COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:34 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:39 pm I'd be OK with going to a split schedule. I was the easy call. I think he's going.to have more difficult calls getting the 100% WFHers back into the office a few days a week.

In my office, getting people in once a month is pulling teeth and too many don't do it unless you call them to the mat. They need to be careful what they wish for. If your availability to be physically present is that unnecessary, how necessary is it that you fill the position? After 1.5 years of having a nearly empty office, I can very reasonably see the mothership wondering why they are paying US wages for work performed nearly 100% by remote.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:56 pm

Our office re-opens next Tuesday. It's opt-in, so folks are generally free to work from home as much or as little as they want. I'm planning on going in at least 3x/week. My management and working styles are not well-suited to working from the tiny home office. God I'm sick of being stuck in this room.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:46 pm

my new job (yes, i got one) is a 'hybrid' in-office/WFH situation. supposedly. but given i need to be here to set up test configurations on the actual equipment, i have been in the office EVERY SINGLE DAY since i started. if this is going to continue, i need to speak with the co-founder to see what the real situation will be.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:21 pm

This could be interesting...

Researchers in Japan have developed a vaccination strategy in mice that promotes the production of antibodies that can neutralize not only SARS-CoV-2 but a broad range of other coronaviruses as well. If successfully translated to humans, the approach, to be published today (October 8, 2021), in the Journal of Experimental Medicine, could lead to the development of a next-generation vaccine capable of preventing future coronavirus pandemics....

...Kurosaki and colleagues decided to test a new vaccination strategy that might enable the immune system to produce more broadly neutralizing antibodies. The researchers genetically engineered the receptor-binding domain of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, covering its head region in additional sugar molecules. These sugar molecules could shield the head region from the immune system and boost the production of antibodies against the unshielded core region of the receptor-binding domain.

Indeed, mice immunized with these engineered proteins produced a much higher proportion of antibodies recognizing the core region of the spike protein receptor-binding domain. These antibodies were able to neutralize the cellular entry of not only SARS-CoV-2 but also SARS-CoV-1 and three SARS-like coronaviruses from bats and pangolins.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:22 pm

And now CDC sets advisory meetings for boosters & kids #covid19 vaccines:

Oct 20-21 to discuss Moderna, J&J boosters
Nov 2-3 to discuss pediatric #covid19 vaccination

So...after 11/4 now? By Thanksgiving?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:31 pm

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:43 pm

You rascal!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:53 pm

Still nothing on Moderna for 12-18. Odd.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:22 pm

And now CDC sets advisory meetings for boosters & kids #covid19 vaccines:

Oct 20-21 to discuss Moderna, J&J boosters
Nov 2-3 to discuss pediatric #covid19 vaccination
So...after 11/4 now? By Thanksgiving?

Is pediatric the same thing as 5-11, or is pediatric essentially 0 - 4? If it's the former, is this a second meeting or did the Oct. 26th meeting get delayed?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:45 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:43 pm Is pediatric the same thing as 5-11, or is pediatric essentially 0 - 4? If it's the former, is this a second meeting or did the Oct. 26th meeting get delayed?

10/26 is the FDA. The new one is the CDC. Both must sign off.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:06 pm

Pediatric is *technically* anyone from birth to the age of 18, so that's just how the CDC labels their panel evaluation. But as noted, both must sign off.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:30 pm

Better news - millions of shots are ready to go:

Within days of regulators clearing the nation’s first vaccine for younger children, federal officials say they will begin pushing out as many as 20 million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech pediatric vaccine to inoculate school-age kids across America in a bid to control the coronavirus pandemic.

The kickoff of the long-awaited children’s vaccination campaign is expected as soon as early November. And this time round, the government has purchased enough doses to give two shots to all 28 million eligible children, ages 5 to 11.

Caveat:

Still, federal and state officials and health providers say that vaccinating children is likely to be a more challenging process than it was for adults and teens. The federal government plans to allocate the initial shots according to a formula to ensure equitable distribution, likely based on a state’s population of eligible children, according to a federal health official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share planning. Enlisting besieged health providers and persuading reluctant parents will complicate the process.

Post by **FishPants** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:33 am

My wife and I just got back from a week long vacation to British Columbia.. It was the first time we had been on a plane in 2 years, and I was pretty happy to see that Nexus security lines were still a thing - because that regular security line was a Covid nightmare (mask required, but still corrals of people in close quarters waiting for god knows how long).

