NFL 2019 - 20 Season with Playoffs

[Isgrimnur]

Garrett was being removed from the situation and Rudolph kept coming after him until he decided that he should resort to official's assistance after taking a shot to the head.

[Skinypupy]

Garrett was being removed from the situation and Rudolph kept coming after him until he decided that he should resort to official's assistance after taking a shot to the head.

You say this as if it somehow justifies swinging a helmet at another players head.

[Isgrimnur]

Did I? I'm pretty sure I didn't.

What I am saying is that neither of them are innocent in this case.

[stessier]

Spoiler:

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
4m
#Steelers OL Maurkice Pouncey, suspended 3 games by the NFL and fined, is expected to appeal, source said. This suspension, if it stands, would keep him from playing the #Browns again.

I was close.


Edit: Here is the rest -

[Lorini]

All deserved.

[LawBeefaroni]

What I am saying is that neither of them are innocent in this case.

Rudolph (and others) is (are) guilty of garden variety unsportsmanlike conduct. Garrett is guilty of unheard of shit* and probably criminal assault.


* There's old video of someone taking off Incognito's helmet and hitting him with it but it was more one sloppy motion than an attempt to bash his head in.

[pr0ner]

What I am saying is that neither of them are innocent in this case.

Rudolph (and others) is (are) guilty of garden variety unsportsmanlike conduct. Garrett is guilty of unheard of shit* and probably criminal assault.

Agree 100%.

[Scuzz]

What I am saying is that neither of them are innocent in this case.

Rudolph (and others) is (are) guilty of garden variety unsportsmanlike conduct. Garrett is guilty of unheard of shit* and probably criminal assault.

It doesn't excuse Garrett's helmet swinging but the video clearly shows Rudolph trying to yank Garrett's helmet over his head. He gets it up over one ear. Garrett then backs off and then goes insane. Rudolph does deserve at the least a fine for his participation.

[McNutt]

Trying to rip someone's helmet off is worthy of a suspension. That's going to escalate the hell out of a situation, so it should be strongly punished. While I think Garrett's suspension should go into next season, Rudolph needs to have a game off too.

[stessier]

Trying to rip someone's helmet off is worthy of a suspension. That's going to escalate the hell out of a situation, so it should be strongly punished. While I think Garrett's suspension should go into next season, Rudolph needs to have a game off too.

Reports are he will be fined but won't miss games.

Given how he's playing, that may be the stronger punishment.

[stessier]

I laughed.

[naednek]

Catching up on this incident this morning. Good lord.

Garrett is on "indefinite suspension" for now. I'd be perfectly fine if he gets booted from the league forever.

Naednek's link is dead, but this one is up (for now).

it's not dead, you just have to click on the watch on youtube link and it works.

[naednek]

Trying to rip someone's helmet off is worthy of a suspension. That's going to escalate the hell out of a situation, so it should be strongly punished. While I think Garrett's suspension should go into next season, Rudolph needs to have a game off too.

[LawBeefaroni]

There's been speculation in the past few weeks that if the Bears aren't already interested, they ought to be. They are just a QB short of being able to go on such a tear.

It would only require a slight modification of the fight song, too.

"Kneel down, Chicago Bears..."

[GuidoTKP]

The suspend Rudolph chatter reminds me of that scene from Remember the Titans when Sunshine flips the defensive end over his head and the opposing coach starts screaming at the ref for a flag, which prompts the response:

"On the quarterback? Give me a break."

Here's what we know:

• Rudolph is releasing the ball across his body as MG makes contact with him
• MG that wraps Rudolph up around his waist and uses his full body weight to drag him down to the ground even though Rudolph no longer has the ball
• MG may or may not have known Rudolph got rid of the ball ... not an especially egregious play but easily could have been flagged
• Rudolph for sure knew he'd gotten rid of the ball while MG spent the next second or two dragging him to the ground
• Rudolph got extremely pissed at one of the most physically imposing DE's in the game (for what he reasonably could have concluded was a late tackle) while said DE was on top of him on the ground ... nothing remarkable about Rudolph getting pissed that he got dragged to the ground after he completed his pass in a game he had already lost with 8 seconds left
• Rudolph, losing his cool, doesn't like MG laying on top of him and starts yanking at the back of MG's helmet ... pretty dumb, but his anger wasn't unreasonable and on the list of behaviors from QBs who had been dragged to the ground after they released the ball, doesn't seem that eyebrow raising, particularly since he was so effectively pinned by MG that grabbing at his helmet was about the only thing he could do
• MG loses his shit at having his helmet grabbed, gets up, grabs Rudolph by the back of the head and face mask and proceeds to Hulk Rudolph's helmet off of his head ... this is pretty serious escalation, but maybe still in the realm of you mess with bull you get the horns and not the craziest thing you've ever seen on a football field, but it's up there
• While MG is getting up, Rudolph kicks at him to push him away from his body ... this is the infamous, so-called kick in the nuts that Browns defenders are trying to point to as Rudolph escalating things; looked like he hit thigh to me and its pretty clear that Rudolph is kicking to push him away and didn't just run up and punt him in the nuts
• Rudolph's teammates at this point are trying to wrap up MG and get between him and the QB
• Rudolph, not liking the fact he was yanked off the ground by his head like a Ken doll as MG collected his helmet tried to circle his teammates and scream at MG some more ... I'm stunned at how many times people are pointing to this behavior as Rudolph escalating the encounter; he was pretty righteously pissed at this point and didn't take a swing
• MG then pulls out his best Dr. J windmill dunk impersonation and slams a football helmet at a helmet-less football players head and makes contact with that semi-important part of the bod where all the thoughts and feelings happen

