Fundraising for 2020/2021: Currently at $1580. Fundraising has begun, see the global post for options. Paypal Donation Links US dollars CDN Dollars

Never thought I'd be typing this

Everything else!

Moderators: EvilHomer3k, Bakhtosh

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 18800
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Unagi »

Obviously, the arrangement you two have set up right now is nothing like what the therapist described.


Personally, I think you should follow the therapists instructions, and I think you guys have made it clear it's not going to happen via the pool house.

And you guys seem downright giggly about it.

I mean, this is serious stuff, as Papa Smurph has urged one to consider.

I don't know you or your wife, but if her original declaration to you was serious, she certainly doesn't seem to hold the same convictions now.

It may be more fun to spend these 30 days stealing kisses, maybe eventually 'logistical sex in the pool house', and then head off to Disneyland like the winning QB of the Super Bowl, but if it were me - I'd be haunted by that declaration she made (and I know you are).

Obviously she seems (from your descriptions, of course) into all of these 'breaches' of the contract, so I am sure you would find it very hard "to insist on the distance" when she is reaching out. I could see that.
I think that's behind the idea of this being a total separation, not one merely separated by a swimming pool.

User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Grifman »

I am agreeing with everyone else - separate and get alone, really, alone to assess things. She's cheating and stringing you along, though presumably not intentionally. It's easy, she gets the benefit of you when she wants it, but can put you aside when she wants that. It will be a lot harder for her when the first option is no longer there, and she will have to face that reality and see if that is what she really wants. You are both making it easier for you both in the short term and harder in the long term. The pool house is too easy, I'm surprised the therapist agreed to that. An apartment somewhere for one of you, or staying with a friend, would have been better. But if not, then you should just stay inside and avoid the pool area totally unless she is gone. As others have noted, there's a reason for the separation, and you are both avoiding it.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
Grifman
Posts: 18692
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Grifman »

Papa Smurph wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:39 am
I’m not going to tell you what to do, I obviously don’t have a clue. I just know that I wasn’t given a chance to make things better. I spent 22 years building a family, and then she tore it down in 2 months, without a second thought. My daughter is trying to take care of ME! I’m the one that is supposed to be a grown man, my JOB is to take care of HER! I’m broken, in ways I never knew possible. I cry at the drop of a hat, several times every day. I struggle to focus on anything. I’m rearranging the house, to rid me of her and the last 22 years. My kids are getting ready for college in a month, and then what I thought was going to be the best time of my life will become the worst time of my life. Instead of enjoying my new-found freedom with my wife, I’m going to be alone. So, whatever you do, don’t end up like me. Ok?
Man, my heart just breaks for you, it really does. I don't know what more I can say, sorry. :cry:
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Smoove_B »

msduncan wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:42 pm
Talking about how this contract sucks and that we can break it if nobody knows.
At the risk of piling on...

If I understand the schedule correctly, you picked up some books on Monday, declared "no contact" on Wednesday morning and then started "logistically" hanging out again on Friday morning? Was that 48 hours total, maybe?

You're posting these updates about "love languages" and whatever else you've managed to glean from these books while barely attempting no-contact and deciding you can both just do whatever you want because no on knows what you're really up to. Are you both even trying here? I mean really. I know people that have been in therapy for 30 years and are still constantly struggling with wellness, but you've apparently managed to wrap this all up after a few books and a journal?

I'm reading what other OOers have posted about their own marriage problems and I'm genuinely distraught at what they're writing and how they're begging you take this seriously.

I can't offer experience-based advice at this point, so I'll just continue to post agreement with those than can and have.

User avatar
The Meal
Posts: 26795
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: 2005 Stanley Cup Champion
the_meal’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by The Meal »

The Meal wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:35 pm
MHS and I separated for a few years (Jan 2009 - August 2011), though we were back to dating after a few months of zero contact. We've been happily living together since. Our situation was not your situation. But two people rowing in the same direction can get back in a boat and have profound happiness. It does take a lot of rowing.
We'd never have made it work again if we didn't have those months of zero contact. But our situation is not your situation. Best luck.

