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Trump Trade War

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Zarathud
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Zarathud » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:00 pm

Its Depressing that Trump has taken the demonization of the Other to such lengths. Trump proves that Branding is more important than Policy.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Kraken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:10 pm

bedlam, chaos, injury and death!

He was talking about immigration enforcement, not trade, but it's a classic example of fearmongering. How could any good American support bedlam, chaos, injury and death?

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by coopasonic » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:56 pm

Bedlam? Was he just talking to Ted Baxter?
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Max Peck » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:11 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:13 am
Holman wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:00 am
Max Peck wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:11 am
Instead of being called NAFTA, it is now called USMCA (United States, Mexico and Canada Agreement) -- two letters for the US and only one each for Mexico and Canada. MAGA!
All big acronyms acquire pronunciations as names, but this one is missing a necessary vowel in the middle.

Since the M is for Mexico, the natural choice is... "U.S. Mecca"?
Maybe a theme song. "It's fun to trade in the Us-M-C-A..."
Trump ran with your suggestion.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:51 pm

Hey, sweet. That qualifies me for Kudlow's job now.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:07 pm

WaPo
The economic agreement President Trump said he reached with Chinese leader Xi Jinping on Saturday showed signs of unraveling Tuesday, with the White House threatening new penalties against Beijing and multiple officials seeking to downplay expectations for an eventual deal.

Investors, who had applauded the deal on Monday, turned sharply negative Tuesday. In midday trading, the Dow Jones industrial average had dropped more than 800 points or about 3 percent. The Standard and Poor’s 500-stock index and tech-heavy Nasdaq were also down about 3 percent.

Trump, in a series of Twitter posts, threatened to slap a range of import penalties on Chinese products if they did not make major changes in their economic relationship with the United States.
...
This is a much different characterization of the China talks than just three days ago, when Trump had dinner with China’s president at a meeting of the Group of 20. After the dinner, Trump said they reached the framework of a deal that would come together in 90 days.
...
He later said China had committed to buying large amounts of U.S. agricultural products and completely removing all tariffs on U.S. automobiles, a huge shift from its current 40 percent penalty. Chinese officials, meanwhile, did not confirm any of these details. They wouldn’t even acknowledge that there was a 90-day deadline under which they were operating.

In the past 24 hours, there were signs that White House officials were beginning to backpedal from some of their initial optimism. In his Twitter posts on Tuesday, Trump said they might need an extension if the 90-day timeline didn’t prove sufficient.

Meanwhile, White House National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow said there wasn’t an actual agreement for China to remove auto tariffs, but that he expected China to eventually do it as a measure of good faith.

He also said that China’s vice premier, Liu He, had told him there would be changes made “immediately” to show the Chinese were serious about a new agreement. But Kudlow acknowledged Tuesday that so far they haven’t seen any evidence of concrete steps being taken.
...
The comments by the president and his top advisers over the past 48 hours have only added to China’s confusion about their negotiating partners.

“You don’t do this with the Chinese. You don’t triumphantly proclaim all their concessions in public. It’s just madness,” the former official said, who asked for anonymity to describe confidential discussions.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Carpet_pissr » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:06 pm

WaPo wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:07 pm
“You don’t do this with the Chinese. You don’t triumphantly proclaim all their concessions in public. It’s just madness,” the former official said, who asked for anonymity to describe confidential discussions.
Trump does! WILDCARD, BITCHES!!! YEEEEE HAWWWWW!

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by pr0ner » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:14 pm

I'm the Tariff Man, bitches.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:22 pm

Fox business article outlining factors and details around the market fall today.

No reference to the president was to be had.

On the plus side, outside that glaring omission, it was pretty factual.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Paingod » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:11 am

Kraken wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:52 pm
Republicans have a long record of persuading people to vote against their own interests, mostly by demonizing the Others. It's impressive how reliably that works.
If you drive this railroad spike into your head, it'll keep the demons from stealing your children! You know, too - it works. Now everyone has railroad spikes in their heads, and demons never stole their children.

