree that it's the least inconsistent, but it's still inconsistent.
Yes, and I corrected it my response to you. I should have originally said "must be made with the ball in your possession." Believe it or not, I don't always triple check my posts for absolute clarity before posting them. Purple monkey dishwasher.
Anyway, the point is that you can have outs without the ball in the defensive team's possession (e.g., one runner passes another). And if that's the case, then that's not really a reason to have the dropped third strike rule.
Rules are allowed to have exceptions. Kind of like a foul ball on strike two is not strike three, except for bunt attempts.
Sure, but once you allow exceptions, the existence of the main rule isn't really a justification for having or not having any particular exception to the main rule. E.g., "you usually have to have the ball to get an out" is not really a logical reason to allow the runner to run to first base on a dropped third strike when you sometimes allow outs without the ball in possession.

Another way to put it is - if a swing and miss on a third strike is a strikeout, and you sometimes allow outs when the defensive team does not have the ball, why is a dropped third strike strikeout not automatically an out?
Because of inertia. The logic behind the rule may have changed in the years since it started, but that's the theory behind its origin (as I understand it). As we all know, baseball doesn't change rules easily, and it seems to revel in its quirks - and this one is certainly quirky. Unless you can get folks to buy into the argument that this will shorten games, I don't think you'll get much support for changing it.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Jaymann » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:56 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:39 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:28 am


Oh, ok. So it is limited to five strikeouts then.

So far the "you could get a five strikeout inning" seems to be the best argument for the rule.


You could have more than 5 but it would almost have to be intentional.


First batter, dropped 3rd strike, reaches 1st. 1k, 0 out.
Runner steals second.
Second batter, dropped 3rd strike, reaches 1st. 2k, 0 out.
Double steal of 2nd and 3rd.
Third batter, dropped 3rd strike, bases loaded. 3k, 0 out.
Next two batters strike out. 5k, 2 outs.

At this point you can get to 6k with a regular strikeout to end the inning or keep piling on dropped 3rd strike "strikeouts". But that would mean the catcher doesn't have time to just pick up the ball and step on home plate and that all batters rack up 2 strikes before the drop. This is where it would have to be pretty much intentional. I can see it happening in a deep minor league game where everyone agrees to set some kind of crazy record. Never in bigs or high minors.
You could also have base clearing hits in between strikeouts, so does not need to be so convoluted.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:58 am

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:53 am
Because of inertia. The logic behind the rule may have changed in the years since it started, but that's the theory behind its origin (as I understand it). As we all know, baseball doesn't change rules easily, and it seems to revel in its quirks - and this one is certainly quirky. Unless you can get folks to buy into the argument that this will shorten games, I don't think you'll get much support for changing it.
I mean, it *would* shorten games, marginally, just by avoiding the occasional throws to first.

While we're on it, here are my other baseball rules platforms:

(1) set a maximum lead for baserunners, and eliminate pitcher pickoff throws. Super slow repetitive and annoying.

(2) when a relief pitcher comes in and existing runners score, 'credit' for the runs is split between the pitchers based upon where the runner was when the relief pitcher comes in. E.g., if there are runners on first and third and they both score after the relief pitcher comes in, the runner on first counts as .75 run for the relief pitcher and .25 run for the starting pitcher, and the reverse for the runner on third. Some ERA accountability for relief pitchers!

(3) runners that get on base and that score due to a pitcher error count towards that pitcher's ERA.

#Guapo2020.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:49 am

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:58 am
While we're on it, here are my other baseball rules platforms:

(1) set a maximum lead for baserunners, and eliminate pitcher pickoff throws. Super slow repetitive and annoying.
I don't like too many throws over to first (does anyone?), but I'm not sure how to resolve it. I don't think I like what your proposal would do to the non-pick off elements of baserunning (although Jon Lester would love it).
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Octavious » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:36 pm

Alonso comes up with a clutch HR in extra innings to have the bullpen blow another game. If only he knew how to pitch too.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:45 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:49 am
El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:58 am
While we're on it, here are my other baseball rules platforms:

(1) set a maximum lead for baserunners, and eliminate pitcher pickoff throws. Super slow repetitive and annoying.
I don't like too many throws over to first (does anyone?), but I'm not sure how to resolve it. I don't think I like what your proposal would do to the non-pick off elements of baserunning (although Jon Lester would love it).
FWIW I'm pretty sure that I read / heard this idea somewhere, so it's not an El Guapo original. But I think the idea is that you set the max lead at a point where it's realistic to be able to steal second from there, but not a gimme. I would imagine you would paint a line or something there so it's easy for the runner to see how far they can go.