There is no equivalency here. Every time someone talks about what Rudolph did, they seem to be missing the point. Everything on that play was in the realm of crap we'd seen before right up until MG decided Rudolph's helmet was the perfect weapon to use to try and smash Rudolph's skull in. There is no disputing the video. Rudolph was trying to get in MG's grill, MG said fuck that noise, and decided to go Thor's hammer on Rudolph's head.

You can't have that. Ever. It stops being football at that point. MG should have been charged with a crime. An NFL helmet in his hand used for a head strike on a man without a helmet is assault with a deadly weapon. It is not hyperbole to point out that had the crown of the helmet contacted Rudolph's head he likely would have had his skull cracked and there likely would have been criminal charges filed. The only reason serious injury was avoided was stupid luck. You don't get a pass on that by imagining the whole situation could have been avoided if Rudolph had accepted his tackle (after the ball had been released) with more grace. And if that's not the point someone who brings up Rudolph's conduct is trying to make, why bring it up?

MG should get 16 games. If the league said lifetime ban, that would make sense to me, too. The league needs to set the tone on this one. Indefinite suspension, minimum the rest of the year, is a good start. But he needs to miss games next year, too.

[McNutt]

I brought Rudolph up because I believe trying to pull someone's helmet off requires a suspension. Why do you feel we only have to talk about Garrett?

As to the degree Rudolph tried to pull the helmet off, I have not been able to see that for myself and was only going off of what I've read.

I did see Garrett's tackle and that honestly looked like no big deal. So Rudolph's reaction seemed excessive.

[GuidoTKP]

You should look at the video. I agree trying to pull a helmet off the way MG pulled Rudolph's helmet off requires a suspension. A QB on the ground under a defensive end feebly pulling on the back of the DE's helmet does not warrant a suspension (but if they want to fine Rudolph, I'm okay with that; it was poor sportsmanship).

I don't think MG's tackle was that bad either, but by the same token it's easy for me to see why Rudolph was pissed. He released the ball at the moment MG made contact with him. It wasn't a bang-bang play at the end. MG locked Rudolph up around the waist, did a dead hang on his hips, and dragged him to the ground, all of which took place while Rudolph no longer had the ball. If I'm a QB and all of that happens AFTER I've thrown the ball, I'm pissed, particularly at the end of a chippy game where I've already lost and I've already seen my top two receivers knocked out of the game with concussions following some hard core helmet-to-helmet hits. If someone wants to tell me MG didn't know Rudolph had released the ball and it was smart football to tackle him (especially since no whistle had blown), I won't fight that, even though the ball release happened right in front of MG's face. If Rudolph still had the ball it would have been a perfectly righteous tackle.

That's why I say Rudolph freaking out and grabbing at MG's helmet (while he's on the ground underneath him) wasn't an offense worthy of suspension. Rudolph's anger was reasonable under the circumstances, even though I don't think MG's tackle was that big a deal if you give him the benefit of the doubt on whether Rudolph had already released the ball. If someone takes you to the ground late, it's pretty normal football behavior to push, slap, kick at the guy on top of you. Rudolph didn't hurt MG, he just annoyed him.

[McNutt]

Fair enough. I might have blown up Rudolph's helmet grab a bit.

It's crazy when you realize how much money Garrett cost himself with one blow up.

[McNutt]

[stessier]

Man the Kaepernick workout story is weird.

[GuidoTKP]

Fair enough. I might have blown up Rudolph's helmet grab a bit.

It's crazy when you realize how much money Garrett cost himself with one blow up.

