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Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Little Raven
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Little Raven »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:19 pmYou can cut that wage by 80% in my neck of the woods, be a minor trust fund baby climbing the fiscal ladder through a portfolio and upgrading to a bigger mausoleum every five years, believing in and living a suburban life of "America First." That's the 10% I'm talking about.
That's bad news though. Not many people make 300K+ a year, but 60K+?

Yeah that's much bigger number. :|
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Little Raven »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:30 pmI meant that there are lots of people with her same attitude of "I will vote against anything that may cause me to pay one single cent more in taxes, even if it means the world burns as a result".
Oh. Well, fair enough. That's an attitude I will never understand.

To quote Holmes Jr, "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization..." and civilization has been awfully good to me.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Little Raven wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:31 pm
LordMortis wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:19 pmYou can cut that wage by 80% in my neck of the woods, be a minor trust fund baby climbing the fiscal ladder through a portfolio and upgrading to a bigger mausoleum every five years, believing in and living a suburban life of "America First." That's the 10% I'm talking about.
That's bad news though. Not many people make 300K+ a year, but 60K+?

Yeah that's much bigger number. :|
I'm thinking more along the lines of 80 - 100k + a supplement from investments started by their parents (graduated with no debt or were all but given their "starter home" etc... Something that makes their wage less sustenance and more something to put toward their children also not starting at 0 or worse). I don't think the 60k range (here anyway) are the suburban leisurely life of "doing what's expected of me, and I'll keep mine" Trump supporters otherwise divorced from 2A Pro-Life Qanon following uneducated Fox TV watching.

According to this, in 2018, 20% fit the wage category I'm thinking of. How many live in the suburbs and are educated quiet America First, MINE!, supporters? I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I'm not sure that half is too big of a number to put on it.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statist ... -quintiles
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

Until this year, I never realized how decoupled the stock markets are from the working-class economy. As long as the markets keep going up, the 10% of us who own >80% of the stocks aren't terribly bothered by those sad headlines about lost jobs and failing businesses and evictions and hunger and lost health insurance happening to people we don't know. Put a red heart in your window and you'll feel better about it.

If trump can convince that 10% that Biden will tank the markets, they'll vote for him.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Kraken wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:18 pm Until this year, I never realized how decoupled the stock markets are from the working-class economy. As long as the markets keep going up, the 10% of us who own >80% of the stocks aren't terribly bothered by those sad headlines about lost jobs and failing businesses and evictions and hunger and lost health insurance happening to people we don't know. Put a red heart in your window and you'll feel better about it.
I had some imkling of it but there is truly something there now. For example, my company is tied to government contracts and fortune 100 companies. Most of the Fortune 100 other than the banks are pretty diversified or are global and haven't seen steep hits to their revenue. When the butcher's bill on the economy comes down it would be hard to believe that it won't fall almost entirely on small businesses. Especially restaurants and hospitality. The damage is just worsening the inequality problem.
If trump can convince that 10% that Biden will tank the markets, they'll vote for him.
I think most of them know that Biden won't tank the markets. There is little to no chance that Biden is going to undermine economic support for the wealthiest. They have a lock on both parties in that sense.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Grifman »

I've been thinking of starting this thread for a while and the election is still out there. And win or lose, the Republicans are going to have to make some decisions about their future - will it be full on Trumpism, or will saner heads prevail? And what do they do about a base that actually cares more about Trump than the party itself.

I'll start with a couple of articles. The first is Republican Senator Ben Sasse finally going public and saying what we knew almost every Republican leader was thinking:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/us/p ... trump.html

That's one path, a repudiation of Trumpism (cowardly though it was a this point when it appears the s*** is going to hit the fan). Can the party leaders save the party from itself?

But there are others. One would be fully embracing the insanity, an alliance of MAGA world and Qanon:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/1 ... ent-429739

So where do the Republicans go? Can reasonable conservatives reclaim their party? Or have they created a monster, a base so radicalized by FOX News and conspiracy theories and so far removed from reality that the old Republican Party no longer exists? Even with a Trump defeat, I can see the base flocking to Donald Trump Jr as their next savior, regardless of his electability in a general election. And if Trump wins, I'll bet right now that he's the nominee in 2024 - the Trumpist cult/base would demand it.

