Video games are bad!

[coopasonic]

Wife said she had an argument with our oldest (12.9) about video games. I replied that she should test those argument out on my first.

Wife:
You wouldn’t have liked it either.....Video gaming can be an addiction, it can desensitize you, you can lose touch with reality, cause you to withdraw from human interaction.

Coop:
You are right, I wouldn’t like it. Show me the peer reviewed studies on any of those points. That sounds like a mom Facebook meme.
I’ve not seen proof of any meaningful distinction from any other form of entertainment. There is a lot of scare mongering around video games.

Wife:
No there are studies on it. I am sure you can find them if you look. I don’t need to look for them. I honestly think I have a front row seat to it all.

Coop:
We are not addicted, we enjoy it. I would be just as happy playing board games. I do have an obsessive tendency, but that is not addiction.
There is no detachment from reality and regarding human interaction, as an introvert with significant social anxiety, the computer and games in general are my main source of comfortable human interaction.

This was all by text. To be clear, I play a lot of video games. It is my primary source of entertainment... and my secondary source of entertainment. I'll call board games tertiary. So it's all about the games. I don't sit on the couch beside her watch Gilmore Girls reruns or Hallmark movies, which is her primary source of entertainment

Our 12yo is an A/B student, 1st chair in band and pretty good at FPS games. He is responsible, mostly respectful and polite. I feel like she may be pushing on him as a proxy. Mostly just lightly venting, but curious of your opinions and input. No, I am not looking for people to disparage my wife. I know she has the very best intentions.

[pr0ner]

Video game addiction is a thing. Are you trying to say it's not?

[gilraen]

Sure, it can be an addiction, but just because someone enjoys them doesn't mean they are addicted to them.

Also, I'd argue that those people who are glued to Facebook or Instagram, posting pictures and compulsively refreshing the page all day long counting "likes" are much more out of touch with reality and withdrawn from actual human interaction than your average (or even above-average) gamer.

[Freyland]

I think he is saying it's not a thing in his household. Big difference, and the point of his question.

[coopasonic]

Video game addiction is a thing. Are you trying to say it's not?

Honestly until you asked that question, I wasn't reading her initial statement as one item. I read it more like a bullet list of the evils of video games.

- Video gaming can be an addiction,
- it can desensitize you,
- you can lose touch with reality,
- cause you to withdraw from human interaction

As a single statement it makes more sense. I suppose I was getting defensive. Neither my son nor I are addicted to video games. I choose them as my primary entertainment to the exclusion of most everything else, which I guess she may see as an addiction. He actually splits time with more reading than I do.

I am curious about addiction as it related to video games and how that would manifest. That will require some research.

[Isgrimnur]

Wife:
No there are studies on it. I am sure you can find them if you look. I don’t need to look for them. I honestly think I have a front row seat to it all.

Transparent shifting of the burden of proof followed immediately by "trust me" and anecdotal evidence.

[LordMortis]

I can't speak to peer reviews but I treat video games as a compulsion and one I force myself away from often. I don't see much difference between them and the cigarettes I still crave. I get the same cheap endorphins and turning out the world with them as I do gambling. And I am largely withdrawn from human contact, to the point the I force myself to get out board game once or twice a month when I can. My introversion and anxiety and sloth are getting worse and worse as I get older.

The difference with my video game addiction is that is *less* harmful than a lot of other ones.

Now the desensitize thing? That does not confirm my bias,so I'd like to see the study.

I think there is not so unhealthy video game playing and not so healthy video game playing. It's probably not good to send a child down a path toward the unhealthy but I have no idea how to spot what it is. Some kids could play 20 hours of video games a week and then move on to something else. Some obsess and use them as a sort of mild dopamine high. Like we get from crappy foods and cigarettes and gambling and television and social media. I wish I was the guy who got it from exercise.

https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/2012/01/br ... bad-habits

[coopasonic]

https://www.psychguides.com/behavioral- ... addiciton/

Emotional Symptoms of Video Game Addiction

Feelings of restlessness and/or irritability when unable to play
Preoccupation with thoughts of previous online activity or anticipation of the next online session
Lying to friends or family members regarding the amount of time spent playing
Isolation from others in order to spend more time gaming

