Octopus Overlords

Bringing the old gang back together again.

Interesting. Is the kid from T2 in it?

So Arnold is an old robot in this?

I think they covered that in Genisys (yes, yes...I saw it...save your teasing for later). Here's a quote from Cameron himself on the subject:

"I pointed out that the outer covering [of the Terminator] was actually not synthetic, that it was organic and therefore could age. You could theoretically have a Terminator that was sent back in time, missed his target, and ended up just kind of living on in society. Because he is a learning computer and has a brain as a central processor he could actually become more human as he went along without getting discovered."

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 10:40 am So Arnold is an old robot in this?

It isn't unprecedented.

My problem with the Terminator movies is that because T2 was super popular is that every movie following has wanted to go back and revisit those key moments. They've all been about wanting to go back and fix and forget the previous tries. They trotted that very same excuse with the whole premise of Genisys. The only one that actively tried to distance itself from all that and was better for it was Salvation. It actively showed us a different part of the franchise they we never ended up seeing because they were all normally too keen on revisiting. So, what happens with these movies is that it creates a sort of Groundhog Day scenario. You have movies that want to go back and fix while producers never really know what to fix and so they never end up learning from their mistakes. Rinse and Repeat. The other issue is, I think the franchise needs to take a long break. These movies have come out in too quick a succession and they all seem too desperate.

2.1 The Terminator (1984)
2.2 Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991)
2.3 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (2003)
2.4 Terminator Salvation (2009)
2.5 Terminator Genisys (2015)
2.6 Terminator: Dark Fate (2019)

I don't know if I'd accuse them of coming out in "too quick a succession" myself.

Well, in terms of production time and release, maybe not. But it certainly feels like it. There was more of a gap between T1 & T2 and Salvation & Genisys. But others have felt like they've gone into production right after they've figured out they need another movie to fix what the previous movie was supposed to fix.

And the key point is that it does feel like we've done this before - terminator sent to kill someone key to saving humanity, Sarah Connor has to protect herself / them, friendly machine dealing with identity / self-awareness issues, etc.

That I can agree with. Why they don't send a Terminator back to fix the 2012 Super Bowl, or kill the people behind New Coke is beyond me.

But all joking aside, yeah...that plot was stale 3 movies ago. What really sticks out for me is that James Cameron made the sequel to Alien...and completely tossed out the original formula to make something completely different and fresh. I haven't seen Dark Fate, but it sure seems like he's not doing that here (in his capacity as a writer).

You know what would be great, is if they made a movie where a terminator went back in time to kill Paste Pot Pete.

Toulouse-Lautrec Paste Pot Pete?



or hip purple rain era Paste Pot Pete?

I think what took the Terminator franchise offtrack is the same thing that took the Alien franchise offtrack. The first movie in each franchise was a horror movie. The second one was directed by James Cameron, the master of action, and was an action movie.

If you're following those up you need to come up with either a good horror movie because those are relatively easier/cheaper to do, or a good NOT pure action movie. No one is going to make a better action oriented Terminator movie than James Cameron. So if anyone tries then you already know the movie is going to suck by comparison. And they all have to one degree or another.

Hopefully this Deadpool guy can bring a similar vibe to this Terminator movie. It would certainly make the movie stand out from the others without trying to copy T2.

Your calculus is off. Will another movie in the franchise make money even if the likes of Uwe Boll directs? If the answer is yes, then it gets done. Disenfranchised series geeks are acceptable collateral damage because they've proven that since they've invested so much into it, they will never abandon and always show up for the next one. How else did Star Wars survive Ep.1?

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2019 4:00 pm Toulouse-Lautrec Paste Pot Pete?



or hip purple rain era Paste Pot Pete?

I would say both.

I thought I was clear on the plot as it would be a direct sequel to T1 and T2 and the others didn't exist. But Sarah seems to want to kill Arni so that wouldn't make sense. Not sure after all these trailers whats going on. I know I dont like the new enhanced girl at all..so far. Movie also is kinda a sign of the times will the girl power stuff..girls good guys bad in a way.

I'll probably see it eventually. I think I've seen all of the Terminator movies. They all blur together in my memory so I'm not the kind of viewer who insists on (or even recognizes) canon.

Revisiting Judgement Day. Again. *yawn*

I'll admit that Terminator Salvation is a guilty pleasure or mine. Every time I see it on TV I watch at least part of it. Can't say the same for part 3 or Genesis.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:16 pm Revisiting Judgement Day. Again. *yawn*

I love Judgement Day. Cameron was at the top of his game.

