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The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

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The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:05 pm


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Octavious
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Octavious » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:40 pm

I hate to say it, but that one is pretty damn clever. :lol: And yes I know Trump didn't come up with it.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by gilraen » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:06 pm

For the President to tweet that is beyond the pale, but it's not like anyone is surprised at this point.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by LordMortis » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:50 pm

Irrespective of POTUS being a tool and showing it with that tweet, I had to admit I ran off to google the daily wire pics and memes posts, which he is advertising, expecting to see him bed with overt jackholes and they're very mild and at first glance and don't cross any lines from funny to jackassery much less distasteful. There are a few :roll: but then who doesn't have a few :roll: in their closets.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Octavious » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:09 pm

gilraen wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:06 pm
For the President to tweet that is beyond the pale, but it's not like anyone is surprised at this point.
I've pretty much given up. Nothing is going to change his supporters minds and I don't see the repubs smacking him down. I just hope it doesn't take decades to recover from this idiot. if ever...
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by malchior » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:18 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:09 pm
gilraen wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:06 pm
For the President to tweet that is beyond the pale, but it's not like anyone is surprised at this point.
I've pretty much given up. Nothing is going to change his supporters minds and I don't see the repubs smacking him down. I just hope it doesn't take decades to recover from this idiot. if ever...
The worst thing is that Trump is like a localized tumor of a metastasized cancer. The tumor might kill you itself. However, if you get rid of it, you still have the rest of the cancer to deal with still.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Moliere » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:16 pm

It's official.
Despite sub-zero temperatures and a blustery wind, an estimated crowd of several thousand turned out to hear the Massachusetts senator pledge to fight corruption in Washington, level the economic playing field and reform the US democratic process.

Warren enters a crowded presidential field, as Democrats tell pollsters they want to find the candidate most able to beat Donald Trump.

There were some in Ms Warren's campaign kick-off crowd who expressed concern that her struggles to explain her past claims of Native American heritage could make her vulnerable to attack.

Ms Warren has long been a star in the progressive left, however, and she has already built a formidable nationwide campaign. She has just under a year to make her case, before voters start rendering their judgement.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by stimpy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:39 pm

She has no chance. Just muddying up the waters.
It makes my dookie twinkle.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:13 pm

I entirely agree. She's tainted (with her claims) at this point and will not come out on top and doesn't do the dems any favors, even if I personally am probably in line with a good number of her policy ideas.


I will also add that I sadly feel that the misogyny crown that Hillary was assigned has been passed to her, so that makes her totally sunk.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:15 pm

You can't be a star in the progressive left having proudly declared "American Indian" in applications when (while you may very well have some fairly quasi-recent claim) you are demonstrably accepted and viewed by anyone that meets you as 'run of the mill - white'.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:43 pm

"Sub-zero temperatures," BBC? Maybe Celsius. It was blustery today, but not polar vortex cold.

The Boston Globe had a good package on her today. As you might imagine, she's a larger-than-life figure here in MA.

Why she chose to announce in Lawrence.
The setting offers vivid examples of the intersecting themes of labor, immigration, and gender that appear likely to dominate the 2020 Democratic race.

Nicknamed the “immigrant city,” Lawrence was in 1912 the scene of one of the country’s most notable labor strikes, started and dominated by female textile workers.
The significance of Joe Kennedy's endorsement. Anytime a Kennedy does anything, it's news around here.
Kennedy will announce his support for Warren in a speech introducing her Saturday, they said. He is expected to focus heavily on economic issues and detail Warren’s efforts in that space, arguing that her record sets her apart.

It’s a high-profile endorsement for Warren at a time when the vast majority of big-name Democrats are hanging back and waiting to see how the ever-expanding field shakes out.
More verbiage about the Native American thing.
The best thing Warren can do — what she needs to do — is put all the facts about her past in front of voters. The senator needs to search not only her records but her conscience to end the drip-drip-drip of fresh revelations. Only Warren knows how much worse her political travails can get. For the sake of her campaign — and of her party, should she end up winning the nomination— any further revelations must come from her.

Voters ready to forgive and move on might feel differently if the slow drip continues, or if her explanations don’t hold up. She should have put all this to rest years ago when it first came up in her 2012 Senate campaign against Scott Brown. This go-around, Warren needs to deal with the issue now, rather than in October 2020.
I am still on Team Warren for the time being. She's a little to the right of what I would prefer (she still advocates capitalism, for example), but her values are closest to my own among those who have announced so far. She's smart as a whip, she genuinely believes in her causes, she's tough, and she works tirelessly. But I recognize (like everyone else) that she has got to overcome the Pocahontas thing, and she has got to do it promptly and decisively. Beating the Republican nominee, whoever that ends up being, trumps ideological purity this time. Most likely she ends up with a high-powered cabinet position in the next administration. Worst-case, she's still my senator, and I'm content with that.