The catch? There were never any demons.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Unagi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:45 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:06 pm
WaPo wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:07 pm
“You don’t do this with the Chinese. You don’t triumphantly proclaim all their concessions in public. It’s just madness,” the former official said, who asked for anonymity to describe confidential discussions.
Trump does! WILDCARD, BITCHES!!! YEEEEE HAWWWWW!
I was thinking the very same thing that WaPo quote says...
And not just the Chinese.... ANYONE. What a fantastically horrible negotiator/deal maker.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Unagi » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:53 am

OK, Trumps two latest tweets:







One of the very exciting things to come out of my meeting with President Xi of China is his promise to me to criminalize the sale of deadly Fentanyl coming into the United States. It will now be considered a “controlled substance.” This could be a game changer on what is.......
.....considered to be the worst and most dangerous, addictive and deadly substance of them all. Last year over 77,000 people died from Fentanyl. If China cracks down on this “horror drug,” using the Death Penalty for distributors and pushers, the results will be incredible!

Here we go... Death Penalty for pushers!!!
Last edited by Unagi on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Holman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:53 am


Whoever does the POTUS policy tweets (and might very well be trolling) wrote:Very strong signals being sent by China once they returned home from their long trip, including stops, from Argentina. Not to sound naive or anything, but I believe President Xi meant every word of what he said at our long and hopefully historic meeting. ALL subjects discussed!
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by hepcat » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:05 am

pr0ner wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:14 pm
I'm the Tariff Man, bitches.
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I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:20 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:22 pm
Fox business article outlining factors and details around the market fall today.

No reference to the president was to be had.

On the plus side, outside that glaring omission, it was pretty factual.
For some reason my cable recently got the Fox Business Channel. I'm all about business news. My experience is it is the least tainted but political editorialized narrative. Or that was my experience. The first day I turn it on Lou Dobbs is hosting a show where he's doing nothing sucking off Trump and attacking the Clinton and Comey. Fox seems to be moving from news to controlling political discourse to trying to direct business/the economy/the market. I'm just moved one step closer to cancelling cable. This is the network I used to think was bold and independent when it brought us the Simpson and Married with Children and syndicated Star Trek in the 80s. Now I'm pretty much done with them and would see them. Part of the reason for my downturn in sports viewership is most of my hometeams broadcast mostly on Fox. I'm glad Illitches are pulling their teams from the the Fox marketspace.

Oddly enough I think their most reasonable "news" medium is their internet presence, where everyone else seems can get slightly mad at times.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:23 am

It's all going to change with the merger.
In the merger, Disney will acquire Fox’s television and movie studio, cable television channels FX and National Geographic, a stake in streaming service Hulu, television operations in India and Fox’s 39 percent stake in London-based pay-TV company Sky.
...
The acquisition will occur immediately after the spin-off by 21st Century Fox of the Fox Broadcasting network and stations, Fox News Channel, Fox Business Network, FS1, FS2 and Big Ten Network into a newly listed company referred to as New Fox. If 21st Century Fox completes its acquisition of the 61 percent of Sky it doesn’t already own prior to closing of the Disney acquisition, Disney would assume full ownership of Sky, including the assumption of its outstanding debt, upon closing.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by hepcat » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:41 am

Joseph Goebbels corpse just got an erection.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Holman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:18 am

LordMortis wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:20 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:22 pm
Fox business article outlining factors and details around the market fall today.

No reference to the president was to be had.

On the plus side, outside that glaring omission, it was pretty factual.
For some reason my cable recently got the Fox Business Channel. I'm all about business news. My experience is it is the least tainted but political editorialized narrative. Or that was my experience. The first day I turn it on Lou Dobbs is hosting a show where he's doing nothing sucking off Trump and attacking the Clinton and Comey. Fox seems to be moving from news to controlling political discourse to trying to direct business/the economy/the market. I'm just moved one step closer to cancelling cable. This is the network I used to think was bold and independent when it brought us the Simpson and Married with Children and syndicated Star Trek in the 80s. Now I'm pretty much done with them and would see them. Part of the reason for my downturn in sports viewership is most of my hometeams broadcast mostly on Fox. I'm glad Illitches are pulling their teams from the the Fox marketspace.

Oddly enough I think their most reasonable "news" medium is their internet presence, where everyone else seems can get slightly mad at times.
Aside from some people at the top getting filthy rich off of both, there has always been very little connection between big-name Fox News and Fox TV. In all the decades, the creators of The Simpsons have probably never stepped into the same building as Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly or Fox & Friends.

