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MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Lorini
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by Lorini »

Turner testing positive for Covid just makes it a 2020 World Series, doesn't it? Crazy, he's the one who was telling everyone to follow the protocols and then he gets it on the day they win the Series.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by El Guapo »

Lorini wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:08 am Turner testing positive for Covid just makes it a 2020 World Series, doesn't it? Crazy, he's the one who was telling everyone to follow the protocols and then he gets it on the day they win the Series.
I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't rush to get his test results.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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I can still hear fireworks across city. :horse:
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Congrats Lorini and Dodgers fans!
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Turner was out on the field celebrating after his positive test results came back.
Rosenthal reported that Turner was “told not to go on the field, or asked not to go on the field.” But, Rosenthal continued, “he insisted upon it, the Dodgers insisted upon it, and that is why he was out there.” Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman told the New York Daily News’ Bradford William Davis, “He wanted to be on the field and take a picture with the trophy … I don’t think there was anyone that was going to stop him from going out.”
Ummm, pretty sure you're the one who should be ensuring that he doesn't go out, Andrew.

What an idiot. I know they're outside, but still...positive case.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I'm sure they would all agree to the risk but that's not the point. MLB need to fine him and the team as a slap on the wrist.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Honestly, I don't blame Turner as much as I do the Dodgers organization. Obviously Turner wants to be on the field celebrating with his teammates, and it would suck to a degree that I'm sure I can't fully understand to not be able to do that. Which is why cooler heads in the organization needed to step in.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:15 am Honestly, I don't blame Turner as much as I do the Dodgers organization. Obviously Turner wants to be on the field celebrating with his teammates, and it would suck to a degree that I'm sure I can't fully understand to not be able to do that. Which is why cooler heads in the organization needed to step in.
Given that it's possibly a once in a lifetime thing, I'm sure the organization top to bottom figured it's better to ask for forgiveness.
And in the the moment, not sure I can blame rhem.

But that's why the league needs to fine them.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by naednek »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:15 am Honestly, I don't blame Turner as much as I do the Dodgers organization. Obviously Turner wants to be on the field celebrating with his teammates, and it would suck to a degree that I'm sure I can't fully understand to not be able to do that. Which is why cooler heads in the organization needed to step in.
Given that it's possibly a once in a lifetime thing, I'm sure the organization top to bottom figured it's better to ask for forgiveness.
And in the the moment, not sure I can blame rhem.

But that's why the league needs to fine them.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

naednek wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:32 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:15 am Honestly, I don't blame Turner as much as I do the Dodgers organization. Obviously Turner wants to be on the field celebrating with his teammates, and it would suck to a degree that I'm sure I can't fully understand to not be able to do that. Which is why cooler heads in the organization needed to step in.
Given that it's possibly a once in a lifetime thing, I'm sure the organization top to bottom figured it's better to ask for forgiveness.
And in the the moment, not sure I can blame rhem.

But that's why the league needs to fine them.
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That's a bit strong. Maybe just make the asterisk a bit bigger.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by Lorini »

Folks realize that Turner had already been in contact with those on the field before the disclosure of the test results, meaning that those people had already been exposed to him, possibly for quite some time even. Keep in mind that they'd all been quarantining with family during the playoffs. So what was done was done by last night. I was upset at first too, but after listening to Friedman I understood better. Now whether or not every single person on the field had been in contact with Turner over time I don't know.

The Dodgers are stuck in Texas until this gets resolved.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Congrats to the Dodgers. Excellent team for many years now. They deserve a title.

I really miss the early 80s Dodger's/Astros rivalry.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by Lorini »

OK so MLB tested every other day for Covid. Since Monday was an off day, they may have not been tested since Saturday, I'm sure we'll find out more soon. That would mean that he'd have exposed the team to Covid on Sunday and certainly yesterday. A good question was raised about the inconclusive test, was it protocol that a player could keep playing after the inconclusive test (second inning last night)? Or was an exception made? If an exception was made, that was unacceptable. We'll have to see how this develops.