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Blackhawk »

Papa Smurph wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:39 am
I’m not going to tell you what to do, I obviously don’t have a clue. I just know that I wasn’t given a chance to make things better. I spent 22 years building a family, and then she tore it down in 2 months, without a second thought. My daughter is trying to take care of ME! I’m the one that is supposed to be a grown man, my JOB is to take care of HER! I’m broken, in ways I never knew possible. I cry at the drop of a hat, several times every day. I struggle to focus on anything. I’m rearranging the house, to rid me of her and the last 22 years. My kids are getting ready for college in a month, and then what I thought was going to be the best time of my life will become the worst time of my life. Instead of enjoying my new-found freedom with my wife, I’m going to be alone. So, whatever you do, don’t end up like me. Ok?
Papa Smurph, I'm sorry. I know what it's like. I was in the same spot, and I was there for over a year. I don't want to take over MSD's thread, but I will quote what I told him at the beginning of this discussion:
Blackhawk wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:27 pm
...the one thing I've learned from my own divorces (two of them) is that a divorce is still a traumatic loss. It is comparable to a death, and you have to treat it as such. You have to take the time to mourn, and you have to adapt to the idea that when you get past the mourning (which takes time and patience with yourself), you'll be living a slightly different life.
Changing your house from 'ours' to 'yours' is a great start. Make it your own, personal space, with the things you like set up in a way that appeals to you. You likely haven't had much of a chance to do that before (or at least for a long time.) You've had to compromise between what you want, your wife wants, and your kids. No more compromising! You get to figure out what you want, and doing it now is a great way to discover just who you are, and find ways to enjoy the freedom that represents.

And don't be afraid to talk, ask, and vent here (and feel free to kick of a thread just for that!) Above all of that, if you can't get control over the misery, get help. Find a professional to talk to. It helps, a lot.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
naednek
Posts: 9328
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 pm
naednek’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by naednek »

pr0ner wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:17 am
hepcat wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:12 am
dbt1949 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:22 pm
I used to think I understood women.
Now I know better.
I once spent 4 years with a woman I thought I was going to marry decades ago...and she dumped my ass for wearing a baseball cap in a grocery store one day. I kid you not.
Wat?
It was a dodger hat. I'd do the same
hepcat - "I agree with Naednek"

User avatar
dbt1949
Posts: 21768
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:34 am
Location: Hogeye Arkansas

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by dbt1949 »

Dad?
Ye Olde Farte
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949

User avatar
Hrothgar
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:38 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Hrothgar »

Papa Smurph wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:24 am
Oh, MSD, I hope this works out for you. In January, my wife of 22 years asked for a divorce. I requested we seek counseling, and she said no, she was done. A month later, she had moved out to live with her new boyfriend. In a week the divorce will be legally final. It’s been the hardest time of my life. Divorce is hard enough, but my last kid heads to college this fall, and I will suddenly be all alone. I’ve looked forward to empty nesting with this lady for a decade, anticipating how great it will be to finally go on vacations some other month than July (as a simple, stupid example), and instead I’ll be empty nesting solo. Pile Coronavirus on top, and my world is in total upheaval.

I just wanted to say: I understand. You are not alone. Good luck, fight for what is best for you. And seek therapy for yourself.
Wow. I'm terribly sorry to hear that. Believe it or not, I had another friend had the same thing happen to him. It was the winter before their youngest son's graduation. She came back from visiting her mother (who happened to be a lawyer) and dropped the divorce bomb on the family. Suddenly, my friend was in an apartment taking care of his son and trying to get ready for graduation while his world was falling apart. His wife was surprised the kids didn't side with her.

In retrospect, he was able to admit the things he did wrong including withholding affection and neglect, but he wasn't able to work these things out with her because she was already gone. The divorce concluded surprisingly quickly. He got back into motorcycle riding which may or may not have helped. It let him create a new identity for himself.

