Sport or not sport

[Jaymon]

pulling this away from the olympics thread,.

what is a sport?

I have my own definition.

To be a sport, it has to be an athletic activity, AND, the competitors need to be able to interfere with the other competitors, AND the outcome of the competition has to be plainly visible fact such as most points scored, furthest jumped, highest climbed, etc.


If its an athletic activity, but the competitors are NOT allowed to interfere with each other, then it is a competition, not a sport.
I realize this covers many of the "traditional" olympic sports such as field events and most races. But in those, each individual is merely trying to do their own best. There are many many athletic activities that are difficult to do, require high degrees of precision accuracy, and dedication and most of them are not in the olympics.



If it is an athletic activity and the outcome is determined by a judgement, and not a plainly visible fact, then it is a competition, and not a sport. Figure skating and gymnastics require a great deal of physical ability and long hour of practice, but the winner is a group of folks who may or may not have existing agendas and prejudice. There are other activities not in the olypmics that also require physical and athletic ability, long hours of practice and dedication, and the competitions are determined by judges, but are not included in the olympics.

[Sudy]

Why is this an important distinction? And what's being argued isn't a sport? Skateboarding? Chess? Australian rules football?

Sports is stuff where you move your body and there's a score. League of Legends, for example, is not a sport. Wrist movements do not count. We'll call golf a sport if you don't use a cart. Darts... eh, it's close. Running a marathon is definitely a sport. DDR I would concede is a sport. Professional wrestling isn't a sport, though should be respected as one of the most physically-intensive forms of performance with training regimens as tough as or tougher than many sports.

[Ænima]

If you can do it professionally in slacks, it’s not a sport.

[dbt1949]

If you can do it with one hand it's not a sport.

[Sudy]

I'm not caressing that one lovingly.

[hepcat]

If you do something you can call it a sport.

That’s why I’m a world class napping champion!

[Holman]

Sports is stuff where you move your body and there's a score. [...] Wrist movements do not count.

[Blackhawk]

I like (stolen from Wikipedia),

Sport pertains to any form of competitive physical activity or game[1] that aims to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing enjoyment to participants and, in some cases, entertainment to spectators.

But when it comes down to it, it's the same question about labels we always get.

Is/are [thing(s)] art?

Is [blank] a game?

Is [game] an RPG?

The problem, to me, is that answering these questions often becomes a contest of elitism and the dismissal of things the person defining them personally doesn't enjoy. Video games aren't art because art is dignified and games are toys for children, etc. </ebert>

In the end, archery is archery and basketball is basketball. And if someone calls something a 'sport' and another person doesn't? Does it really matter? Let them have their fun.

[jztemple2]

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”

― Ernest Hemingway

[wonderpug]

I think "sports" general refer to activities involving use of muscles and/or having to go outside. If childhood-to-teenage me would rather stay inside in a dark room playing video games than do the activity, there's a very high chance that activity is a sport.

[Jeff V]

If you can do it with one hand it's not a sport.

So Jim Abbott would render baseball a non-sport?

I think "sports" general refer to activities involving use of muscles and/or having to go outside.

There are plenty of indoor sports (swimming, for example). And boxing or other ass-kicking sports (I realize that these are technically on the cusp...if the ass is properly kicked, there is a definitive result and therefore it's a sport. When there's no winner in the prescribed number of rounds, it falls to a panel of judges and therefore puts it in square non-sports, like gymnastics, ice dancing, and synchronized swimming). And hockey and basketball and ice sweeping I mean curling (which is really a drinking sport so ought to be classified with the likes of bowling and darts). Weightlifting an indoor sport, because it's a competition and it's pretty simple, you either lift the weight or not. It's not a compelling sport, mind you, unless you're in the Philippines at the moment. (a woman weightlifter got their first-ever gold medal, I'm surprised, I thought they'd have had some previously in boxing. Anyway, she's a superstar now).

I also don't want to call anything a sport if children are more physically capable of being the best in the world at something than grown adults. These tend to be judged competitions, like gymnastics and diving, but also something like ski jumping. Speaking of, why are "women's" gymnastics generally the realm of teenagers while men's gymnastics has fully formed people? Is it because of the imbalancing effect of boobies?