Flight itself was uneventful, we spent all the points we had saved up to fly business class - partly because we hadn't travelled anywhere in what seemed like forever, and secondly to get more elbow room and no stranger in third seat (Coach was packed, all seats). Mask on unless eating/drinking.

Anyhow once we got to BC they've been dealing with vaccine certificates for restaurants for awhile, and there's something reassuring about knowing when you sit down to eat that every patron in the restaurant is 100% vaccinated (every place we went to checked and enforced). By the end of the week I was pretty relaxed eating out, and being around people felt good - not normal at all, but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel I guess. By the end of this month you won't be able to get on a plane without proving full vax and that will help with the stress of flying for sure.

Downside on further travel is that the USA apparently has new vaccine restrictions coming into play Nov 1st, and those of us Canadians who bought into the Canadian government's line of bullshit on AZ for the first shot and MRNA for the second shot won't be permitted entry, and of course the Ontario government is silent on what their plan is for the 200k of us that are in the same situation. We followed the government advice to "get the first shot you can", then "whoopsie that shot is shit, sorry about that, have an mRNA. Some studies say it's better to have one of each!", and now "You can't have a booster, and that half assed planning we did means you can't travel to a number of countries". Guess I shouldn't complain, still healthy and COVID free - but my trust of our government health officials is a shit load lower than it used to be (which was 100%). I don't have an immediate desire to travel to the states while it's burning in COVID, I'm concerned more countries will continue to adopt their stance of blocking mixed vax recipients. If it's shit, give me a moderna booster - if it's not shit, then remove the restriction - instead I'm stuck in limbo. Am I protected? To a certain degree, but who hell knows how much.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:21 am

AZ for the first shot and MRNA for the second shot won't be permitted entry

??? Why is that?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:31 am

Probably a combination of the fact that the US still hasn't approved the AZ vaccine for use, and that countries that didn't need to resort to mix-and-match vaccine regimens may not recognize them as being fully vaccinated. I had Pfizer for my first dose and Moderna for the second, and I'm not certain that even that combination would be recognized in all jurisdictions.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:14 am

New data suggests Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines paid off

New Canadian data suggests the bold strategy to delay and mix second doses of COVID-19 vaccines led to strong protection from infection, hospitalization and death — even against the highly contagious delta variant — that could provide lessons for the world.

Preliminary data from researchers at the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) and the Quebec National Institute of Public Health (INSPQ) shows the decision to vaccinate more Canadians sooner by delaying second shots by up to four months saved lives.

The researchers excluded long-term care residents from the data, who are generally at increased risk of hospitalization and death from COVID-19, in order to get a better sense of vaccine effectiveness in the general population — and the results were exceptional.

The analysis of close to 250,000 people in B.C. from May 30 to Sept. 11 found two doses of any of the three available COVID-19 vaccines in Canada were close to 95 per cent effective against hospitalization — regardless of the approved vaccination combination.

"Protection was even stronger when the interval between the first and the second doses was more than six weeks apart."

In fact, the research showed that protection against COVID-19 infection from two doses of the Pfizer vaccine rose dramatically when the first and second shots were spread out — from 82 per cent after three or four weeks, to 93 per cent after four months.

"For those who received the AstraZeneca vaccine as their first dose, their protection against any infection was lower than for mRNA vaccine recipients, but they had comparable protection against hospitalization and that's the main goal," she said.

"But for those who received a first dose of AstraZeneca and a second dose as an mRNA vaccine, their protection was as good as those who had received two mRNA vaccines. So that's also a really important finding from this analysis."

"The mix-and-match schedules are protecting well, and my preference would be that those countries who don't recognize that get to see our data as soon as possible," she said, adding that the findings were sent to U.S. officials for review of international travel policies.

"My hope is that when they see the evidence that they will change those policies, which are frankly inconsistent with the science."

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:16 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:22 pm

And now CDC sets advisory meetings for boosters & kids #covid19 vaccines:

Oct 20-21 to discuss Moderna, J&J boosters
Nov 2-3 to discuss pediatric #covid19 vaccination
So...after 11/4 now? By Thanksgiving?

I’m sorry, but it seems like those meetings could be a little more urgently scheduled. IMO.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:08 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:16 pm I’m sorry, but it seems like those meetings could be a little more urgently scheduled. IMO.

They had to work with the conference room's schedule.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:36 pm

Dang it, was about to post the same thing Max did. Got the jump on me

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:43 pm

So...I was kinda waiting for this to make bigger news, but I guess people are just starting to figure it out now.