Read the links if you want to be fully up on the State of the Warren at this time.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:02 pm

ripping this from the Trump thread...

Holman wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:54 pm
Zaxxon wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:48 pm
Very subtle.



I guess we should be impressed that he managed to recall a historical event?
He really missed the chance for a shout-out to Andrew Jackson there.
Not being snarky, but will she?

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by LawBeefaroni » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:07 pm

Also from that thread, Jr. removes any possibility of doubt that it was intentional.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Defiant » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:29 pm

As a side note of random trivia: we've already had our first Native American VP.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:55 pm

Unagi wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:02 pm
ripping this from the Trump thread...

Holman wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:54 pm
Zaxxon wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:48 pm
Very subtle.



I guess we should be impressed that he managed to recall a historical event?
He really missed the chance for a shout-out to Andrew Jackson there.
Not being snarky, but will she?
You should go with snarky, it's better than the alternative.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:02 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:55 pm
You should go with snarky, it's better than the alternative.
You're right. However, it's seriously easy snark that she will need to seriously contend with. I just think it's not winnable.

The way she handled it most recently (with the DNA test) was horrible.
Frankly, she should have used that moment to distance herself from it... she should/could have said something like "While the DNA results do seem to indicate some distant connection to Native American DNA markers, I wouldn't feel comfortable claiming Native American in any survey or admissions form, etc. Earlier in my life, I had only the stories my family shared with us to go on, and I can see now how it was clearly exaggerated."

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:15 pm

I think this is a super important issue, with Native American rights being at the forefront of American politics right now, focusing on a politician's heritage is super important. I'm glad that the president, the American media, and the American voter is spending so much time on it.

I'm confident in the end something will come of this and America will be a better place because of this meaningful nation-wide dialogue. I hope that most native americans understand all the positives that can come from this and fully support this conversation.

Super important.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:38 pm

I'll assume you are serious.

There is like zero chance that conversation is about to happen in America.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:29 pm

Unagi wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:38 pm
I'll assume you are serious.

There is like zero chance that conversation is about to happen in America.
He's being sarcastic.

--

As for Warren, I think a savvy candidate could still weather this exposure.

She grew up working-class in Oklahoma, and to me it is entirely believable that family lore of native ancestry would be taken seriously and would inform one's sense of self. (My family roots are working-class Tennessee/Alabama, and we have a similar sense of connection to a Native American great-great-grandmother. This is established in family Bibles and letters written generations before identity politics were any kind of thing.)

She needs to explain herself, but it would be wrong to assume that no honest explanation is possible.

What needs is explaining is why she choose to present herself on (some) paper as *principally* Native, and whether she ever benefited from that. AFAIK, it hasn't yet been proven that she ever got anything from it.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:29 pm
Unagi wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:38 pm
I'll assume you are serious.
He's being sarcastic.
At first, I assumed that - and then foresaw him saying, "Actually, I'm serious".

So I figured I'd err on assuming he was serious. But I think you are right.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:37 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:29 pm
What needs is explaining is why she choose to present herself on (some) paper as *principally* Native, and whether she ever benefited from that. AFAIK, it hasn't yet been proven that she ever got anything from it.
I'm trying to imagine the explanation that will make it all go away. If it's just that she never got anything from it, that will be pretty weak.
Had she revealed the DNA connection and pronounce the science, in her opinion, wasn't enough to warrant her lifelong claims, while before she felt she could wear it with pride (as you describe), she could have turned it off... but she did the opposite.

bracing for Trump's "commander in chief" jokes.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:40 pm

Unagi wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:37 pm
bracing for Trump's "commander in chief" jokes.
Rob Lowe (?!) did that earlier today, but he has since deleted the tweet.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:42 pm

Unagi wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:02 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:55 pm
You should go with snarky, it's better than the alternative.
You're right. However, it's seriously easy snark that she will need to seriously contend with. I just think it's not winnable.

The way she handled it most recently (with the DNA test) was horrible.
Frankly, she should have used that moment to distance herself from it... she should/could have said something like "While the DNA results do seem to indicate some distant connection to Native American DNA markers, I wouldn't feel comfortable claiming Native American in any survey or admissions form, etc. Earlier in my life, I had only the stories my family shared with us to go on, and I can see now how it was clearly exaggerated."
Isn't that basically what she did? Or was that just recently?

