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The Trump foreign policy thread

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:00 pm

malchior wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:10 am
NBC News story about the Erdogan phone call. Bolded a few parts of emphasis because...wtf!?!
Trump told Erdogan that a moderate incursion, such as clearing out a safe zone, would be acceptable, officials said. But he said a large invasion that leads to major combat operations would be unacceptable, officials said.

If Turkey did launch a large military operation, Trump warned Erdogan, the U.S. would completely withdraw from Syria, according to one senior U.S. official.
"You can kill them just a little, but if you kill them a lot we're going to leave so you can kill them all the way."

This is Trump's Benghazi-times-10000 like if Benghazi were what Republicans say Benghazi was.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by noxiousdog » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:15 pm

And the Huffington post has figured out why he made this decision.

Trump made [this] comment in a Breitbart News interview in December 2015 during his presidential campaign when asked how he would handle Turkey and Syria.

“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump boasted in response. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one; it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well. They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.”
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:21 pm

noxiousdog wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:15 pm
And the Huffington post has figured out why he made this decision.

Trump made [this] comment in a Breitbart News interview in December 2015 during his presidential campaign when asked how he would handle Turkey and Syria.

“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump boasted in response. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one; it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well. They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.”
It's amazing that the charitable interpretation of this decision is that Trump made it because he's an idiot and he thought that withdrawing U.S. troops from the area would punish Turkey.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:49 pm

Another amazing outcome is you have an American President badgered into submission by an authoritarian. The guy talks him into an invasion approval then when Trump has to retreat due to the backlash in his own party, he has to give the guy a WH state dinner. Well done Donald. Art of the Deal!

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:08 am



Airstrikes have already begun, and the BBC was just reporting the sound of artillery fire.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:25 am

There's a genuine international crisis developing right now, and Trump has been tweeting political grievances every five minutes since dawn.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:26 am

There's no problem unless it's his problem.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:32 am

A new generation of terrorists is born. Anyone doubting at this point that Trump is going to go down as the worst and (possibly last) President?
Last edited by malchior on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by ImLawBoy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:33 am

El Guapo wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:30 am
hepcat wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm
And that walking pile of human shit that is Rand Paul just got finished vigorously defending Trump pulling out. Ah well, at least he knows he did his best to help his master.
Rand Paul's a hardcore isolationist - he'd rather bring U.S. forces home globally, and let the rest of the world burn for all we care. So I don't think this is pure obsequiousness (though that's a perk), but rather reflects Paul's genuine beliefs.
I think that's exactly right. Paul would have been leading the fight for this move from the start.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Daehawk » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:17 pm

Hope the Kurds kick their ass .
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Alefroth » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:23 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:32 am
A new generation of terrorists is born. Anyone doubting at this point that Trump is going to go down as the worst and (possibly last) President?
Trump properties would make great targets.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:21 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:33 am
El Guapo wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:30 am
hepcat wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:26 pm
And that walking pile of human shit that is Rand Paul just got finished vigorously defending Trump pulling out. Ah well, at least he knows he did his best to help his master.
Rand Paul's a hardcore isolationist - he'd rather bring U.S. forces home globally, and let the rest of the world burn for all we care. So I don't think this is pure obsequiousness (though that's a perk), but rather reflects Paul's genuine beliefs.
I think that's exactly right. Paul would have been leading the fight for this move from the start.

Agreed. I tend to be pretty isolationist myself but want to talk about breeding terrorists. Man what we have done to the Kurds over course of 20+ years. sickening.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:17 pm

Can't fault this logic. Can't get in the way of an ancient genocide and the bad guys totally will go to Europe. AMERICA FIRST!


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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:24 pm

Wait, he just took Erdogan's line and called the Kurds PKK?

Turkey considers PKK to be terrorists. Trump just dismissed our most stalwart anti-ISIS allies and called them terrorists.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:26 pm

Holman wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:24 pm
Wait, he just took Erdogan's line and called the Kurds PKK?

Turkey considers PKK to be terrorists. Trump just dismissed our most stalwart anti-ISIS allies and called them terrorists.
Yup - the man is evil.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:29 pm

malchior wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:26 pm
Holman wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:24 pm
Wait, he just took Erdogan's line and called the Kurds PKK?

Turkey considers PKK to be terrorists. Trump just dismissed our most stalwart anti-ISIS allies and called them terrorists.
Yup - the man is evil.
Evil and, fortunately for the long term, stupid. But it escalates the risk in the short term.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Enough » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:15 pm

How any R's can still support this man...