There's really no plan to vaccinate kids under 12. I mean, they know what needs to be done (bigger picture) but private pharmacies (like CVS) aren't going to vaccinate kids and I'm not sure how bringing a kid under 12 to a megasite would work. While that might be technically possible (liability reasons), I'm pretty sure it's also a higher stress / less comfort option than what should be done - which is taking your <12 year old to your local pediatrician's office.

However, this is where it all falls apart because there are no plans (that I'm aware of) to help or assist local pediatrician's offices deal with dedicated COVID-19 vaccinations for kids. I'm talking staffing, space or even the ability to store the vaccines to meet demand.

I mention this because I'm not seeing anything locally in my state as to how it will be handled and if the plan is to really start doing this in ~3 weeks, I'm questioning how it will happen.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:47 pm

Trying to untangle what's happening with Team Moderna booster:

Food and Drug Administration staffers in an unusual move didn’t take a stance on Moderna Inc.’s application for a booster dose, indicating there may not be sufficient data to support the extra dose.

FDA staff, after reviewing a drugmaker’s application, often weigh in whether it should be given a go-ahead. Yet they didn’t take a position on Pfizer Inc.’s booster request, later granted. In documents made public Tuesday, FDA staff simply restated Moderna’s request and analyzed Moderna’s study data.

The staff said the third dose increased the antibody response sufficiently, one endpoint of the study. The extra dose, however, narrowly missed meeting the other study endpoint, of increasing antibody levels by a large magnitude and in a high enough percentage of study subjects.

The staffers’ review now goes to a committee of outside experts, who are scheduled to meet on Thursday and discuss whether the agency should authorize a Moderna booster shot.

Despite the lack of a staff endorsement of a Pfizer booster, the agency later authorized an extra dose for seniors and some high-risk adults.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:26 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:43 pm So...I was kinda waiting for this to make bigger news, but I guess people are just starting to figure it out now.

There's really no plan to vaccinate kids under 12. I mean, they know what needs to be done (bigger picture) but private pharmacies (like CVS) aren't going to vaccinate kids and I'm not sure how bringing a kid under 12 to a megasite would work. While that might be technically possible (liability reasons), I'm pretty sure it's also a higher stress / less comfort option than what should be done - which is taking your <12 year old to your local pediatrician's office.

However, this is where it all falls apart because there are no plans (that I'm aware of) to help or assist local pediatrician's offices deal with dedicated COVID-19 vaccinations for kids. I'm talking staffing, space or even the ability to store the vaccines to meet demand.

I mention this because I'm not seeing anything locally in my state as to how it will be handled and if the plan is to really start doing this in ~3 weeks, I'm questioning how it will happen.

I had seen mention of this sort of issue in articles last week, with a hand-wavey 'we'll sort it out by then' sort of conclusion. Did not inspire the most confidence.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:36 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:26 pm I had seen mention of this sort of issue in articles last week, with a hand-wavey 'we'll sort it out by then' sort of conclusion. Did not inspire the most confidence.

More came out last night.

I'm pretty far down the chain in terms of getting information, but if/when I see something I'll share what I can.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:40 pm

Locally, and around the nation I'm sure, parents are suing school boards for making their child wear a mask during school. Schools are also being prohibited from wearing masks as a court ruling said only the health department and the governor can issue a mask mandate.
Parents are fighting to make their kids more susceptible to the covid virus.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:41 pm

Maybe a bit too much info for the casual reading, but there's some data out now on the mixing and matching of boosters.

In short, J&J people gain greatest benefit by getting a Moderna booster and when you get two J&J shots, you're now around the same level of someone that had two Pfizer vaccinations (original recommended course).

Finally the study we've all been waiting for on mix&match boosters.

Results: J&J starts at 6-15x lower antibodies than Pfizer/Moderna. It's boosted 56x by Moderna, 5x by another J&J.

Clearly Moderna is the better booster for #JnJers

All as predicted

Science. Every time.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:48 pm

Looks like it's official. The borders will open in November. It hasn't been said specifically when, but I'm guessing the week before American Thanksgiving.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:50 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:41 pm Maybe a bit too much info for the casual reading, but there's some data out now on the mixing and matching of boosters.

In short, J&J people gain greatest benefit by getting a Moderna booster and when you get two J&J shots, you're now around the same level of someone that had two Pfizer vaccinations (original recommended course).

Did they test J&J followed by Pfizer/BioNTech or just Moderna?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:21 pm

Max Peck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:50 pm Did they test J&J followed by Pfizer/BioNTech or just Moderna?

