MLB 2021 Post Season

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:28 am

It's really tough to give Trevor Bauer the benefit of the doubt.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:30 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:25 am Choking someone is assault. Anyone with half a brain would not choke someone even if they asked.

There is definitely a significant segment of the population that disagrees with this. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:39 am

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:12 am
Lorini wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:19 am From the LA Times

"Jon Fetterolf, an attorney representing Bauer, issued a statement Tuesday that said in part: “We have messages that show [the woman] repeatedly asking for ‘rough’ sexual encounters involving requests to be ‘choked out’ and slapped in the face. … Any allegations that the pair’s encounters were not 100% consensual are baseless, defamatory, and will be refuted to the fullest extent of the law.”"

If this is true then what's the decision? Can a woman repeatedly ask to be choked and then say it's assault when she is choked? I honestly don't know.
Strictly speaking, any time a person removes consent, the partner must stop even if they're in the middle of the activity. Of course, at that point absent a witness or video evidence it becomes a "He said, she said" scenario. If there are truly texts indicating consent at some point and a second visit, that would be evidence Bauer could certainly use to try to get reasonable doubt in a criminal case.

It also matters the extent of the injuries. Like even if a woman gives consent to be choked as part of sex, a reasonable person would understand that not to include choking to the degree that they might die.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:41 am

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:30 am
Lorini wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:25 am Choking someone is assault. Anyone with half a brain would not choke someone even if they asked.
There is definitely a significant segment of the population that disagrees with this. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

Also as a criminal / civil suit issue, consent is usually baked into the definition of assault - something like touching someone else aggressively without consent (hence why tackling someone in a football game is not assault).

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:46 pm

Holy crap the Braves just dropped 3 runs on deGrom in the 1st inning. The sky is falling now.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:47 pm

Sounds like Bauer is on track to make his next start Sunday in DC (I'll be at that game).

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:34 am

deGrom ended with 14ks and still an era under 1 but the Mets lost because they can't hit.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:34 am

pr0ner wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:26 am
Octavious wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:22 am Problem is that this isn't the NFL. They can't just dump him without paying his remaining salary.
I would imagine there's some kind of morality clause in his contract. However, the league can suspend him without pay for however long they choose to if need be.

No player would sign a contract with a morality clause that gets activated on accusation of wrongdoing alone. Until this plays out in court or an MLB investigation finds he did something wrong, he's on the Dodger payroll unless Bauer agrees to leave.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:35 am

Octavious wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:46 pm Holy crap the Braves just dropped 3 runs on deGrom in the 1st inning. The sky is falling now.

I'd like to think this is the Braves waking up for the season but they'll probably go and drop 3 out of 4 from one of the bottom dwellers.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:35 am

Double Post

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:20 am

LA Times ran an article by their Pulitzer Prize winning columnist that asks MLB to not allow him to pitch for his next start. They felt that a one week suspension was merited, so that the investigation can play out, given the seriousness of the accusation. The Dodgers can't stop his start on their own the collective bargaining agreement says that only MLB can intervene in domestic violence cases.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:24 am

That's a pretty strong union if the coach can't even decide who will pitch. But pitchers get demoted to the bullpen all the time, sometimes on a whim or hunch.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:31 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:20 am LA Times ran an article by their Pulitzer Prize winning columnist that asks MLB to not allow him to pitch for his next start. They felt that a one week suspension was merited, so that the investigation can play out, given the seriousness of the accusation. The Dodgers can't stop his start on their own the collective bargaining agreement says that only MLB can intervene in domestic violence cases.

Is one week enough to conduct an investigation of this? I would think a suspension sufficient to let the investigation play out would be months at least.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:37 am

This is one of those cases where some people want instant justice/consequences where there should absolutely be no reasonable chance of it happening.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:38 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:24 am That's a pretty strong union if the coach can't even decide who will pitch. But pitchers get demoted to the bullpen all the time, sometimes on a whim or hunch.

It's only for domestic violence cases, not at all times. (which I stated?)

Here's the article https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/ ... r-plaschke

Don't know if you folks can read it though.