Edit: Once the game was over, Turner was a free agent, no longer under the control of the Dodgers. Manfred was there, he could have done something if something was to be done.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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MLB almost certainly could have prevented him from taking the field for the celebration and should have. While the positive test and pulling him so late was always going to be an issue, having him out there for the celebration is now dominating the discussion instead of what the Dodgers accomplished.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:41 am MLB almost certainly could have prevented him from taking the field for the celebration and should have. While the positive test and pulling him so late was always going to be an issue, having him out there for the celebration is now dominating the discussion instead of what the Dodgers accomplished.
Yup. And MLB told him not to go on the field, so I don't see any way around significant fines for Turner and the Dodgers.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:54 am
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:41 am MLB almost certainly could have prevented him from taking the field for the celebration and should have. While the positive test and pulling him so late was always going to be an issue, having him out there for the celebration is now dominating the discussion instead of what the Dodgers accomplished.
Yup. And MLB told him not to go on the field, so I don't see any way around significant fines for Turner and the Dodgers.
The Dodgers can't be fined for that El Guapo. The Dodgers may have even tried to stop him, we don't know. Turner was not under their control at that time. This is on Manfred. NO, I don't support anyone exposing anyone else to Covid!!!! Not the Dodgers, Lakers, or any other sports team EVER. But if Turner isn't under their control, what are they supposed to do?

And MLB is in charge of the testing and the protocol. I don't know the protocol if a player's testing is inconclusive. If it's to let them continue to play, then that was fine. If some exception was made while Manfred was there, that's on Manfred.

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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Lorini wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:57 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:54 am
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:41 am MLB almost certainly could have prevented him from taking the field for the celebration and should have. While the positive test and pulling him so late was always going to be an issue, having him out there for the celebration is now dominating the discussion instead of what the Dodgers accomplished.
Yup. And MLB told him not to go on the field, so I don't see any way around significant fines for Turner and the Dodgers.
The Dodgers can't be fined for that El Guapo. The Dodgers may have even tried to stop him, we don't know. Turner was not under their control at that time. This is on Manfred. NO, I don't support anyone exposing anyone else to Covid!!!! Not the Dodgers, Lakers, or any other sports team EVER. But if Turner isn't under their control, what are they supposed to do?

And MLB is in charge of the testing and the protocol. I don't know the protocol if a player's testing is inconclusive. If it's to let them continue to play, then that was fine. If some exception was made while Manfred was there, that's on Manfred.

Respectfully,

Lorini
Rosenthal reported that Turner was told not to go on the field, but that Turner and the Dodgers insisted upon it.
I guess it's possible that MLB blessed that after the Dodgers pressed, but it doesn't sound like it.

And of course the Dodgers can control him. It's obviously within their power to discipline a player for violating conduct rules, COVID protocols, etc. They just didn't want to, which is understandable here, but doesn't mean that they're powerless.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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I guess it would come down to who permitted it. Friedman said he didn't permit it and as he's head honcho for the Dodgers on the field, it seems odd that 'the Dodgers' insisted on it. I'm 1000% sure the players would insist on it, but they don't speak for the team. We'll find out more I'm sure as the days go on.

El Guapo, the Dodgers cannot fine a player they don't control. I mean c'mon. So they could fine a free agent? They can't do that, you know that.

A tiny bit less respect :),

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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Lorini wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:05 pm I guess it would come down to who permitted it. Friedman said he didn't permit it and as he's head honcho for the Dodgers on the field, it seems odd that 'the Dodgers' insisted on it. I'm 1000% sure the players would insist on it, but they don't speak for the team. We'll find out more I'm sure as the days go on.

El Guapo, the Dodgers cannot fine a player they don't control. I mean c'mon. So they could fine a free agent? They can't do that, you know that.

A tiny bit less respect :),

Lorini
Is Turner a free agent? I suppose if he wasn't a Dodger anymore then they couldn't, but that seems unlikely that he was no longer a Dodger as of the final out. But Friedman is quoted as saying "He wanted to be on the field and take a picture with the trophy … I don’t think there was anyone that was going to stop him from going out.” Which is a little different from Rosenthal saying (based on whatever his sources are) that the Dodgers "insisted" on it, but it is Friedman saying that they weren't inclined to stop him.

Anyway, my reading of it is that Turner was told by MLB not to go out on the field, that he did so, and that the Dodgers at a minimum declined to tell him not to. If that's not the case, then that changes things (like, it would matter if Turner pushed for it and some MLB official reluctantly said fine). But if it is...hard to see how that doesn't generate a fine.

