Octopus Overlords

been meaning to make this for a while

leading off with what we all knew already:

Pauses in clinical trials to investigate potential safety issues, a slower-than-expected rate of infections among participants in at least one of the trials, and signals that an expert panel advising the Food and Drug Administration may not be comfortable recommending use of vaccines on very limited safety and efficacy data appear to be adding up to a slippage in the estimates of when vaccine will be ready to be deployed.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/29/it- ... 9-vaccine/

Pfizer’s admission Tuesday that it still doesn’t know whether its coronavirus vaccine works is a dose of reality for the historic global vaccine race.

The company’s failure to meet its self-imposed goal — having proof of efficacy in October — is the latest reminder that vaccine development is a long, complicated process that doesn’t stick to political deadlines. Despite the government and drug companies pumping billions of dollars into the vaccine race, getting shots into trials faster than ever before, and enrolling tens of thousands of volunteers in studies, a Covid-19 vaccine could still be months away.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/2 ... ity-432964




http://www.bizint.com/events/covid19/default.php


(if this thread should be moved to "Everything But Gaming", i'm ok with that)

I thought Kodak was supposed to have the cure in wide distribution before November. I guess they still have two days.

The Merck antiviral is interesting. And amazingly, they're not pitching it as a miracle cure.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:35 pm I thought Kodak was supposed to have the cure in wide distribution before November. I guess they still have two days.

They cured a handful of insiders' cash flow problems. That's about it.

i've been trying to find out more on Immunuvative/Mirror's ALLOSTIM, but there is very little info on it online in regards to its usage as a vaccine.

this PR states "The universal vaccine is designed to protect elderly adults from all respiratory viral infections, including COVID-19, influenza and any future mutations or novel viral outbreaks."

https://www.prnewswire.com/il/news-rele ... 81793.html

a ton of clinical studies in progress can be found here:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COVID-19

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ttle-area/

considering the coronavirus spread here is among the lowest of major US cities, it's weird there are going to be three separate trials at the same time. (AstraZeneca, J&J and Novavax. Moderna did the very first US vaccine trial ever here back in March)

AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine has 70% efficacy rate in initial late-stage trials

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... revention/

storage temperatures:

Pfizer and Moderna: -94 degrees F
AstraZeneca: 36-46 degrees F


anticipated dosage costs:

Pfizer: $20
Moderna: $15-25
AstraZeneca: $2.50

While the 70% initially seems "meh" after Pfizer and Moderna's success rates, it's still incredibly high for a first-time vaccine developed so quickly. We are fortunate we're going to have multiple good options.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:30 pm AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine has 70% efficacy rate in initial late-stage trials

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... revention/

storage temperatures:

Pfizer and Moderna: -94 degrees F
AstraZeneca: 36-46 degrees F


anticipated dosage costs:

Pfizer: $20
Moderna: $15-25
AstraZeneca: $2.50

Hah!!!! I take 10mg of Infliximab by IV every 8 weeks for Crones!!! I'm impervious to acid!!!

YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:34 pm While the 70% initially seems "meh" after Pfizer and Moderna's success rates, it's still incredibly high for a first-time vaccine developed so quickly. We are fortunate we're going to have multiple good options.

It seems like 70% is the one dose efficacy. They said it goes up to 90% if they administer a half dose followed by a full dose. Given the other two are two dose regimen, it seems fair to compare that way.

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:46 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:34 pm While the 70% initially seems "meh" after Pfizer and Moderna's success rates, it's still incredibly high for a first-time vaccine developed so quickly. We are fortunate we're going to have multiple good options.

It seems like 70% is the one dose efficacy. They said it goes up to 90% of they administer a half dose followed by a full dose.

But that bumps the price up to $3.75!

I think we're getting to the point where vaccine distribution and administration becomes the next cluster fuck. I've heard several plans bandied about, one starting with nursing home residents and other high risk people, followed by medical personnel, followed the rest of us expendables (timeline for that stretches to 2022). Another puts medical personnel first. It seems that in at least the first few vaccines, logistics are going to be further complicated by the need to keep the vaccine colder than a witch's titty before it's administered. Add to that the requirement of two applications -- none announced so far are one-and-done.

