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[Uncertainty] NFL 2020 Off Season

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Jaymann
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[Uncertainty] NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Jaymann »

Looks like the Chargers will just miss out on Tua, but at 6'6" I doubt if Justin Herbert will have many passes knocked down.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Kitchens is out in Cleveland.
BEREA, Ohio -- Even after a dispiriting loss to the lowly Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday, Cleveland Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens spoke like he'd have a job to come to on Monday.

Turned out, he would not.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Isgrimnur »

Giants fire Shurmur
As another losing season was nearing its end, the Giants glimpsed a promising future with quarterback Daniel Jones and running back Saquon Barkley putting together impressive performances down the stretch.

However, any glimpses of promise down the line do not include Pat Shurmur, who was fired as Giants head coach after only two seasons at the helm in New York, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport first reported Monday morning.

The Giants later announced the firing of Shurmur and that general manager Dave Gettleman would remain in his position for the 2020 season.
...
When 2020 kicks off, the Giants, once a model of stability on the sidelines, will have their fifth head coach (including interim) in six seasons.
...
The two-year run with the Giants was identical to Shurmur's two-season stumble as Browns head coach from 2011-12, when his Cleveland clubs produced a combined 9-23 mark.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:49 am
Kitchens is out in Cleveland.
BEREA, Ohio -- Even after a dispiriting loss to the lowly Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday, Cleveland Browns head coach Freddie Kitchens spoke like he'd have a job to come to on Monday.

Turned out, he would not.
BAM!
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Isgrimnur »

:ninja:

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by malchior »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:04 pm
Giants fire Shurmur
This is another baffling organizational choice by by the Giants. They should have fired Gettleman too. Putting this on Shurmur solely is weak sauce at best. Gettleman made several severe drafting/trade decisions already and saddled Shurmur with a rookie QB or a broken QB and a busted up team. To be fair, not all of that is on Gettleman but certainly a lot of it...so I'm just shaking my head here. It feels like the Giants owners are actively trying to push fans and season ticket holders away.

In the end, I fear that the Giants are not going to return to being a winning franchise any time soon with him at the helm. I've read there isn't much too notch Head Coach material out there but even if there were who would take the job with Gettleman at the helm? In two or three years I expect they'll be perhaps firing another mediocre coach and jettisoning Gettleman too on the backs of continuing mismanagement. Guess we'll see but my expectations for this org are in the basement now.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by malchior »

malchior wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:18 pm
Isgrimnur wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:04 pm
Giants fire Shurmur
This is another baffling organizational choice by by the Giants. They should have fired Gettleman too. Putting this on Shurmur solely is weak sauce at best. Gettleman made several severe drafting/trade decisions already and saddled Shurmur with a rookie QB or a broken QB and a busted up team. To be fair, not all of that is on Gettleman but certainly a lot of it...so I'm just shaking my head here. It feels like the Giants owners are actively trying to push fans and season ticket holders away.

In the end, I fear that the Giants are not going to return to being a winning franchise any time soon with him at the helm. I've read there isn't much too notch Head Coach material out there but even if there were who would take the job with Gettleman at the helm? In two or three years I expect they'll be perhaps firing another mediocre coach and jettisoning Gettleman too on the backs of continuing mismanagement. Guess we'll see but my expectations for this org are in the basement now.
Edit: This video just popped into my feed - it was before the announcements today but damnnnnnnnnn.


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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Jaymann wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:07 am
Looks like the Chargers will just miss out on Tua, but at 6'6" I doubt if Justin Herbert will have many passes knocked down.

2020 NFL Mock Draft
Name a successful pro Alabama QB?

I am not sold on Herbert or Eason either. Now Burrow, that guy looks like a franchise QB.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Lorini »

I'm sure they can win with another QB, just depends on who he is, right?
Steer into the drift.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Lorini »

NFL Today discussion on the hiring of minority coaches.

They specifically call out Jim Caldwell previously of the Lions and compare his record with the current (white) coach.
Steer into the drift.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Lorini wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:15 am
NFL Today discussion on the hiring of minority coaches.