To argue with the dead, bullfighting is no more a sport than horseracing or cock fighting. Driving is a skill, not a sport. Bowling, sailing, shooting, archery, and ping-pong are similarly skills, not sports. Rowing might be a sport, but if not if a team has the advantage because they spent $1 million on a high-tech boat while the competition carved theirs out of logs they fell themselves using sharp stones. Mountaineering is an activity and not, as far as I know, a competitive event and therefore not a sport. Can you imagine an Olympic event where there's a race to summit Mt. Everest? What kind of disaster would that be? That would be on par with deep sea diving.

Golf is a skill, not a sport. I actually prefer walking when I golf just so I can pretend I'm working off the beers I drink. Anything that can be done while drinking is not a sport (but can be a challenge!) Next week I'll likely be going to Top Golf to practice golf. That practice generally involves splitting 3 pitchers of beer with my fellow athlete. In general, if old fucks like me can still do something with a high degree of skill (and in golf, I'm not talking myself but the Senior Tour), it's probably not a sport. This is the point where I circle back to the start of the post and point out that Minnie Minoso probably invalidates baseball.

[pr0ner]

So, Jeff, the Ecuadorian woman who won gold today had to have her gold medal winning lift confirmed by judges. Doesn't that mean it's not a sport by your awfully narrow definition?

Also, Gordie Howe played in the NHL in his 50s. Does that mean hockey is not a sport?

[Jeff V]

I did not see that, but if it's a case where judges awarded style points (as opposed to being a referee or official that enforces the rules) then yes, I suppose that would make it a non sport. If they merely enforced the sport's definition of what's a lift, then yes, it is still a sport because the rules are arbitrary and not really subject to biased interpretation.

[pr0ner]

I did not see that, but if it's a case where judges awarded style points (as opposed to being a referee or official that enforces the rules) then yes, I suppose that would make it a non sport. If they merely enforced the sport's definition of what's a lift, then yes, it is still a sport because the rules are arbitrary and not really subject to biased interpretation.

I may not agree with your definition of what makes a sport a sport but I can respect the consistency of your opinion.

[Holman]

The word "sport" in the past has referred to any kind of playing, and not just games/competitions. Having fun at a tavern was "sport." Going for a walk in the garden was "sport." Putting on a dramatic performance was "sport." Pretty much anything that was a diversion from serious labor or provided amusement was "sport."

(Here's the OED for a look at how varied the word has been.)

At some point the term "field sports" came into use for competitive athletic games, and our narrow modern usage derives from that.

There's no at-root meaningful distinction between sports and other games. I think the only reason we think the definition matters is that calling something a "real sport" justifies all the money/status/fandom we invest in it.

[Jaymann]

[Max Peck]

I think the only reason we think the definition matters is that calling something a "real sport" justifies all the money/status/fandom we invest in it.

Hence competitive video gaming being rebranded as esports.

And in case anyone missed it, the IOC even sponsored an Olympic-licensed esports event.

Olympic Virtual Series: What a Grand Finale it was

The Olympic Virtual Series Grand Finale showcased the final events from all five virtual sports in a 10.5-hour broadcast, with everything from the incredibly thrilling Motor sports and Baseball finals to the in-depth analysis of the mastermind tactics of the Sailing finals.

Did you miss it, or do you simply want to re-watch? Have a look and enjoy the winners’ reactions, replays of the events, and much more.

[coopasonic]

I'll take useless distinctions for $100 Alex LeVar.

[JCC]

Fear not! The late, great, noble sage George Carlin answered this question definitively decades ago. Any other arguments are rendered moot!

Edit: I rewatched the video after posting this. I will disclose that in this clip (I believe from the 80s) Carlin does use a slur for homosexual men. I know for sure he wasn't homophobic and this was a pretty acceptable derogatory term in the era it was used (and it's not really being used to describe a homosexual in this context). But, I just thought I would warn everyone before they watch it.

Video

[Jeff V]

dbt ought to back me up on this because he was there too, but the ancient Greeks were about athletic superiority and not stylistic. And they also didn't care about homosexuality, in fact they embraced it. Didn't matter who you were if you were the best athlete for the sport.

[Blackhawk]

I think the only reason we think the definition matters is that calling something a "real sport" justifies all the money/status/fandom we invest in it.

Elitism and ego. If I do a manly muscles-and-bruises psuedo-combat thing and feel special because of it, some skinny nerd doesn't get to use the same word as me, because then I'm not as special anymore. And them using that word is suddenly threatening to my image, and the automatic reaction is to go on the defensive - which involves denying that anything that doesn't match my image is legitimate.