Octopus Overlords

pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:05 am

Jeff V wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 pm And that wasn't too long.

That's because the average game was played 40 minutes faster in the 70s than it is today.

Still, if a game is 3 hours today and 2:20 a half-century ago, the 4:40 (plus the hour or so between games) didn't seem too long. Of course in those days, you could get walk-up tickets to the bleachers at Wrigley for $2, and sometimes be able to count the fans in the stands before the 4th inning. As expenses went up it became more imperative to harvest $$$ from increasingly more casual (and fickle) fans. So in an effort to appeal to people who trend towards the "non-fans" spectrum they are messing with the on-field product and that doesn't leave a favorable impression with the more rabid fans.

So the MLB is going to a semi-bubble with the NL playoffs and the World Series in Texas, and the AL playoffs in So Ca. I love Petco Park in San Diego.

Rob Manfred says that the 16-team playoff format may be here to stay, saying an "overwhelming majority" of owners supported the idea before the pandemic.

Of course they would. A 16-team playoff after a 162 game season is a horrible idea that allows owners to not have to spend money to really make their teams elite.

And more tv revenues.

Have I mentioned that ratings for baseball are down?

6 innings, so everybody is guaranteed to bat twice. And this is a pretty good length for the starter to go the whole game.

Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

hard limit on substitutions per game (similar to timeouts in football). make each player swap out more meaningful, if you really want to bring in that lefty, then you might not be able to bring in a pinch runner later.

stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:27 pm Have I mentioned that ratings for baseball are down?

Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:43 pm 6 innings, so everybody is guaranteed to bat twice. And this is a pretty good length for the starter to go the whole game.

Ugh. I already hate the 7 innings for double headers - it just feels wrong.

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

Jaymon wrote:hard limit on substitutions per game (similar to timeouts in football). make each player swap out more meaningful, if you really want to bring in that lefty, then you might not be able to bring in a pinch runner later.

This is a solution in search of a problem. Other than mid-inning pitching changes, most substitutions take little to no time. A pinch hitter walks to the plate at generally the same rate as the regular hitter. A pinch runner takes 20-30 seconds to get out there (and doesn't happen very often to begin with, meaning it will have no meaningful impact on average game time). A between-innings pitching replacement takes the same amount of time as leaving in the old pitcher. If you put a hard cap on mid-inning pitching changes, you run the risk of having to keep a pitcher out there too long and damage his arm.

Add in that all of these changes will likely lead ownership to (rightly) claim they need fewer players, and these proposals would be DOA with the union.

The real issue with MLB pace of play is the amount of time wasted between pitches. A pitch clock would help with this. Forcing batters to stay in the batter's box and getting them to dump their routines of adjusting their batting gloves or making sure their cup is in just the right place would help with this.

I think forcing El Guapo to stay up til 3AM during the WS for an 18 inning game is ridiculous and certainly doesn't encourage new fans. I'm totally in favor of putting a man on 2nd after the 9th inning.

Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:40 pm I think forcing El Guapo to stay up til 3AM during the WS for an 18 inning game is ridiculous and certainly doesn't encourage new fans. I'm totally in favor of putting a man on 2nd after the 9th inning.

I liked the idea of adding the extra runner after the 12th inning. Keeps the game true to its origins for the most part, but acknowledges bedtimes as we move on. I haven't enjoyed watching the extra runner so far, but I can see it eventually.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:51 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:40 pm I think forcing El Guapo to stay up til 3AM during the WS for an 18 inning game is ridiculous and certainly doesn't encourage new fans. I'm totally in favor of putting a man on 2nd after the 9th inning.

I liked the idea of adding the extra runner after the 12th inning. Keeps the game true to its origins for the most part, but acknowledges bedtimes as we move on. I haven't enjoyed watching the extra runner so far, but I can see it eventually.

I have grown to like it. It's all about execution, if you can't move the runner over and get a sac fly, you don't really deserve to win.

Jaymon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:43 pm 6 innings, so everybody is guaranteed to bat twice. And this is a pretty good length for the starter to go the whole game.

Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

hard limit on substitutions per game (similar to timeouts in football). make each player swap out more meaningful, if you really want to bring in that lefty, then you might not be able to bring in a pinch runner later.