I've heard that's not uncommon for local Fox affiliates to be pretty independent of Fox News as well, even to the point of employing liberals as local anchors.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:37 pm

That was my mindset until my brush with Fox Business made me want to spit.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:16 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:20 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:22 pm
Fox business article outlining factors and details around the market fall today.

No reference to the president was to be had.

On the plus side, outside that glaring omission, it was pretty factual.
For some reason my cable recently got the Fox Business Channel. I'm all about business news. My experience is it is the least tainted but political editorialized narrative. Or that was my experience. The first day I turn it on Lou Dobbs is hosting a show where he's doing nothing sucking off Trump and attacking the Clinton and Comey. Fox seems to be moving from news to controlling political discourse to trying to direct business/the economy/the market. I'm just moved one step closer to cancelling cable. This is the network I used to think was bold and independent when it brought us the Simpson and Married with Children and syndicated Star Trek in the 80s. Now I'm pretty much done with them and would see them. Part of the reason for my downturn in sports viewership is most of my hometeams broadcast mostly on Fox. I'm glad Illitches are pulling their teams from the the Fox marketspace.

Oddly enough I think their most reasonable "news" medium is their internet presence, where everyone else seems can get slightly mad at times.
You'll need to stop watching 20th Century Fox movies, too.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:30 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:16 pm
You'll need to stop watching 20th Century Fox movies, too.
That's what I mean. I start to think about these things. It usually takes something for damned serious to motivate me against inertia. Fox is on the precipice. The idea that my sponsorship dollars or even my actual purchasing power is paying to float the expanding disinformation empire that has taken hold of the federal government and is now taking on WallStreet concurrently with the government they're sleeping with that is now also taking on WallStreet (and not in a good way). That's pretty damned serious.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:59 pm

I don't think all those entities necessarily share revenue though. Is picking up a NatGeo really funding Fox News?

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:21 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:59 pm
I don't think all those entities necessarily share revenue though. Is picking up a NatGeo really funding Fox News?
The problem is how do you tell the difference? The mothership seems to slide seamlessly in to and out of Fox News mode and now it's branching out in ways that are making me increasingly uncomfortable. It's also making me thankful that as this discomfort is going up Fox is planning to sell of the more value to me assets.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:46 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:21 pm
It's also making me thankful that as this discomfort is going up Fox is planning to sell of the more value to me assets.
If it helps, another, and possibly more accurate, way to look at it is that Disney is eating Fox but throwing the less value to you assets away as table scraps.
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by gilraen » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:28 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:09 pm
As posted elsewhere:

U.S. Goods Imports and Trade Deficit With China Hit New Records

The U.S. imported a record amount of goods in September, while the trade deficit with China rose to its highest level ever, despite intense efforts by the Trump administration to close the trade gap.
Winning!
More winning!
In terms of losses, investors have seen far worse. But going by the breadth of assets failing to deliver upside, 2018 is starting to look historic.

Nothing’s working, not large or small-cap stocks in the U.S., not international or emerging equities, not Treasuries, investment-grade bonds, commodities or real estate. Most of them are down, and the ones that are up are doing so by percentages in the low single-digits.

That’s all but unique in history. Normally when something falls, something else gains. Amid the financial catastrophe of 2008, Treasuries rallied. In 1974, commodities were a bright spot. In 2002, it was REITs. In 2018, there’s nowhere to run.
(granted, not all of this is a consequence of something the executive branch did but the trade policy is certainly not helping)

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Octavious » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:52 am

Crashing again today. He's seriously totally trashed the country in the span of 2 years. He's right he really has accomplished more than any other president in such a short time. Too bad it's all terrible things that we will have to deal with for decades.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:04 am

Image
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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by pr0ner » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:22 am

I'm sure Canada arresting Huawei's CFO for extradition to the US won't help US/Chinese relations any.
Hodor.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Alefroth » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:12 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:52 am
Crashing again today. He's seriously totally trashed the country in the span of 2 years. He's right he really has accomplished more than any other president in such a short time. Too bad it's all terrible things that we will have to deal with for decades.
Don't worry, trade wars are easy.
Axios wrote:The U.S. trade deficit reached $55.5 billion in October — the highest level in a decade — as imports rose 0.2% to $266.5 billion and exports fell 0.1% to $211 billion, the AP reports.

