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The Trump Investigation Thread

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by tjg_marantz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:59 pm

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Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 pm

Somehow I don't think Don Jr is holding up as well as HRC.

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The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Scoop20906 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:19 pm

I’m sure he keeps telling them to bring it on.


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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:30 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 pm
Somehow I don't think Don Jr is holding up as well as HRC.
That was the toughest thing I've ever seen. I sometimes feel the hatred for HRC is because she's stronger than the hater and they are afraid of her. Especially Rip.

I'm confident historians will treat her better than the American people did, just as I'm confident Drumpf is going to be infamous. He will replace every reference to Nixon as the butt of every political joke.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Sepiche » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:54 pm

So... this just happened...

Trump Jr. cites attorney-client privilege in not answering panel's questions about discussions with his father
Donald Trump Jr. on Wednesday cited attorney-client privilege to avoid telling lawmakers about a conversation he had with his father, President Donald Trump, after news broke this summer that the younger Trump — and top campaign brass — had met with Russia-connected individuals in Trump Tower during the 2016 campaign.

Though neither Trump Jr. nor the president is an attorney, Trump Jr. told the House Intelligence Committee that there was a lawyer in the room during the discussion, according to the committee’s top Democrat, Rep. Adam Schiff of California. Schiff said he didn’t think it was a legitimate invocation of attorney-client privilege.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:33 pm

Sepiche wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:54 pm
So... this just happened...

Rep. Adam Schiff of California. Schiff said he didn’t think it was a legitimate invocation of attorney-client privilege.
Ya think?

Did they at least get the name of the lawyer?

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:51 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:33 pm
Sepiche wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:54 pm
So... this just happened...

Rep. Adam Schiff of California. Schiff said he didn’t think it was a legitimate invocation of attorney-client privilege.
Ya think?

Did they at least get the name of the lawyer?
I'll bet good rubles it was Natalia Veselnitskaya...

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:55 pm

If I were a lawyer (or doctor!) I'd walk around listening in on random conversations, then complain about privilege every time someone tried later to talk about the details of the conversation.

I have nothing but a vague idea about how attorney-client privilege works, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't just turn on because a lawyer is nearby. Also, the privilege only applies to conversations between the client and the attorney, I've always assumed. How is talking to your dad privileged?

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Jolor » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:20 am

Well, you see, Billy, the kind of privileges that only apply to a certain segment of the population - like lawyers - is what our great country must rise against. Privilege and confidence and privacy of conversations is part of what makes us free. Limiting this privilege to attorneys is just, plain wrong. If I tell my dad something in confidence, it should be held in confidence. I don't want to have to tell some lawyer and sign some complicated forms just because I don't really like Mom's rhubarb pie (just kidding - it's the best) just to spare her feelings. It's as simple as that.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by YellowKing » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:40 am

And that's what makes this whole thing so indefensible.

All I hear from the right is that there's nothing to see here, this is politically motivated, there were no crimes, etc. So if everyone's innocent, why all the lying? Why all the refusals to talk? Why all the pleading the fifth and attorney client privilege? I would think the Trump campaign, being truly innocent, would be more than happy to cooperate fully and clear the air about this giant misunderstanding.

And while they're at it, I'm sure Trump could release his tax returns since there's certainly nothing to hide there either.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Rip » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:50 am

Max Peck wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:54 pm
The White House is denying that Mueller subpoenaed bank records specifically relating to Trump, not that he subpoenaed bank records at all.
I'm hearing the report has been corrected to indicate it wasn't Trump but affiliated person(s) and/or organizations. Word on the street is it was Manafort and some of his dealing, perhaps including Podesta Group.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:31 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:55 pm
If I were a lawyer (or doctor!) I'd walk around listening in on random conversations, then complain about privilege every time someone tried later to talk about the details of the conversation.
That's not how it works. The privilege is client's (or patient's) privilege, and not the attorney's (or doctor's).
GreenGoo wrote:I have nothing but a vague idea about how attorney-client privilege works, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't just turn on because a lawyer is nearby. Also, the privilege only applies to conversations between the client and the attorney, I've always assumed. How is talking to your dad privileged?
If it was a joint discussion among the three parties (Trump, Jr., and the attorney), then it could conceivably be attorney-client privileged. I'm not an expert on this (I really don't represent clients in the traditional sense, so this doesn't apply to me day to day), but I think the attorney would need to be representing both parties for their communications to be privileged. If he's only representing one of them, then the privilege is waived by the presence of (and necessary disclosure to) the unrepresented party. (All of that may be changed by the terms of a non-disclosure agreement that may be in place, but I don't know how that would work.)
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:42 am

