Retiring (or bugging out) abroad

[Alefroth]

Retirement is still 10-12 years away, and I know everything will be different by then, but I still like to think about, and tgb's re-appearance got me thinking about it some more. I've been considering retiring in other countries mostly for the affordability, but also just to see someplace else before I die.

I'd like to live aboard a narrowboat in England, but the reality probably isn't as romantic as the thought. Bratislava and Spain are also spots I've considered.

Anyone else considering leaving the United States to retire, or any other reason?

[LawBeefaroni]

10-15 years ago I had planned on it. Now, with kids it's not likely. And I'm not in a place yet where I can get a second residence and buy a second citizenship.

So right now I'm focused on the best place in the Midwest. Still looking.

[NickAragua]

I'm still about 30 years away from retirement, so, realistically speaking, I'll be heading to Canada, Greenland or Scandinavia. I've also frequently considered New Zealand - beautiful countryside, isolated from the rest of this crazy-ass world. And they kind of speak English. I suppose northern Russia is an option climate change-wise, but it's Russia, so...

Honestly, I ought to get that done within ten years to "beat the rush".

[Alefroth]

10-15 years ago I had planned on it. Now, with kids it's not likely. And I'm not in a place yet where I can get a second residence and buy a second citizenship.

So right now I'm focused on the best place in the Midwest. Still looking.

Yeah, that would definitely complicate it. The only family of note likely to be around when I retire is my wife's brother and his family.

[Kraken]

Anyone else considering leaving the United States to retire, or any other reason?

It depends on how things go socially and politically here over the next year or two. I don't have any desire to live in another country, and I don't want to jeopardize my SS and Medicare benefits, but I won't rule out fleeing the US if that seems prudent. Wife has Canadian roots and we visited there frequently when we were young, so that would probably be our most realistic option.

[Blackhawk]

I'd love to consider it myself, but I'm on disability. That means two things: One, nothing changes when I hit retirement age. Two, no country in the world will let me become a resident. I'm a 'burden on the system.' (Yes, that's hyperbole, but most developed nations will not allow citizenship to the disabled.)

[Alefroth]

Losing Medicare would be hard. The target country would have to have good, cheap, health care. You can keep collecting SS in most countries, though, can't you?

[Alefroth]

I'd love to consider it myself, but I'm on disability. That means two things: One, nothing changes when I hit retirement age. Two, no country in the world will let me become a resident. I'm a 'burden on the system.' (Yes, that's hyperbole, but most developed nations will not allow citizenship to the disabled.)

Yeah, that sucks. Is it SSI?

[Hamlet3145]

I've had my eye on Thailand and Malaysia for a while now and have visited both fairly extensively. Both also have relatively easy visa's available for long term residency post age 50. Neither would ever result in citizenship, but that's not really a concern. At 46, and as someone who works entirely online (even pre-Covid), I'm seriously considering a quasi-retirement there starting in a few years. American pay + foreign earned income tax exemption in a low cost of living country is no joke.

(For what it's worth, I've also not heard of any circumstance in which living abroad would impact one's social security. Indeed, quite a few retirees live abroad specifically because they only have social security for funds and the money can go much further elsewhere).

[dbt1949]

If I had enough money I'd go for Switzerland. Austrian Alps maybe. But it'll never happen.

[Carpet_pissr]

My wife is Portuguese so if we were to bug out, it would likely be there. In fact, she's been bugging me for years to move somewhere else (Portugal would be her first choice, but others would be ok). I ALMOST moved my small (at the time) family to Brazil about 10 years ago, with plans to be there for a few years (not permanently). I worked for a company where I was constantly there on business, I knew the cities extremely well, and had gotten very comfortable being there. Hell, the vast majority of my LinkedIn network are Brazilian, even though I also traveled to many other countries. My boss at the time would have paid for us to move, too, and would have likely paid rent in any apt we got. Opportunity missed. But now, they have their own "Trump", so politically, socially, that would be like going from the frying pan into the fire.

If I even STARTED to say a sentence to my wife that SOUNDED like I was considering any kind of move, before I finished that sentence she would have a for sale sign in the yard, and would already be packing.

[Z-Corn]

Need to visit a few times to make sure we like it but Medellin is attractive to us.