I'm sorry you're going through this pain. There is hope. There is healing eventually.
Papa Smurph wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:39 am
I’m not going to tell you what to do, I obviously don’t have a clue. I just know that I wasn’t given a chance to make things better. I spent 22 years building a family, and then she tore it down in 2 months, without a second thought. My daughter is trying to take care of ME! I’m the one that is supposed to be a grown man, my JOB is to take care of HER! I’m broken, in ways I never knew possible. I cry at the drop of a hat, several times every day. I struggle to focus on anything. I’m rearranging the house, to rid me of her and the last 22 years. My kids are getting ready for college in a month, and then what I thought was going to be the best time of my life will become the worst time of my life. Instead of enjoying my new-found freedom with my wife, I’m going to be alone. So, whatever you do, don’t end up like me. Ok?
You have nothing to be ashamed of for needing help. Family is there to pick us up when we fall. I'm glad you have that love in your life.

The only advice I have is to remember that forgiveness is not about letting someone off the hook for bad behavior. It's about freeing yourself from past pain so you can move on. Unfortunately, it's usually neither quick nor easy. We're praying for you and your family.

User avatar
Buatha
Posts: 2071
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:16 am
Location: Missouri City, TX

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Buatha »

Blackhawk wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:12 am
Papa Smurph wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:39 am
I’m not going to tell you what to do, I obviously don’t have a clue. I just know that I wasn’t given a chance to make things better. I spent 22 years building a family, and then she tore it down in 2 months, without a second thought. My daughter is trying to take care of ME! I’m the one that is supposed to be a grown man, my JOB is to take care of HER! I’m broken, in ways I never knew possible. I cry at the drop of a hat, several times every day. I struggle to focus on anything. I’m rearranging the house, to rid me of her and the last 22 years. My kids are getting ready for college in a month, and then what I thought was going to be the best time of my life will become the worst time of my life. Instead of enjoying my new-found freedom with my wife, I’m going to be alone. So, whatever you do, don’t end up like me. Ok?
Papa Smurph, I'm sorry. I know what it's like. I was in the same spot, and I was there for over a year. I don't want to take over MSD's thread, but I will quote what I told him at the beginning of this discussion:
Blackhawk wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:27 pm
...the one thing I've learned from my own divorces (two of them) is that a divorce is still a traumatic loss. It is comparable to a death, and you have to treat it as such. You have to take the time to mourn, and you have to adapt to the idea that when you get past the mourning (which takes time and patience with yourself), you'll be living a slightly different life.
Changing your house from 'ours' to 'yours' is a great start. Make it your own, personal space, with the things you like set up in a way that appeals to you. You likely haven't had much of a chance to do that before (or at least for a long time.) You've had to compromise between what you want, your wife wants, and your kids. No more compromising! You get to figure out what you want, and doing it now is a great way to discover just who you are, and find ways to enjoy the freedom that represents.

And don't be afraid to talk, ask, and vent here (and feel free to kick of a thread just for that!) Above all of that, if you can't get control over the misery, get help. Find a professional to talk to. It helps, a lot.
I will second the notion of a therapist. I never believed in therapy, but when the marriage was going downhill, I believe it did help having someone totally separate from friends and family (who are biased toward you).

I don't know you, or msduncan for that matter, but you WILL get better. Will you be the same? Probably not. But, I can always respond to PMs or whatnot.
"Some people say never...I just say no"

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

I'm having a bit of a rough day today guys. No reason. I just woke up and missed her being there. I've been struggling all morning.

The past few days I've been upbeat and stronger. I've been going to the gym. I'm still taking care of business around here without fail. I've been ok. Today? I miss her.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
geezer
Posts: 7360
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Yeeha!

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by geezer »

msduncan wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:43 am
I'm having a bit of a rough day today guys. No reason. I just woke up and missed her being there. I've been struggling all morning.

The past few days I've been upbeat and stronger. I've been going to the gym. I'm still taking care of business around here without fail. I've been ok. Today? I miss her.
That's to be expected, and I know it really, really, sucks. I'm sorry for what you're both going through and I truly hope you're able to not only work through it, but come out the other side a stronger family with better communication.