I'm onboard with the first 3. The subs would be tougher. I guess you could base that on soccer as well, but it would take some getting used to knowing your pitcher would have to be perfect from there on out to win. But in a 6-inning game, probably not a lot of risk at running out of subs.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

NHL seems to have no problem with it.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

NHL seems to have no problem with it.

NHL games are much shorter and have ties ingrained in their culture.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

NHL seems to have no problem with it.

NHL games are much shorter and have ties ingrained in their culture.

Culture can be changed. And shorter is the goal.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

NHL seems to have no problem with it.

NHL games are much shorter and have ties ingrained in their culture.

Culture can be changed. And shorter is the goal.

You're right, and I completely forgot that the culture in the NHL did change - they eliminated the tie. Standings are now W-L-SOL (shoot-out loss). So even in a sport traditionally tolerant of ties they were unpopular enough to eliminate them.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

NHL seems to have no problem with it.

NHL games are much shorter and have ties ingrained in their culture.

Culture can be changed. And shorter is the goal.

6-inning games will never be a viable way to get shorter games in MLB.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:49 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm

Jaymon wrote:Ties are allowed, just like soccer. with SO MANY GAMES per season, it should not be hard to figure the math to see who is in the lead.
The only time you would need extra innings as tiebreakers is during playoffs, and then they would mean something special.

I don't think the problem is the handful of games that go into extras. People are worried that the games themselves go too long. One of the beautiful oddities of baseball is the random 19 inning game once or twice a year. Plus, if you go to six innings you're likely to have more ties (less time for the teams to differentiate themselves), and if you stick to nine innings you're going to get people frustrated that they just watched three hours to kiss their sisters. There's a reason everyone gets up in arms every time an NFL game ends in a tie and why the college game eliminated ties.

NHL seems to have no problem with it.

NHL games are much shorter and have ties ingrained in their culture.

Culture can be changed. And shorter is the goal.

6-inning games will never be a viable way teo get shorter games in MLB.

Not with that attitude they won't.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm NHL games are much shorter and have ties ingrained in their culture.

NHL games are at least 60 minutes of action spread out over an average of 2 1/2 hours. Baseball games seem much worse because it's about 6 minutes of action spread out over 3 hours.

5 inning games, after the 3rd inning all at-bats start with a 1-1 count. Lineup reduced to 5 batters so they all get 3 at-bats minimum. Fielders remain 9. No DH. For homeruns hit over the fence or otherwise ruled a home run by umps, all base runners including the batter will proceed directly to their dugout. Rounding the bases is not required nor is it allowed.



3rd inning stretch will not include "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" due to excessive length. Instead, the chorus of "Gonna Make You Sweat (Everybody Dance Now)" by C+C Music Factory will be played twice.

Some math/geometry person want to explain this?

Running a straight line is the shortest distance around the bases. Why do baserunners stand well back of the direct line between bases?

Ross: Researchers at Williams College have determined that a batter or runner is wise to take a curved path which is 20% faster than going on a straight line. On an inside-the-park home run, the difference is 16.7 seconds compared to 22.

I'm kind of impressed that the Mets sucked so much in this short season that they can't even make an expanded playoff system. On the bright side this may be the last season of the Wilpons in charge. Unless the owners block the sale which they probably will because Mets.

Lorini wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:13 am Some math/geometry person want to explain this?

Running a straight line is the shortest distance around the bases. Why do baserunners stand well back of the direct line between bases?

Ross: Researchers at Williams College have determined that a batter or runner is wise to take a curved path which is 20% faster than going on a straight line. On an inside-the-park home run, the difference is 16.7 seconds compared to 22.

I'm not a math/geometry person, but doesn't this boil down a player's (in)ability to make a 90 degree turn without losing momentum? Fastest path between bases is a straight line, but if you're trying to run multiple bases, you're better off taking an angle which means you won't go in a straight line.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:18 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:13 am Some math/geometry person want to explain this?

Running a straight line is the shortest distance around the bases. Why do baserunners stand well back of the direct line between bases?

Ross: Researchers at Williams College have determined that a batter or runner is wise to take a curved path which is 20% faster than going on a straight line. On an inside-the-park home run, the difference is 16.7 seconds compared to 22.

I'm not a math/geometry person, but doesn't this boil down a player's (in)ability to make a 90 degree turn without losing momentum? Fastest path between bases is a straight line, but if you're trying to run multiple bases, you're better off taking an angle which means you won't go in a straight line.