So what will the Republican Party do? What does their future hold?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Grifman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:04 pmSo what will the Republican Party do? What does their future hold?
As you say, there are basically two routes available for the Republicans.
  • Move back towards the traditional political center. This means ditching the alt-Right, going back to Wall Street with hat in hand, and trying to convince everyone that Trump was an aberration that will not be repeated. Hardly impossible, but not easy, either. There's been a lot of talk about how both parties have moved to the right over the last 3 decades. That's because both parties have, and frankly, the Democratic party has now spread over a whole lot of the bench where Republicans used to rest. Pushing the Democrats OUT of that space might not be easy.
  • Run off the cliff. This doesn't actually mean "move more the right" because honestly, there's nowhere else to go. So instead, think of this as "throwing the board into the air and seeing where all the pieces land." In this scenario, the Democrats actually become "the conservative party," in the sense that they will be fighting to conserve the current order, while the Republicans will transform into a party of radical reactionaries who want to burn it all down and start anew.
In normal times, the latter scenario would be all but unthinkable, but these are not normal times, and there's plenty of precedent for this sort of party realignment.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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On a less hopeful note, Trumpism is here to stay:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... e-1076713/

That said, IMO, this is a political dead end. There's nowhere to grow and the base will steadily decline. I just don't see a viable end game for the Republican Party if they continue down this path. This will permanently shift large number of suburban women to the Democrats.
Last edited by Grifman on Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone.
They can walk it back all they want but that means little to me.
I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
I will never vote for a GOP candidate in the state GOP is in and it's hard to imagine what would make me change that stance. Hard but not impossible. The democrats don't get free reign for the rest of my life to punish the effectiveness of the post teaparty republicans but the uphill battle the GOP, as a whole, has to fight to get me to recognize voting for single GOP candidate at any level would make Sysisphus look at them and go duuuude.

It sucks, as I still have some strong conservative leanings in some ways but the party has proved to me they can't handle the bigots and corrupt power mongers and their proof has demonstrated to the whole nation and the whole world that the US can't hand the bigots and corrupt power mongers. We need a sustained zero tolerance before forgiveness and trust can be established... for their party and for us a nation. 2 or 4 or 6 years of "I'm sorry baby, it'll never happen again" doesn't cut it.

For my vote you need break of the GOP and in no uncertain terms constantly disavow the bigots and zealots and power of the billionaire self interest. That's the easiest path for me align with my own political conservatism again.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pmI'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.

What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Little Raven wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:44 pm
Grifman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:04 pmSo what will the Republican Party do? What does their future hold?
As you say, there are basically two routes available for the Republicans.
  • Move back towards the traditional political center. This means ditching the alt-Right, going back to Wall Street with hat in hand, and trying to convince everyone that Trump was an aberration that will not be repeated. Hardly impossible, but not easy, either. There's been a lot of talk about how both parties have moved to the right over the last 3 decades. That's because both parties have, and frankly, the Democratic party has now spread over a whole lot of the bench where Republicans used to rest. Pushing the Democrats OUT of that space might not be easy.
I agree with most of this but disagree that both parties moved to the right. Instead the Democratic party has stretched to the middle and also has stretched to the left. The NY Times reported on an analysis that had the Democratic party aligned almost with UK Labour in 2019. They incorporated elements of Bernie's coalition since this and probably are even closer to UK Labour. In any case, this stretch has left them with a fragile and potentially weak coalition. Oddly enough I think there may be a paradox politically in a big Biden victory. The Democrats many have *too much* political capital. Everyone is going to want a piece of it. The in-fighting might become fierce.

Even in a narrow victory Biden is going to have to walk a tightrope managing that coalition. And depending on how that goes the Republicans may not even have a seat at the table. Especially if they decide to procedurally slow down the Senate or filibuster too much. The Democrats might be forced to deal with it and the in-fighting in the Democratic caucus around appropriate responses will be divisive. They face the same problem with the Supreme Court discussion. And it'll be inter-generational for extra fun.

This of course all assumes the Democrats take the Senate and the WH. If they don't well the math changes significantly. The Democratic coalition problem will still be there but the Republicans will fall back to fighting in insurgent warfare mode in the Senate and governance levels will continue to decline. They'll bide their time. All very thorny issues. And I agree the Republicans have little chance re-occupying the center territory. The gap between centrist Ds and even the most centrist R is fairly large and the Senate is lousy with tea party Republicans. McConnell might not be able to pipe line judges but they'll be investigating, investigating, investigating all day/all night and the media will be right along cheering on the chaos.