Physical Symptoms of Video Game Addiction

Fatigue
Migraines due to intense concentration or eye strain
Carpal tunnel syndrome caused by the overuse of a controller or computer mouse
Poor personal hygiene

[Isgrimnur]

https://www.psychguides.com/behavioral- ... addiciton/

Emotional Symptoms of Video Game Addiction

Feelings of restlessness and/or irritability when unable to play
Preoccupation with thoughts of previous online activity or anticipation of the next online session
Lying to friends or family members regarding the amount of time spent playing
Isolation from others in order to spend more time gaming

Physical Symptoms of Video Game Addiction

Fatigue
...
Poor personal hygiene

So... a kid.

[gilraen]

I am curious about addiction as it related to video games and how that would manifest. That will require some research.

The jury is still out on specifics, although WHO did include "Gaming disorder" as a separate disorder in their classification.

For gaming disorder to be diagnosed, the behaviour pattern must be of sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning and would normally have been evident for at least 12 months.

The APA (American Psychiatric Association) has a more specific list of behaviors on their website, but they don't classify gaming as its own category of disorders.

[stessier]

Yeah, and from the first paragraph.

Although it is not yet recognized by the American Medical Association as a diagnosable disorder, video game addiction is a very real problem for many people. According to the University of New Mexico, recent studies suggest that 6 to 15 percent of all gamers exhibit signs that could be characterized as addiction. Though this disorder can have significant consequences to those suffering from it, its signs and symptoms can sometimes be very difficult to recognize.

Not a strong statement for it being a thing.

[noxiousdog]

I can quit any time I want to!

What I really have though, is a video game buying addiction.

[em2nought]

I think there is more blame to be laid on video game developers doors than on the firearms industry in regard to mass shootings. IMHO I've got no empirical evidence to point towards, just what my brain tells me.

[coopasonic]

I can quit any time I want to!

I am actually considering this as a show of good faith. Not quitting video games because that is insanity, but a device-free weekend and then maybe some on-going thing... Stone Age Tuesdays?

[YellowKing]

I look at it as one of those parental judgment calls you have to make for your own kid.

In our house, I have to limit video game time with my youngest because he tends to start having behavior issues if he's on them too long. I don't think it's video games per se, just screen time in general. He acts the same way if he's in front of YouTube too long. Probably a combination of not moving around and getting any exercise, eating poorly, etc. Just leads to irritability in general.

[Jaymann]

It's a matter of opportunity. I hardly ever play any new games, but when I get a hold of something I enjoy, I play the snot out of it. Otherwise I do a lot more reading.

[coopasonic]

I look at it as one of those parental judgment calls you have to make for your own kid.

The problem is that the parents have opposing views on the subject. One of us has 40 years of gaming experience and the other has 20 years of resentment.

[NickAragua]

I'm going to guess that the problem is less with the video games and more with the kid defying mom's authority. If it wasn't video games, it'd be something else.

My canned response to being bitched at about playing video games is to inquire whether I should start blackout drinking instead. After eight hours at work, an hour and a half commute, interacting with older daughter until she goes to sleep (and now an infant piping up every two hours, not really sure what I was thinking), if I don't get some time to de-compress... well, let's just say that my performance as a human being starts to degrade. At that point, it's best that I "withdraw from human interaction" and "lose touch with reality".

That being said, I'm pretty draconian about limiting my older (five year old) daughter's TV and video game time, because she gets pretty crabby if she spends too much time on the screen. Kind of like me, back in the day, now that I think about it.

[GreenGoo]

Wife:
No there are studies on it. I am sure you can find them if you look. I don’t need to look for them. I honestly think I have a front row seat to it all.

Transparent shifting of the burden of proof followed immediately by "trust me" and anecdotal evidence.

Something I enjoy doing as well. Mostly because I'm lazy.

I am absolutely addicted to video games and it negatively impacts my quality of life and emotional stability. But mostly it's an avoidance mechanism.