I get that it's a bummer to be talking about fines right after a World Series title but..... we are in a pandemic and whatnot. There's a lot of scrutiny any time we have real time footage of someone's actions when we know that they know that they have COVID.

And for what it's worth, I was rooting for the Dodgers and was really happy to see them win. As was my 8 YO son, who loves Mookie Betts (as do I, I suppose).
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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I'm wrong, he's a free agent today. That still means they have little power over him yes? And since MLB was there, I'd still argue that it was on MLB to tell Turner and the Dodger facility staff that he was not to be allowed out onto the field. It would not surprise me at all if the MLBPA filed a grievance over how MLB handled this.

Yeah, we could talk about the game :) but I 1000% understand why people are talking about the possible Covid exposure.

So the other big question was should they have pulled Snell. To me, the problem was that Snell had a 1 run lead. The chances of him or the Rays being able to hold a 1-0 lead throughout the game was slim to none. As was pointed out, analytics (not money!) got the Rays to where they were and they weren't going to change gears last night. So I think I would have pulled him as well given the Dodger hitters. He had so little room for error that one hit and then the next Dodger hitting a home run and the game is over. So why change the process at that point? It's the same thing when people booed Roberts taking Kershaw out. I thought the booers were nuts. What we as fans don't want is for Kershaw to be left in too long and lose the game. Same with Snell. If he leaves him in there and Snell gives up the big home run, then we all know it's 'why didn't you take him out earlier like you always do', so Cash was in a no win situation there.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Typical 2020, even takes the fun out of mocking.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:41 am MLB almost certainly could have prevented him from taking the field for the celebration and should have. While the positive test and pulling him so late was always going to be an issue, having him out there for the celebration is now dominating the discussion instead of what the Dodgers accomplished.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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pr0ner wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:17 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:41 am MLB almost certainly could have prevented him from taking the field for the celebration and should have. While the positive test and pulling him so late was always going to be an issue, having him out there for the celebration is now dominating the discussion instead of what the Dodgers accomplished.
Right, so MLB security didn't do their jobs of keeping Turner off the field.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Lorini wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:48 am Folks realize that Turner had already been in contact with those on the field before the disclosure of the test results, meaning that those people had already been exposed to him, possibly for quite some time even. Keep in mind that they'd all been quarantining with family during the playoffs. So what was done was done by last night. I was upset at first too, but after listening to Friedman I understood better. Now whether or not every single person on the field had been in contact with Turner over time I don't know.

The Dodgers are stuck in Texas until this gets resolved.
That would suck for the players of both teams probably. After being in the bubble they were probably ready to get home.

But yea, he had probably already exposed everyone on the Dodgers and some of the Rays, so going out on the field sounds worse than it actually was.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Wonder if they'll ban Turner for next season? That could be the end of his career, he's already 34.

I also think the least he could do is grant an interview and own up to what he did.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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A season ban seems excessive. I would assume a fine - maybe a suspension of a few games.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:06 pm A season ban seems excessive. I would assume a fine - maybe a suspension of a few games.
I think that's why they are going to the MLBPA. A mere fine/suspension wouldn't warrant the involvement of the players' union.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Lorini wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:01 am
El Guapo wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:06 pm A season ban seems excessive. I would assume a fine - maybe a suspension of a few games.
I think that's why they are going to the MLBPA. A mere fine/suspension wouldn't warrant the involvement of the players' union.
The MLBPA is involved in every suspension and fine appeal, aren't they? And pretty much every suspension is appealed.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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If they are, it's never mentioned.

We'll see what's going to happen. We know something's going to happen though, he's not going to walk away from willfully exposing a ton of people to a deadly disease, especially as he was told specifically not to.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Great assessment of the season from ESPN

I don't think anyone was 100% sure they'd make it to the World Series, but MLB did. One thing that sticks in my head is the number of base running blunders (for which there stupidly isn't any MLB stat for) that occurred during the playoffs. Players just ran themselves into outs!! When you see your team doing this, let your team know through Twitter or email or whatever. There is no excuse for that and there's no easier way to lose a ball game. The Rays ran into one out that I saw (player went from third and was out at home after an infield it) and the Dodger players never do it. I do wonder how many relief pitchers we would have seen without the new rules, it would have been an unending parade and I'm pretty sure the reliever rules are here to stay.