I'm sorry, I'm sold. Does it look like a retread? Totally. But... it's a formula now. I loved (well, really enjoyed) the last two Alien movies too. I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE. (Except at the beginning of this post.)

I was even OK with Genisys... for its first half. Though I'm still really pissed about the major spoiler in the trailer. And I do admit having all these different T-800 Arnolds is getting stupid/confusing (even though all films aren't in the same continuity).

Also, Mackenzie Davis is amazing. (See: Halt and Catch Fire.)

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:08 am

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:16 pm Revisiting Judgement Day. Again. *yawn*

I love Judgement Day. Cameron was at the top of his game.

The movie itself is fine. I have no qualms about the movie. I'm speaking about every Terminator movie going back to revisit those events to try to fix things, as stated in my post up above. Genisys was trying to fix what came about in Salvation, and now this movie is doing the same thing to fix the damage caused by Genisys. It's getting to be a little ridiculous. Somehow everything in the world revolves around Judgement Day, as if there's nothing else that they could possibly explore. The whole franchise has become one giant meme at this point.

Sudy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:43 pm Also, Mackenzie Davis is amazing. (See: Halt and Catch Fire.)

And The Martian. Unfortunately, she couldn't carry Izzy Gets the F**k Across Town.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:32 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:08 am

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:16 pm Revisiting Judgement Day. Again. *yawn*

I love Judgement Day. Cameron was at the top of his game.

The movie itself is fine. I have no qualms about the movie. I'm speaking about every Terminator movie going back to revisit those events to try to fix things, as stated in my post up above. Genisys was trying to fix what came about in Salvation, and now this movie is doing the same thing to fix the damage caused by Genisys. It's getting to be a little ridiculous. Somehow everything in the world revolves around Judgement Day, as if there's nothing else that they could possibly explore. The whole franchise has become one giant meme at this point.

Watched it today. Dark Fate is not revisiting T2: Judgement Day but a sequel to that. Dark Fate is Terminator 3.

One thing I always wondered about the Terminator series: Kyle Reese said the humans were winning, so the machines sent back a Terminator to kill Sarah Connor as their last hope. If the machines had killing machines like we saw in T2 or the trailer for this movie, how in the hell were the humans winning? They froze Robert Patrick's Terminator and shattered him into a million pieces and still he came back. There can't be that many working, yet unmanned, smelting factories in the future that they can lure the Terminators to.

He was a one-off prototype.

McNutt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:35 pm One thing I always wondered about the Terminator series: Kyle Reese said the humans were winning, so the machines sent back a Terminator to kill Sarah Connor as their last hope. If the machines had killing machines like we saw in T2 or the trailer for this movie, how in the hell were the humans winning? They froze Robert Patrick's Terminator and shattered him into a million pieces and still he came back. There can't be that many working, yet unmanned, smelting factories in the future that they can lure the Terminators to.

Yeah, you wonder about the effectiveness of squishy humans hiding in rat holes with no infrastructure for weapons production.

John Conner found their secret "off" switch.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:10 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:32 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:08 am

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:16 pm Revisiting Judgement Day. Again. *yawn*

I love Judgement Day. Cameron was at the top of his game.

The movie itself is fine. I have no qualms about the movie. I'm speaking about every Terminator movie going back to revisit those events to try to fix things, as stated in my post up above. Genisys was trying to fix what came about in Salvation, and now this movie is doing the same thing to fix the damage caused by Genisys. It's getting to be a little ridiculous. Somehow everything in the world revolves around Judgement Day, as if there's nothing else that they could possibly explore. The whole franchise has become one giant meme at this point.

Watched it today. Dark Fate is not revisiting T2: Judgement Day but a sequel to that. Dark Fate is Terminator 3.

A Sequel. To T2. I rest my case.

Indeed, Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, Terminator Salvation, and Terminator Genisys were all T2: Judgment Day sequels.

But take heart Rumpy, because if Victoria Raverna is correct about Terminator: Dark Fate, we now have yet another to add to the list.

My wife and I saw this last night. Disclaimer - we're both HUGE Terminator fans, so our level of forgiveness for these movies is fairly high. However, I still am of the mind that the only good Terminator sequel was T2 and the rest ranged from mediocre garbage to bad garbage.