User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 23610
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by noxiousdog »

I'm skeptical of the 30 day separation but......


If you trust your counselor do what she says.
If you don't trust your counselor get a new one.
My continuing adventures of learning to play piano. - Now Playing Moonlight Sonata

Amazon Kindle Book Loaning Thread

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog

User avatar
Hrothgar
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:38 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Hrothgar »

msduncan wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:43 am
I'm having a bit of a rough day today guys. No reason. I just woke up and missed her being there. I've been struggling all morning.

The past few days I've been upbeat and stronger. I've been going to the gym. I'm still taking care of business around here without fail. I've been ok. Today? I miss her.
That pain is an opportunity for growth. How can you be a better man, father and husband? What do you miss about her? What changes are you willing to make in your life? Have you prayed for her today?

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Blackhawk »

noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:20 pm
If you trust your counselor do what she says.
If you don't trust your counselor get a new one.
This, with the caveat that it doesn't mean shopping around until you get one who just tells you what you want to hear.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Smoove_B »

Blackhawk wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:55 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:20 pm
If you trust your counselor do what she says.
If you don't trust your counselor get a new one.
This, with the caveat that it doesn't mean shopping around until you get one who just tells you what you want to hear.
All true. I think there's possible value in faith-based counseling for specific couples. However at the risk of causing even more of a kerfuffle, I don't think it should be the primary source of therapeutic intervention.

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

We've both failed to keep non-contact. Every day we talk. Many times it's flirty. She has individual counseling tomorrow (told me today).

Anyway... I'm never NOT going to accept contact or flirting with my wife. I'll flirt the next 30 years if that's what she wants. I know... I know.... we are going to consult the counselor about this next week.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 18800
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Unagi »

Why not just let her in the house?

I mean it.

Why not just ask her: "Honey, you obviously don't want to leave, just get back in the house and lets move on with this".


Why not do that? Seriously.

Do you gain some 'feel good' and feel like you are kinda doing something if you kinda do what you were told? I just don't understand why you would only pretend to take a prescription and still buy the medicine, etc. I mean, as an adult, who believed in the illness and the doctor.... Now if you don't think the doctor is right and you don't think you have what he says you have - why are you even pretending to take the medicine?
Last edited by Unagi on Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

Unagi wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:20 pm
Why not just let her in the house.

I mean it.

Why not just ask her: "Honey, you obviously don't want to leave, just get back in the house and lets move on with this".


Why not do that? Seriously.

Do you gain some 'feel good' and feel like you are kinda doing something if you kinda do what you were told? I just don't understand why you would only pretend to take a prescription and still buy the medicine, etc. I mean, as an adult, who believed in the illness and the doctor.... Now if you don't think the doctor is right and you don't think you have what he says you have - why are you even pretending to take the medicine?
Because she wants to be over there. She needs the space and meditation. This is part of the healing of her soul I think. So yes.... we are failing at the no-contact, but I think the safe haven for her over there is healing her to some extent. She seems to like being over there, and she seems to enjoy the banter and flirting, honestly. Our plan to present to the counselor next week is for her to stay there without a time limit and for us to start dating again essentially.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 18800
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Unagi »

Well, that's cool and I wish you both the best of luck.
Sincerely.

She seems to have come a long way from:
Her reasons are that the family didn't help her around the house enough for years until she just reached the breaking point and is emotionally empty. She is done and doesn't care. She would leave this instant if it wasn't for the house we are going to need to sell.
I'm happy you two are both moving on and I assume no longer thinking of selling the house, etc? And it sounds like Disneyland will also be a no-brainer at this point too.

I don't think anyone anticipated such a quick recovery to the story (and I know it's not really over yet).

But, yeah... it sounds like the drama is done for the most part, and the rest of this will just be some fun 'flirting' and 'dating' stuff - which sounds positively amazing.

