Kidney Stone(s) - 0 out of 5 Stars, Do Not Recommend

[Brian]

So after a week of on/off pain and then a full, sleepless night of pain last night, I went in to the Emergicare and got myself checked out.

After checking nearly all of the symptom boxes and drawing blood and urine, the doctor gave me a shot of toradol and sent me home with a scrip for hydrocodone and instructions to drink "a lake's worth" of water.

Holy shit guys, this is some bullshit. I know a few of you have had them and man, I am belatedly sympathizing.

Ok, that's enough outta me. Imma go lay down for a bit.

[LordMortis]

So sorry. I just had my last stone in October/November. Toradol is the only thing that takes an edge off it for me and that's only something I get when I'm in the ER. I do find that water, water, water, and more more water sucks for the spasms, which is where all my pain comes from, but it does push the little bastard through.

Flomax (I think) helps the water, water, water, thing too.

[dbt1949]

Had a couple of episodes of them. Bad news, the hydrocodone doesn't work. The only thing that works is the shot. In my case the kidney stones came because I stopped drinking iced tea. That doesn't sound right I know but as soon as I started drinking it again the stones went away.

[coopasonic]

Worst pan I have ever encountered, literally lying on the floor crying in pain... so yeah, do not recommend. It has been a long time since I have had one *knocks on wood*. Good luck!

[LordMortis]

Had a couple of episodes of them. Bad news, the hydrocodone doesn't work. The only thing that works is the shot. In my case the kidney stones came because I stopped drinking iced tea. That doesn't sound right I know but as soon as I started drinking it again the stones went away.

My Mexican coworkers all swear by drinking more beer to prevent kidney stones. The problem is I get a hangover while I'm drinking, about a beer and a half in, so i don't drink, really. Also, yeah, pain killers don't work for me either. The Toradol stops the spasms, that was the relief.

Worst pan I have ever encountered, literally lying on the floor crying in pain... so yeah, do not recommend. It has been a long time since I have had one *knocks on wood*. Good luck!

Not crying in pain but puking in pain. And inviting the puking as a minor distraction from the pain itself.

[Daehawk]

Im so sorry. Kidney Stones can bring down a Navy Seal and make him cry in a ball on the floor. I feel for you man. Really do.

Ive passed about 9, had 2 blastings, 1 full on surgery, and perhaps 5 ER visits. The wife passed about 20+ with some ER visits tossed in.

Ive tried to 'man up' through some and sat here 7 hours in severe pain and throwing up and still been forced to the ER. The only thing that helps is IV pain meds. They gave me 4 different shots once to where I could barely stand never mind walk and I could still feel that stone. Suffered in pain with a pair the size of dice for about 12 years before that surgery in 2019.

Now every time I have any type of pain in that area I instantly think kidney stone. But supposedly they say Im clear. I drink more now and try to drink water too.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I am lucky in that I haven't had them for 15+ years now, but there was a stretch of four or five years where I got them a few times. I blame the extremely calcified tap water from where I lived in France for a year. As the doctor and others have said, water, water, water. You don't want to get into the situation I had once where you run out of urine when it's only half-way down the pipe, so to speak...

[Daehawk]

I am lucky in that I haven't had them for 15+ years now, but there was a stretch of four or five years where I got them a few times. I blame the extremely calcified tap water from where I lived in France for a year. As the doctor and others have said, water, water, water. You don't want to get into the situation I had once where you run out of urine when it's only half-way down the pipe, so to speak...

Ive had that happen. Was in my wiener when I ran out of water hehe. I drank a lot of water and had to drive to pick up my wife back then. It was like having an angry wasp in my pee pee'r.

And people wonder why I hate this world

[Kraken]

Had a couple of episodes of them. Bad news, the hydrocodone doesn't work. The only thing that works is the shot. In my case the kidney stones came because I stopped drinking iced tea. That doesn't sound right I know but as soon as I started drinking it again the stones went away.

