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2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

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2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Pyperkub »

As good a time as any to start up after the Tourney(s) were cancelled last year.

Leading off with Gregg Marshall at Wichita St. I'm rather shocked at this, as I thought he would be a good fit at UCLA. Now? Uh, no effing way. Loving Cronin. This reminds me WAY too much of how Howland's personality and ego torpedoed the program he took to 3 straight Final Fours.
The details reported by The Athletic and Stadium are sickening: Marshall punching former player Shaq Morris, according to The Athletic, “between his shoulders and near his neck.” Marshall choking a former assistant coach, racially taunting a former player and body shaming another. The behavior explains, in part, the anomalous exodus of transfers from Wichita State in recent seasons, which included six players and a walk-on this spring.

The portrait that emerges from the stories isn’t just one of a deranged coach. It veers into an ethically challenged university allowing a coach to act this way.
Side note, it wasn't until this month I learned that the Koch brothers are alums and have been plowing money into the hoops program. I don't have a problem with that, as long as it's done appropriately (not cheating), I just didn't know it, and I expect it did play into this behavior.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Lassr »

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:43 pm As good a time as any to start up after the Tourney(s) were cancelled last year.

Leading off with Gregg Marshall at Wichita St. I'm rather shocked at this, as I thought he would be a good fit at UCLA. Now? Uh, no effing way. Loving Cronin. This reminds me WAY too much of how Howland's personality and ego torpedoed the program he took to 3 straight Final Fours.
The details reported by The Athletic and Stadium are sickening: Marshall punching former player Shaq Morris, according to The Athletic, “between his shoulders and near his neck.” Marshall choking a former assistant coach, racially taunting a former player and body shaming another. The behavior explains, in part, the anomalous exodus of transfers from Wichita State in recent seasons, which included six players and a walk-on this spring.

The portrait that emerges from the stories isn’t just one of a deranged coach. It veers into an ethically challenged university allowing a coach to act this way.
Side note, it wasn't until this month I learned that the Koch brothers are alums and have been plowing money into the hoops program. I don't have a problem with that, as long as it's done appropriately (not cheating), I just didn't know it, and I expect it did play into this behavior.
He was up for the Bama jobs when it was open, glad he turned it down now. I'm happy with the recruits Nate Oats has brought to the program, excited to see what the team looks like this year. Tired of mediocrity of the past decade.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Pyperkub »

NCAA Hoops Action has restarted today!

It's weird for me, I still kind of feel like it's March Madness as we never got any resolution, but with UCLA having just about the whole team back, we'll see how Coach Cronin does in year 1.5 after miraculously getting the Bruins into contention for the Pac-12 title and a berth in the Big Dance last year.

In other news, Gregg Marshall was forced to resign.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Big Ten-ACC Challenge time! Well, kind of. Three games were canceled due to COVID, but the show must (for some reason) go on. After the first day, the Big Ten has secured the Challenge by going 6-1. With only 4 games left to be potentially played today, that locks it in. Among the canceled games were Michigan vs. NC State. (Naturally it was canceled by NC State's issues, as a prestigious university like Michigan would never allow COVID to taint its sports programs. (Ignore the football team, please.)) Michigan hastily scheduled Toledo as a fill-in for tonight, so I guess that makes Toledo an honorary ACC team?

The Big Ten sure picked a helluva year to be a dominant basketball league.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

The ACC got absolutely walloped this year. That said, I felt relatively good about how Carolina played against Iowa. We got blitzed out of the gate with three point shots but managed to come back and take the lead twice in the second half, before getting blitzed again. Our main issues right now are turnovers and FTs. Hopefully the latter is just an aberration and the former is expected with two freshmen starting guards. If they can clean it up a bit (which I expect they will), I think we'll be a pretty solid team late in the season.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Coach K questions whether we should have a basketball season. Now, it's possible I just missed it, but I don't recall him expressing those concerns before his team started 2-2 with two home losses to Big Ten teams (including getting housed by Illinois last night). In fact, the linked article notes that he was pushing to ensure a tournament this year back in July. Granted, he's not necessarily wrong and he might well have reconsidered and changed his mind in the interim, but it's a bad look to complain about this in the aftermath of getting blown out.