Congrats. :clap: :dance: :character-koolaid:

User avatar
hitbyambulance
Posts: 7101
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:51 am
Location: Map Ref 47.6°N 122.35°W
Contact:
Battlefinch’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by hitbyambulance »

what if she decides she likes her separate residence and just moves in there

User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 23610
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by noxiousdog »

Blackhawk wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:55 pm
noxiousdog wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:20 pm
If you trust your counselor do what she says.
If you don't trust your counselor get a new one.
This, with the caveat that it doesn't mean shopping around until you get one who just tells you what you want to hear.
Concur.
My continuing adventures of learning to play piano. - Now Playing Moonlight Sonata

Amazon Kindle Book Loaning Thread

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

Unagi wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:34 pm
Well, that's cool and I wish you both the best of luck.
Sincerely.

She seems to have come a long way from:
Her reasons are that the family didn't help her around the house enough for years until she just reached the breaking point and is emotionally empty. She is done and doesn't care. She would leave this instant if it wasn't for the house we are going to need to sell.
I'm happy you two are both moving on and I assume no longer thinking of selling the house, etc? And it sounds like Disneyland will also be a no-brainer at this point too.

I don't think anyone anticipated such a quick recovery to the story (and I know it's not really over yet).

But, yeah... it sounds like the drama is done for the most part, and the rest of this will just be some fun 'flirting' and 'dating' stuff - which sounds positively amazing.

Congrats. :clap: :dance: :character-koolaid:
Well....tap the breaks a little.

- Selling the house has been taken off the table for now.
- She took leaving to go home off the table. She wants the kids to finish school here
- We are both playing the 'flirty neighbor' role, even though we are supposed to not be talking right now.

However -- She has reiterated -- recently -- that I know where she is and that hasn't changed. i.e. "She's done".

We mutually decided that our shot at saving this is for us to reboot. Flirt. I ask her out. We date. We try to spark something. For now she will live over there. Last night she kinda doubled back down on the no-contact until we go for our counseling checkup next Friday. (though she asked me for cream for her coffee this morning because she was out). So despite me making drinks at the pool last night, she came over and got one and then went back over to her place for the night with it. This morning I was outside reading as I always am, and she didn't come out and join me like she did the other day.

So we are by no means recovered. Disney is going to happen and we will be together for a week then. She interacts with my flirting, etc. But she's clearly still emotionally empty and likes the feeling of freedom the pool house gives her.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

It's worth it to say that I've had multiple friends/family tell me that we are more flirty and warm in our current strange relationship status than many many couples they know who are married with no plans to end it or separate. :/
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 23610
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by noxiousdog »

msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:28 am
It's worth it to say that I've had multiple friends/family tell me that we are more flirty and warm in our current strange relationship status than many many couples they know who are married with no plans to end it or separate. :/
As many have said, we are only getting a small picture of what is going on through one lens.

However, please be careful and protect yourself. To me, this sounds like a person going through a mid-life crisis. Not one where it's a short term thing; they work it out of their system, and go on with life, but a serious retrospective to decide the previous 20 years are not going to be the next 20 years.

She isn't the person you used to know. It sounds like she is now independent and knows what she wants. She's willing to live apart from the kids. She knows when she wants your attention and when she doesn't and here's the kicker: she will string you along as long as possible to get what she wants.

Whether you want to continue in that type of relationship is up to you. It can fit your wants and needs, but just be aware and don't let it turn into an abusive situation while you're trying to recreate the past.

To be fair, nearly every breakup I have had as gone that way so it's coming from my perspective and I might be reading myself into the situation.
My continuing adventures of learning to play piano. - Now Playing Moonlight Sonata

Amazon Kindle Book Loaning Thread

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

noxiousdog wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:44 am
msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:28 am
It's worth it to say that I've had multiple friends/family tell me that we are more flirty and warm in our current strange relationship status than many many couples they know who are married with no plans to end it or separate. :/
As many have said, we are only getting a small picture of what is going on through one lens.

However, please be careful and protect yourself. To me, this sounds like a person going through a mid-life crisis. Not one where it's a short term thing; they work it out of their system, and go on with life, but a serious retrospective to decide the previous 20 years are not going to be the next 20 years.