My Mexican coworkers all swear by drinking more beer to prevent kidney stones.

I've read that, too. I drink oceans of beer and have never had a stone, so QED.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I have also heard that any carbonated drink is good because it can break up the stones.

[Blackhawk]

Geeze, Brian. Now I feel bad for getting you framed for murder last night.

[Daehawk]

I have also heard that any carbonated drink is good because it can break up the stones.

Ive heard the opposite.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Whenever kidney stones are mentioned, it always brings me back to Al Swearengen's scenes of excruciating agony on HBO's Deadwood.

Anyway, here's hoping modern medicine can provide you with more adequate relief than he. Get well soon.

[Max Peck]

Some carbonated beverages apparently contain oxalate, so I avoid them. The advice I am going with is to continue drinking a lot of water and dope it with lemon juice. Apparently the citrate helps to prevent stones from forming in the first place.

I was lucky, in that while the initial wave of pain was bad enough that it made me vomit for the first time in 25+ years, I didn't need anything stronger than Advil for pain management. I was also given a 2-week scrip for Flomax, and the stone passed before that was up. Still, it was bad enough that I've made significant dietary adjustments to forestall the next round. From what the urologist told me, there will almost certainly be a next time, but whether it comes in the next year or the next decade is largely up to how seriously I take the dietary recommendations.

[Daehawk]

Whenever kidney stones are mentioned, it always brings me back to Al Swearengen's scenes of excruciating agony on HBO's Deadwood.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The first time I had what I now believe to be kidney stones, I was diagnosed with appendicitis instead. That pain was gone after surgery (though it was replaced with something arguably equally horrific) and so we all thought it must have been appendicitis. However, when the pathologists ran the test on the appendix, they didn't find any markers of appendicitis. It wasn't until a few years later when I definitely had kidney stones that I realized the pain was exactly the same as when I was diagnosed with appendicitis. The stones must have passed through the catheter while I was under.

[gilraen]

I have also heard that any carbonated drink is good because it can break up the stones.

Ive heard the opposite.

I think I read that some soft drinks (of the non-cola variety) contain something that reduces the risk of kidney stones in itself, but fructose and other sweeteners in that same drink will undo any benefit that you may gain. Colas are just outright bad for kidney stones.

I worked at an amusement park for a couple of years, and we were "management" so we could walk around the park and grab sodas for free from any food stand or restaurant. One of the guys drank soda all day and at the end of summer ended up in the ER with kidney stones at the ripe old age of 24. For the rest of the time that I worked with him, he did not touch another soft drink.

[ImLawBoy]

I have also heard that any carbonated drink is good because it can break up the stones.

Ive heard the opposite.

I think I read that some soft drinks (of the non-cola variety) contain something that reduces the risk of kidney stones in itself, but fructose and other sweeteners in that same drink will undo any benefit that you may gain. Colas are just outright bad for kidney stones.

This is why I exclusively drink champagne.

[stimpy]

I am the proud birth Father of this lovely little thing......



I call him Earl

[stimpy]

Had a couple of episodes of them. Bad news, the hydrocodone doesn't work. The only thing that works is the shot. In my case the kidney stones came because I stopped drinking iced tea. That doesn't sound right I know but as soon as I started drinking it again the stones went away.

My Mexican coworkers all swear by drinking more beer to prevent kidney stones.

I've read that, too. I drink oceans of beer and have never had a stone, so QED.

Alcohol dries up the kidney and promotes dehydration, so it actually helps the formation of kidney stones.
Water and cranberry juice, my friends.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

My doctor recommended that I stop drinking ice-tea (a hard thing to do in the south) and possibly avoid broccoli. I have since switched to almost exclusively drink water but otherwise didn't change my diet much and haven't had a kidney stone in ~18 years (knock on wood!).