I only have my Father keeping us here right now. I don't really care about any other family members.

[Blackhawk]

I'd love to consider it myself, but I'm on disability. That means two things: One, nothing changes when I hit retirement age. Two, no country in the world will let me become a resident. I'm a 'burden on the system.' (Yes, that's hyperbole, but most developed nations will not allow citizenship to the disabled.)

Yeah, that sucks. Is it SSI?

SSDI. I worked for more than a decade before disability.

[Tao]

Technically I can officially retire in about 18 months at which time I would be just over 56 so a little too early. My plan at the moment is to work until I am 62 which gives me more time to increase my retirement fund, accumulate additional percentage for my pension and hopefully increase my salary level. I am seriously thinking over moving overseas at that time, my short list is Belize, Thailand, Vietnam, Portugal, Italy and Malta. Each of those is reputed to have very low cost of living. I did recently read that Malaysia is in a similar vane however I worry about the political culture and climate there. My other major concern about gong the expat route is health care. I have no real ties to the U.S. and the thought of living on/in the Mediterranean or Asia is very enticing.

[Carpet_pissr]

Hope you really love heat and humidity 365 if you’re headed to Malaysia!

Amazing food and restaurants and hotels though.

[hepcat]

My primary goal of retiring overseas is to avoid any country with a serious danger of snakes in the toilet.

[Tao]

Hope you really love heat and humidity 365 if you’re headed to Malaysia!

Amazing food and restaurants and hotels though.

I don't mind heat, not a big fan of humidity but I grew up on the east coast where humidity would get over 100% during the summer, also lived in Hawaii and the Philippines so I can get used to it.

[Alefroth]

My primary goal of retiring overseas is to avoid any country with a serious danger of snakes in the toilet.

Ireland!

[hepcat]

My primary goal of retiring overseas is to avoid any country with a serious danger of snakes in the toilet.

Ireland!

That’s silly. Ireland has toilets.

[Lorini]

I'd love to consider it myself, but I'm on disability. That means two things: One, nothing changes when I hit retirement age. Two, no country in the world will let me become a resident. I'm a 'burden on the system.' (Yes, that's hyperbole, but most developed nations will not allow citizenship to the disabled.)

You always get your disability wherever you are. A friend of mine is on disability and he's moved to Prague, London, Copenhagen and other places because his wife is with the CIA. Medicare I'm not sure about, he is probably on her plan for a health plan. So no country would need to know that you were disabled.

[Lorini]

I'd love to consider it myself, but I'm on disability. That means two things: One, nothing changes when I hit retirement age. Two, no country in the world will let me become a resident. I'm a 'burden on the system.' (Yes, that's hyperbole, but most developed nations will not allow citizenship to the disabled.)

You always get your disability wherever you are. A friend of mine is on disability and he's moved to Prague, London, Copenhagen and other places because his wife is with the CIA. Medicare I'm not sure about, he is probably on her plan for a health plan. So no country would need to know that you were disabled. Also you probably can't afford it because the cost is ridiculous but most countries will let you buy your way into citizenship.

[Isgrimnur]

Mr Plame?

[Madmarcus]

I've seriously considered it. It was already in my head but living in in Seoul for the past two years has made me fall in love with living without a car and I don't see many places I can do that in the US. The flip side is that, like many of us, my parents are older and it might be awkward to specifically say we are staying overseas to live (going overseas because of a good job/career move made sense to both sets of parents). In reality we'll probably go back to the US when I decide to retire from this job (likely in 2022 but if the US is solidly in the middle of a second Trump term it could become 2024 easily). It's the easy, default choice and the pull of having kids (grown) and aging parents is strong. My wife's practical side means she wants to keep our place in the US and travel slowly if we want to be abroad. I'm not sure I've come up with a good counter to that.

In my thinking on the option I've rejected most of the common cheaper areas (Mexico, Central American countries, SE Asia) for various reasons. I could see staying in Korea; in 5 more years of teaching here I could qualify as a permanent resident. But I'd have to become fluent in Korean and that seems unlikely. Portugal, Spain, and France look decent. Malta interested my wife for a while but I haven't looked into it as much. I heard tons of good things about Central Europe when starting to teach internationally but I don't know how well that translates into living there as a retiree.