She isn't the person you used to know. It sounds like she is now independent and knows what she wants. She's willing to live apart from the kids. She knows when she wants your attention and when she doesn't and here's the kicker: she will string you along as long as possible to get what she wants.

Whether you want to continue in that type of relationship is up to you. It can fit your wants and needs, but just be aware and don't let it turn into an abusive situation while you're trying to recreate the past.

To be fair, nearly every breakup I have had as gone that way so it's coming from my perspective and I might be reading myself into the situation.
I will say that she won't purposely use me... but I see what you mean. The question is -- can both of our needs be met in this new arrangement for as long as it goes on? I don't know the answer to that yet.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 18800
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Unagi »

msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:26 am
Well....tap the breaks a little.
To be honest, I took the wheel, steered off the road and stepped on the gas so that you would be forced to tell me to tap the breaks and take the wheel yourself.

This all reads weird (her behavior) to me. For her to be this flirtatious as you are describing it and yet she has reiterated -- recently -- that you know where she is and that hasn't changed. i.e. "She's done".

How does that even remotely square up to the picture you paint of the two of you flirting with each other and eager to start 'dating' again.

I mean- I really feel like saying, "Well, which is it?" And yet I know your answer: "It's crazy, but it's both!" Which, you know, being intellectually honest here, can't be entirely true.

It sounds like she is saying "You can try and win me back, but I'm done - and I'm waiting for this to not interfere with the kids as much as it would right now..."

You need to protect yourself here a little more, IMO.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Smoove_B »

Unagi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:51 pm
stuff
Exactly.

Again, I'm interpreting what's being shared but it sounds like this to me:

She's living in your pool house and not doing anything house/childcare/family-life related. You are doing all the laundry, cleanup, cooking, house maintenance, child rearing, etc... and she's "working on herself" in an adjacent living space.

At the same time she's flirting with you via texts or your "random" meetings over coffee and you're not only reciprocating but enjoying the attention because it's all you have at the moment.

From her perspective, how is this not hitting the lottery? She has no household/family obligations and just contacts you for her physical and/or basic emotional needs (validation)? Who wouldn't agree to that - it's easy! However, you're not both 20 years old and dating each other as strangers. You have shared history. You have obligations - to each other, to work and to your kids. Ignoring them all and pretending like you're "starting over" while playing grab-ass around the kitchen counter is folly.

Once more with feeling, please disregard if I'm coming off as harsh but I'm unburdened in my perspective and calling it like I see it (from what's being shared).

User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11796
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by $iljanus »

msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:28 am
It's worth it to say that I've had multiple friends/family tell me that we are more flirty and warm in our current strange relationship status than many many couples they know who are married with no plans to end it or separate. :/
Because you’re in the dating phase when all things are possible, love is in the air, etc.

It’s quite fun but as many of us know, marriage is a little different after the initial early years. I guess you both need to ask if being back in the carefree infatuation years will get at the underlying issues in your marriage or just kick the can down the road. There is something to be said about bringing joy back into a marriage so it’s not all just responsibility and adult obligations but in your councilor mandated process I hope you’re not skipping a few steps.

Regardless, I’m hoping that you both find common ground and come out whole and stronger in the end.
tl;dr

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?

User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 18800
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Unagi »

msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:57 am
I will say that she won't purposely use me...
(not that you are talking about this, specifically here, but...)

I think it's clear that she does not want to punish you over this.

To be brutally honest, I don't take that as a good sign. I mean, it's nice and shows she is a good person... but I think it speaks to her having reached a conclusion.... It sounds like she judged the situation - and doesn't want or need for you to pay for this because she doesn't want the 'repaired' or 'payed for it' version of this at all... she doesn't want you to have to change for her, etc. She just doesn't want 'this'.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by El Guapo »

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:02 pm
Unagi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:51 pm
stuff
Exactly.

Again, I'm interpreting what's being shared but it sounds like this to me:

She's living in your pool house and not doing anything house/childcare/family-life related. You are doing all the laundry, cleanup, cooking, house maintenance, child rearing, etc... and she's "working on herself" in an adjacent living space.