Run off the cliff. This doesn't actually mean "move more the right" because honestly, there's nowhere else to go. So instead, think of this as "throwing the board into the air and seeing where all the pieces land." In this scenario, the Democrats actually become "the conservative party," in the sense that they will be fighting to conserve the current order, while the Republicans will transform into a party of radical reactionaries who want to burn it all down and start anew. [/list]
In normal times, the latter scenario would be all but unthinkable, but these are not normal times, and there's plenty of precedent for this sort of party realignment.
This is where I have more disagreement. The GOP is already here. Again looking at the analysis from 2019. They've been insurgent and radical for years. Their party platform is to the right of almost every right-wing party in the Europe. And they have ~40% support with Trump at the helm. That is enough support to cause trouble. They'll either dissipate slowly over time, some centrists will split off and become the new republicans perhaps, or they'll explode. It's all very unpredictable.

In the end, the next 3 months may make every guess above wrong. We are heading towards a space with many, many variables all dependent on each other.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Grifman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:01 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.
I voted for Schwarzenegger for re-election as CA Gov, and would consider him for his Environmental Views, but I doubt he (or anyone like him) would ever run on a (current) GOP ticket again. I did get burned by that vote when he unveiled his ALEC package of Propositions to try to enable a GOP/Corporate monopoly on political donations tho (they all went down in flames however).

But again, the GOP, even in CA, has tilted so Authoritarian/Conspiracy Theory/Lies, that I find it extremely difficult to believe they will ever run a decent candidate ever again.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:06 pm
Grifman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:01 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.
I voted for Schwarzenegger for re-election as CA Gov, and would consider him for his Environmental Views, but I doubt he (or anyone like him) would ever run on a (current) GOP ticket again. I did get burned by that vote when he unveiled his ALEC package of Propositions to try to enable a GOP/Corporate monopoly on political donations tho (they all went down in flames however).

But again, the GOP, even in CA, has tilted so Authoritarian/Conspiracy Theory/Lies, that I find it extremely difficult to believe they will ever run a decent candidate ever again.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

If Charlie Baker runs for a third term, I'm inclined to support him.

If the existing GOP is salvageable, it will be because moderate, responsible candidates win elections. How such people ever prevail in Republican primaries eludes me, but sometimes they do.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Jaymann wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:45 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:06 pm
Grifman wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:01 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm My opinion on the matter is likely worthless, but I'm of the opinion that the GOP is forever DOA. They've made their choice and they don't get to walk it back when Trump is gone. I'll never vote for a GOP candidate in any capacity as long as I live.
I've made the same promise to myself, though I would consider forgiving a candidate if he tool the Walk of Shame from GOT in an act of repentance.
I voted for Schwarzenegger for re-election as CA Gov, and would consider him for his Environmental Views, but I doubt he (or anyone like him) would ever run on a (current) GOP ticket again. I did get burned by that vote when he unveiled his ALEC package of Propositions to try to enable a GOP/Corporate monopoly on political donations tho (they all went down in flames however).

But again, the GOP, even in CA, has tilted so Authoritarian/Conspiracy Theory/Lies, that I find it extremely difficult to believe they will ever run a decent candidate ever again.
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For President - could still run for just about any other office.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Little Raven wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:30 pm I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.
I'm pretty confident. The GOP is now the party of white supremacists as far as I'm concerned. They had their chance but instead decided to remain silent or rally behind Trump. I cannot abide acquiescence in this scenario and I don't know what they could say or do (current party members top to bottom) to change my mind on that. Similarly I cannot imagine supporting someone that's unaffiliated and thinking, "Those openly racist politicians in D.C.? Yeah, that's the group I want to be part of." I am looking forward to figuring out how to interact with local politicians in upcoming elections and confirming their stance on white supremacy as registered (R). I live in a GOP stronghold county of NJ and anecdotally let's just say they're not convincing me they strongly disagree with Trump and what's he's said and done.
What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.
Certainly true. But I cannot forgot those that stood by in the party and did nothing for hte last 4 years. And I certainly won't hear the lamentations of any GOP member in January that's suddenly under the microscope. They're all complicit as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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And in Arkansas we have a senator (Tom Cotton) running without any Democratic opposition.
Of course this is a Republican state but it won't change if the Democrats won't try.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:53 pm
Little Raven wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:30 pm I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.
I'm pretty confident. The GOP is now the party of white supremacists as far as I'm concerned. They had their chance but instead decided to remain silent or rally behind Trump. I cannot abide acquiescence in this scenario and I don't know what they could say or do (current party members top to bottom) to change my mind on that. Similarly I cannot imagine supporting someone that's unaffiliated and thinking, "Those openly racist politicians in D.C.? Yeah, that's the group I want to be part of." I am looking forward to figuring out how to interact with local politicians in upcoming elections and confirming their stance on white supremacy as registered (R). I live in a GOP stronghold county of NJ and anecdotally let's just say they're not convincing me they strongly disagree with Trump and what's he's said and done.
What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.
Certainly true. But I cannot forgot those that stood by in the party and did nothing for hte last 4 years. And I certainly won't hear the lamentations of any GOP member in January that's suddenly under the microscope. They're all complicit as far as I'm concerned.
There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit. So none of us should forget and the GOP needs to be taught that willing collaboration with someone who will turn the US into a raging dumpster fire for political power will cost you in 2022, 2024, however long it takes.

