Dayton mass shooting

[tjg_marantz]

https://www.whio.com/news/crime--law/po ... lnDLdZQxM/

9 dead, bunch injured.

Shooter dead as well.

Everything is not awesome.

[Holman]

TIRED: "It's too early to talk politics about yesterday's mass shooting because the bodies are still being recovered."

WIRED: "It's too early to talk politics about yesterday's mass shooting because today's mass shooting just started."

[Zitterbacke]

POTUS: T&P

[msteelers]

My wife this morning: Did you hear about the mass shooting?

Me: which one?

[LawBeefaroni]

Another crazy piece of shit. These guys are going to keep coming out of the woodwork as social and news media make them into folk heroes (among whatever fucked up incel/hate group they belong).

And I really hate to say this but it's yet a other AR15 build (Dayton) or AK clone (Texas). Having been through a lot of tactical pistol and tactical carbine training in the past year, there is no doubt that the AR platform is incredibly efficient even in the hands of a relative novice. Moving and engaging multiple targets with an AR is like walking and aiming a stick where you want to shoot. The terminal ballistics of the .223 means every hit is far more likely to be fatal. Doing the same with a pistol (or bolt action rifle, etc,) is much more difficult. It's harder to get on target with follow ups, it's harder to stay on target and each hit is far less lehal. That's why you want an AR15 in your own hands when shit hits the fan and you run like hell if someone else has one and you don't. Said every trainer I've had.

I don't know what the answer is but we need something. Mental health screening for firearms possession? AR15/AK registry? No idea. What we don't need are Dems who know nothing about firearms or firearms ownership dictating terms nor do we need the NRA-backed GOP's idiotic all guns for everyone approach.

[Exodor]

I don't know what the answer is but we need something. Mental health screening for firearms possession? AR15/AK registry? No idea. What we don't need are Dems who know nothing about firearms or firearms ownership dictating terms nor do we need the NRA-backed GOP's idiotic all guns for everyone approach.

Melt all the guns.


Or at least ban AR/AK type weapons.

[Z-Corn]

I don't know what the answer is but we need something. Mental health screening for firearms possession? AR15/AK registry? No idea. What we don't need are Dems who know nothing about firearms or firearms ownership dictating terms nor do we need the NRA-backed GOP's idiotic all guns for everyone approach.

Melt all the guns.


Or at least ban AR/AK type weapons.

Everything but black powder muzzle loaders. You can very capably hunt with them, they are fun to shoot and the barrier to entry is high.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Of course there are other confounding factors, but these stats are pretty striking:

Bill Clinton banned assault weapons in 1994; mass shootings dropped by 43%.

Bush and the GOP let the ban expire in 2004; they went up over 230%.

[Kraken]

There is very little trustworthy research into gun violence, and that's by design. One thing that is definitely supported, as well as intuitive, is that fewer guns = less gun violence. However, even that is not as clear-cut as it sounds, as states with fewer guns also lack a strong gun culture. IOW, disarming rabid gun enthusiasts is not a magic bullet.

[Holman]

I keep seeing the point made that only about 10% of mass shooters suffer from serious mental illness. If that’s the case, it tracks with the population at large. It’s not the cause.

Other developed nations have mental illness. They have disaffected young men. They have video games.

We’re the only one that has regular mass shootings.

[Daehawk]

One of those killed was the shooters own 22 year old sister.

[msteelers]

I keep seeing the point made that only about 10% of mass shooters suffer from serious mental illness. If that’s the case, it tracks with the population at large. It’s not the cause.

I'd be interested to see the data behind that, because on the surface it seems to me that anyone who has the mindset of taking out as many innocent people as possible is obviously mentally ill. But if they are considering mass shootings as being events where 3 or more people are shot then I can see where only 10% of those shooters would suffer from mental illness.

Part of the problem here is we haven't even been able to come up with a clear cut and consistent way to describe these shootings. Mass shootings like what we saw in El Paso and in Ohio this weekend feel like a totally different beast than, say, a drive-by shooting. Calling them both "mass shootings" feels wrong.

Other developed nations have mental illness. They have disaffected young men. They have video games.

We’re the only one that has regular mass shootings.

But the young men in their countries still act out, just in different ways. Aren't a lot of the ISIS fighters classified as disaffected young men?

[Isgrimnur]

Anders Behring Breivik.

[Alefroth]

There it is-

Video games and godlessness.

[Smoove_B]

I'd like to be the first to cordially invite the Lt. Gov and the House Minority leader to go fark themselves. Repeatedly.

[DOS=HIGH]

There it is-

Video games and godlessness.

Texas Lt. Governor Ned Flanders

[Holman]

I keep seeing the point made that only about 10% of mass shooters suffer from serious mental illness. If that’s the case, it tracks with the population at large. It’s not the cause.

I'd be interested to see the data behind that, because on the surface it seems to me that anyone who has the mindset of taking out as many innocent people as possible is obviously mentally ill. But if they are considering mass shootings as being events where 3 or more people are shot then I can see where only 10% of those shooters would suffer from mental illness.

What I've seen is talking about severe, unresponsive-to-social-constraints mental illness, not just garden-variety depression (in which case the numbers go way up for everyone, not just shooters).

If every (non-jihadist) mass killer is pigeonholed away as "mentally ill" in an effort to avoid talking about their radicalization, we're just avoiding the problem. Tautologies are good for that, but they don't keep people safe or alive.

Other developed nations have mental illness. They have disaffected young men. They have video games.

We’re the only one that has regular mass shootings.

But the young men in their countries still act out, just in different ways. Aren't a lot of the ISIS fighters classified as disaffected young men?

I would love to see our disaffected young men act out in different ways than this.