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Trump Trade War

Post by Octavious » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:25 pm

If he just sat and did nothing the economy would be doing great. Instead he decides to do weird power games and is dragging the entire country down with him. I've never hated a person more in my life.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Pyperkub » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 pm

pr0ner wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:22 am
I'm sure Canada arresting Huawei's CFO for extradition to the US won't help US/Chinese relations any.
BBC seems to think it's based on the Iran/North Korea sanctions and not the Trade War, though it certainly could be both.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by malchior » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:00 pm

Thanks to this idiot I at least for the first time saw my investment manager perform some tax loss harvesting in my account. Exciting! :doh:

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:23 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:25 pm
If he just sat and did nothing the economy would be doing great. Instead he decides to do weird power games and is dragging the entire country down with him. I've never hated a person more in my life.
The economy *is* doing great. The damage he is doing hasn't taken hold yet, but we're starting to see symptoms.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:38 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:22 am
I'm sure Canada arresting Huawei's CFO for extradition to the US won't help US/Chinese relations any.
BBC seems to think it's based on the Iran/North Korea sanctions and not the Trade War, though it certainly could be both.
I think pr0ner's point isn't that she was arrested due to trade war issues, but that the arrest will increase trade war issues.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Octavious » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:34 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:23 pm
Octavious wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:25 pm
If he just sat and did nothing the economy would be doing great. Instead he decides to do weird power games and is dragging the entire country down with him. I've never hated a person more in my life.
The economy *is* doing great. The damage he is doing hasn't taken hold yet, but we're starting to see symptoms.
Ya the point being that everything is signaling that we're quickly going south. I think we'll be in a total shit storm by the time 2020 comes around at this rate. Which would be a good thing in one way I guess. :lol:
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:34 pm
Ya the point being that everything is signaling that we're quickly going south.
I don't disagree. But there are always bears and bulls. Economists that are doomsayers or optimists. The layman often never knows until it happens. And unemployment is at a historical low. That's...not south by a long shot. Unemployment might not be the entire picture, but for many (most?) voters, it is.

The fall may be coming, but it sure hasn't arrived yet.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:34 pm
Ya the point being that everything is signaling that we're quickly going south. I think we'll be in a total shit storm by the time 2020 comes around at this rate. Which would be a good thing in one way I guess. :lol:
Now that you've elected obstructionist democrats, of course it will.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:28 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:15 pm
Now that you've elected obstructionist democrats, of course it will.
Sure, but the realities of the situation are irrelevant. Drumpf has successfully blamed the Dems while in control of 2 of the 3 branches of government.

I read a headline recently from Calgary that was something like "You should never trust a Liberal and Trudeau in particular". How are people (everyone, politicians, citizens) supposed to operate a functioning country with that kind of mindset?

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by Kraken » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:38 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Octavious wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:34 pm
Ya the point being that everything is signaling that we're quickly going south.
I don't disagree. But there are always bears and bulls. Economists that are doomsayers or optimists. The layman often never knows until it happens. And unemployment is at a historical low. That's...not south by a long shot. Unemployment might not be the entire picture, but for many (most?) voters, it is.

The fall may be coming, but it sure hasn't arrived yet.
I am assured that only 14% of economists foresee a recession in '19. IDK who polled them or which economists. But the stock market is not so sanguine.

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Re: Trump Trade War

Post by LordMortis » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:58 pm

Kraken wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:38 pm
I am assured that only 14% of economists foresee a recession in '19. IDK who polled them or which economists. But the stock market is not so sanguine.
How many predicted 2007/2008 in 2006 when it seemed clear as bells (to me anyway)? That said, I do not think this 2006 leading in to 2007. I do think we're headed more volatility around a recession that was due going to be magnified painfully by this administration, even if recession is not the right word to describe collapsing industries and business in ability to adapt to rapidly devolving federal law, US corporate implosions began in August after the free money started running out and destabilizing them on the global stage is not something they're just going re-balance overnight.

Entrepreneurial millennial will love it though. This is going to bring out a new playing field based on the concept of disruption and demand for on the fly adaptability that is loved so much by the next generation.

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