[Anonymous Bosch]

I would tread carefully in terms of following generic kidney stone fluid and dietary guidance from anyone other than your own medical professionals. Because as this University of Chicago article observes, there are a variety of different types of kidney stone. And each kind of kidney stone has its own ways, and proper treatment necessitates knowing exactly which type you're dealing with.

[Daehawk]

On a side note: I think it was Tora that the vet used to give our little chihuahua in the olden days. That stuff zonked him good. Before we would get up to leave he would have this stoned look on his little face and be moving slowly looking around. They hit me with it once in the hospital and I found out he was doing fine when he looked that way. Gave my wife a drip of it I think when she would press a button.

EDIT: Come to think of it maybe it wasn't toradol or tortagesic...but something with a similar name. Sure knocked your socks off.

[Brian]

Well that was a much needed nap.

Thanks for the input everybody. After the nap I'm feeling a bit better and at least somewhat rested.
Pain is still there but it's livable for now. I'm sure it will come back soon enough.

What about coffee? I've seen tea and soda mentioned but no coffee yet and that's my go-to drink. Coffee and water and the occasional soda if we go out to eat but mostly coffee. On average I probably drink 2-3 cups in the morning and another 2-3 cups in the evening.

[coopasonic]

The advice I am going with is to continue drinking a lot of water and dope it with lemon juice. Apparently the citrate helps to prevent stones from forming in the first place.

My doctor gave me the same advice and *knock on wood* I think it's been close to a decade now.

[LordMortis]

Well that was a much needed nap.

Thanks for the input everybody. After the nap I'm feeling a bit better and at least somewhat rested.
Pain is still there but it's livable for now. I'm sure it will come back soon enough.

What about coffee? I've seen tea and soda mentioned but no coffee yet and that's my go-to drink. Coffee and water and the occasional soda if we go out to eat but mostly coffee. On average I probably drink 2-3 cups in the morning and another 2-3 cups in the evening.

Caffeine is a nono until it passes. After that talk to your followup urologist. Water, water, water, and more water.

[naednek]

I am the proud birth Father of this lovely little thing......



I call him Earl

How does that even come out of the hole. Holy shit.

[Daehawk]

How does that even come out of the hole. Holy shit.

Like a bullet.

[Anonymous Bosch]

What about coffee? I've seen tea and soda mentioned but no coffee yet and that's my go-to drink. Coffee and water and the occasional soda if we go out to eat but mostly coffee. On average I probably drink 2-3 cups in the morning and another 2-3 cups in the evening.

I suggest doing some homework. Have a butcher's at the University of Chicago's Kidney Stone Guide Book.

But in terms of coffee-drinking (assuming you're not referring to coffee-flavoured milkshakes), this section on how to get a variety of fluids if you have kidney stones suggests there isn't too much to worry about with coffee if you're not overdoing it. But as always, it's only prudent to discuss it with your own physician.

Wake Up and Sip The Coffee
I drink one cup of coffee every morning. Not the 72 ounce cup you can get at Dunkin’ Doughnuts, just one true cup. I need it, I love it, and I will not do without it. There is no doubt that coffee can contain considerable oxalate. Instant coffee has even more oxalate per gram than the regular coffees. The question is whether drinking coffee increases urine oxalate, which has not been determined.

I suspect it does not because coffee drinkers have a lower, not a higher kidney stone risk. In the same prospective study I quoted for sodas, caffeinated coffee drinkers had a 26% statistical reduction in new stone onset compared to people who did not drink coffee and there was a graded reduction in risk as the amount increased from none, through 1 cup per week, up to 1 cup or more every day. The decaf drinkers had a 16% reduction.

These coffee drinkers were not using coffee as a form of stone prevention. I presume they used it as a pleasurable beverage. So there is something about coffee drinking that offered a protection.

The issue is therefore not about kidney stone risk but about how much coffee people should drink every day. That is something you need to discuss with your physician. But, I cannot imagine anyone will use coffee, even iced coffee, as more than a small fraction of the many liters of fluid needed daily for stone prevention.