I think the highest death tolls are yet to come. Once vaccine is nominally available, people are going to toss their masks, insist everything be open at full capacity and life be as it used to be, even when they can't actually get the vaccine because their number doesn't come up until mid-2025. These idiots are going to conflate vaccine with treatment and carry on as if a vaccine actually cures those afflicted.

Jeff V wrote:need to keep the vaccine colder than a witch's titty

Thank you. Until now that's a phrase I never heard from anyone but my mom.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:06 pm

Jeff V wrote:need to keep the vaccine colder than a witch's titty

Thank you. Until now that's a phrase I never heard from anyone but my mom.

I, OTOH, use it as a generic superlative. Colder, hotter, windier, drier, slipperier...and that's just in the weathersphere.

I only heard that and one other after meeting my wife..

Colder than a witch's tit.

&

Colder than a gold digger's butt in the Klondike.

One of my female college friends used to say "cold as a wizard's prick."

YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:06 pm

Jeff V wrote:need to keep the vaccine colder than a witch's titty

Thank you. Until now that's a phrase I never heard from anyone but my mom.

Actually from what I recall, the original expression was always "Colder than a witch's Bristol (or Bristols)"

Which comes from cockney rhyming slang. Bristol = Bristol City, which rhymes with the above.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:30 pm
storage temperatures:

Pfizer and Moderna: -94 degrees F

At least from what I've read, the Moderna vaccine doesn't need to be nearly that cold.

"You have the ability to maintain it at -20 degrees Celsius, which is essentially a regular freezer temperature at home or medical freezer temperature for up to six months of which up to 30 days can be at a regular refrigerator temperature," Jordan said in an interview on Monday.

Doctors say CDC should warn people that side effects from COVID-19 vaccines won’t be ‘a walk in the park’

Both Pfizer and Moderna acknowledged that their vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild Covid-19, such as muscle pain, chills and headache.

Dr. Sandra Fryhofer of the American Medical Association noted that both Pfizer’s and Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccines require two doses at varying intervals. As a practicing physician, she said she worries whether her patients will come back for a second dose because of the potentially unpleasant side effects they may experience after the first shot.

“They are going to know they had a vaccine. They are probably not going to feel wonderful. But they’ve got to come back for that second dose.”

Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots. While the symptoms were uncomfortable, and at times intense, the participants said they often went away after a day, sometimes sooner, and that it was better than getting Covid-19.

One North Carolina woman in the Moderna study who is in her 50s said she didn’t experience a fever but suffered a bad migraine that left her drained for a day and unable to focus. She said she woke up the next day feeling better after taking Excedrin but added that Moderna may need to tell people to take a day off after a second dose.

“If this proves to work, people are going to have to toughen up,” she said. “The first dose is no big deal. And then the second dose will definitely put you down for the day for sure. ... You will need to take a day off after the second dose.”

My favorite quote was this one....

During the meeting on Monday, Patsy Stinchfield, a Children’s Minnesota nurse practitioner, said officials and drugmakers could try talking about the side effects in a more positive way. She said they could use language such as “response” instead of “adverse reaction.”

So say "They've moved on up in the universe" instead of "They died"

they need to get this messaging out now for CYA purposes, if nothing else.

My wife and I saw this commercial for Shingrix last night. We both thought that just changing it to COVID and tacking on mask use and social distancing at the end instead of Shingrix would make a great ad.

Convalescent plasma infusion did not lead to a significant difference in 30-day clinical outcomes or death in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial among patients with severe COVID-19.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2031304

Briefly caught a news story that said ...if I heard correctly.....130 something vaccine volunteers got COVID from it out of 30,000 something participants. That was Moderna.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:08 pm Briefly caught a news story that said ...if I heard correctly.....130 something vaccine volunteers got COVID from it out of 30,000 something participants. That was Moderna.

Without know the particular story, I'm guessing that they mean 130 participants in the trial contracted COVID. Likely 95%+ of them were in the placebo treatment.