And if there are Democrats who aren't willing to step up and start thinking about new solutions to some pretty big problems we're facing now, not 10 or 20 years from now but right now in the form of climate change, income inequality, racial injustice, then they can get booted too when the primaries come around. Feinstein can go sip mint juleps with Graham in their retirement when they are booted out of the Senate.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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$iljanus wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:59 am There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit.
Just note for the future, the next Senate elections favor the Democrats once again. If they do well in this election and Biden turns things around, a 60 seat super majority might not be out of reach.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Grifman wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:18 pm
$iljanus wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:59 am There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit.
Just note for the future, the next Senate elections favor the Democrats once again. If they do well in this election and Biden turns things around, a 60 seat super majority might not be out of reach.
Yup. I posted this in another thread some days ago:
Plus, in the 2022 senate races the Dems will be defending 12 almost entirely safe seats while Republicans will be defending 20 seats including PA, NC, FL, OH, and WI.

This year's senate special-election terms in AZ and GA will also be ending.
If Biden and the Dems do well enough to succeed in the 2022 midterms, and if the stink of Trump and extremism are still on the GOP, 2022 could really be the end of the Republican Party.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

$iljanus wrote:
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:53 pm
Little Raven wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:30 pm I wouldn't bind yourself TOO tightly to that promise, my friend. With any luck, you'll be voting for another 40 years. There's no telling where the parties will go in that time.
I'm pretty confident. The GOP is now the party of white supremacists as far as I'm concerned. They had their chance but instead decided to remain silent or rally behind Trump. I cannot abide acquiescence in this scenario and I don't know what they could say or do (current party members top to bottom) to change my mind on that. Similarly I cannot imagine supporting someone that's unaffiliated and thinking, "Those openly racist politicians in D.C.? Yeah, that's the group I want to be part of." I am looking forward to figuring out how to interact with local politicians in upcoming elections and confirming their stance on white supremacy as registered (R). I live in a GOP stronghold county of NJ and anecdotally let's just say they're not convincing me they strongly disagree with Trump and what's he's said and done.
What's important is not voting GOP in THIS election.
Certainly true. But I cannot forgot those that stood by in the party and did nothing for hte last 4 years. And I certainly won't hear the lamentations of any GOP member in January that's suddenly under the microscope. They're all complicit as far as I'm concerned.
There are more than enough GOP politicians who are up for election in 2022 that have rode Trump's coat tails and said nothing or actively bought into his toxic bullshit. So none of us should forget and the GOP needs to be taught that willing collaboration with someone who will turn the US into a raging dumpster fire for political power will cost you in 2022, 2024, however long it takes.

And if there are Democrats who aren't willing to step up and start thinking about new solutions to some pretty big problems we're facing now, not 10 or 20 years from now but right now in the form of climate change, income inequality, racial injustice, then they can get booted too when the primaries come around. Feinstein can go sip mint juleps with Graham in their retirement when they are booted out of the Senate.
Also, the ones who have verbally spoken of doubts have through their actions shown those doubts to just be lies. Or outright flipped - Cruz, Graham, etc. McCain and Amash have been the *only* GOP politicians whose actions have matched their words.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Senator Johnson went on Fox News and Maria Bartiromo served up QAnon friendly questions that hints that there is a child porn angle around Hunter Biden's "alleged laptops". This is ugly stuff folks.

Last edited by malchior on Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Those are some corroded, rancid straws they are grasping at.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

The whole child porn accusation thing is particularly scary because it's one of the few issues where you're almost always considered guilty until proven innocent.

I knew a guy who was going through an ugly divorce several years ago, and his wife leveled "sexual abuse of his daughter" accusations on him. He was arrested, it was leaked to the media, and he lost his job. Cut to a couple of years later - investigations turn up absolutely nothing, charges are dropped, and daughter even admits that nothing happened and her mom had coached her to lie about it. He wound up getting custody of his daughter after his wife had been proven mentally ill.