At the same time she's flirting with you via texts or your "random" meetings over coffee and you're not only reciprocating but enjoying the attention because it's all you have at the moment.

From her perspective, how is this not hitting the lottery? She has no household/family obligations and just contacts you for her physical and/or basic emotional needs (validation)? Who wouldn't agree to that - it's easy! However, you're not both 20 years old and dating each other as strangers. You have shared history. You have obligations - to each other, to work and to your kids. Ignoring them all and pretending like you're "starting over" while playing grab-ass around the kitchen counter is folly.

Once more with feeling, please disregard if I'm coming off as harsh but I'm unburdened in my perspective and calling it like I see it (from what's being shared).
Yeah, this seems right to me. I really think you do need to do the 30 day separation. If that's not possible while she's in the pool house, she should find an Air BNB for 30 days or something. She's firm in that she still wants out. A big part of the separation is to force her (and to a lesser extent you) to confront what that would really look like in practice, before any steps are taken to make the separation permanent. A situation where she gets the upsides of separation but not the downsides isn't going to move the ball any.

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

I get what you guys are saying. I really do. But for now what choice do I have? I can either give her time and space and hope she sorts this out internally and we can forge a new path with new boundaries and dynamics together, or I walk away from 22 years of marriage.

Everyone that knows us both is telling me to give it time before doing anything totally rash.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 47851
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am
daehawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Daehawk »

Im sorry Ive not posted in this thread. Ive not ignored it. In fact I check it each day. Its just way beyond my scope and experience and I am not good at these things anyways. But I didn't want it to seem I was ignoring you either. You're a good guy MS and Im very sorry this is happening to you. I hope the best for you.
https://www.gofundme.com/please-help-di ... -wife-died ....Help for me to take care of stuff . Wife died Jan 3 2019 after 31 years. My soulmate.
---------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
GroovAtroN, stop asking
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Smoove_B »

msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:39 pm
I get what you guys are saying. I really do. But for now what choice do I have? I can either give her time and space and hope she sorts this out internally and we can forge a new path with new boundaries and dynamics together, or I walk away from 22 years of marriage.
But you're not giving her the *minimum* that was suggested by your counselor - 30 days of no contact.

I also agree with Unagi's point regarding anger/punishment. If you truly have a "dead" relationship that's definitely worse for the long term. Meaning, there's no anger, there's no vengeance or a need to "punish" - there's nothing. Trying to "re-kindle" interest then (which is what this sounds like) while completely ignoring the history between you (and whatever core issues precipitated this situation) is creating a new foundation on sand.

The choice you have is this: she said she wants out - you give her out. You stop flirting. You stop "accidentally meeting" at random points around the house or in the yard or near the garbage containers out back. Your posts here kinda come off as desperate for whatever you have with her to not end that you're willing to deal with this new arrangement - which (quite frankly) as you've described seems unhealthy (for you both).

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:52 pm
msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:39 pm
I get what you guys are saying. I really do. But for now what choice do I have? I can either give her time and space and hope she sorts this out internally and we can forge a new path with new boundaries and dynamics together, or I walk away from 22 years of marriage.
But you're not giving her the *minimum* that was suggested by your counselor - 30 days of no contact.

I also agree with Unagi's point regarding anger/punishment. If you truly have a "dead" relationship that's definitely worse for the long term. Meaning, there's no anger, there's no vengeance or a need to "punish" - there's nothing. Trying to "re-kindle" interest then (which is what this sounds like) while completely ignoring the history between you (and whatever core issues precipitated this situation) is creating a new foundation on sand.

The choice you have is this: she said she wants out - you give her out. You stop flirting. You stop "accidentally meeting" at random points around the house or in the yard or near the garbage containers out back. Your posts here kinda come off as desperate for whatever you have with her to not end that you're willing to deal with this new arrangement - which (quite frankly) as you've described seems unhealthy (for you both).
Let me clarify: An equal amount of the contact has been her and not me. I'm not walking around here trying to bump into her constantly.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 42782
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Smoove_B »

Right - because she gains all the benefits of causal "accidental contact" and doesn't have to deal with everything else associated with being in a marriage. And faced with the reality of her actually divorcing you and you being alone you're not discouraging it. It's an emotionally manipulative loop you're both in.