They specifically call out Jim Caldwell previously of the Lions and compare his record with the current (white) coach.
I was sorry to see Caldwell go (winning record in Detroit, what? :shock: ) and the refusal to fire Patricia for a far worse performance is galling. It is also suspicious in light of the above.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by naednek »

sorry Bears fans...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/284 ... arter-2020
The Chicago Bears are committed to Mitchell Trubisky as their starting quarterback for next season, according to general manager Ryan Pace.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

naednek wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:37 pm
sorry Bears fans...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/284 ... arter-2020
The Chicago Bears are committed to Mitchell Trubisky as their starting quarterback for next season, according to general manager Ryan Pace.
Pace are committed to has no other option than to stick with Mitchell Trubisky as their starting quarterback for next season, according to general manager Ryan Pace.
He bails on Trub and it's all on him. He's praying for a turnaround.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by ImLawBoy »

I'm not worried about it. With the draft coming up, they'll have decent positioning to restock the system, and . . . .

Wait, did anyone else know that the Bears traded away a bunch of their draft picks, including three to move up one spot to pick Trubisky?
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by LordMortis »

Lorini wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:15 am
NFL Today discussion on the hiring of minority coaches.

They specifically call out Jim Caldwell previously of the Lions and compare his record with the current (white) coach.
I'm at work so I'll listen later.

Caldwell was fantastic but he had hit expiration... so long as you something better in mind... And it starts earlier than that. Firing Mayhew for Quinn was not a improvement either. (Mayhew also was ready to go... so long as you had something better)

Looking at what Schwartz did to fire up a time that was lost and hopeless, he was the right guy at the right time. When Schwartz could not control that fire, Caldwell was the right guy at the right time. He conducted the locker room and hit his ceiling, as what I can only assume was the most successful coach in Lions history. If you are going to get rid of him (and I think that was the right call) you better make for damned sure you don't lose the locker room and that you have a better game manager than Caldwell was. I don't know what they saw in Patricia's past to show he was both a leader of NFL players and an excellent game manager but he has shown none of that. Both Quinn and Patricia (and possibly Wood) should have been shown the door when they took such a dramatic step back on year one. They set the bar. 9-7 after going 10-6 is not good enough. The talent is better than that. The goal is superbowl. Now the new goal is to right the ship they shot full of holes next year.

I haven't really watched any games. They won't get my ad revenue or my Sundays. But from the outside, what I see in the last 4 years (even predating Patricia) is the Lions keeping the Patriot Dynasty alive after it's expiration. Quinn has soft spot for taking on Pat salaries and cast offs and trading up in the draft all to improve the Pats team. That includes firing Caldwell after one year working together to bring in Patricia (Not coincidentally how is the Pats defense since Patricia left vs what I can only assume the Lions holding the worst defense in football?)

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Isgrimnur »

ESPN
As I write this Thursday evening, the expectation around the league is still that the Cowboys will move on from coach Jason Garrett, whose contract expires Jan. 14. That they have not yet done so is a source of great consternation to their fan base and to the outside world in general. We're accustomed to these things being done a certain way, after all. If you're getting rid of your coach, you do it the Monday after your season ends. You don't have a week's worth of meetings with him about it.

But these are the Cowboys, and they obviously do things their own way. Plus, Garrett has been head coach for 10 years, has been on the staff since 2007, and he played there in the 1990s. Cowboys owner Jerry Jones has made it very clear that his relationship with Garrett goes beyond football. Moving on from this particular coach will not be an easy thing for Jones to do.

But move on we still believe he will. By not extending Garrett's deal before or during the season, Jones made it clear that Garrett had to show something this season. Missing the playoffs with a roster Jones thought was Super Bowl-worthy surely sealed Garrett's fate. It's a matter of when, not if, and the people to whom I spoke Thursday were extremely skeptical of the idea of Garrett staying around in a front-office role.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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I got the impression from ESPN reports that they were going to let his contract expire, rather than straight up fire him.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Isgrimnur »

I’m sure all those other teams will wait around for him to come on the market.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Jeff V »

msteelers wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:45 pm
I got the impression from ESPN reports that they were going to let his contract expire, rather than straight up fire him.
Don't have to pay unemployment if you do that.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Wherein I am reminded about taking my Sunday's back


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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Jeff V wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:46 pm
msteelers wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:45 pm
I got the impression from ESPN reports that they were going to let his contract expire, rather than straight up fire him.
Don't have to pay unemployment if you do that.
He's under a contract, he doesn't get unemployment. "An employer is not responsible for your unemployment benefits if you are an independent contractor. While employees are always eligible for unemployment benefits if they are laid off, an independent contractor will only be eligible if they pay separately into the state unemployment fund." He would be considered to be an independent contractor in that situation.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by EvilHomer3k »

I'm already on the fence with rooting for the Chargers after the move to LA. I'm still a fan of Rivers so I'm still rooting for them. If this happens I don't think I could continue.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Garrett wasn't fired, he just wasn't re-hired.

The Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthey, ex-Packers coach. Not a glamour hiring for sure, but did anyone really think they would hire the other guy they have interviewed, Marvin Lewis. Jerry needed someone who would put up with his meddling.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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EvilHomer3k wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:53 pm
I'm already on the fence with rooting for the Chargers after the move to LA. I'm still a fan of Rivers so I'm still rooting for them. If this happens I don't think I could continue.
Oh f**k, a washed up Brady would be worse than a washed up Rivers. I'm just holding out hope for Herbert. He was being talked about as a #1 pick if he had not played his senior year.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Jaymann wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:05 pm
EvilHomer3k wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:53 pm
I'm already on the fence with rooting for the Chargers after the move to LA. I'm still a fan of Rivers so I'm still rooting for them. If this happens I don't think I could continue.
Oh f**k, a washed up Brady would be worse than a washed up Rivers. I'm just holding out hope for Herbert. He was being talked about as a #1 pick if he had not played his senior year.
This is silly. This is just Collinsworth being like "hey, Brady's from California, maybe he'll go play there."

I would say it's 90% likely that Brady plays again next year. I would say it's slightly better than 50/50 it's with the Patriots, unless Belichick is super hyped up on Jarrett Stidham or somethign.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by naednek »

Scuzz wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm
Garrett wasn't fired, he just wasn't re-hired.

The Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthey, ex-Packers coach. Not a glamour hiring for sure, but did anyone really think they would hire the other guy they have interviewed, Marvin Lewis. Jerry needed someone who would put up with his meddling.
Cowboys met with Lewis to meet the Rooney rule or whatever it's called. I hate the rule because all it is a checkmark so that they cans say, see, we looked at a minority, and then move on to who they really wanted.

I don't see Cowboys and McCarthey lasting too long.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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LordMortis wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:31 pm
Wherein I am reminded about taking my Sunday's back

When I was back in Michigan a few years ago I found a Lions shoulder bag at Meijer for like $5. Arguably a $50 bag were it to have any other team's logo. I bought it.

When I carry it I get treated as if I'm Tiny Tim with a bleeding headwound cradling the corpse of a beloved pet. Everyone is so sympathetic and offering words of encouragement.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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naednek wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm
Scuzz wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm
Garrett wasn't fired, he just wasn't re-hired.

The Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthey, ex-Packers coach. Not a glamour hiring for sure, but did anyone really think they would hire the other guy they have interviewed, Marvin Lewis. Jerry needed someone who would put up with his meddling.
Cowboys met with Lewis to meet the Rooney rule or whatever it's called. I hate the rule because all it is a checkmark so that they cans say, see, we looked at a minority, and then move on to who they really wanted.
There's anecdotal evidence that it has been successful in helping black coaches get hired eventually, even in cases where their initial interview was to meet the quota. If you get a couple of those meetings you can get a little momentum going, and suddenly you become one of those rising names frequently mentioned as a future head coach. Once the media picks up on that, there's a decent chance you get a shot somewhere. You might never have received that tag if you didn't get a token Rooney Rule interview or two, though.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:19 pm
naednek wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm
Scuzz wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm
Garrett wasn't fired, he just wasn't re-hired.

The Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthey, ex-Packers coach. Not a glamour hiring for sure, but did anyone really think they would hire the other guy they have interviewed, Marvin Lewis. Jerry needed someone who would put up with his meddling.
Cowboys met with Lewis to meet the Rooney rule or whatever it's called. I hate the rule because all it is a checkmark so that they cans say, see, we looked at a minority, and then move on to who they really wanted.
There's anecdotal evidence that it has been successful in helping black coaches get hired eventually, even in cases where their initial interview was to meet the quota. If you get a couple of those meetings you can get a little momentum going, and suddenly you become one of those rising names frequently mentioned as a future head coach. Once the media picks up on that, there's a decent chance you get a shot somewhere. You might never have received that tag if you didn't get a token Rooney Rule interview or two, though.
But Lewis has already had an NFL head coaching job.