In my head, I'm envisioning Trump Jr. invoking attorney client privilege the same way Michael Scott declares bankruptcy.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Kurth » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:08 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:31 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:55 pm
If I were a lawyer (or doctor!) I'd walk around listening in on random conversations, then complain about privilege every time someone tried later to talk about the details of the conversation.
That's not how it works. The privilege is client's (or patient's) privilege, and not the attorney's (or doctor's).
GreenGoo wrote:I have nothing but a vague idea about how attorney-client privilege works, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't just turn on because a lawyer is nearby. Also, the privilege only applies to conversations between the client and the attorney, I've always assumed. How is talking to your dad privileged?
If it was a joint discussion among the three parties (Trump, Jr., and the attorney), then it could conceivably be attorney-client privileged. I'm not an expert on this (I really don't represent clients in the traditional sense, so this doesn't apply to me day to day), but I think the attorney would need to be representing both parties for their communications to be privileged. If he's only representing one of them, then the privilege is waived by the presence of (and necessary disclosure to) the unrepresented party. (All of that may be changed by the terms of a non-disclosure agreement that may be in place, but I don't know how that would work.)
Yes to all of this good law-splaining. One clarification: If two separate parties want to have a joint conversation with a lawyer representing one (or both) of those parties, they need to rely on the common interest doctrine to maintain the privilege. In order to invoke common interest, they really must have nearly identical interests in the matter. A written agreement setting out the terms of the common interest (or, better yet, a joint defense agreement "JDA") is a smart thing to have in place before those joint discussions take place, but isn't actually necessary to establish common interest.

So, depending on what Trump, Jr. and mystery lawyer were talking about, the substance of those conversations may very well have been privileged. But remember, the attorney client privilege doesn't immediately protect everything that's said or done in the presence of your attorney. The substantive communication must be one between a lawyer and a client and has to be taking place for the purpose of providing legal advice.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Jaymann » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:17 pm

So "locker room" talk is not protected?
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:40 pm

Kurth wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:08 pm
One clarification: If two separate parties want to have a joint conversation with a lawyer representing one (or both) of those parties, they need to rely on the common interest doctrine to maintain the privilege. In order to invoke common interest, they really must have nearly identical interests in the matter.
I'd say he and his father have a common interest in not getting financially destroyed by Russian kompromat. Does that qualify? :shock:

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Remus West » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:38 pm

Assuming that Trump is guilty as hell like everyone thinks and gets caught like everyone hopes, what happens when Putin discards his now useless toy with an injection of poison? Do we get angry and armed or send him a thank you note?
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Rip » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:58 pm

It would seem the toll on the FBI is pretty steep so far as well.
A senior Justice Department official was demoted this week amid an ongoing investigation into his contacts with the opposition research firm responsible for the anti-Trump “dossier,” the department confirmed to Fox News.

Until Wednesday morning, Bruce G. Ohr held two titles at DOJ: associate deputy attorney general, a post that placed him four doors down from his boss, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein; and director of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces (OCDETF), a program described by the department as “the centerpiece of the attorney general’s drug strategy.”

Ohr will retain his OCDETF title but has been stripped of his higher post and ousted from his office on the fourth floor of “Main Justice.”
Additionally, House investigators have determined that Ohr met shortly after the election with Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS – the opposition research firm that hired Steele to compile the dossier with funds supplied by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee. By that point, according to published reports, the dossier had been in the hands of the FBI, which exists under the aegis of DOJ, for some five months, and the surveillance on Page had been commenced more than two months prior.
The contacts between Ohr and Steele, and between Ohr and Simpson, have not been publicly disclosed nor shared with HPSCI staff.

The panel has issued numerous subpoenas for documents and witnesses related to the dossier but claims DOJ and FBI have “stonewalled,” an assertion that House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., seconded in a rare public statement in October.

While the agencies say they have cooperated extensively with Nunes and his team, including the provision of several hundred pages of classified documents relating to the dossier, it was only last weekend that DOJ and FBI agreed to make available to the committee for questioning Peter Strzok, the high-ranking FBI official who was disciplined in July for having sent-anti-Trump texts to a colleague while playing a decisive role in last year’s investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s private server.

Strzok was removed from the staff of Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who is probing allegations of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and demoted to a position on the FBI’s human resources division. The agencies’ decision to make Strzok available to House investigators came on the same day the New York Times and Washington Post disclosed the existence of the anti-Trump text messages, and Fox News disclosed that Strzok’s conduct in the Clinton case was under review by the FBI’s Office of Inspector General.

The demotion of Ohr thus marked the second time within a matter of months that the Justice Department and the FBI have disciplined for misconduct a senior official connected in some form or fashion to the Trump-Russia case.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12 ... -firm.html

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by hepcat » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm

That just tells me that the FBI is doing their job and trying to protect Americans.

Keep up the good work!