[coopasonic]

I am absolutely addicted to video games and it negatively impacts my quality of life and emotional stability. But mostly it's an avoidance mechanism.

What does addicted to video games actually mean to you? I don't get anxious when I think about not playing for a few days. That would be a telltale sign to me. I mean I prefer video games to most anything else, because they are fun and the rest of life is generally not.

[GreenGoo]

Withdrawal symptoms. Irritability, preoccupation, lack of centeredness, listlessness.

I'm going by memory since I haven't not played videos games for longer than 48 hours in years.

[Hrothgar]

If I were to put that through my wife translator, I'd get something like:

Our son is pulling away from me.
I need you to reassure me.
I need you to be there for me.
I need you to hear me.
We need to be on the same team.

YMMV. Each wife is different, but you may need to step up the support and communication if she feels he's pulling away. So not really about video games then.

[dbt1949]

Being an only child I spent most of my time playing by myself. We lived next to some hills that I liked to go hiking in. I loved it. My parents were very liberal with me and let me go just about anywhere by myself. 99% of parents aren't like that.We went on vacations and my folks would go out fishing all day and I'd stay at camp or go hiking.
So I became not only self sufficient but preferred to be by myself.
In my later years this transferred into video games. I don't like multiplayer.
If it wasn't video games it would be something else to do by myself. Reading, boardgames, miniatures, trains, WMDs.
Has nothing to do with video games tho.

[Jeff V]

My wife has taken the stance that all games/TV/gadgets are inherently evil and bad for everyone...just because she feels she can do just fine without them. It extends to other things too...she doesn't drink, for example, therefore nobody else should either.

There was a time when I'd stay up too late playing computer games and spend non-gaming time wishing I was playing a game, but turning it into work ended that level of crazy. I'll play games while the kids are playing in the basement (more opportunity since she took over their playroom and I need to keep them as far away as possible so she can sleep before her 3rd shift job). The kids kind of shoot themselves in the foot...the 5 year old will sometimes start a tantrum if he can't play, and both of them are inclined to get so engrossed in You Tube that they forget to eat, then have fits when you turn it off.

The kids will play outside, it is regretful however that I'm not really capable anymore of engaging them in sports.

[coopasonic]

If I were to put that through my wife translator, I'd get something like:

Our son is pulling away from me.
I need you to reassure me.
I need you to be there for me.
I need you to hear me.
We need to be on the same team.

YMMV. Each wife is different, but you may need to step up the support and communication if she feels he's pulling away. So not really about video games then.

The boy and I have been playing games together for a long time, both the video and tabletop variety. Her interactions with them are more about getting homework done and using soap and deodorant. I do try to back her up in these things, but I don't take the lead because I have no idea what homework they have and don't have much of a sense of smell. The homework is because she is looped in with the teachers and is there when they get home from school to see what came home. Also, I never developed any kind of study habits because I never needed to. She did and she doesn't understand how I didn't and basically doesn't believe me. Apparently she doesn't think smart and complacent go together. Hi, I'm Coop.

Anyway, you may very well be right. I'm the fun one, for the older son anyway. I am actually the bad cop for the younger son because he manipulates her so easily. The older one also doesn't want to hug her at bedtime, but he still wants a hug from me.

Oh and support and communication are not really my strong suit. I can be closer to a robot than a human... and anxiety-ridden robot anyway.

[Paingod]

I can quit any time I want to!

I am actually considering this as a show of good faith.

I tried that for a little while once, then my wife got pissed that I was spending too much time reading books. It turns out her real gripe was that she felt like I wasn't being diverse enough in my entertainment. She didn't understand it. It didn't matter that I could explain that there's a thousand kinds of games and each one is a different experience and a different adventure. Nope. It's all "COMPUTER" which is just bad bad bad.

She really seemed to think there was something wrong with me that she needed to fight against and fix. I had to work to get her to understand that it was perfectly fine for us to have differing interests with intersecting lives. We didn't need to fight over what we each enjoyed doing as long as it didn't interfere with our relationship and the time we spend together. She seems to have finally gotten it, but on the flip side I need to remain keenly aware of the balance between "us" time and "me" time... a measure that she sets as an invisible variable each day and leaves me to figure out.