It's a little deeper in that tweet; they're not done yet but:

Pfizer boosters are only halfway through testing (day 29 not available) so I didn't discuss earlier, but am now showing the Pfizer boost data below. The effects of Pfizer boosters are in between those of J&J and Moderna boosters.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:42 pm

Thanks. For some reason I didn't think to click through and check to see if there was a whole thread. The initial tweet just seemed self-contained. D'oh!

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:09 pm

I should be able to get a Pfizer booster this month or next. Not looked into it.

Post by **FishPants** » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:00 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:41 pm Maybe a bit too much info for the casual reading, but there's some data out now on the mixing and matching of boosters.

In short, J&J people gain greatest benefit by getting a Moderna booster and when you get two J&J shots, you're now around the same level of someone that had two Pfizer vaccinations (original recommended course).

Finally the study we've all been waiting for on mix&match boosters.

Results: J&J starts at 6-15x lower antibodies than Pfizer/Moderna. It's boosted 56x by Moderna, 5x by another J&J.

Clearly Moderna is the better booster for #JnJers

All as predicted
Science. Every time.

Hopefully that means that the USA will start mixing doses and in turn will accept those of us with mixed doses. The studies up here are showing similar for viral vector as initial dose (Astra) and Moderna on the second dose (Pfizer as well, but Moderna appears to offer more of an antibody response as well as longevity of said response being longer).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:14 am

Not good

This won't be a happy update for many parents of younger children:

@ScottGottliebMD says a #covid19 vaccine for kids under 5 may be pushed out to first quarter of 2022 because FDA is seeking more data before potentially clearing one

(We had expected it potentially by year-end)

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:04 pm

Positive case in my daughter's class! Yippee!

So her class is now quarantining for 10 days with remote learning, but her twin in the other second grade class is still at school. Meanwhile we're trying to keep her separated from her big brother, who is scheduled for major surgery in 2 weeks.

The good news is that she's not showing any symptoms right now. We'll get her tested soon (may use a home test if we start seeing anything suspicious), but hopefully this won't amount to much for us.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:10 pm

Hope it all turns out well and it was only the one child. Also best to your son's surgery. I know stuff like major surgery is super stressful even in the best of times.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:13 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:10 pm Hope it all turns out well and it was only the one child. Also best to your son's surgery. I know stuff like major surgery is super stressful even in the best of times.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:20 pm

FWIW, my daughter's class has had at least 1 case a week since the second week of August. Close contacts get quarantined, but as far as we know, there has been no in class room spread yet. Hope it plays out that way for you as well!

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:36 pm

We get a couple emails a week from the middle school if it's a student/teacher that has any classes with my son. No contact tracing. Only quarantine for the person who tested positive. It's about as casual as you can get. Now that he's vaccinated I am a bit more relaxed about it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:21 pm

FDA panel voted to approve Moderna booster:

A panel of advisers to the Food and Drug Administration on Thursday unanimously recommended that the agency authorize a booster dose of the Moderna COVID vaccine at least six months after completion of the initial two-dose regimen.

The recommendation applies to people 65 years and older, those 18 to 64 who are high risk of severe COVID and those people in the same age group whose work or institutional exposure puts them at high COVID risk.

The recommendation mirrors the authorization FDA gave to Pfizer-BioNTech in September.

The 19-0 vote came after presentations by representatives from the FDA and Moderna and committee discussion. The FDA typically follows the advice of its advisory committees, though it isn't required to.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:33 pm

Sweet. Now do <12 approvals...

(I know, I know--12 days...)

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:02 pm

Good news for those of us that are enjoying better living through chemistry:

Widely-used statin drugs for lowering cholesterol may be linked to a slightly lower risk of dying from COVID-19, new data suggest. Researchers at Karolinska Institute in Sweden reviewed the medical records of nearly 1 million residents of Stockholm over the age of 45 between March and November 2020, roughly 18% of whom had been prescribed a statin, such as Pfizer Inc's Lipitor (atorvastatin) and Merck & Co's (MRK.N) Zocor (simvastatin). The people prescribed statins had more risk factors for poor COVID-19 outcomes: they were older, more often male, had more medical conditions, lower education levels and less disposable income. After taking all that into account, statin users were still 12% less likely to have died of COVID-19 during the study period, according to a report published on Thursday in PLOS Medicine. The researchers did not compare outcomes in people who actually got infected with the virus, however. And they only had data on prescriptions - not on whether patients took the medicine as prescribed. A formal clinical trial would be needed to confirm the findings. Still, they conclude, their data "suggest that statin treatment may have a modest preventive therapeutic effect on COVID-19 mortality."

Solid...maybe.