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:53 pm

All I heard was her saying that she had met Trump's challenge to prove that she was Native American. (and so he should pay up!)
Yes, she had before said that she had heard about it through family and such, but she never once put a negative spin on the DNA results nor say that she was done claiming it, which would help her now.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Unagi » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:55 pm

Holman wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:40 pm
Unagi wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:37 pm
bracing for Trump's "commander in chief" jokes.
Rob Lowe (?!) did that earlier today, but he has since deleted the tweet.
It's low hanging fruit.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:09 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... 33d2d3759c
Washington Post wrote:“I won’t sit quietly for @realDonaldTrump’s racism, so I took a test,” Warren wrote on Twitter. “But DNA & family history has nothing to do with tribal affiliation or citizenship, which is determined only — only — by Tribal Nations. I respect the distinction, & don’t list myself as Native in the Senate.”

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by hepcat » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:40 am

She can make all the impassioned and/or reasonable proclamations she wants, but it won’t do a damn thing. If you let Trump bait you into action, you’ve already lost the argument. She will never be anything but a joke to way too many people.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Archinerd » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:55 pm

Hillary 2.0.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm

Dooming candidates before we even see them campaign is exactly what Trump wants.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:14 pm

hepcat wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:40 am
She can make all the impassioned and/or reasonable proclamations she wants, but it won’t do a damn thing. If you let Trump bait you into action, you’ve already lost the argument. She will never be anything but a joke to way too many people.
+1.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by hepcat » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm
Dooming candidates before we even see them campaign is exactly what Trump wants.
She doomed herself by being stupid enough to engage him at his level. That alone disqualifies her in my mind. Her history of attempting to portray herself as something she's not is just icing on the doom cake.

Let's get the ridiculous candidates out of the way now. Hopefully the real challengers are still waiting in the wings. Because I'll be honest, 4 more years of watching Trump masturbate to a picture of himself is really disheartening.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by El Guapo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:26 pm

hepcat wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:16 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm
Dooming candidates before we even see them campaign is exactly what Trump wants.
She doomed herself by being stupid enough to engage him at his level. That alone disqualifies her in my mind. Her history of attempting to portray herself as something she's not is just icing on the doom cake.

Let's get the ridiculous candidates out of the way now. Hopefully the real challengers are still waiting in the wings. Because I'll be honest, 4 more years of watching Trump masturbate to a picture of himself is really disheartening.
How much do you care about the substance of Warren's actions, as opposed to about what you think others will think about Warren's actions?

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by hepcat » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:36 pm

I thought I made it pretty clear that I personally believe her judgement and temperament are questionable in light of her actions. She can promise me everything I want in a politician, but her inability to drag herself out of the mud pit she willingly jumped into after being invited in by head pig Trump have made me doubt her ability to deliver on any of them. Not only that, but her history of claiming minority status...whether she did so for the sake of vanity or for some kind of perceived personal career gain...brings even more doubt in her judgement for me.

That there's no way in hell she'll be able to win in light of her numerous poor decisions is secondary to all that...except when it comes to diminishing the chances of someone who really does have a shot of dethroning the Mangerine. And who comes to the table not only with substance, but the integrity to back it up.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:43 pm

What will you do if she is the nominee?

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Archinerd » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:50 pm

Alefroth wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:43 pm
What will you do if she is the nominee?
If she is the nominee, I will vote for her.
Hopefully we can do better.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by hepcat » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:52 pm

She won't be the nominee. Of that I've no doubt. But if she somehow does cause my worst fear to come true and she gets the nomination, I'll hold my nose and vote for her the same way I did for Hillary in 2016. Even though at that point I'm tossing away my vote as she's way too tainted to win the election.

At the end of the day, her shortcomings pale in comparison to those exhibited by Trump and his klan.

But as I said, she won't get nominated. She'll just serve to muddy the waters during the process.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Malificent » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:57 pm

hepcat wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:52 pm
She won't be the nominee. Of that I've no doubt. But if she somehow does cause my worst fear to come true and she gets the nomination, I'll hold my nose and vote for her the same way I did for Hillary in 2016. Even though at that point I'm tossing away my vote as she's way too tainted to win the election.

But as I said, she won't get nominated. She'll just serve to muddy the waters during the process.
I think it's too early to say whether something is a back breaking issue. After all, BUT HER EMAILS came on relatively late in the process and that turned to be the big one.

Warren may not end up being the candidate but I wouldn't put big money on this being the issue.

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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:03 pm

I have to agree that Warren is taking on water and will probably sink, but can we just step back for a moment and notice how UTTERLY INSANE it is that the U.S. has allowed Trump to get away with literally hundreds of things each a hundred times worse?

Racism and resentment are a helluva drug.
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Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by YellowKing » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 pm

The GOP has let him get away with it, not the US.

They are the weak link in the chain of checks and balances that was supposed to prevent this from happening.

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