I wonder if his back is going to start acting up?
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Lorini »

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:28 pm Coach K questions whether we should have a basketball season. Now, it's possible I just missed it, but I don't recall him expressing those concerns before his team started 2-2 with two home losses to Big Ten teams (including getting housed by Illinois last night). In fact, the linked article notes that he was pushing to ensure a tournament this year back in July. Granted, he's not necessarily wrong and he might well have reconsidered and changed his mind in the interim, but it's a bad look to complain about this in the aftermath of getting blown out.

I wonder if his back is going to start acting up?
Really :roll:
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Lorini »

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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by YellowKing »

I think it's hilarious that Duke haters still believe that the winningest college basketball coach in history is so upset about two home losses that he'd rather scrap the entire season than have the possibility of having a mediocre team during a pandemic. Give me a break. He's already the GOAT, he doesn't have anything to prove to anybody.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

YellowKing wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:17 pm I think it's hilarious that Duke haters still believe that the winningest college basketball coach in history is so upset about two home losses that he'd rather scrap the entire season than have the possibility of having a mediocre team during a pandemic. Give me a break. He's already the GOAT, he doesn't have anything to prove to anybody.
So I get this right. He wanted to play back in July, even issuing vague threats to the NCAA if they don't have a tournament this year ("But we need—and the NCAA needs—[a] men's NCAA tournament. If you don't have it two years in a row, the NCAA, financially, could go in another direction."). He didn't make any statements about not having a season up until the season's start (unless I missed something - quite possible). He decides to speak out against the season (a reasonable course of action given the pandemic), but not until he loses two of his first four games - both at home.

I'm not saying he's not a great college basketball coach. I'm not saying he has anything to prove. I do think it's fair, however, to question why Coach K, one of the most influential names in college basketball, waited until now to raise these concerns. (And to be clear, if he was saying this ahead of the season, I'll retract my puzzlement.)
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by YellowKing »

ImLawBoy wrote:He decides to speak out against the season (a reasonable course of action given the pandemic), but not until he loses two of his first four games - both at home.
I did a little background research so I wasn't knee-jerk defending him, and that's when I discovered the media's search for a splashy headline leaves out some crucial contextual information.

The reason he made his comments at this time was that he was directly asked by a reporter if it felt right to continue playing after 4 games had been canceled due to Covid concerns and after his former assistant Jeff Capel had spoken out about continuing the season earlier in the week. Of course most of the articles fail to mention that, and make it look like he spontaneously started talking about Covid due to the loss. (Also worth noting, before he answered this question, he spent 10 minutes responding to questions about the game and specifically NOT making excuses for his team's performance.)

If you listen to his full answer, his primary concern was the NCAA's "decision by committee" that led to a slate of games being scheduled right as case counts were growing, and that committee decisions weren't agile enough to respond to the fluctuations in Covid numbers. His pushing for a tournament back in July was due to the financial fallout of not having one, at a time when we weren't experiencing surging caseloads and hopes for a vaccine rollout before the end of the year were still possible.

It seems the unease around the season is pretty widespread among coaches. Jay Bilas mentioned it while announcing the game, and Rick Pitino has already spoken about it. I'm guessing Coach K, in response to the reporter's question, just saw an opportunity to express what many of his peers had been privately communicating.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

That helps Coach K's position a little bit, but it's still a bad look for him. The only thing that's changed about the pandemic since the season started is the results of the games. I get that he's responding to a reporter's question, but if this was a serious concern for him, it should have been a serious concern for him two weeks ago. Yeah, now he's seeing the cancellation of games due to the virus, but he's not stupid - he saw what happened in the college football world and he knew these cancellations would be coming.

