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Immigration Policy

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Skinypupy
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Skinypupy » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am

Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:46 am

More to file under "it's ok when we do it..."
First lady Melania Trump's Slovenian-born parents were sworn-in as U.S. citizens Thursday, benefiting from a path to citizenship known as family-based immigration that the president and others have derisively dubbed "chain migration."
...
The AP writes that arriving at the ceremony, the Knavses "slipped in and out of a side entrance at a Manhattan federal building flanked by Department of Homeland Security police. Some workers inside didn't know what was going on."
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malchior
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by malchior » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:22 pm

I like the additional implication that the process may have been greased for them. Must be nice.

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El Guapo
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by El Guapo » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am
Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm not in a position to tell white nationalists their business, but shouldn't Ingraham adopting a Guatemalan kid be disqualifying in terms of her standing among white nationalists on this? Isn't she part of the problem, as she is defining it?

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Chaz
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Chaz » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:35 pm

She can always fall back on the old civilizing the savages angle.
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GungHo
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by GungHo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:58 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:46 am
More to file under "it's ok when we do it..."
First lady Melania Trump's Slovenian-born parents were sworn-in as U.S. citizens Thursday, benefiting from a path to citizenship known as family-based immigration that the president and others have derisively dubbed "chain migration."
...
The AP writes that arriving at the ceremony, the Knavses "slipped in and out of a side entrance at a Manhattan federal building flanked by Department of Homeland Security police. Some workers inside didn't know what was going on."
I think it can also go under the 'just when I thought they couldn't dumbfound me again...they did...again' category.

Not as neat and tidy as your's tho...I'll have to work on that.
I am kind of sad to say I'm not shocked by this whole dynamic, I'm becoming numb to this administration. But this is pretty disgusting.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by GungHo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am

Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am
Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm gonna say something a little radical here....
First however, I'd like to say I don't agree with her tone or her implications (and they're pretty heavy handed implications...she's not going for subtle with pictures of brown skinned people climbing walls). 🙄

Giving Ingraham the benefit of the doubt, which I know she absolutely does not deserve, but that our country does, I'm going to choose to believe that she was talking about people who move to America but don't become 'Americans'. That aspect of her diatribe I can sympathize with. I don't give a rat's behind about the demographics of it all but I do want people who move to America to adopt our cultures and norms. Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
And don't get me wrong, I would totally still celebrate the 4th of July no matter what country I lived in, same for turkey day and Christmas and I'd still watch football. But..I'd dang sure learn French as fast as I could, and I'd get behind the French men's national soccer team and make a sure point of learning their cultural highpoints asap. I could still be an American living in France while also being a Frenchman; maybe a poor imitation but at least giving an honest effort.

If that's her point, yeah ok I can be on board with that. No friggin clue how you ensure that happens...I'm pretty sure you can't. It just needs to happen organically and in that case its up to those of us already living here to help new immigrants become more American. If we aren't willing to help...then I think you get what we have now. And that is America has gone from the melting pot where we assimilate all of these other cultures and norms and the whole thing gets better because of it, to now we're a pot of stew with lots of very distinct blobs of stuff scattered all throughout and some of it works well together and some of it doesn't.

But back to Ingraham...Yeah I know none of this was her point. She was just dogwhistling and she got me trying to justify her words. Sad!
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Fitzy
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Fitzy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 am

GungHo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am
Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am
Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm gonna say something a little radical here....
First however, I'd like to say I don't agree with her tone or her implications (and they're pretty heavy handed implications...she's not going for subtle with pictures of brown skinned people climbing walls). 🙄

Giving Ingraham the benefit of the doubt, which I know she absolutely does not deserve, but that our country does, I'm going to choose to believe that she was talking about people who move to America but don't become 'Americans'. That aspect of her diatribe I can sympathize with. I don't give a rat's behind about the demographics of it all but I do want people who move to America to adopt our cultures and norms. Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
I’d like to address the “become Americans”. It’s largely a myth. It always has been a myth. People didn’t come over, snap their fingers and become Americans. They have always (most of the time), come over in groups, stayed within those groups, had kids, those kids learned English growing up, spent time divided between two cultures and had kids who became fully immersed in the “American” culture while even than retaining aspects of their grandparent’s culture. It takes a generation or two to grow into a culture, especially one that is very different from the orignial.

The idea that we should expect people to come here and somehow “be American” is unrealistic. People will come here and do the best they can.

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Holman
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Holman » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:14 am

Nothing she says is about what actual immigrants do or should do differently.

It is 100% about boosting her white racist audience's racism.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.

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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by GungHo » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:43 am

Fitzy wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 am
GungHo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am
Skinypupy wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:13 am
Wait, so the woman who adopted two kids from Russia and one from Guatemala is now openly speaking out against legal immigration?

Good luck explaining that one to the kids when they're older.
I'm gonna say something a little radical here....
First however, I'd like to say I don't agree with her tone or her implications (and they're pretty heavy handed implications...she's not going for subtle with pictures of brown skinned people climbing walls). 🙄

Giving Ingraham the benefit of the doubt, which I know she absolutely does not deserve, but that our country does, I'm going to choose to believe that she was talking about people who move to America but don't become 'Americans'. That aspect of her diatribe I can sympathize with. I don't give a rat's behind about the demographics of it all but I do want people who move to America to adopt our cultures and norms. Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
I’d like to address the “become Americans”. It’s largely a myth. It always has been a myth. People didn’t come over, snap their fingers and become Americans. They have always (most of the time), come over in groups, stayed within those groups, had kids, those kids learned English growing up, spent time divided between two cultures and had kids who became fully immersed in the “American” culture while even than retaining aspects of their grandparent’s culture. It takes a generation or two to grow into a culture, especially one that is very different from the orignial.