Here is what I was talking about:

"While police say Bauer is under investigation for felony assault, no arrests have been made, no charges have been filed and he is obviously constitutionally deserving of the presumption of innocence. His agent argues text messages the Los Angeles Times have not authenticated indicate she asked to be choked and hit. But MLB doesn’t operate like a court of law. While the Dodgers are prohibited by the league’s collectively bargained domestic violence policy from taking any action, MLB can place Bauer on paid administrative leave for seven days while it investigates, with the possibility of extending that time with the cooperation of the union."

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:44 pm

Bauer was just placed on administrative leave by MLB.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:48 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:44 pm Bauer was just placed on administrative leave by MLB.

So his article worked. Good!

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:53 pm

Ya considering the charges it would be insane to put him on the field right now. In other news it looks like the subway series could get rained out twice. That may be in the best interest of the Mets as they suck.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:48 pm

It's not just the charges but basically he's admitted to choking her. Professional athletes need to be aware of what's right to do and what's wrong, and choking someone is straight up wrong. From MLB/Dodgers point of view it shouldn't matter if she asked for it or not. That should be unacceptable behavior.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:53 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:48 pm It's not just the charges but basically he's admitted to choking her. Professional athletes need to be aware of what's right to do and what's wrong, and choking someone is straight up wrong. From MLB/Dodgers point of view it shouldn't matter if she asked for it or not. That should be unacceptable behavior.

I just have to point out again that this just isn't reality. Some consenting adults very much are okay/enjoy this. Not saying that is the case for Bauer, just that you can't make blanket policies against it.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:59 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:53 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:48 pm It's not just the charges but basically he's admitted to choking her. Professional athletes need to be aware of what's right to do and what's wrong, and choking someone is straight up wrong. From MLB/Dodgers point of view it shouldn't matter if she asked for it or not. That should be unacceptable behavior.
I just have to point out again that this just isn't reality. Some consenting adults very much are okay/enjoy this. Not saying that is the case for Bauer, just that you can't make blanket policies against it.

As professionals you absolutely can. I'm not saying no one should be able to be choked, if folks want to to do it's up to them. But if you are a professional and your contract/organization/whatever says no violence to women then you can't do that. Period. If I were a man and I did what Bauer did and was working at JPL I'd no longer be working there. Absolutely.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:39 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:59 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:53 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:48 pm It's not just the charges but basically he's admitted to choking her. Professional athletes need to be aware of what's right to do and what's wrong, and choking someone is straight up wrong. From MLB/Dodgers point of view it shouldn't matter if she asked for it or not. That should be unacceptable behavior.
I just have to point out again that this just isn't reality. Some consenting adults very much are okay/enjoy this. Not saying that is the case for Bauer, just that you can't make blanket policies against it.
As professionals you absolutely can. I'm not saying no one should be able to be choked, if folks want to to do it's up to them. But if you are a professional and your contract/organization/whatever says no violence to women then you can't do that. Period. If I were a man and I did what Bauer did and was working at JPL I'd no longer be working there. Absolutely.

The rub is that it's not violence against any one until it is, which doesn't make it very useful.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:50 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:39 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:59 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:53 pm
Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:48 pm It's not just the charges but basically he's admitted to choking her. Professional athletes need to be aware of what's right to do and what's wrong, and choking someone is straight up wrong. From MLB/Dodgers point of view it shouldn't matter if she asked for it or not. That should be unacceptable behavior.
I just have to point out again that this just isn't reality. Some consenting adults very much are okay/enjoy this. Not saying that is the case for Bauer, just that you can't make blanket policies against it.
As professionals you absolutely can. I'm not saying no one should be able to be choked, if folks want to to do it's up to them. But if you are a professional and your contract/organization/whatever says no violence to women then you can't do that. Period. If I were a man and I did what Bauer did and was working at JPL I'd no longer be working there. Absolutely.
The rub is that it's not violence against any one until it is, which doesn't make it very useful.