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:46 pm

Just saw that Popehat has a nice lawspaliner on the Don Jr. attorney-client privilege issue. Worth a read if you're interested in the issue.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:50 pm

Sounds like the guy might be a victim of politics versus bad conduct; hopefully the investigation is run by someone as fair as Mueller. :coffee:

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by malchior » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:06 pm

At the hearing this morning - it partially featured a review of the Mueller investigation


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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Captain Caveman » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:48 pm

Adam Schiff is raising the alarm that he suspects the House Investigation is about to be shut down and that the Mueller investigation is in peril. First tweet starts a thread that ends with the next tweet warning about what's coming soon for Mueller:
https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/statu ... 6807769088
https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/statu ... 0201416705

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Octavious » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm

If they close the investigation and start investigating Clinton I will lose my mind. :grund:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Zaxxon » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:32 pm

Given your avatar, that's especially concerning.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Octavious » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:34 pm

Every day that avatar is more and more accurate to my mood. Seriously every god damn day there is something horrible this piece of crap is doing.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:41 pm

FBI Deputy Director McCabe sscheduled to testify Tuesday to House Intelligence -- but will he? "If McCabe is still there," says one panel Republican. And another, Gowdy, tells FoxNews he'd a"be a little bit surprised if he is still an employee of the FBI this time next week."
I wonder if Trump will take advantage of the holiday recess to try out a Saturday Night Massacre?

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:53 pm

How does being employed or not affect his ability to testify?

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by em2nought » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:12 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm
If they close the investigation and start investigating Clinton I will lose my mind. :grund:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Vorret » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:42 pm

:pop:
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His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Rip » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:43 pm

em2nought wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:12 pm
Octavious wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm
If they close the investigation and start investigating Clinton I will lose my mind. :grund:
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Max Peck » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:55 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:53 pm
How does being employed or not affect his ability to testify?
As the new head of the FBI, Jared Kushner would be the one giving testimony.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Wouldn't the person with the information and/or specifically involved at the time of the events in question be the one to testify? Hiring a new deputy head and then asking them to testify a week later seems too obviously a scam to me.

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The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Scoop20906 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:43 pm

Rip wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:12 pm
Octavious wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm
If they close the investigation and start investigating Clinton I will lose my mind. :grund:
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I'll back up Rip on this. This post is inappropriate, isn't funny or cool. I don't think anyone on OO wants you making these kinds of posts.


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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Holman » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:09 pm
Wouldn't the person with the information and/or specifically involved at the time of the events in question be the one to testify? Hiring a new deputy head and then asking them to testify a week later seems too obviously a scam to me.
I don't think it's about preventing him from testifying so much as teasing the idea of a purge at the FBI.

He's signaling acceptance of Trump's claim that the Russia Investigation is all Deep State lies.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Enough » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:49 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:43 pm
Rip wrote:
em2nought wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:12 pm
Octavious wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm
If they close the investigation and start investigating Clinton I will lose my mind. :grund:
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If you are saying what I think you are, that shit ain't cool.

Fix it!
I'll back up Rip on this. This post is inappropriate, isn't funny or cool. I don't think anyone on OO wants you making these kinds of posts.


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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Hamlet3145 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:44 am

If Mueller is fired, that is my take it to the streets moment.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by Kraken » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:05 pm

Hamlet3145 wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:44 am
If Mueller is fired, that is my take it to the streets moment.
It looks like the House intelligence (hah) committee is getting the bum's rush. Not that I ever had any faith in the House to begin with...but that does make Mueller even more important.
WASHINGTON — The House Intelligence Committee is racing to complete its investigation of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, scheduling a host of witness interviews in Washington and New York for next week as Congress heads for its break, and, Democrats said, leaving other leads unfollowed.

Some of the most important witnesses are to be interviewed in New York by committee staff early next week, possibly leaving Democrats to choose between attending those depositions or voting on the massive tax bill coming before the House.

And in an indication that Republicans hope to wrap up their inquiry, the House committee has yet to schedule a single interview after the holidays, according to two committee officials familiar with the schedule.

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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by pr0ner » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:52 pm

Trump's lawyers are supposed to meet with Mueller next week.

That will be...interesting. Especially if Mueller winds up fired shortly thereafter. Which is a current rumor.
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Re: The Trump Investigation Thread

Post by em2nought » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:52 pm

Rip wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:43 pm
em2nought wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:12 pm
Octavious wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm
If they close the investigation and start investigating Clinton I will lose my mind. :grund:
There is now a shotgun made specifically for this disease :wink:
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If you are saying what I think you are, that shit ain't cool.

Fix it!
Actually, I wasn't saying what you thought I was as that didn't even occur to me until just now. I was saying basically the opposite in a "What would Octavious' avatar do?" manner. I apologize if people took it the wrong way, like I say hadn't even occurred to me at the time.

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