Trump's Full Court Press on healthcare

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:42 pm

Holman wrote:Trump thinks he knows the end goal: It's scoring a win over Democrats.

"The best thing we can do, politically speaking, is let Obamacare explode."

Can you imagine Barack Obama saying something like this if the well-being--the health, the very lives--of Americans were on the line?

Of course not he knows better than to say what he really thinks.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:21 pm

Never change Newt, never change.

“No one should be confused.Obamacare repeal if it passes will be Trump’s triumph. He personally intervened to save bill when it faced defeat.”

— Newt Gingrich, at 7:27 am.

“Why would you schedule a vote on a bill that is at 17 percent approval? Have we forgotten everything Reagan taught us?”

— Gingrich, at 2:36 pm.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:27 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I need follow-up on the gold-medal level of mental gymnastics it takes to blame this on the Democrats.

I think they've been using the excuse for so long that they literally don't know what else to say.

(That goes both ways)

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:54 pm

Rip wrote:
Holman wrote:Drumpf thinks he knows the end goal: It's scoring a win over Democrats.

"The best thing we can do, politically speaking, is let Obamacare explode."

Can you imagine Barack Obama saying something like this if the well-being--the health, the very lives--of Americans were on the line?
Of course not he knows better than to say what he really thinks.

It is also called competence: the ability to do something successfully or efficiently.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:13 pm

He is such a piece of shit.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:26 pm

"Watching Paul Ryan fail is like watching Duke lose, except people stay alive because of it."

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:48 am

Great piece by David Frum talking about some of the big picture elements of the HC debate.

Whatever else the 2016 election has done, it has emancipated Republicans from one of their own worst self-inflicted blind spots. Health care may not be a human right, but the lack of universal health coverage in a wealthy democracy is a severe, unjustifiable, and unnecessary human wrong. As Americans lift this worry from their fellow citizens, they’ll discover that they have addressed some other important problems too. They’ll find that they have removed one of the most important barriers to entrepreneurship, because people with bright ideas will fear less to quit the jobs through which they get their health care. They’ll find they have improved the troubled lives of the white working class succumbing at earlier ages from preventable deaths of despair. They’ll find that they have equalized the life chances of Americans of different races. They’ll find that they have discouraged workplace discrimination against women, older Americans, the disabled, and other employees with higher expected health-care costs. They’ll find that their people become less alienated from a country that has overcome at last one of the least attractive manifestations of American exceptionalism—and joined the rest of the civilized world in ameliorating and alleviating our common human vulnerability to illness and pain.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:06 am

Yes, I read that today too. Great article.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:58 am

Watching the GOP fracture encourages me. The Democrats are largely irrelevant for the next 2-4 years, and possibly beyond if Republican efforts to establish one-party rule are successful...so whatever victories liberals enjoy in the meantime are going to depend on Republican infighting. This was welcome evidence that they aren't unified in goose-stepping to the dark side -- if they're going to rule rather than merely obstruct, their so-called moderates will have to become more prominent.

It's a slim hope, but hey, it's something.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:00 pm

That quote from Frum's piece has been my angle for years. Our healthcare system has been holding us back. Especially compared to our peers. Freeing people from worrying about HC and allowing them to focus on other things would be true freedom in many senses. And that doesn't mean we don't find ways to discourage smoking, obesity, etc.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:15 pm

Timing

Basketball fans were given a dose of alternative facts as a number of pre-bought ads praising Republicans for repealing Obamacare aired on local TV stations during Friday night games.
...
"Republicans are keeping their promise with a new plan for better health care," a voice-over inaccurately booms in the generic ad, which displays pictures of smiling doctors and patients as upbeat rock music thumps in the background.
...
The ads, which were produced by the conservative American Action Network PAC, urged constituents to thank their Republican congressmen and women for "keeping" their promises and "replacing the Affordable Care Act with the better health care you deserve."
...
At least four such ads ran during basketball games on Republican-adjacent TV markets, thanking Reps. Barbara Comstock (R-Va.), David Young (R-Iowa), David Valadao (R-Calif.) and Will Hurd (R-Tex.), according to Deadspin.