It was great having all those playoff games on at the same time at the start of the month, no such thing as too much baseball for me (except when my other teams are in the playoffs!). I don't know how I feel about division winners getting no advantages but hey if they are division winners they shouldn't have much issue with wild card games, yes?

As we look forward to a new (maybe full this time) season, I do want to thanks you folks for contributing to the thread. I didn't talk as much as I wanted because my team was favored from first pitch and I didn't want to sound elitist. But others chimed in and that helped keep the thread going. Not to end the thread per se, but I'm looking forward to off season discussion and spring training.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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White Sox hire Tony La Russa. :shock: Isn't it just possible the game has passed him by?
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:26 pm Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
It is a good question, as well as why when there are so many young up and coming people who can coach an MLB team that the White Sox would hire La Russa.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:26 pm Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
Because many teams were doing it and those two just had the misfortune of getting caught - so front offices view them much differently than fan.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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stessier wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:02 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:26 pm Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
Because many teams were doing it and those two just had the misfortune of getting caught - so front offices view them much differently than fan.
No, no. I was assured this was the worst scandal in the history of modern baseball. Even the players were outraged, so I'm sure they'll boycott instead of playing for the cheaters.

edit: in all seriousness, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for Luhnow to get another look. He's pretty sketchy even if he's good at his job.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:08 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:02 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:26 pm Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
Because many teams were doing it and those two just had the misfortune of getting caught - so front offices view them much differently than fan.
No, no. I was assured this was the worst scandal in the history of modern baseball. Even the players were outraged, so I'm sure they'll boycott instead of playing for the cheaters.
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by El Guapo »

noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:08 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:02 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:26 pm Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
Because many teams were doing it and those two just had the misfortune of getting caught - so front offices view them much differently than fan.
No, no. I was assured this was the worst scandal in the history of modern baseball. Even the players were outraged, so I'm sure they'll boycott instead of playing for the cheaters.
This is one thing that I have been wondering about. My understanding prior to the Astros scandal was that sign stealing was something that every team did to some degree, and that there was some vague grey line that one was not supposed to cross. The reaction seems like the Astros scandal is well across that line. I also assume that if the Astros had a good "everyone is doing it" type argument that they would have made that argument?
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:39 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:08 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:02 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:26 pm Can someone explain why anyone would hire cheaters like Hinch and Cora?
Because many teams were doing it and those two just had the misfortune of getting caught - so front offices view them much differently than fan.
No, no. I was assured this was the worst scandal in the history of modern baseball. Even the players were outraged, so I'm sure they'll boycott instead of playing for the cheaters.
This is one thing that I have been wondering about. My understanding prior to the Astros scandal was that sign stealing was something that every team did to some degree, and that there was some vague grey line that one was not supposed to cross. The reaction seems like the Astros scandal is well across that line. I also assume that if the Astros had a good "everyone is doing it" type argument that they would have made that argument?
The Commish shut all those avenues down and said no one else was doing it - stop looking behind the curtain.
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Lorini
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

Post by Lorini »

Are we talking about stealing signs from second base or something else?
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Lorini
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Re: MLB 2020: We never imagined a season like this!!!

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Turner walks.
Manfred's statement also said Turner believed he received permission from at least one Dodgers employee and that an unidentified person incorrectly told him other teammates had tested positive, "creating the impression in Mr. Turner's mind that he was being singled out for isolation."
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"I assumed by that point that few people were left on the field," Turner wrote. "I was under the impression that team officials did not object to my returning to the field for a picture with my wife. However, what was intended to be a photo capturing the two of us turned into several greetings and photos where I briefly and unwisely removed my mask. In hindsight, I should have waited until the field was clear of others to take that photo with my wife. I sincerely apologize to everyone on the field for failing to appreciate the risks of returning to the field. I have spoken with almost every teammate, coach and staff member, and my intentions were never to make anyone uncomfortable or put anyone at further risk."
So there you go. Seems a little fishy to me, but I guess he's cleared.
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