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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:34 pm

The only silver lining to this idiot betraying our allies and getting them killed is that perhaps this will be the straw that breaks Graham's back. If he goes, I have a feeling that quite a few others will follow.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Alefroth » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:04 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:29 pm
malchior wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:26 pm
Holman wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:24 pm
Wait, he just took Erdogan's line and called the Kurds PKK?

Turkey considers PKK to be terrorists. Trump just dismissed our most stalwart anti-ISIS allies and called them terrorists.
Yup - the man is evil.
Evil and, fortunately for the long term, stupid. But it escalates the risk in the short term.
I think it's much more the latter. He sounds as if he doesn't have any understanding and is just parroting what whoever is manipulating him tells him. Like he read a synopsis of the Cliff's Notes.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:30 pm

WHAT DID THE KURDS EVER DO FOR TRUMP TOWER ISTANBUL??

That's really where we are.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by $iljanus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:10 pm

Enough wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:15 pm
How any R's can still support this man...




https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1182031506237280257
If there’s enough constituents in their district of the “We’re tired of being the world’s policeman, time for other countries to pay their way, that’s brown people problems, etc” ilk then they’ll line up to kiss his pasty white ass.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:11 pm

Just seeing this now, linked from Jake Tapper (it's a Twitter thread):


I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Holman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:24 pm

I wonder how many Americans understand that "not being the world's policeman" means that someone else gets to define law & order.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:15 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:11 pm
Just seeing this now, linked from Jake Tapper (it's a Twitter thread):


I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken.

"I am ashamed for the first time in my career."
Welcome to being an American in 2019. Every day more shameful than the last.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by YellowKing » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:11 am

I'm not ashamed because I didn't vote for the jackass. I'm part of the Rebellion. Or Resistance, depending on which flavor of Star Wars you prefer. :D

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:32 am

hepcat wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:34 pm
The only silver lining to this idiot betraying our allies and getting them killed is that perhaps this will be the straw that breaks Graham's back. If he goes, I have a feeling that quite a few others will follow.
Hah! Graham yesterday told Fox News that he had a letter for Republican senators to sign saying impeachment would "destroy the nation". There is no happy ending here. These guys are not reasonable. They aren't loyal to us. They only care about their own power.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Wednesday tried to derail the possible impeachment of President Donald Trump by asking Senate Republicans to sign a loyalty oath.

“I’m going to ask my colleagues in the Senate — Republicans — to sign a letter saying we do not believe the transcript of the phone call between the president and the Ukraine is an impeachable offense,” Graham told Fox News.

According to the South Carolina Republican, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Democrats “are about to destroy the nation for no good reason.”

“I want Nancy Pelosi to know Republican senators are not going to impeach this president based on this transcript,” he added. “She can stop now before she destroys the country."

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LawBeefaroni » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am

YellowKing wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:11 am
I'm not ashamed because I didn't vote for the jackass. I'm part of the Rebellion. Or Resistance, depending on which flavor of Star Wars you prefer. :D
I don't think the special forces guy was talking about his vote either.

I like to think I'm resisting as well but I still pay taxes and those I did vote for aren't doing shit to stop this train wreck.


Put it this way, to some Kurd (or Turk or Ukrainian or whoever) I'm an American and Trump is my president. The nuances of how that happened don't really matter to them. And it's a shameful place to be.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by hepcat » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:54 am

malchior wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:32 am
hepcat wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:34 pm
The only silver lining to this idiot betraying our allies and getting them killed is that perhaps this will be the straw that breaks Graham's back. If he goes, I have a feeling that quite a few others will follow.
Hah! Graham yesterday told Fox News that he had a letter for Republican senators to sign saying impeachment would "destroy the nation". There is no happy ending here. These guys are not reasonable. They aren't loyal to us. They only care about their own power.
I didn't say it would happen in two hours. Tension needs to simmer for a while before a soulless bastard turns on his master.

Trump is actually working overtime to enrage Graham and his ilk with the nonsensical talk about Kurds not joining us in the invasion of Normandy and other weird Trump diatribes.
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:58 am

YellowKing wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:11 am
I'm not ashamed because I didn't vote for the jackass. I'm part of the Rebellion. Or Resistance, depending on which flavor of Star Wars you prefer. :D

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:07 am

hepcat wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:54 am
malchior wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:32 am
hepcat wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:34 pm
The only silver lining to this idiot betraying our allies and getting them killed is that perhaps this will be the straw that breaks Graham's back. If he goes, I have a feeling that quite a few others will follow.
Hah! Graham yesterday told Fox News that he had a letter for Republican senators to sign saying impeachment would "destroy the nation". There is no happy ending here. These guys are not reasonable. They aren't loyal to us. They only care about their own power.
I didn't say it would happen in two hours. Tension needs to simmer for a while before a soulless bastard turns on his master.