As of early Saturday, another eight identical ads remained on the American Action Network's YouTube page.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:32 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Timing

AHAHAHAHAHA The schadenfreude is almost too much.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:59 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Timing

Basketball fans were given a dose of alternative facts as a number of pre-bought ads praising Republicans for repealing Obamacare aired on local TV stations during Friday night games.
...
"Republicans are keeping their promise with a new plan for better health care," a voice-over inaccurately booms in the generic ad, which displays pictures of smiling doctors and patients as upbeat rock music thumps in the background.
...
The ads, which were produced by the conservative American Action Network PAC, urged constituents to thank their Republican congressmen and women for "keeping" their promises and "replacing the Affordable Care Act with the better health care you deserve."
...
At least four such ads ran during basketball games on Republican-adjacent TV markets, thanking Reps. Barbara Comstock (R-Va.), David Young (R-Iowa), David Valadao (R-Calif.) and Will Hurd (R-Tex.), according to Deadspin.

As of early Saturday, another eight identical ads remained on the American Action Network's YouTube page.

I've had that pop up before all sorts of Youtube videos, but never had the stomach to watch it to the end.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:00 pm

So now Trump has opened the door to negotiating with the democrats (provided they come crawling to him) to improve/correct Obamacare cause even though he did everything he could to blame this on the democrats he now seems to understand that that is his only path to healthcare reform and keeping one of his campaign promises. Maybe just maybe he is realizing just how little influence he truly has. This guy is known as a deal maker so maybe he realizes to make deals you have to compromise and that his GOP brothers aren't interested in any of that.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:35 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:So now Trump has opened the door to negotiating with the democrats (provided they come crawling to him) to improve/correct Obamacare cause even though he did everything he could to blame this on the democrats he now seems to understand that that is his only path to healthcare reform and keeping one of his campaign promises. Maybe just maybe he is realizing just how little influence he truly has. This guy is known as a deal maker so maybe he realizes to make deals you have to compromise and that his GOP brothers aren't interested in any of that.

Well, I can't stand Trump but if he's willing to work to shore up Obamacare rather than causing it to or letting it crater then great, more power to him. I'm more interested in getting people the help they need and if Trump gets a few kudos out of it, then I'm ok with that.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:36 pm

Ditto that. I don't believe it for a second, but I'd love to be around g.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:47 pm

Absolutely, it's the results that matter. Give the ACA a tuneup and rename it Trumpcare. Everybody wins. Well, everybody except the right wing, and they hate everything.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:50 pm

Kraken wrote:Absolutely, it's the results that matter. Give the ACA a tuneup and rename it Trumpcare. Everybody wins.

I'd be fine with this.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:52 pm

I'm starting to worry about how long it will take to make the eventual new healthcare website functional. Will this one take longer than WW2 also? That swamp seems to need totally drained.

In other news I'm considering getting health insurance in Ecuador, Thailand, or Malaysia.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:00 pm

Your joke would work if there was a new health care plan. But Trumpcare lost. You should probably keep up with the news.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:29 pm

stessier wrote:
Kraken wrote:Absolutely, it's the results that matter. Give the ACA a tuneup and rename it Trumpcare. Everybody wins.
I'd be fine with this.

That was kinda the hope way back when. The hope faded before February began. I'd be ecstatic to see it but it looks like Trump is in Ryan's corner and Ryan is an bad person.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:07 pm

LordMortis wrote:
stessier wrote:
Kraken wrote:Absolutely, it's the results that matter. Give the ACA a tuneup and rename it Trumpcare. Everybody wins.
I'd be fine with this.
That was kinda the hope way back when. The hope faded before February began. I'd be ecstatic to see it but it looks like Trump is in Ryan's corner and Ryan is an bad person.

OTOH, everyone is saying that Bannon hates Ryan, so Ryan probably can't count on having Trump's support forever. Sad.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:31 am

Did neither of you see Trump's tweet telling everyone to watch Fox at 9 tonight?

Doing this manually from mobile, hope it works.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:46 am

tjg_marantz wrote:Did neither of you see Trump's tweet telling everyone to watch Fox at 9 tonight?

Doing this manually from mobile, hope it works.

and the linked tweet:

https://twitter.com/judgejeanine/status ... 6413443072

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:05 am

Thanks

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Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:08 am

Is this yet another surrogate?

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Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:12 am

Paraphrasing: Not Drumpf's fault. No one could have expected a completely inexperienced, unprepared, semiliterate fraud to understand how legislation works and evil Ryan took this poor man that every American trusts for a ride. For shame, Ryan.