[Max Peck]

I would tread carefully in terms of following generic kidney stone fluid and dietary guidance from anyone other than your own medical professionals. Because as this University of Chicago article observes, there are a variety of different types of kidney stone. And each kind of kidney stone has its own ways, and proper treatment necessitates knowing exactly which type you're dealing with.

Agreed. I had a calcium oxalate stone, which means I need to avoid oxalate rich foods. I've had to give up a lot of stuff that I really enjoy and/or that are otherwise healthy aside from the oxalate content. The advice about adding lemon juice to my water to increase my citrate intake came straight from the urologist. The only thing I've scrounged from the internet at large has been additional data on oxalate content of foods, since the information provided in the hand-out from the urologist was limited to a small number of examples of things to avoid.

Coffee was a little confusing to me. It is a source of oxalate to some degree, but some sources recommend avoiding it outright while others say that instant coffee has a high level of oxalate while brewed coffee has lower levels. I do drink a moderate amount (1 or 2 servings a day) of espresso-brewed caffè Americano, and I've mitigated the impact by getting in the habit of stirring in a couple of teaspoons of dehydrated skim milk. One of the things I was told is that consuming calcium-containing food along with oxalate-containing food helps because some of the oxalate will bind to the calcium in the gut and it will be excreted in feces instead of combining in the kidneys.

[Daehawk]

Yep if you eat oxalate then take in calcium foods. NOT calcium supplements. Mine are also calcium oxalate. So hard that blasting couldn't shatter them.

[The Meal]

First I'm seeing of this Brian. Really sorry to hear the news.

Each of my biological brothers had kidney stones by their early 40s. So far I've been stone free (knock on calcium carbonate). I do not wish to join your club.

[Blackhawk]

I don't know anybody in my family that's had them, knock on wood. My biggest risk is probably almond milk, which has both oxalate and calcium, followed by peanut butter. I rarely eat spinach, green peppers, cola, or chocolate, and never eat beans or beets. I also drink a lot of green tea, which studies have shown to have a beneficial effect on the process, so between the lack of a family history and avoiding a lot of the worst foods, I hope I'll avoid this particular pain.

[Kraken]

Had a couple of episodes of them. Bad news, the hydrocodone doesn't work. The only thing that works is the shot. In my case the kidney stones came because I stopped drinking iced tea. That doesn't sound right I know but as soon as I started drinking it again the stones went away.

My Mexican coworkers all swear by drinking more beer to prevent kidney stones.

I've read that, too. I drink oceans of beer and have never had a stone, so QED.

Alcohol dries up the kidney and promotes dehydration, so it actually helps the formation of kidney stones.
Water and cranberry juice, my friends.

This is one study, among Finnish male smokers...but FWIW it found that "Beer consumption was inversely associated with risk of kidney stones; each bottle of beer consumed per day was estimated to reduce risk by 40% (RR = 0.60, 95% CI 0.47-0.76). In conclusion, the authors observed that magnesium intake and beer consumption were inversely associated and fiber intake was directly associated with risk of kidney stones."

It confirms what I want to believe, and is therefore true. If one bottle reduces one's risk by 40%, then a 4-pack ought to convey immunity.

[raydude]

So, I can't stress this enough, having gone through probably the worst case scenario:

1. If given a choice to drink water vs. surgery, always choose to drink water. Drink as if your life depended on it, because, if you don't like pain in your privates it kinda does.

2. So you failed step1 and now you have to have laser surgery. This is a non-invasive procedure where they put you under and push a ureteroscope into you to try to find the stone. Once they find it, they blast it with a laser. Here's the thing. Non-invasive means they don't make a hole in you. They USE AN EXISTING HOLE .

So, given that, try NOT to schedule it on a Friday. Why? Because the surgeon may feel they need to put a stent in you. A stent is a small tube that the surgeon puts in the tube going from your kidney to the bladder, near where the kidney stone was, to keep the passageway from collapsing. I was told by my urulogist friend that my doctor only put the stent in there because my surgery was on Friday and he didn't want anything to happen to me during the weekend (presumably spoiling his weekend).