Yes, that's it. And in Lorini's quote I assume they're talking about base runners taking a lead not on the direct line but back a bit. This angles their approach on anbetter path towards the second bag, after hitting the next one.

Standing on the direct line between first and second aims towards left field after passing second. Standing back a bit points you closer towards 3rd.

Same between 2nd and 3rd. You get a little better path towards home being back a few feet. Makes the required turn less sharp.

Would be interesting to see if they shade more towards the direct line on potential double plays.

Thanks folks, now I understand. I was just thinking of running from home to first without the possibility of multiple bases. Must be interesting when you have to decide if you can leg out a double or not.

Lorini wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:31 am Thanks folks, now I understand. I was just thinking of running from home to first without the possibility of multiple bases. Must be interesting when you have to decide if you can leg out a double or not.

On close plays at first they'll run a straight path from home to first and will run through the bag directly towards the RF corner.

On deep flys or gappers they will take take the wide arc.

We've all seen it but don't always think about it.

Additionally a player on third will typically take a lead in foul territory rather than on the straight line because if a batted ball hits him in fair territory he is out. They don't tend to go too far into foul territory, though.

Another insane final day of the regular season, with 4 teams vying for the last 2 NL wildcard spots. On the one hand I would love to see the Padres eliminate Frisco, but the idea of a Giants - Dodgers first round matchup is also intriguing.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:38 pm Another insane final day of the regular season, with 4 teams vying for the last 2 NL wildcard spots. On the one hand I would love to see the Padres eliminate Frisco, but the idea of a Giants - Dodgers first round matchup is also intriguing.

Giants suck too much to be in the playoffs

Lorini wrote:

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:38 pm Another insane final day of the regular season, with 4 teams vying for the last 2 NL wildcard spots. On the one hand I would love to see the Padres eliminate Frisco, but the idea of a Giants - Dodgers first round matchup is also intriguing.

Giants suck too much to be in the playoffs

Hey enjoy watching your team while you can, October is coming!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Lorini wrote:

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:38 pm Another insane final day of the regular season, with 4 teams vying for the last 2 NL wildcard spots. On the one hand I would love to see the Padres eliminate Frisco, but the idea of a Giants - Dodgers first round matchup is also intriguing.

Giants suck too much to be in the playoffs

I love October

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

naednek wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:32 pm

Lorini wrote:

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:38 pm Another insane final day of the regular season, with 4 teams vying for the last 2 NL wildcard spots. On the one hand I would love to see the Padres eliminate Frisco, but the idea of a Giants - Dodgers first round matchup is also intriguing.

Giants suck too much to be in the playoffs

Hey enjoy watching your team while you can, October is coming!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

As long as I'm not watching yours it's all good!!!!

Well that was a BS way to end the season. Oh well, onto October CHOKE Fest

How do you think the Brewers feel?

naednek wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:30 pm Well that was a BS way to end the season. Oh well, onto October CHOKE Fest

You know what? I agree with you. Roberts will put Kershaw in so he can give up home runs, I’m sure of it.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 pm Additionally a player on third will typically take a lead in foul territory rather than on the straight line because if a batted ball hits him in fair territory he is out. They don't tend to go too far into foul territory, though.

Is this the stated reason? I always assumed it was because the player's cleats are going to get better traction starting on grass.

Biyobi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:14 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 pm Additionally a player on third will typically take a lead in foul territory rather than on the straight line because if a batted ball hits him in fair territory he is out. They don't tend to go too far into foul territory, though.

Is this the stated reason? I always assumed it was because the player's cleats are going to get better traction starting on grass.

That's what I was always taught in little league, and I always unquestioningly believe things I was told as a child.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:48 am

Biyobi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:14 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 pm Additionally a player on third will typically take a lead in foul territory rather than on the straight line because if a batted ball hits him in fair territory he is out. They don't tend to go too far into foul territory, though.

Is this the stated reason? I always assumed it was because the player's cleats are going to get better traction starting on grass.

That's what I was always taught in little league, and I always unquestioningly believe things I was told as a child.

I think it's the interference thing. It is the hot corner after all.
Getting all the way over to the grass to get a better push off seems a bit extreme. These aren't olympic sprinters. They're lumbering baseball players.

Why does it always have to be the fuking Cardinals? Oh well, at least the Padres look like the better team on paper. On paper.

Here's hoping the Twins take out the Houston Bastros.