Going all the way back to the beginning - no contact means no contact. I get there are logistical things you need to arrange (most likely around paying bill or issues with your kids). But casually interacting with one another? Sending flirty texts? You're both sabotaging what should be happening right now, imho.

User avatar
msduncan
Posts: 14384
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by msduncan »

Smoove_B wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:01 pm
Right - because she gains all the benefits of causal "accidental contact" and doesn't have to deal with everything else associated with being in a marriage. And faced with the reality of her actually divorcing you and you being alone you're not discouraging it. It's an emotionally manipulative loop you're both in.

Going all the way back to the beginning - no contact means no contact. I get there are logistical things you need to arrange (most likely around paying bill or issues with your kids). But casually interacting with one another? Sending flirty texts? You're both sabotaging what should be happening right now, imho.
Ok...well we both are trying to regroup today and hammer down on the no contact. We have a week and a day before the check in. She has her individual counseling appointment today (she made the appointment -- on her own)....and she's likely going to spit fire and anger out again so I really don't want to bump into her after that. lol

The counselor allows us church on Sunday -- so that's when I'll see her next.
It's 109 first team All-Americans.
It's a college football record 61 bowl appearances.
It's 34 bowl victories.
It's 24 Southeastern Conference Championships.
It's 15 National Championships.

At some places they play football. At Alabama we live it.

User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 35093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by El Guapo »

msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:39 pm
I get what you guys are saying. I really do. But for now what choice do I have? I can either give her time and space and hope she sorts this out internally and we can forge a new path with new boundaries and dynamics together, or I walk away from 22 years of marriage.

Everyone that knows us both is telling me to give it time before doing anything totally rash.
The point of the separation is to give her the time and space. And on top of that, she's very familiar with what she's upset about that she wants to get away from. The separation would hopefully make her really confront what she would be giving up to get away from what she's unhappy about.

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 29289
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana
Contact:
Blackhawk’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Blackhawk »

This one is awkward. I hope I don't piss you off.
msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:39 pm
Everyone that knows us both is telling me to give it time before doing anything totally rash.
MSD, I don't know you. I don't know your wife. I don't know your beliefs. I don't know your family. I'm an outside observer. What I'm saying or asking is meant as food for thought, and does not necessitate an answer. It is thoughts that have occurred to me while reading as an outside, barely-informed reader.

You've got a faith based counselor. Does your faith have strong positions on marriage vs divorce? The people that know you both and are giving you advice, are they also tied to your faith? If so, is it possible that you're getting advice on a tough situation from sources with a strong interest in a particular outcome? Even if that outcome may not, from other perspectives, be the best one? If any of this rings true, consider that you may not be getting truly neutral advice, and you may be leaving yourself blind spots.
msduncan wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:39 pm
I get what you guys are saying. I really do. But for now what choice do I have?
You can...
Unagi wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:51 pm
You need to protect yourself here a little more, IMO.
That's what you can do. Try to save your marriage, but don't put all of your eggs in that particular basket. Start making contingency plans.

Take the time to consider: If things do end, what do you need to have in place to handle the divorce, both from an emotional and from a practical/legal standpoint?

Take the time to consider: If things do end, how do you see your life? Not the 'everything sucks' phase, but the 'moving on' phase that comes after the mourning. What do you want to do that you'll be able to pursue? What do you want to be if it isn't 'husband?'

Don't be caught flatfooted. Have alternate plans in place in case your first choice falls through.
________________________________________
A last hope

User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 66134
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:
Isgrimnur’s avatar
Loading…

Re: Never thought I'd be typing this

Post by Isgrimnur »

Treat it like a civil emergency in the forecase. But without buying a new truck.

Post Reply