3. Waking up from surgery you may feel a lot of pain in your urethra. That's because someone tried to push something much larger and harder than pee the WRONG WAY to get at the kidney stone. In fact, you may see a lot of bleeding down there. You may feel the urge to pee. Don't panic when you see blood coming out when you pee. That's also apparently normal. Also, it HURTS LIKE HELL because again, your delicates have been bruised. Get ready, it will hurt like hell for at least a week. Every single time you pee.

4. So now you had laser surgery and you woke up to find out you have a stent in you. Guess what? A few weeks later that stent has to come out. What the doctor does is leave a string tied to the stent. The doctor then has to go in, find the string, then pull. That's cool, you say. Put me under then I wake up on the other side, right? WRONG! They do it while you are awake! You lie down on a reclined chair. They try to push local anesthesia into your penis - which doesn't hurt that much but feels incredibly weird. Like peeing in reverse. Then they go in with a scope. You have several people in the room with you, including a big guy who presumably is there to hold you down in case you panic and decide you can live with a stent forever.

If you're lucky you have a wife with you who doesn't faint because she's a nurse (THANK GOD FOR HER). You're holding her hand for dear life, saying "This is not right, this is not right. This is the 21st century, why the hell is there not a better way?"

Once they find the string they don't give you a chance to steel yourself (probably because it's better that you don't tense up) and yank that sucker out. Then at the end you have the opportunity to look at the stent. I didn't, and I still haven't looked at the pictures my wife took of it.

And oh yeah, your penis still hurts when you pee and will do so for at least a week.

So in short - DRINK THAT DAMN WATER!

[Scuzz]

I have had my gall bladder out after passing a few gall stones and that was painful but from what I gather nothing like Kidney stones. I would not wish something worse than gall stones on anyone.

[Daehawk]

I remember that one loooooong pull when they took that first stent out my wiener.

The second one they pulled one looooong pull out my back. For a week or so I peed out my back...well the hole in my back. edit: and my wiener.

[Smoove_B]

For a week or so I peed out my back...well the hole in my back. edit: and my wiener.

This is now one of my most favorite sentences ever typed on OO.

Sorry to hear about your kidney stones, Brian. I don't have any personal experience but anyone that has related theirs has described them in the most horrific, painful ways imaginable. Here's hoping you can figure out how to never need to deal with that again. However, if you do, the sentence above is the new high-bar.

[RunningMn9]

I have had my gall bladder out after passing a few gall stones and that was painful but from what I gather nothing like Kidney stones. I would not wish something worse than gall stones on anyone.

Gall stones (for me at least) were a whole different kind of pain than kidney stones. A lot of pressure in the upper chest, radiating out to the spine, but as soon as the stone passed, it was like it never happened.

When my gallbladder detonated, that was a different story. That was the worst pain I’ve ever experienced and caused vomiting and hallucinations. But that was because I basically had appendicitis, except the gallbladder version.

I imagine kidney stones are still worse than that, and I don’t care to find out.

[Scuzz]

I have had my gall bladder out after passing a few gall stones and that was painful but from what I gather nothing like Kidney stones. I would not wish something worse than gall stones on anyone.

Gall stones (for me at least) were a whole different kind of pain than kidney stones. A lot of pressure in the upper chest, radiating out to the spine, but as soon as the stone passed, it was like it never happened.

When my gallbladder detonated, that was a different story. That was the worst pain I’ve ever experienced and caused vomiting and hallucinations. But that was because I basically had appendicitis, except the gallbladder version.

I imagine kidney stones are still worse than that, and I don’t care to find out.

I got my gall bladder out real quick. I think I had a couple attacks and had a doctor who was right on it. I have also had my appendix out, which I recognized as a problem early because, at least for me, it manifested like a gall bladder attack and so I knew something was going on.