[LordMortis]

Also, I never developed any kind of study habits because I never needed to. She did and she doesn't understand how I didn't and basically doesn't believe me. Apparently she doesn't think smart and complacent go together. Hi, I'm Coop.

Heh, I'm Coop. I did develop some kind of study habits in college. They weren't good ones, but after work, if I wasn't at the bar, I was in study a group with friends where we all did independent study. It was good social time. We didn't get much done.

Oh and support and communication are not really my strong suit. I can be closer to a robot than a human... and anxiety-ridden robot anyway.

Hi, I'm Coop

[Kraken]

Oh and support and communication are not really my strong suit. I can be closer to a robot than a human... and anxiety-ridden robot anyway.

Hi, I'm Coop

I am Coopasonic!

[Toe]

Our 12yo is an A/B student, 1st chair in band and pretty good at FPS games. He is responsible, mostly respectful and polite. I feel like she may be pushing on him as a proxy. Mostly just lightly venting, but curious of your opinions and input. No, I am not looking for people to disparage my wife. I know she has the very best intentions.

This, to me, is really the key to all of it. As long as these trends continue, I would be of the "if it ain't broke..." mindset.

One of my wife's friends had a 13 year old that was a gamer who was similarly doing well in school, all that jazz. Then he started playing WoW heavily. His grades plummeted (it seemed like it only took a few months) as did his general mood and all that jazz. The mom, imo, was not quick enough to pull the plug, which prolonged the downward spiral. She started first with trying to limit his play time (which he would always seem to work around somehow), then passwording the computer (which he figured out), hiding power cords (which he found of course), stopped paying for the account (which he found alternate methods to pay), making him cancel his account (he then started playing on his brother's account). Eventually she overcame all that and got control of it. As soon as she did, he started improving at school. She eventually let him start playing again, but only if he kept his grades high.

So, yes, gaming can definitely have a negative impact on a growing kid, for sure. I would say, as a parent, you should stay vigilante, especially as he moves to different games but let the kid have his fun.

[coopasonic]

I would say, as a parent, you should stay vigilante, especially as he moves to different games but let the kid have his fun.

Batman agrees.

[Scuzz]

I am absolutely addicted to video games and it negatively impacts my quality of life and emotional stability. But mostly it's an avoidance mechanism.

What does addicted to video games actually mean to you? I don't get anxious when I think about not playing for a few days. That would be a telltale sign to me. I mean I prefer video games to most anything else, because they are fun and the rest of life is generally not.

I do get anxious with certain games. The Dark Souls series did that to me.

I recently went thru some medical testing with my heart. Turned out to be nothing terribly serious, but something I need to watch. Anyway, my wife asked my cardiologist if it was still okay for me to play video games. I think she would have liked the doctor to say I shouldn't. But he apparently told her not to worry about it. I wasn't there, I was out cold on a gurney at the time. I think she waited for that moment to ask the question.

[Paingod]

I think the dictionary definition of addiction is to continue doing something optional in the face of negative consequence. Playing WoW until you fail out of college might count, but playing 3 hours a night when nothing else needs attention does not. Gambling until you've lost your house may count, but buying lottery tickets once a week doesn't. Etc...

I recently went thru some medical testing with my heart. Turned out to be nothing terribly serious, but something I need to watch. Anyway, my wife asked my cardiologist if it was still okay for me to play video games. I think she would have liked the doctor to say I shouldn't. But he apparently told her not to worry about it. I wasn't there, I was out cold on a gurney at the time. I think she waited for that moment to ask the question.

Doctors may recommend I play games in situations where blood pressure is involved. With most of my games, I can enter a trace-like state of tranquility where the problems of the world can fade away. Just not games like PUBG. That actively spiked my blood pressure and heart rate.

[coopasonic]

I am absolutely addicted to video games and it negatively impacts my quality of life and emotional stability. But mostly it's an avoidance mechanism.

What does addicted to video games actually mean to you? I don't get anxious when I think about not playing for a few days. That would be a telltale sign to me. I mean I prefer video games to most anything else, because they are fun and the rest of life is generally not.