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Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:39 am

Talk about a nasty woman. The hate flows strongly in this one.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:53 am

I don't have the link handy, but the Maureen Dowd op-ed in the failing NYTimes this morning was a thing of beauty.

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:23 am

RunningMn9 wrote:I don't have the link handy, but the Maureen Dowd op-ed in the failing NYTimes this morning was a thing of beauty.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/25/opin ... collection

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:23 am

RunningMn9 wrote:I don't have the link handy, but the Maureen Dowd op-ed in the failing NYTimes this morning was a thing of beauty.

Here you go

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:38 am

Kraken wrote:
Holman wrote:Trump thinks he knows the end goal: It's scoring a win over Democrats.

"The best thing we can do, politically speaking, is let Obamacare explode."

Can you imagine Barack Obama saying something like this if the well-being--the health, the very lives--of Americans were on the line?
Hypothetically speaking, if the Republicans do nothing to help or hinder healthcare policy over the next 2-4 years, what are the odds that the ACA really will collapse under its own weight? (It's succeeding reasonably well in MA, where we had Romneycare before it, but I know it's struggling in some of the failed red states.)

Depends on the spin. If they can convince enough people that debt from other stuff is due to "Obamacare", bullshit will win.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:09 pm

Wow you guys are optimistic. Why do you think Trump or the Repubs are interested in now suddenly fixing the issues with Obamacare? A. They don't give a shit about non-covered Americans. B. Trump doesn't care about anything but his image of winning.

Just don't see any desire on their part to try to better something with Obamas name on it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:17 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:Just don't see any desire on their part to try to better something with Obamas name on it.

Particularly when they can continue to get political mileage out of saying they're doing everything they can to repeal it. Vice President Pence was in West Virginia yesterday and commented to people that attended a "listening session", the administration was doing everything they could do to "end the Obamacare nightmare". Not even 24 hours after they failed to hold a vote, and already the spin has started.

Bonus: Ronald and Nancy Reagan. These people actually exist.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:21 pm

The answer to your question is B). If Trump cares about nothing but his image of winning, than his best strategy now is to come up with something that would win? And the best chance of that is something that makes incremental changes to the ACA in a way that he can pretend to be the savior.

I've seen more than a couple of Congressional Republicans seem to realize that governing is hard, and that maybe they'd have better success working with Democrats than the douchenozzles in the "freedom" caucus.

I do expect Ryan to lose his speakership in the near future because he's been revealed as a fraud. His claim to fame was that he's a policy wonk. Clearly he's not. And if he isn't that, what is he?

Of course, the shit storm that's brewing over Russia threatens all of that. Today's revelation was that in addition to Flynn meeting and doing the bidding of the Turkish govt, Devin Nunes was also present (not sure if it was the same meeting where they discussed illegally snatching the Turkish cleric from PA and whisking him back to Turkey to be "tried" and murdered or not though).

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:26 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:Wow you guys are optimistic. Why do you think Trump or the Repubs are interested in now suddenly fixing the issues with Obamacare? A. They don't give a shit about non-covered Americans. B. Trump doesn't care about anything but his image of winning.

Just don't see any desire on their part to try to better something with Obamas name on it.

Yeah, this was all about a trillion dollar tax cut for the 1%. I've read arguments tying that into their next priority, a massive tax cut across the board. Something about how killing Obamacare would have enabled them to pass a permanent cut with just 50 votes in the Senate, whereas making it permanent will instead require 60 votes with the Obamacare taxes and spending left intact. It was a complicated mashup of Senate rules and fake accounting that I didn't really understand, except that they needed to kill healthcare in order to get their real priority through. Somehow, failing to do that means they can only pass a 10-year sunset tax bill now.

Anyway, their only interest in healthcare is de-funding it.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:28 pm

Quoting Holman's earlier post:

[quote="Holman"]Trump thinks he knows the end goal: It's scoring a win over Democrats.

"The best thing we can do, politically speaking, is let Obamacare explode."

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:54 pm

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:55 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Paraphrasing: Not Drumpf's fault. No one could have expected a completely inexperienced, unprepared, semiliterate fraud to understand how legislation works and evil Ryan took this poor man that every American trusts for a ride. For shame, Ryan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know how popular Bill Maher is around here, but since we're paraphrasing:

Trump's in deep shit. We know how Putin feels about failure.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:13 pm

Ryan's excuse that it's hard moving from an opposition party to governing party is pure horseshit. Maybe they should have tried being a governing party when they controlled congress.