Trump is actually working overtime to enrage Graham and his ilk with the nonsensical talk about Kurds not joining us in the invasion of Normandy and other weird Trump diatribes.
He is complaining because Syria is on brand for him. However, he knew that would piss off Trump so he also walked around with a loyalty oath at the same time. He is playing a double game. He is up for election in 2020 too. He isn't leading any charge on Trump...at least until after he can't be primaried.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Remus West » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:37 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am
YellowKing wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:11 am
I'm not ashamed because I didn't vote for the jackass. I'm part of the Rebellion. Or Resistance, depending on which flavor of Star Wars you prefer. :D
I don't think the special forces guy was talking about his vote either.

I like to think I'm resisting as well but I still pay taxes and those I did vote for aren't doing shit to stop this train wreck.


Put it this way, to some Kurd (or Turk or Ukrainian or whoever) I'm an American and Trump is my president. The nuances of how that happened don't really matter to them. And it's a shameful place to be.
So much of this. :(
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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:58 am

Remus West wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:37 am
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am
YellowKing wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:11 am
I'm not ashamed because I didn't vote for the jackass. I'm part of the Rebellion. Or Resistance, depending on which flavor of Star Wars you prefer. :D
I don't think the special forces guy was talking about his vote either.

I like to think I'm resisting as well but I still pay taxes and those I did vote for aren't doing shit to stop this train wreck.


Put it this way, to some Kurd (or Turk or Ukrainian or whoever) I'm an American and Trump is my president. The nuances of how that happened don't really matter to them. And it's a shameful place to be.
So much of this. :(
Exactly. I was instantly ashamed of our nation when he was elected because we put an unqualified clown front stage to the world. It has only gotten worse since.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:10 am

WaPo
President Trump said Wednesday that a British teenager killed in a crash allegedly caused by the wife of a U.S. diplomat was the victim of a “terrible accident,” adding that driving on the wrong side of the road “happens.”

He made the remarks at a news conference to which he carried briefing notes saying that the woman, who left the country after the crash, would not return to Britain, as British authorities have requested.

British police say 19-year-old Harry Dunn was killed by 42-year-old suspect Anne Sacoolas when her Volvo SUV struck his motorcycle in August. Surveillance video indicates that Sacoolas, who is American, was driving “on the wrong side of the road” on the night of the fatal crash, police said. British media reported that she had recently arrived in the country, leading to a theory that she may have been unaccustomed to driving on the left, as is the rule in Britain.

Following the fatal crash, Sacoolas claimed diplomatic immunity under international law, allowing her to avoid prosecution and return to the United States — despite telling officials she had no plans to do so.
...
Despite Trump’s suggestion that a meeting between Sacoolas and Harry Dunn’s grieving parents might be possible, Washington Post photographer Jabin Botsford captured a shot at the news conference of Trump’s National Security Council briefing notes, labeled “Secret,” that appeared to contradict that idea. One note read: “(If Raised) Note, as Secretary Pompeo told Foreign Secretary [Dominic] Raab, that the spouse of the U.S. Government employee will not return to the United Kingdom.”

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:55 am

Rick Wilson on the fake Kurd hysterics

All these GOP types posting "this is a bad decision" tweets about the Kurds are missing one key thing, aren't they?

They won't tag @realdonaldtrump.

Watch. It's a sign as to whether they're serious, or sycophants. If the tweet says, "this is tragic, this is awful, this is a mistake" without saying, "Mr. President..." first, it's a pathetic, weak-dick staffer tweet that carries no moral weight. If it says, "I disagree with the Administration" or "the policy of the Administration is wrong" they're fundamentally unserious people. There is no "Administration" in this decision. It was purely from Trump. Trump is responsible, full stop. ANY Republican who tries to trim this up the middle won't succeed. We're days -- perhaps hours -- from the inevitable, gruesome video of the invasion hitting every screen in the world. Trump gave Turkey the green light. They took it.