My daughter works in a hospital and is not too enthusiastic about a minimally tested vaccine that injects RNA into your DNA. I will likely take it anyway since for my risk factors Covid19 = death sentence.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:35 pm My daughter works in a hospital and is not too enthusiastic about a minimally tested vaccine that injects RNA into your DNA. I will likely take it anyway since for my risk factors Covid19 = death sentence.

What's the science on DNA and RNA vaccines?

What I dont get is in the article they say DNA vaccines are fine at room temps. If thats so then why are these new ones needing super cold freezers?

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:58 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:35 pm My daughter works in a hospital and is not too enthusiastic about a minimally tested vaccine that injects RNA into your DNA. I will likely take it anyway since for my risk factors Covid19 = death sentence.

What's the science on DNA and RNA vaccines?

What I dont get is in the article they say DNA vaccines are fine at room temps. If thats so then why are these new ones needing super cold freezers?

DNA and RNA are two different molecules. RNA is more reactive than DNA - cold temperatures slow down any reaction, so it has to be kept cold to stay stable. It may very well be that it will be okay in a regular freezer or fridge (maybe for a shorter period of time) - but because of the rush and it being a completely new technology, manufacturers haven't had time to test all the variations yet.

At one point I thought I heard there was a vaccine that does not go the DNA route. Is that accurate?

Even more - these vaccines use mRNA (messenger RNA) which has a very short existence - it's not a stable molecule. I'm not sure about reactivity, but mRNA isn't built to last so yeah, the ultra cold temperatures keep it from degrading. Once it degrades, the protein code it's trying to "message" would be destroyed and the vaccine wouldn't work.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Next, I suspect we're going to learn more about the dry-ice industry in the United States and how they're going to need to ramp up and meet demand.

Sorry but YouTubers have used up all the dry ice to make fog in their videos and experiments .

Why we shouldn't be vaccinating long-term care residents:

At an earlier ACIP meeting, Talbot warned that vaccinating this population at the start of the vaccine rollout is risky, because long-term care residents have a high rate of medical events that could be confused as side effects of vaccination and undermine confidence in the vaccines. “And I think you’re going to have a very striking backlash of, ‘My grandmother got the vaccine and she passed away,’” she said at the time.

...

If I know it works in a healthy health care worker, I’d rather get all the health care workers vaccinated, so that when they are around the frail elderly, they don’t get the frail elderly sick.

We don’t have enough vaccine yet for all health care workers. We will eventually, but we don’t yet.

https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/scien ... ne-for-cov

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:14 pm At one point I thought I heard there was a vaccine that does not go the DNA route. Is that accurate?

Yeah, that's the one that had some anomalies with dosage in its trial. AstraZeneca might have to do it over before they get approval. That one's a conventional vaccine that uses a weakened cold virus as its carrier, and needs only minimal refrigeration.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:14 pm At one point I thought I heard there was a vaccine that does not go the DNA route. Is that accurate?

Biospace: Comparing COVID-19 Vaccines: Timelines, Types and Prices

*Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA
*Moderna mRNA
*AstraZeneca-University of Oxford Adenovirus-based
*Johnson & Johnson Adenovirus-based
*Russia’s Sputnik V Vaccine Adenovirus-based

Thanks, that's what I thought.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:14 pm At one point I thought I heard there was a vaccine that does not go the DNA route. Is that accurate?

Yes.

I wonder if these vaccines will cause any problems or side effects in those that have already had Covid compared to those who have never had it..

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:05 am I wonder if these vaccines will cause any problems or side effects in those that have already had Covid compared to those who have never had it..

My understanding is that there are people in the various studies that have already experienced a COVID-19 infection prior to being vaccinated and their health status is being monitored. From what I've read (and heard reported) there haven't been any adverse effects associated with prior COVID-19 exposure and then being vaccinated, at least so far.

So how many are in line in front of you?

I got 26 million. Wife got nearly the head of the line - it didn't give a number, but said if a line of 100 represented the state of Illinois, she would be 6.