I do get the argument but this is a bad case for it.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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Phillips is out as the Rams' DC.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Jaymann »

But Lewis had an epically bad record. That's gonna be a tough nut to crack.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by LordMortis »

I dunno if it helps or not but there are only 32 possibilities to get hired every year and of those 32, 20 or more likely not vacant and taken off the table. I'd think any way to get your foot in the door is a good thing. You can't make mind that is already made up second guess itself if they never allow you the ability to speak.

(Though I also hate all qualitative procedures being reduced to a check mark)

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:23 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:19 pm
naednek wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm
Scuzz wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm
Garrett wasn't fired, he just wasn't re-hired.

The Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthey, ex-Packers coach. Not a glamour hiring for sure, but did anyone really think they would hire the other guy they have interviewed, Marvin Lewis. Jerry needed someone who would put up with his meddling.
Cowboys met with Lewis to meet the Rooney rule or whatever it's called. I hate the rule because all it is a checkmark so that they cans say, see, we looked at a minority, and then move on to who they really wanted.
There's anecdotal evidence that it has been successful in helping black coaches get hired eventually, even in cases where their initial interview was to meet the quota. If you get a couple of those meetings you can get a little momentum going, and suddenly you become one of those rising names frequently mentioned as a future head coach. Once the media picks up on that, there's a decent chance you get a shot somewhere. You might never have received that tag if you didn't get a token Rooney Rule interview or two, though.
But Lewis has already had an NFL head coaching job.

I do get the argument but this is a bad case for it.
No, I agree that this case doesn't support the argument, and I should have been clear about that. I'm just saying that this case being so stupid doesn't mean that the Rooney Rule doesn't otherwise have value.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by stessier »

Jaymann wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:27 pm
But Lewis had an epically bad record. That's gonna be a tough nut to crack.

We're talking Marvin Lewis, right?? He has a career winning record (131-122-3). With the Bengals. The guy is practically a god.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Jeff V »

Kyle Long retires after 8 years - last 4 mostly recovering from injury. Not unexpected I guess but still, this leaves The Bears sliding deep into Lions territory.

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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by EvilHomer3k »

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:11 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:05 pm
EvilHomer3k wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:53 pm
I'm already on the fence with rooting for the Chargers after the move to LA. I'm still a fan of Rivers so I'm still rooting for them. If this happens I don't think I could continue.
Oh f**k, a washed up Brady would be worse than a washed up Rivers. I'm just holding out hope for Herbert. He was being talked about as a #1 pick if he had not played his senior year.
This is silly. This is just Collinsworth being like "hey, Brady's from California, maybe he'll go play there."

I would say it's 90% likely that Brady plays again next year. I would say it's slightly better than 50/50 it's with the Patriots, unless Belichick is super hyped up on Jarrett Stidham or somethign.
Absolutely. That said, it's possible and in some ways makes sense. SD gets a draw to put people in the seats (since every game seems to look like an away game). Brady gets to play a year in his home state. Plus, Collinsworth has his head so far up Brady's ass that maybe he has insight into his thinking. I don't see it happening though. I think Brady plays another year in NE. He had over 600 attempts this year. If they were concerned about his arm strength/health I would think they'd have toned it down a bit. Even in games where they were up by 3+ TDs Stidham barely touched the ball. As long as Brady doesn't ask for a big contract I think he'll be back for another year.
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Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Jaymann »

stessier wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:36 pm
Jaymann wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:27 pm
But Lewis had an epically bad record. That's gonna be a tough nut to crack.

We're talking Marvin Lewis, right?? He has a career winning record (131-122-3). With the Bengals. The guy is practically a god.
I should have said playoff record where he is 0-7.
Jaymann
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Lorini
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Re: NFL 2020 Off Season

Post by Lorini »

naednek wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:14 pm
Scuzz wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:01 pm
Garrett wasn't fired, he just wasn't re-hired.

The Cowboys have hired Mike McCarthey, ex-Packers coach. Not a glamour hiring for sure, but did anyone really think they would hire the other guy they have interviewed, Marvin Lewis. Jerry needed someone who would put up with his meddling.
Cowboys met with Lewis to meet the Rooney rule or whatever it's called. I hate the rule because all it is a checkmark so that they cans say, see, we looked at a minority, and then move on to who they really wanted.

I don't see Cowboys and McCarthey lasting too long.
Mike Tomlin was hired through the Rooney rule. They had no intentions of interviewing him when Cowher retired but did so because of the rule and he's won like what 2 superbowls so it was a good idea all around. Clearly the league should have forced Mark Davis to interview minority candidates as the one he chose is a brain dead idiot.
Steer into the drift.

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