[Kraken]

If you live in another country, do you need a US bank account to receive SS payments, or will they direct deposit into the First Bank of Somalia?

In the interest of being able to bug out I picked up a passport application at the post office, but the second page wants to know when and where my parents were born. I'm stumped. Can I just guess, or is some poor schlub going to fact-check it?

[Anonymous Bosch]

If you live in another country, do you need a US bank account to receive SS payments, or will they direct deposit into the First Bank of Somalia?

You can set up a direct deposit to a bank account outside the US, though not all countries qualify. You can check here to see the countries with which the United States has an international direct deposit agreement. Having said that though, it would still be prudent to retain a U.S. bank account with a quality service that provides good ATM access, good online banking, and will not freak out if/when you use a foreign ATM or log into your online account from a foreign nation. So it would be important to confirm you're banking with a service that fully understands how to cooperate with customers who operate internationally.

In the interest of being able to bug out I picked up a passport application at the post office, but the second page wants to know when and where my parents were born. I'm stumped. Can I just guess, or is some poor schlub going to fact-check it?

According to this guide, that information is only required when completing the hard copy version of the U.S. passport application. So you may want to try using the online application form instead.

[em2nought]

Well, my life has just changed dramatically and forever.

If all goes well, I should be starting on this road as at least semi-retirement in January. I think I'll just visit until a country is ready to kick me out, and then visit the next one. I've still got Colombian dinero in my pocket so maybe Medellin first, and then on to Cuenca. Maybe Thailand will open up by the time I'm done in South America.

It might be nice to be in a city where the statues are fatter than me.

[Hamlet3145]

Having said that though, it would still be prudent to retain a U.S. bank account with a quality service that provides good ATM access, good online banking, and will not freak out if/when you use a foreign ATM or log into your online account from a foreign nation. So it would be important to confirm you're banking with a service that fully understands how to cooperate with customers who operate internationally.

My main checking account is a Charles Schwab investor checking account. I used it extensively over a year and a half of world travel to get cash from local ATMs with no issues. Schwab is also one of the very few places that waives all ATM fees, even international:

https://www.schwab.com/checking

[Jeff V]

I suspect my wife has something going on that's going to result in us owning some property in the Philippines before long. I can't see it ever becoming a permanent residence, assuming the kids hit no delays along the way, my daughter would get her undergraduate degree when I am 77 (and I know it's still really early, but her interests are currently trending towards a more advanced degree). I think my wife's "age is just a number" mantra is going to butt heads with reality by then (my dad died at age 78). We are obligated to maintain a homestead in the US until the kids are on their own (which often does not immediately follow college these days).

A few years ago, a coworker bought into a new community development on Palawan that specifically targeting first world ex-pats, which high end shopping and healthcare. Oceanfront lots were going for about $35K and building houses there isn't too expensive an endeavor (probably could have a near-mansion built for $100K).

[Kraken]

In the interest of being able to bug out I picked up a passport application at the post office, but the second page wants to know when and where my parents were born. I'm stumped. Can I just guess, or is some poor schlub going to fact-check it?

According to this guide, that information is only required when completing the hard copy version of the U.S. passport application. So you may want to try using the online application form instead.

Good, thanks. The instructions on the paper form aren't even clear on whether a non-minor needs to fill out the parental info.

[Jeff V]

In the interest of being able to bug out I picked up a passport application at the post office, but the second page wants to know when and where my parents were born. I'm stumped. Can I just guess, or is some poor schlub going to fact-check it?

Born: Transylvania, circa 1856. Undied 20 years later. Current whereabouts unknown.

[Madmarcus]

I'd like to live aboard a narrowboat in England, but the reality probably isn't as romantic as the thought. Bratislava and Spain are also spots I've considered.

Anyone else considering leaving the United States to retire, or any other reason?

BTW, I didn't mention this before but I could see living on a narrowboat if I was single. As I get older I am turning more to an appreciation of offbeat and unusual things and things with history. A narrowboat would fit both. I suppose I'd get used to driving it in time (and switching locations frequently). My wife wouldn't want to do it though. It's probably a good thing; she keeps me from doing a lot of things that would get me labeled as crazy.