I read something that suggested that Garrett will lose way more money than he needed to based on the way the contract was structured. Apparently a lot of agents move base salary to certain kind of roster and performance bonuses (that are essentially impossible not to get unless you're Antonio Brown) so that if the player gets suspended, they lose less money per game. Garrett's agent didn't do that, so he's going to lose something like $1M. Pretty hefty.

[ImLawBoy]

Good thing the Bears traded three draft picks to move up one spot to pick Trubisky.

[Lorini]

Is there a Kap signing in the Bears future???

[Isgrimnur]

CBS Sports

After a wild day of rescheduling and statements from his representatives and the NFL on Saturday, Colin Kaepernick took the field at Charles Drew High School in Riverdale for his private-turned-public workout. Fans showed up outside the high school gates to watch and cheer on Kaepernick while thousands tuned in as local reporters streamed the event.

Bruce Ellington, Brice Butler, Jordan Veasy and Ari Werts took the field to serve as wideouts, as Kaepernick threw passes up and down the route tree for over 30 minutes. According to CBS NFL Insider Jason La Canfora, seven teams were represented at the workout: the Philadelphia Eagles, Kansas City Chiefs, Washington Redskins, New York Jets, Tennessee Titans, San Francisco 49ers and Detroit Lions. Kaepernick thanked them all for coming.

Following the workout, Kaepernick was seen speaking with scouts from the Redskins, Jets and Chiefs. He told them, "When you go back, tell your owners to stop being scared," according to The Athletic's Jourdan Rodrigue.

Kaepernick may not have signed an NFL contract on Saturday, but it was clear that there is a level of interest when it comes to his services, and he also proved that he still knows how to throw the ball.

Kaepernick threw post routes, in routes, out routes, fly routes and even routes in the flat. It's clear that he wanted to both show off his arm strength and his mobility when it came to play action and rollouts. He did throw a good amount of deep passes, however, and hit on most of them.

NFL scouts were definitely impressed with Kaepernick's arm strength.

[ImLawBoy]

Is there a Kap signing in the Bears future???

Based on the reported results of his workout, I'd like to see them roll the dice. While the Bears fan base does include a number of people who would likely be mad about it (as does every fan base), there's some level of safety in the area's general "blue" environment.

[El Guapo]

Is there a Kap signing in the Bears future???

Based on the reported results of his workout, I'd like to see them roll the dice. While the Bears fan base does include a number of people who would likely be mad about it (as does every fan base), there's some level of safety in the area's general "blue" environment.

But that would mess with the development of star QB Trubisky. I think every fan agrees that trading up to get him was a great idea.

[LawBeefaroni]

Is there a Kap signing in the Bears future???

Based on the reported results of his workout, I'd like to see them roll the dice. While the Bears fan base does include a number of people who would likely be mad about it (as does every fan base), there's some level of safety in the area's general "blue" environment.

It all comes down to performance. If he's good, not even great, his politics or perceived politics won't matter. If he can kick too, he'll own the town.

[LawBeefaroni]

I brought Rudolph up because I believe trying to pull someone's helmet off requires a suspension. Why do you feel we only have to talk about Garrett?

As to the degree Rudolph tried to pull the helmet off, I have not been able to see that for myself and was only going off of what I've read.

I did see Garrett's tackle and that honestly looked like no big deal. So Rudolph's reaction seemed excessive.

If Garret hadn't gone all full-on assault, Rudolph would have gotten his suspension and/or fine and no one would have cared. It's not really that noteworthy without Garrett's actions.

[ImLawBoy]

Is there a Kap signing in the Bears future???

Based on the reported results of his workout, I'd like to see them roll the dice. While the Bears fan base does include a number of people who would likely be mad about it (as does every fan base), there's some level of safety in the area's general "blue" environment.

But that would mess with the development of star QB Trubisky. I think every fan agrees that trading up to get him was a great idea.

While I'm certainly not going to second guess the wisdom of trading three draft picks to move up one spot to grab the Mitchster, he "got injured" last night against the Rams, so I'm guessing he might be forced to retire.

[Isgrimnur]

Yahoo Sports

It’s been reported that the player who set things off, Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph, will only be fined and not suspended, though on video he tried to remove Myles Garrett’s helmet and either intentionally or unintentionally kicked and grabbed Garrett between the legs.

On Sunday morning, ESPN’s Adam Schefter tweeted that Rudolph will be fined, and that the collective bargaining agreement’s fine schedule says the first-time penalty for fighting is $35,096.

The league could increase that fine — Garrett has not only been fined without pay for the final six games of the regular season and playoffs at minimum but was also docked an unspecified additional fine. Garrett’s monetary punishment for game checks alone is over $500,000.

If Rudolph is fined only for fighting, his punishment wouldn’t even amount to a game check: at his 2019 salary, one game check is $38,721.