The idea that we should expect people to come here and somehow “be American” is unrealistic. People will come here and do the best they can.

I disagree that it necessarily takes generations(my uneducated guess at that is you're probably usually right)...I could talk about several anecdotal experiences I've had in my life that say otherwise, but that's all they are. Nothing that would help prove the point one way or the other. I could also point to a bunch of personal experiences with people who never 'became American' even after 40 years. But then what is 'being American' anyway?

And really Holman's point is the larger one: that Ingraham was just yelling thru the megaphone to galvanize the racists and keep them distracted from the important things happening in our world.
Also that I'm foolish for even trying to create a conversation around her talking points because I knew damn well exactly what she meant when she said them. Just not possible to discuss it in any really meaningful way when the basis is mired in racism, dogwhistling and distraction.
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Victoria Raverna
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Victoria Raverna » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:13 am

GungHo wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:27 am
Just like I would do if I moved to France or Indonesia.
If you move to Indonesia, you're not going to be Indonesians no matter how hard you try to adopt the culture. :)

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Grifman
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Grifman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:58 am

Most studies have shown that in the US most immigrants are assimilated within 2 to 3 generations. It works pretty well in the US - we generally don’t have the problems like France with large ghettos of unassimilated migrants. Most people that come here want to become Americans with all that entails.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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LawBeefaroni
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 am

Grifman wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:58 am
Most studies have shown that in the US most immigrants are assimilated within 2 to 3 generations. It works pretty well in the US - we generally don’t have the problems like France with large ghettos of unassimilated migrants. Most people that come here want to become Americans with all that entails.
Well, that's part of the problem though, isn't it? Some people can't bear assimilated brown or black or whatever.


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Max Peck
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Max Peck » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:29 pm

“There Won’t Even Be a Paper Trail”: Has Stephen Miller Become a Shadow Master at the State Department?
For the past year, Miller has been quietly gutting the U.S. refugee program, slashing the number of people allowed into the country to the lowest level in decades. “His name hasn’t been on anything,” says a former U.S. official who worked on refugee issues. “He is working behind the scenes, he has planted all of his people in all of these positions, he is on the phone with them all of the time, and he is creating a side operation that will circumvent the normal, transparent policy process.” And he is succeeding.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by dbt1949 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Edited, wrong thread. Oops!
Last edited by dbt1949 on Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chaz
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Chaz » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:15 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:29 pm
“There Won’t Even Be a Paper Trail”: Has Stephen Miller Become a Shadow Master at the State Department?
For the past year, Miller has been quietly gutting the U.S. refugee program, slashing the number of people allowed into the country to the lowest level in decades. “His name hasn’t been on anything,” says a former U.S. official who worked on refugee issues. “He is working behind the scenes, he has planted all of his people in all of these positions, he is on the phone with them all of the time, and he is creating a side operation that will circumvent the normal, transparent policy process.” And he is succeeding.
It's this shit that really worries me. It's the quiet things going on behind the scenes that are having a large impact on people's lives, and being done by appointees that can't be voted out of office until the next Presidential election, and we try and kick their boss out. The only thing that's able to slow this down before then is taking Congress from the GOP, and maybe get some oversight happening.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:19 am

Politico: Stephen Miller Is an Immigration Hypocrite. I Know Because I’m His Uncle.
Let me tell you a story about Stephen Miller and chain migration.

It begins at the turn of the 20th century in a dirt-floor shack in the village of Antopol, a shtetl of subsistence farmers in what is now Belarus. Beset by violent anti-Jewish pogroms and forced childhood conscription in the Czar’s army, the patriarch of the shack, Wolf-Leib Glosser, fled a village where his forebears had lived for centuries and took his chances in America.

He set foot on Ellis Island on January 7, 1903, with $8 to his name. Though fluent in Polish, Russian, and Yiddish he understood no English. An elder son, Nathan, soon followed. By street corner peddling and sweat-shop toil Wolf-Leib and Nathan sent enough money home to pay off debts and buy the immediate family’s passage to America in 1906. That group included young Sam Glosser, who with his family settled in the western Pennsylvania city of Johnstown, a booming coal and steel town that was a magnet for other hard-working immigrants. The Glosser family quickly progressed from selling goods from a horse and wagon to owning a haberdashery in Johnstown run by Nathan and Wolf-Leib to a chain of supermarkets and discount department stores run by my grandfather, Sam, and the next generation of Glossers, including my dad, Izzy. It was big enough to be listed on the AMEX stock exchange and employed thousands of people over time. In the span of some 80 years and five decades, this family emerged from poverty in a hostile country to become a prosperous, educated clan of merchants, scholars, professionals, and, most important, American citizens.

What does this classically American tale have to do with Stephen Miller? Well, Izzy Glosser is his maternal grandfather, and Stephen’s mother, Miriam, is my sister.
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