Two forces are shaping this humiliating behavior. The first is the reflexive fear of Trump's anger. Worse though, it's the shabby ambitions of small men who believe *they* will be the one to follow Trump in the White House. This won't be the last time they swallow their remaining shreds of dignity and spend a late night staring at the ceiling, knowing they fear Trump's tweets and his yokel mob more than they love freedom or dignity or America's commitments to allies. Small, weak, and fearful. They fear him, but should live in terror of the judgment of history.

They'll be the dismissed men, the enablers, the un-indicted co-conspirators. The villians -- the Bannons, the Millers, the Gorkae -- will have their place in history, but the caucus of wink-and-nod GOP Senators who play the "I'm just trying to have some influence" game will be cautionary footnotes, examples of the weak, needy, venal nature of men and women who viewed their oath of office without the slightest commitment. They'll live their lives knowing when it was time to challenge Trump, to call out evil, to sacrifice political comfort and security for the good of America and the world that they were content for history to record them quaking on their knees rather than fighting on their feet.

So endeth the scourging.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by El Guapo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:21 pm

On that score I was pleased with Liz Cheney's tweet on this:


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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Scraper » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:31 pm

Impossible to understand why @realDonaldTrump is leaving America’s allies to be slaughtered and enabling the return of ISIS
It's not impossible to understand why if you accept that Trump is under Russia's thumb or that he is trying to protect his property in Turkey.
FTE

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by LordMortis » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:43 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am
Put it this way, to some Kurd (or Turk or Ukrainian or whoever) I'm an American and Trump is my president. The nuances of how that happened don't really matter to them. And it's a shameful place to be.
This. I am ill to my soul. To me, I am an American and Trump is my president. The Senate is my Senate. And my very existence isn't threatened (yet) as are entire peoples in Ukraine and Syria whose long standing agreements are now subject to the whims of the most powerful a sociopath in the world. It's beyond shame. Nearly every day I wake up the stress that "we are the baddies" and my vote and my voice is all I reasonably have. I don't even have the courage to refuse to pay my taxes. I am ashamed. As much as I've had disagreements and been angered at the tyranny of the minority, I've never felt the shame and the stress of shame at being an American until these last couple of years. When I see all these tags that pop up as "patriot" this and that, I actually think it now conjures the exact opposite emotion of what is intended in me and it leads to my distrust. The very word "patriot" reminds me of my shame.

This isn't hyperbole.

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Defiant » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:11 pm

Scraper wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:31 pm
Impossible to understand why @realDonaldTrump is leaving America’s allies to be slaughtered and enabling the return of ISIS
It's not impossible to understand why if you accept that Trump is under Russia's thumb or that he is trying to protect his property in Turkey.
Or if you paid attention to the 2016 campaign where he talked about turning our back on our allies (eg, NATO, Korea, Japan)

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Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by Remus West » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:53 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:43 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:52 am
Put it this way, to some Kurd (or Turk or Ukrainian or whoever) I'm an American and Trump is my president. The nuances of how that happened don't really matter to them. And it's a shameful place to be.
This. I am ill to my soul. To me, I am an American and Trump is my president. The Senate is my Senate. And my very existence isn't threatened (yet) as are entire peoples in Ukraine and Syria whose long standing agreements are now subject to the whims of the most powerful a sociopath in the world. It's beyond shame. Nearly every day I wake up the stress that "we are the baddies" and my vote and my voice is all I reasonably have. I don't even have the courage to refuse to pay my taxes. I am ashamed. As much as I've had disagreements and been angered at the tyranny of the minority, I've never felt the shame and the stress of shame at being an American until these last couple of years. When I see all these tags that pop up as "patriot" this and that, I actually think it now conjures the exact opposite emotion of what is intended in me and it leads to my distrust. The very word "patriot" reminds me of my shame.

This isn't hyperbole.
You are not alone.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

malchior
Posts: 9037
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: The Trump foreign policy thread

Post by malchior » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:35 pm

This is some cynical shit.
President Donald Trump confirmed Thursday that senior al Qaeda bomb maker and terrorist coordinator Ibrahim al-Asiri was killed two years ago by US forces in Yemen.

The White House made the announcement as the President faces a news cycle dominated by bipartisan criticism over his decision to withdraw US troops from northern Syria and new developments in the controversy over Trump's efforts to push Ukraine for dirt on political rivals that have prompted an impeachment inquiry.

...

In August 2018, CNN reported that US officials expressed "confidence" al-Asiri was killed in a counter terrorism operation.
A UN report released the month prior also said al-Asiri was likely killed.

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