Coach K has, as you point out, a pretty good argument for being the GOAT of college basketball coaches. He leads one of the most high profile programs in the country in a premier college basketball conference. If this were something that were a serious concern to him, he didn't need to wait until a reporter asked him about it. He could call a press availability to discuss his breakfast and he'd get national media joining in. If he's going to be a leader in college basketball and a leader of men, shouldn't he raise these serious concerns on his own instead of waiting for someone to ask him about it?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to call out a college basketball leader who may well be the GOAT college basketball coach on this. Waiting to raise these concerns until after he was asked in a postgame press conference after getting run out of his own building looks like sour grapes.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by YellowKing »

It's only a bad look to people who are pre-dispositioned to not like the guy. And he recognized that when he answered the question because he knew how those people were going to spin it.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion on Coach K. I just don't think the argument makes much sense. If he wanted to use Covid as a sour grapes excuse, he could have come right out with it at the start of the press conference instead of spending 10 minutes listing multiple legitimate reasons why his team lost.

At any rate, I haven't watched any Duke games this season or last season, so I'm in danger of having to turn in my fan card anyway. :D
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

It's only not a bad look to people who blindly defend him.

See how that works both ways? I gave thoughtful reasons why it was a bad look, and I took your feedback into consideration noting that it helped his case somewhat. You just dismiss it all by saying I'm just predisposed to dislike him.

People we like and respect sometimes goof up. It's OK to admit that Coach K biffed this answer. It doesn't make him any less of a basketball coach. It means he's human and made a mistake. He's media savvy enough to have known he should have deflected the question.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

One other thing. You don't have to agree with my conclusions here. Reasonable people can disagree on a topic like this. But don't insultingly dismiss my conclusions as something only someone who is predisposed to dislike Coach K could come to.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by YellowKing »

I'm not interested in getting in a fight over it, like I said, I haven't watched a Duke game in 2 seasons. But I'm not dismissing your conclusions because you're predisposed to hate Coach K (I don't know if you are or not). I'm dismissing them because they don't make any sense.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:34 pm But I'm not dismissing your conclusions because you're predisposed to hate Coach K (I don't know if you are or not).
OK, but:
YellowKing wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:51 pm It's only a bad look to people who are pre-dispositioned to not like the guy.

YellowKing wrote:I'm dismissing them because they don't make any sense.
I'll take my chances with what I wrote. :tjg:
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Can we at least all agree that Coach K is the worst?
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:59 pm Can we at least all agree that Coach K is the worst?
Sorry, I'm gonna have to go with Tom Izzo. I have rivalries to uphold over here.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by YellowKing »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Can we at least all agree that Coach K is the worst?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

In all honesty I'm not upset about any of it ImLawBoy, just having some fun - I really wasn't directing that statement about people "predisposed to hate Coach K"" specifically towards you, but on the general haters. Coach K actually pointed out during his answer in the press conference that he knew some people would take his answer the wrong way, which is what I was referencing.

Cutting the cord at the house and then the pandemic on top of it has pretty much killed my passion for college basketball (or any sports, for that matter). There was a time when I'd be prepared to throw punches over the Duke/UNC rivalry, but I've gotten too old and too distanced from it to have the energy anymore.
ImLawBoy wrote:Sorry, I'm gonna have to go with Tom Izzo. I have rivalries to uphold over here.
Let's agree to......AGREE!!! :lol:
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Duke canceled the rest of the non-conference

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... christmas/

Good for them
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Pyperkub wrote:Duke canceled the rest of the non-conference

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... christmas/

Good for them
Well, that amounts to canceling one game against a no name opponent. I doubt they would’ve done so if scheduled to okay a big name out of conference team.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Pyperkub »

The UCLA - Marquette game tonight was fantastic. Mick Cronin has things rolling in Westwood.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Arizona
The Arizona Wildcats announced Tuesday that they are self-imposing a one-year postseason ban for the 2020-21 season, which will keep them out of the NCAA and Pac-12 Tournaments.