But by "other countries" I meant the highly developed world. I think we're still a part of that, although it might be time to reassess.

[Skinypupy]

There it is-

Video games and godlessness.

Texas Lt. Governor Ned Flanders

They're beating the video game drum at full force today. At least three have claimed it's all about video games, without once mentioning guns or any of the hateful rhetoric.

But yeah, I'm sure that the guy who drove 9 hours to a border town and specifically outlined in his manifesto that he was out to kill immigrants was primarily influenced by Call of Duty. Yep, just that. Nothing else.

[Holman]

If we classified white-supremacist websites as videogames, they would suddenly find that computers have nothing to do with it.

[Holman]

link

[Redfive]

link

Quick, ban men!

[Alefroth]

link

Quick, ban men!

Poor fella, it's a rough time for you.

[Redfive]

link

Quick, ban men!

Poor fella, it's a rough time for you.

How so?

[MHS]

There it is-

Video games and godlessness.

Texas Lt. Governor Ned Flanders

They're beating the video game drum at full force today. At least three have claimed it's all about video games, without once mentioning guns or any of the hateful rhetoric.

But yeah, I'm sure that the guy who drove 9 hours to a border town and specifically outlined in his manifesto that he was out to kill immigrants was primarily influenced by Call of Duty. Yep, just that. Nothing else.

[Alefroth]

link

Quick, ban men!

Poor fella, it's a rough time for you.

How so?

You know, all the persecution.

[Redfive]

link

Quick, ban men!

Poor fella, it's a rough time for you.

How so?

You know, all the persecution.

I'm persecuted? Where did you get that from?

[Alefroth]

link

Quick, ban men!

Poor fella, it's a rough time for you.

How so?

You know, all the persecution.

I'm persecuted? Where did you get that from?

If you want to keep playing dumb, I can play along. From the post I responded to where you pretended men should be banned because someone pointed out women aren't committing these mass murders.

[tjg_marantz]

Toledo...

[Isgrimnur]

Toledo...

USA Today

President Donald Trump errored at the end of his Monday remarks about the weekend's mass shootings by mixing up the Ohio city where one of the shootings happened.

Trump said that one of the shootings happened in Toledo, Ohio, rather than Dayton. The cities are about134 miles apart.

"If we are able to pass great legislation after all of these years, we will ensure that those who were attacked will not have died in vain. May God bless the memory of those who died in Toledo. May God protect them," Trump said.

Trump called for the nation to denounce white nationalism and bigotry in his remarks.

"In one voice, our nation must condemn racist bigotry and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated," Trump said. "Hate has no place in America.”

[The Meal]

Toledo...

Is that the home of Bowling Green?

[Anonymous Bosch]

In related news, Confusion: Biden offers sympathy for the ‘tragic events in Houston today and also in Michigan’:

Former Vice President Joe Biden misstated the locations of mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, while speaking to donors at a high-dollar fundraiser in San Diego on Sunday night.

Biden, 76, mistakenly referred to the shootings as “the tragic events in Houston today and also in Michigan the day before," but later corrected himself, according to a pool report. Biden seemingly confused Houston for El Paso and Michigan for Ohio when speaking to donors about the shootings.

[Isgrimnur]

Biden seemingly confused Houston for El Paso and Michigan for Ohio

Are we positive he didn't confuse Houston for Ohio and Michigan for El Paso?

[Paingod]

Quick, ban men!

You should talk with my wife. She'd be on board with that.

[Redfive]

link

Quick, ban men!

Poor fella, it's a rough time for you.

How so?

You know, all the persecution.

I'm persecuted? Where did you get that from?

If you want to keep playing dumb, I can play along. From the post I responded to where you pretended men should be banned because someone pointed out women aren't committing these mass murders.

We can talk about dumb if you want.

I made a comment based off of a linked tweet that claimed hundreds of millions of women were 'disenfranchised disaffected' which I suppose means all of the women in the US if we are talking about hundreds of millions...since this only happens in the US.

I do note, however, how quickly you jumped on the source when a douchebag Lt. Governor blames video games.

So, hyperbolic claims are to be derided, but only the ones that fit your world view.

As long as it's me that's playing dumb.

[Redfive]

Quick, ban men!

You should talk with my wife. She'd be on board with that.

I think you may be on to something here. I bet your wife and my wife know each other.

[LordMortis]

"In one voice, our nation must condemn racist bigotry and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated," Trump said. "Hate has no place in America.”

Did he say it like he means it? It's hard to take him at his statement when he's done so much to fire them up over the course of 4 years but it's still a great thing to see it in a clear statement.

As to the ban on (isolated white?) men, I fear that as a culture we spend too much effort putting fear and subservience in little girls and putting anger and destruction in little boys. Add testosterone to the mix and

[Isgrimnur]

"In one voice, our nation must condemn racist bigotry and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated," Trump said. "Hate has no place in America.”

Did he say it like he means it? It's hard to take him at his statement when he's done so much to fire them up over the course of 4 years but it's still a great thing to see it in a clear statement.

Not at all. He's on-script and knows that this moment, at least, he needs to stick to it.

Video at ABC News

[Ralph-Wiggum]

He did the same thing after Charlottesville; he condemned the hate speech in his first address, then stewed on it for awhile before feeling the need to clarify his position with his "two sides" statement. His first address after these events are always carefully planned and scripted. Its what he says in the following days when he's talking off-the-cuff that you see his true thoughts.

[Isgrimnur]

Independent

Donald Trump has blamed what he called "Fake News" for stoking "anger and rage" in the wake of two gun attacks that killed a total of 29 people, one of which is being treated as a case of domestic terrorism.

In a tweet on Monday morning, the president said the media had a responsibility to safeguard "life and safety" in the United States.

[LordMortis]

And there it goes.