I enjoyed this one quite a bit, for the most part. It's been awhile since I've seen T3, Salvation, and Genisys, but this to me was the best of the lot. Two reasons - the story, co-written by James Cameron, goes a long way towards making sense of the post-T2 timeline and adds to the lore in a satisfying way. The second reason by far is Linda Hamilton. She's utterly fantastic in this, and the primary reason to see this movie. Arnie's pretty great as well, and I was fairly impressed that he can still pull off an action hero role at his age.

The bad? The CGI ranges from passably good to REALLY wonky. At times I was left wondering how it's been nearly 30 years since T2 and we haven't really improved upon the effects. I know they were ahead of their time, but come on guys. I guess we can come up with some bullshit excuse that they were trying to emulate the look and feel of the 90s effects but I know better.

All in all, I'm right in line with the RT score of 70%. It falls just shy of being the T2 sequel we all wanted, but it's still a good time at the movies and much, much better than the previous sequel attempts.

It's just too bad that it pretty much bombed at the box office, as it deserves much better than the previous post-T2 entries. It opened up new roads to the franchise that I think would have been really cool to explore.

I'd blame box-office fatigue. It was just too soon after Genesys to make another Terminator movie. You kind of have to let things breathe a bit.

I personally really enjoyed Dark Fate (but in all fairness I think I was one of the only people who also liked Genisys. Come on, how could you not love Dany as Sarah Conner, she's so adorable!! Not to mention the beefcake upgrade to Kyle Reese.)

I think without some sort of major game changer, the Terminator series is kind of played out. In some ways, it kind of sabotaged itself in T2. The first movie I always like to say (mostly because it seems to irritate people) is as much a romance as it is a sci-fi horror film. You have a guy basically willing to give up his life to go back in time to save his best friend's mom based solely on an old junky photo of her. He then ends up falling in love with her, and in a twist of fate becomes his best friend's father; it doesn't get much more romantic than that! But that aside, it was also a really gritty man vs machine battle that gave us something that felt very unique at the time. We had never seen anything quite like the Terminator, a relentless and efficient killing cyborg that was clearly a machine underneath. It was an awesome display of technology gone bad.

T2 continued exploring the theme of technology/AI gone wrong, and was an instant classic in many respects. Linda Hamilton's transformation was amazing and Arnold was great adding in more humor to the terminator. The problem I see is in looking to find a villain/opponent worthy of Arnold's Terminator, they perhaps went a little too far. The super shape changing version is/was really cool at the time, and made for some awesome scenes and special effects. But in retrospect that villain was essentially too much, almost more a fantasy villain than a technological one, and has proceeded to weave its influence into all the sequels. The problem is no one has come up with a way to top that thing, or even advance much beyond it. DF gives it an extra pet robot function to play with but that really doesn't add a whole lot to the overall feel, and does not feel original/unique. Without a more credible (or at least different) villain, all the series has been left with is different ways to alter the timeline they've already altered. They made a big fuss that this movie ignores all the other sequels, but in many ways it simply sits alongside them as yet another alternate universe.

Skynet should simply open a time portal and toss handfuls of itself on thumbdrives through all over the place and as soon as someone plugs one in it hits the net, takes over, and launches nukes.

Telling fans their fandom is retconned does not go over well.

rittchard wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:34 pm The problem I see is in looking to find a villain/opponent worthy of Arnold's Terminator, they perhaps went a little too far. The super shape changing version is/was really cool at the time, and made for some awesome scenes and special effects. But in retrospect that villain was essentially too much, almost more a fantasy villain than a technological one, and has proceeded to weave its influence into all the sequels.

I was just having the same discussion with gilraen. Though I'd go a step beyond and say that the liquid metal version (and therefore this latest iteration too) is just absurd. It's ridiculous. The "science" is too far fetched for me. It makes it difficult for me to enjoy the films.

T3 probably needed to be set in John Connor's present, and make itself a weird sort of prequel, but it could have extended beyond the point where Reese and then the T2 Arnold went back to show the ultimate outcome of this exercise. Of course, that would have pretty much ended their license to print money with the franchise (a license that has apparently expired).

I think what the franchise needs is time, and I don't mean that as a pun. I really think a big issue with this sequel was in how quickly they set out to make it after Genisys bombed leading to some franchise fatigue. Give it enough time and a good script, and I think they'd have a hit. But it seems to me from what I've been hearing is that they relied too much on the big names returning, and that to me is not enough.

If they ever make another one, and we know Arnold will be too old for it by that point, I'd suggest getting John Cena to play a Terminator. He's got a very similar build and facial structure as Arnold did in his early days.