The UA says it is “a proactive measure in its ongoing NCAA enforcement process” and “an acknowledgement that the NCAA’s investigation revealed that certain former members of the MBB staff displayed serious lapses in judgment and a departure from the University’s expectation of honest and ethical behavior.”
...
The Wildcats confirmed in October that they had received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA. And while they were unwilling to release any details, The Athletic reported they have been accused of multiple Level I violations, which are considered the most severe and can lead to a postseason ban, loss of scholarships, show-cause penalties, etc.

UA’s statement likely alludes to former UA assistants Book Richardson and Mark Phelps.

Richardson was arrested in 2017 and later spent three months in prison after pleading guilty to accepting $20,000 in bribes in exchange for steering Arizona players to sign with agent Christian Dawkins and financial manager Munish Sood.

Phelps was placed on administrative leave in February 2019 and eventually saw his contract expire because of what ESPN reported was a “fraudulent online course” involving former UA commit Shareef O’Neal, an accusation Phelps’ attorney has vehemently denied.

Phelps had previously been suspended without pay for reportedly buying a plane ticket for former UA forward Keanu Pinder.

Head coach Sean Miller has denied ever knowingly breaking NCAA rules and supported the university’s decision to ban his program from the postseason.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Pyperkub »

I doubt that will be enough. Arizona seems like they could be in a world of hurt. They would be if the NCAA had any teeth, as would Kansas, but we do know that the NCAA comes down hardest on the non-blue bloods. The question is, whether the NCAA will treat Arizona as a blue blood...
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Michigan is the lone remaining unbeaten Big Ten team and is ranked 10th in the newest rankings. On the downside, Michigan's schedule hasn't been as tough as some other teams in the conference (which is why Iowa and Wisconsin are ranked ahead with losses). Still, things are looking good for Juwan Howard's squad, and they've got the #1 ranked recruiting class for next year (although it will probably end up a few notches lower once things are all said and done).
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

The top 10 showdown in the Big Ten between Michigan (7) and Wisconsin (9) started out fun, but ended as a laugher when Michigan went on a 43-6 run! After starting the season against less than impressive competition, Michigan has now defeated three straight ranked teams by at least 19 points. If you want to see the last time that's been done, don't bother. In the history of college basketball, that's never been done.

If Juwan Howard keeps this up, he's going to be headed to the NBA too soon.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Wasn't he already an assistant coach in the NBA? I'm sure he'll get some enticing offers, but it sort of seemed like coaching at Michigan was his dream job.
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by Lassr »

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:10 am The top 10 showdown in the Big Ten between Michigan (7) and Wisconsin (9) started out fun, but ended as a laugher when Michigan went on a 43-6 run! After starting the season against less than impressive competition, Michigan has now defeated three straight ranked teams by at least 19 points. If you want to see the last time that's been done, don't bother. In the history of college basketball, that's never been done.

If Juwan Howard keeps this up, he's going to be headed to the NBA too soon.
I have been impressed with him, and yep, NBA looks likely unless he just wants to stay "home."

Also liking what I have seen from Nate Oats and Alabama. Beat Auburn at Auburn, beat Florida, and Kentucky at Kentucky last night. Several teams Bama has not been able to beat the past many years
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Re: 2020-21 return of NCAA Hoops thread

Post by ImLawBoy »

Howard was an assistant in the NBA for a few years and was looking to get a head coaching gig, but never could get one. I think everyone assumes that Michigan is his dream NCAA job, but that ultimately he wants to be an NBA head coach. The good news for Michigan fans is that he's likely to be around for at least a few more years as one of his sons is a freshman on the team this year, and another starts next year (I think). The one starting next year is very highly ranked, too, so I'm sure he's looking forward to trying to win with his kids.
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