[Jaymann]

It may have been the groin kick that enraged Garrett. Doesn't excuse anything but may explain the rage.

[stimpy]

Chicago fans would chew Kunte up and spit him out faster than he could kneel.

[Isgrimnur]

[Lorini]

So somebody explain to me why Phillip Rivers should be in the HoF and Jim Plunkett who won two Superbowls and was the MVP in one of them, is not. Rivers has been to the AFC Championship game once in 17 years and never in the Super Bowl. Yes he’s durable but the HoF should be about more than just durability.

[Jaymann]

Ryan Gosling could totally play Alex Smith in a movie.

[McNutt]

So somebody explain to me why Phillip Rivers should be in the HoF and Jim Plunkett who won two Superbowls and was the MVP in one of them, is not. Rivers has been to the AFC Championship game once in 17 years and never in the Super Bowl. Yes he’s durable but the HoF should be about more than just durability.

Is there a lot of talk about Rivers going to the HoF? I hadn't heard that. He's been a really good quarterback, but I never thought he did enough to get to the HoF.

[Lorini]

All night last night the announcers described him as a future hall of famer. Why? Where is the evidence for that? Yes he’s a decent/good QB but there’s been a lot of decent/good players over the years who are not in the HoF.

[Isgrimnur]

Bleacher Report

After all, Rivers is the eighth-highest-rated passer in NFL history. Only five quarterbacks in league history have thrown more touchdown passes, only six post-merger quarterbacks have averaged more yards per pass attempt, only seven have more passing yards, and only eight have higher career completion percentages.
...
I mentioned that the 37-year-old has the eighth-highest qualified career passer rating of all time, but Kirk Cousins ranks ninth on that list. Matt Ryan, Chad Pennington, Marcus Mariota, Matt Schaub and Andy Dalton also rank in the top 20. Passing numbers have exploded this century, making it impossible to make apples-to-apples comparisons between Rivers and quarterbacks from previous eras.

And those dynamics could hurt Rivers even more as his post-retirement years go by without a Hall of Fame nod. Because eventually he might also be jockeying for Hall of Fame votes with current quarterbacks who are on the rise.
...
That could be problematic for Rivers, who right now has to rank lower on the Canton priority list than shoo-ins like Peyton Manning, Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger. He'd also have a tough time beating out two-time Super Bowl MVP Eli Manning as well as Russell Wilson, who has superior rate-based numbers and a pair of Super Bowl appearances. And it doesn't help Rivers' cause that while Matt Ryan and Cam Newton haven't won championships, each has been to a Super Bowl and won an MVP.
...
It'd help if he were ever an MVP, an Offensive Player of the Year or a first- or second-team All-Pro. He might for a long time be the only non-Hall of Fame quarterback with more than seven Pro Bowl nods, but his strong cumulative stats are likely to lose their luster in an increasingly pass-happy era.

Those numbers, those Pro Bowls, about a handful of playoff victories and no major postseason accomplishments won't likely get the job done in the current/upcoming Hall of Fame climate.

[Jaymann]

The problem with Rivers is he never delivers in the clutch, and now he is becoming an interception machine. I've been saying for years the Chargers need to draft an elite quarterback. Maybe this year's tank will provide a decent draft position.

[Isgrimnur]

Yahoo

In every employment situation, the employee’s talents or productivity (whether proven or merely perceived by management) must outweigh their liabilities (whether proven or merely perceived by management).
...
At the heart of everything is the NFL’s perceived talent/liability scale of him. The wrong way to view Kaepernick’s employment hopes is to ask if he is a better on-field quarterback than the worst quarterback in the league, be it as a starter or a backup.

That isn’t the equation. It’s whether the NFL thinks his talents (and thus production) outweighs what it considers to be his problems.
...
Kaepernick had two chances to tip the scales in his favor Saturday, when the NFL invited him to a strange tryout of sorts for teams after over two and a half seasons out of the league.

One was to improve the perception of his talent. The other was to decrease the perception of his liabilities.

It doesn’t appear it went well. Twenty-five teams showed up at the Atlanta Falcons practice facility to watch him throw. Kaepernick, however, was understandably distrustful of the NFL. The session was put together hastily and Kaepernick had previously sued, and then reached a settlement, with the NFL.

It played into his decision to move the workout to a high school some 60 miles away. Only eight clubs made it there and just six watched him throw.

It’s clear that moving the workout alone was enough to turn off the majority of teams.

It appears Kaepernick never believed he was getting a fair shake from the league, and that is his right and there is plenty of reason for his suspicion. It is also his right is to apply for the job in any way that he wants.

He has to deal with that decision.

Kaepernick wanted to do it his way. The NFL wanted to do it its way.