It gives them the ability to make arbitrary decisions, that's what it does and that's what it's supposed to do. It's unlikely that he has any legal recourse if he's suspended outside of what the union contract provides because he signed said contract.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:30 pm

I know they get paid relatively well, but damn starting the 7th inning with a 3-1 lead and ending the half inning behind 10-3 has got to be hard on a manager.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:17 pm

why couldn't this story have broken last week and be benched against the Giants

I know poor taste, but I'm not being serious. Lets hope it goes through the proper process of a fair trial\investigation.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:18 pm

So since the Cubs no hit the Dodgers they've gone 0-8 and the Dodgers have gone 7-0. Thanks!

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:41 pm

It would be sweet to sweep the Yankees today, but not likely.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:04 pm

Hmm, second base seems farther than I first thought

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:23 pm

Eh I'll take 2 out of 3

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:31 pm

The Dodgers changed their rotation for the rest of the week and announced that Bauer would not be returning to the team after the administrative leave is over.

Noting that "The union could file a grievance if the Dodgers suspend or bench Bauer"

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:48 pm

Uh, wow.

Shohei Ohtani’s power dates back to his international playing days when he hit a homer THROUGH the ROOF of the Tokyo Dome!

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:56 pm

Wow!!!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:18 pm

Does that go through a gap in the dome? Or some netting or something? It looks like it's going through a crack / dividing line of some type.

Pretty amazing.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:29 pm

A quick search indicates the dome roof is a slightly pressurized thin membrane. My guess (also after fining another clip on Youtube which has a reverse view) makes it appear the ball punched through it. I also found a claim Statcast estimated it as a 525 foot home run. I've never even heard of anything like that.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:45 pm

Sure he can hit the ball, but he isn't going to win a Cy Young or anything. This year. And he's no Lou Back with just 10 or so SBs.

And don't talk to me about breaking all of Babe's two-way records. Stuff down a hot dog and a beer between each half inning then let's talk Bambino.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:18 pm

deGrom gave up 2 runs what a loser. Mets somehow won despite themselves. Woo

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:43 pm

Mets now have 7 in a row against the Pirates. If they can't hit in that stretch then it's never going to happen. Took 2-3 from the Brewers which is pretty darn good.

And who the hell created the schedule where they play a team in a 4 game series and then a 3 games series back to back? So weird.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:20 am

I guess the Cubs fans have left the ship but they did finally win a game yesterday

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:53 am

Yeah, it got pretty ugly there. Two nights ago my wife came downstairs and i had the game on and the Cubs were down something like 10-3 and she asked me, "Why do you keep torturing yourself?" I told her the comeback is going to be epic.

At this point, I think it's clear the Cubs are going to be sellers at the deadline, and they've got some good trade bait (if they stay healthy). Kimbrel is back to being dominant, and he has a team option for a reasonable $16M or so, which means he's more than just a short-term rental. If Bryant stays healthy enough to deal he should bring a nice haul given the overall season he's had so far. Javy is and always will be an enigma - he could have an MVP-type second half or he could double up the next closest guy in strikeouts (or both at the same time). He's a plus defender at 2nd, 3rd, and short. And he's just so damn entertaining to watch. Will someone want to take a chance and give the Cubs something valuable for him? Contreras is interesting, as he's under (reasonable) contract for a couple of years, I think. He's not a game changer offensively, although he's better than average for a catcher. He's still got a cannon for an arm and his pitch framing has gone from a liability to an asset over the last couple of years. If I needed bullpen help, I'd also want to take a close look at Chafin and Tepera, who have both been great (although Tepera's on the IL right now).

The one guy I don't see them trading is Rizzo, both because he's not going to get a huge return and he's the face of the franchise (even if still won't get vaccinated). It's possible, but I think he's the least likely of the 2016 guys to get traded.

If the Cubs play this right, they could get the core for the next run at a championship. Or they could just do Cub things and get mediocre talent while trading away the core of 2016.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:06 am

Yesterday I watched Ohtani foul a ball off his right foot, foul a ball off his left knee, then blast his 32nd home run before the All Star break. He is on pace to set the non-steroid record for home runs in a season. And he is not some sulking prima donna, he actually loves the game.