I do get anxious with certain games. The Dark Souls series did that to me.

I recently went thru some medical testing with my heart. Turned out to be nothing terribly serious, but something I need to watch. Anyway, my wife asked my cardiologist if it was still okay for me to play video games. I think she would have liked the doctor to say I shouldn't. But he apparently told her not to worry about it. I wasn't there, I was out cold on a gurney at the time. I think she waited for that moment to ask the question.

I meant anxious when I hadn't played a game for too long. I have had my heart rate spike enough for my Apple Watch to warn me about it, generally while playing online shooters (PUBG). Nothing else really hits me the same way.

[Isgrimnur]

I stopped playing MP in the yearly Call of Duty games and Battlefield titles because my mood would turn sour and I would be in a bad mood for hours. When I stated dating my now-wife, that was no longer an acceptable outcome.

[Blackhawk]

I've been addicted to video games. Badly in the Everquest days, a little less so later on. The impact was significant. It can happen.

That said, I've learned that there is something between zero and 'all in.' I think of it as controlled obsession. There's nothing wrong with letting go and getting lost in an activity as a form of leisure, so long as, ultimately, you're in control. And that's not 'I can stop whenever I want!' in control, either. That is letting yourself go when it is convenient in your life, then stopping when it isn't. Long weekend with no appointments or responsibilities? I'm gone. I may forget to eat, I may forget to get to sleep at a decent time. Long weekend with the kids, shopping to do, and Michelle around? Nope, I'm sticking around and will lose myself some other time. I only let that particular bit of my guard down when it's ok to lose control for a while.

[stessier]

That said, I've learned that there is something between zero and 'all in.' I think of it as controlled obsession. There's nothing wrong with letting go and getting lost in an activity as a form of leisure, so long as, ultimately, you're in control. And that's not 'I can stop whenever I want!' in control, either. That is letting yourself go when it is convenient in your life, then stopping when it isn't. Long weekend with no appointments or responsibilities? I'm gone. I may forget to eat, I may forget to get to sleep at a decent time. Long weekend with the kids, shopping to do, and Michelle around? Nope, I'm sticking around and will lose myself some other time. I only let that particular bit of my guard down when it's ok to lose control for a while.

I miss those lost days. When I was single, I would take two weeks of vacation and lose the entire first week. It was glorious.

I kind of hope I'm in good enough shape when I retire that I can lose the first month or so that way.

[Kraken]

It's been a long, long time since a game grabbed me so hard that I missed work or dodged other responsibilities. Right now I'm in a funk where some nights I skip gaming and just dink around on the internet instead, even though I'm sitting in front of my gaming computer. But not so long ago I got so wrapped up in Xcom 2 that I dreamed about it, so games still have the power to take over my brain. I don't think that fits a definition of "addiction" though.

[coopasonic]

I've been addicted to video games. Badly in the Everquest days, a little less so later on. The impact was significant. It can happen.

EQ almost ended my marriage, so I get that. In my case I would call it obsession rather than addiction. I don't know what the difference is but my brain wants to name them differently.

[Jeff V]

After watching YouTube videos of others playing games since he was 2, my son finally started playing some himself -- on my phone since my wife took away his Kindle. Now my phone is out of space. He'll play various games for 30 minute to about 2 hours while we're in the basement on wife's work nights trying give her some quiet to sleep. My daughter isn't (yet) into games at all, but watches kids songs and shows on You Tube. But she is less likely than my son to sit quietly, so often while I try to play a game, I'm interrupted with requests to read a book, draw a picture, "look at me daddy!" or my favorite of late. "daddy I gotta go pee pee!" It's only through brief respites that any actual game playing is done on my part.

This summer I'll be introducing my son to the concept of homework-before-play. The trick will be to make the homework enjoyable enough so he won't fight to the death against the concept. My daughter, as it is, is much more interested in reading books than my son ever was, although she still has a tendency to suddenly flip to the last page and declare, "The End!"

[dbt1949]

I've never neglected my chores or taking my wife out or anything important so I could play video games.
But other than that I'm pretty well addicted.