By coincidence I was talking to my parents this morning about their impending move to a retirement home (independent living apartment). My dad is clearly starting to feel his age and, while he won't say it, I think he wishes that we would move closer. It will be interesting to see how things shake out in the next year or two. Most of the time I feel like settling down outside the US would be great but it is predicated on being able to get back if I want or need to see people.

[Jeff V]

While a boat might do, my wife is also open to doing the RV think, which would at least keep us in the country. A friend of my dad's (and former teacher at my high school) did just that and I think he still is...well into his 80's.

[Madmarcus]

We've talked about an RV but neither of us is willing to drive one. We'd also really miss a decent kitchen.

Alternating with the ideas of staying abroad are ideas about buying a cheap, big, old house in the Midwest somewhere. The problem with that is that I'm rapidly learning that while I like tinkering I don't really like doing big maintenance.

[Carpet_pissr]

Out of the blue at dinner the other night, my wife posits the idea of moving to Portugal to the family. Was interesting to see the reactions from our three kids (9/13/15) change and morph as they considered it for the first time. Our oldest at 15 was probably the most...hesitant, and interestingly, she is the one that has spent the most time there (once an entire summer by herself at her grandma's house), and speaks the best Portuguese.

The other two were mostly "meh, whatever!" Just talk for now, but my wife was definitely putting out feelers. Before Trump, she has been wanting to move...somewhere. A lot of it is politics, but it's also education, climate, and many other issues. I will say that no one was totally enthusiastic, but things shifted a bit from shock and hesitancy as they weighed the implications, to moderate acceptance and even throwing out some positives.

Many many moons ago, before we were married, my wife and I spent a week far above the north pole, in God's country, figuring out our "future" life together, and who would move, and where. I guess I was the most unwilling to move (to Stockholm, at the time (doh!)), so she quit her sweet job and moved here. She gave up a LOT ( I see that more and more with time in the rearview mirror) to be with me, and after 20 years, I feel somewhat compelled? (not the right word) to let her "have a turn" as it were.

Messy doesn't describe what it would require with multiple pets (a newish lab puppy to boot!), three kids, and the least $$ we've ever had in our lives.

She kind of went around the table asking everyone individually what they thought, while I was mostly silent, listening to the kids. Although I am less than enthusiastic about the idea (and I'm not sure EXACTLY why....I need to dig deeper), the most prominent issue, right now, is money. It's not cheap to move internationally. We do have a crap ton of equity in our house, which has increased in value roughly 35% since we bought it 7 years ago, so maybe that is the financial solution if there is one.

My wife would easily be able to get a much higher paying job than she has now (working for the SC Dept of Education), but I would be a question mark. Had we done this 10 years ago, it would have been MUCH easier, as my work would have allowed me to work from there, and they probably would have even paid for some of the move. Certainly at least would have paid for any kind of work accommodations I needed once there.

Now? I am basically self-employed, making around 75% less than what I used to just a few years ago. It would be nearly impossible, just from a financial perspective...currently (barring breaking open the piggy bank that is our house I guess).

I am also struggling with the fact that apparently I am a person who is quite resistant to change (just now learning this, or admitting it to myself at 47!), so I have to be aware that there is that shoulder devil telling me all the reasons why I SHOULDN'T even consider this. That little bastard has caused me much grief over the course of my life, but I am on to him now.

[dbt1949]

I remember when I was young they had a forcible government over throw there. Left me to this day feeling rather insecure about Portugal.

[Alefroth]

1910?

[Kasey Chang]

Hypothetically, if you are willing to brave tropical conditions, retiring in South America or Southeast Asia can be VERY comfortable most of the time. Nice weather, friendly people, and your money go a LOT further. The problem is you have to find a bunch of ex-pats for periodic get-togethers, and you'd be away from most of your friends and relatives, and you need to at least try to know the local language.

We are talking theoreticals, right?

[hepcat]

But I believe South America is riddled with ex Nazi scientists. So be warned.

[dbt1949]

I remember when I was young they had a forcible government over throw there. Left me to this day feeling rather insecure about Portugal.

I just looked it up. 1974

[Carpet_pissr]

It was a coup, yes, but almost laughably one of the most peaceful ever. I don’t think anyone died or was injured even. Haven’t looked it up, could be way off, hearsay from the wife