A max lead would pretty much be required in order to limit the number of throws to first, because otherwise after the pitcher hits there limit presumably the runner could walk halfway to second base.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:05 pm

Just count a throw over as a ball until there's three balls on the count. It works the same for bunts and strikes.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:31 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:45 pm
FWIW I'm pretty sure that I read / heard this idea somewhere, so it's not an El Guapo original. But I think the idea is that you set the max lead at a point where it's realistic to be able to steal second from there, but not a gimme. I would imagine you would paint a line or something there so it's easy for the runner to see how far they can go.

A max lead would pretty much be required in order to limit the number of throws to first, because otherwise after the pitcher hits there limit presumably the runner could walk halfway to second base.
You're giving a big advantage to slow runners (who will be able to take a larger lead than they normally would) while handicapping fast runners who might be willing to take a more aggressive lead. Plus think of all the replay reviews where we try to determine whether the runner crossed the line before the pitcher released the ball. There would be an advantage for the defense in being able to play the first baseman normally instead of him having to hold the runner on, which might be interesting.

Anecdotally, I don't feel like I see a lot of epic "throw to first ten times" at bats these days like I remember as a kid. Maybe it's because the Cubs have Lester so I'm seeing fewer throws overall, but I remember the Expos would go so far as to put chickens on the scoreboard for every throw over to try to shame the pitcher. Man, the 80 or so fans at Olympic Stadium really dug that.
Isgrimnur wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:05 pm
Just count a throw over as a ball until there's three balls on the count. It works the same for bunts and strikes.
Too high of a cost for a throw over, which would end up being a big advantage for the offense. Pass.

To be fair, I'm admittedly quite curmudgeonly about baseball rules. I'm reluctant to make changes that have a major impact like this without a lot convincing.

Except for getting rid of the DH. Launch that fucking rule into the sun.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:24 pm

Baseball. Love it or leave it.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:24 pm

Baseball fever. Catch it.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Jeff V » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:36 pm

That picture is a lie.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Jaymann » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:30 am

Sweet, the Angels finally showing a pulse, winning two nail biters from the Dodgers, to sweep the season series 4-0, and 9 of 12 since the All Star break.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:52 pm

I'm glad that they rebooted the season last week.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Jaymann » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:41 am

Aaaand they haven't won a game since.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Lorini » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:23 am

The Dodgers replaced their under-the-mendoza-line catcher with Will Smith, who promptly hit six RBI's in his first game back. I don't think they'll be trading him for Will Smith of the Giants as had been rumored.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Lorini » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:47 am

Possible Dodger trade for Syndergaard:

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Hrothgar » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:19 pm

Is that an actual leaked trade discussion or just someone's wishful thinking?

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Lorini » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:07 pm

Hrothgar wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:19 pm
Is that an actual leaked trade discussion or just someone's wishful thinking?
Who knows. It all seems to be the same at this point :). Dodgers want to move starting pitcher Maeda into the bullpen because Maeda is very good out of the bullpen so therefore Dodgers would need to get another starter. Thing is, Maeda only gets his bonuses if he's starting so he's not too happy about all this.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Octavious » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:46 am

Well the Mets got Stroman and honestly didn't give up the world to get him. I'm just really confused as to what they are doing as is everyone else. :lol: I mean technically they aren't that far out of the wildcard, but I think this has to be part of a another trade.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by ImLawBoy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:16 pm

Trade deadline has come and gone. Lots of small transactions, but the big one was Greinke to the Astros. The Bauer/Puig trade with Cincinnati, Cleveland, and San Diego (coincidentally the three places we're considering for vacations . . . .) is interesting, but I'm not sure how much of an impact it will have on the races this year. Cubs "big" moves were picking up Castellanos from Detroit for middling prospects and flipping third catcher Martin Maldonado to Houston for utility infielder Tony Kemp. Not terribly exciting, but both deals addressed needs. I'm still trying to narrow down my list of favorite memories of the Maldonado era. The Cubs also shuffled around relievers in their ongoing game of Bullpen Roulette.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:26 pm

Kind of feels like the Red Sox brass is mostly given up on this season. Which is a little surprising...yeah, the division is *probably* (but not 100%) out of reach, but two games back in the wild card with the talent they have is doable.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Lorini » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:10 am

I think front offices are leery of giving up assets to play one playoff game. I also think the deadline is too early since they eliminated the secondary trade deadline.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by ImLawBoy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 am

The trade for Castellanos is already paying off! He had a huge* hit for the Cubs last night against the archrival Cardinals!



* In this case, "a huge" means "the only".
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:13 am

ImLawBoy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:07 am
The trade for Castellanos is already paying off! He had a huge* hit for the Cubs last night against the archrival Cardinals!



* In this case, "a huge" means "the only".
The hugest hit. Also the least huge.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by stessier » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:43 am

It's nice that they decided to end the MLB season this year at the start of the NFL season.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Lorini » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:21 am

stessier wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:43 am
It's nice that they decided to end the MLB season this year at the start of the NFL season.
For some of us of course :D

As our bullpen continues to implode, the Dodgers have to have their probability for winning the WS downgraded . The AL team who eventually gets there is going to be able to hit, and our bullpen so far hasn't shown the ability to keep us in the game against hard hitters. The only reason we won yesterday (Maeda has got to stop being a starter, that's for sure) is we out hit the Padres and they aren't even a good team.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:26 am

stessier wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:43 am
It's nice that they decided to end the MLB season this year at the start of the NFL season.
Well, that Fenway series against the Yankees was fun, at least. And I was even at the first game! So...let's just call that a win and move on from this season.

What the hell happened to all of our starters?

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:27 pm

Mets are on a tear and actually closing in on the wildcard spot. I refuse to get excited as this isn't the first time they have had a mid-season run. The sad thing is that if their pen was halfway competent they could be in first place. That does give me hope for next year as they will have a good starting staff even if/when Wheeler hits the road. I really doubt the Mets should or would offer him a ton of money. I really think he's vastly overvalued by a lot of teams and think they should just let him walk instead of offering a crazy contact.
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Octavious » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:11 pm

Mets are now 59-56 and 1 game out of the WC. What the heck.... They have been playing bad teams as of late, but this is pretty nutty. Series this weekend will be huge. The one really exciting thing for me is that Conforto is raking. He seems to get lost in the mix sometimes, but he's really a great player. He's been totally on fire the last week or two. :shock:
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by El Guapo » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:14 pm

Octavious wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:27 pm
Mets are on a tear and actually closing in on the wildcard spot. I refuse to get excited as this isn't the first time they have had a mid-season run. The sad thing is that if their pen was halfway competent they could be in first place. That does give me hope for next year as they will have a good starting staff even if/when Wheeler hits the road. I really doubt the Mets should or would offer him a ton of money. I really think he's vastly overvalued by a lot of teams and think they should just let him walk instead of offering a crazy contact.
The Red Sox have also been on quite a streak over the past week or so.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Lorini » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:19 pm

Be happy Cubs fans! Cards ahead 1-0, bottom of the ninth, Dodgers down to the last strike, and walk off win for the Dodgers!! They sweep the Cards and give the Cubs that warm fuzzy feeling :D
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Zaxxon » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:47 pm

Lorini wrote:Be happy Cubs fans! Cards ahead 1-0, bottom of the ninth, Dodgers down to the last strike, and walk off win for the Dodgers!! They sweep the Cards and give the Cubs that warm fuzzy feeling :D
I approve of this message.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by $iljanus » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:08 pm

Octavious wrote:Mets are now 59-56 and 1 game out of the WC. What the heck.... They have been playing bad teams as of late, but this is pretty nutty. Series this weekend will be huge. The one really exciting thing for me is that Conforto is raking. He seems to get lost in the mix sometimes, but he's really a great player. He's been totally on fire the last week or two. :shock:
Shoo! Go away!

The upcoming Nats Mets series will be pretty exciting.

Or our bullpens will implode and it will be hits for everyone!
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:21 pm

Chicks dig pitching and defense. - No one ever.

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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Octavious » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:06 am

Verlander seems to be doing okay in the girl department. ;)
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Re: MLB Season 2019

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:19 am

Octavious wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:06 am
Verlander seems to be doing okay in the girl department. ;)
Small sample size.

Because it's the Internet, so of course it exists, anyone wanting to perform deeper research can go to PlayerWives.com. I promise, it is sports-themed and not ... other things.

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