You think the media covered his exoneration? Or that it would have even mattered if it had? Not a chance. His life was basically ruined the minute his wife leveled the accusation. He went from having a solid well-paying career to working multiple part-time jobs to pay off mountains of legal debt. And the stigma has never gone away - I've talked to co-workers who still think he did something, even though there's absolutely no proof and he was 100% cleared.

It doesn't surprise me that the far right would resort to such underhanded tactics. It's one of the most insidiously evil things you can accuse someone of because once it's out there's no walking it back. They know exactly what they are doing.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Isgrimnur »

There needs to be a way for politicians to pursue slander against shit like this.
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RunningMn9
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by RunningMn9 »

Russian disinformation 101. Plant child porn.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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hepcat
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by hepcat »

I really, really hope this blows up in Giuliani’s face and he does hard time for being involved with Russian agents. The sheer depths that rat is willing to sink to boggles the mind.
I beat a camel to death with a monkey. Can I do that?
-Mr Bismarck

You have to whack a few rabbits before you are ready to punch a camel.
-Coopasonic

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Holman
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

This isn't even the first time Ron Johnson has been willing to launder Russian disinformation.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Pyperkub
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Pyperkub »

Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:48 pm There needs to be a way for politicians to pursue slander against shit like this.
Who do you sue?

Note that there is a lot that is very squirrelly about this alleged data. Check this thread:
This Hunter Biden laptop story is fucked.

Docs show the laptop was dropped on Apr 12, 2019. They also show an external drive and its serial number.

Western Digital’s web site says that drive’s **3-year** warranty expires Apr 18, 2022…meaning it was manufactured Apr *18*, 2019...

...UPDATE: It’s unclear why, but Western Digital’s warranty tracker now shows May 17, 2022 as the expiration date for its three year warranty, but still indicates that no registration/dated proof of purchase was provided (the edit icon goes away when a WD drive is registered).
Also, look at the receipts - what "repair shop" only gets the customer's iCloud and cell number, and not a home address, etc. ?

What seems more likely is that this data could have been poached from his iCloud account, and possibly salted with misinformation.

A LOT more investigation/forensic info is required here...
Hell, the emails were “printed” to PDF in October 2019, according to metadata in the PDF files linked by the NY Post story. Six months after the computer was allegedly dropped off by someone who may or may not be Hunter Biden.
Basically, there isn’t one part of their story that holds even a small amount of water.

You know what does “fit” the narrative, though?

Some sketchy dude overcharged his customer (whom he didn’t recognize at first) for “recovery” (making a backup of a working drive)
He realized what a treasure trove he had, and gave up the goods to Rudy’s lawyer for a cash payment. From there, they used their numerous (a and documented) connections to foreign nationals to mix some choice forgeries into the other legitimate data on the (backup) drive.
There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
malchior
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

This is the Spokesperson for the RNC cheering on Trump calling a member of the media a criminal for not pushing propaganda. Burn it down. It's hopeless.

malchior
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

malchior wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 pmBurn it down. It's hopeless.
NY Times
Of all the things President Trump has destroyed, the Republican Party is among the most dismaying.

“Destroyed” is perhaps too simplistic, though. It would be more precise to say that Mr. Trump accelerated his party’s demise, exposing the rot that has been eating at its core for decades and leaving it a hollowed-out shell devoid of ideas, values or integrity, committed solely to preserving its own power even at the expense of democratic norms, institutions and ideals.

Tomato, tomahto. However you characterize it, the Republican Party’s dissolution under Mr. Trump is bad for American democracy.

A healthy political system needs robust, competing parties to give citizens a choice of ideological, governing and policy visions. More specifically, center-right parties have long been crucial to the health of modern liberal democracies, according to the Harvard political scientist Daniel Ziblatt’s study of the emergence of democracy in Western Europe. Among other benefits, a strong center right can co-opt more palatable aspects of the far right, isolating and draining energy from the more radical elements that threaten to destabilize the system.

Today’s G.O.P. does not come close to serving this function. It has instead allowed itself to be co-opted and radicalized by Trumpism. Its ideology has been reduced to a slurry of paranoia, white grievance and authoritarian populism. Its governing vision is reactionary, a cross between obstructionism and owning the libs. Its policy agenda, as defined by the party platform, is whatever President Trump wants — which might not be so pathetic if Mr. Trump’s interests went beyond “Build a wall!”

“There is no philosophical underpinning for the Republican Party anymore,” the veteran strategist Reed Galen recently lamented to this board. A co-founder of the Lincoln Project, a political action committee run by current and former Republicans dedicated to defeating Mr. Trump and his enablers, Mr. Galen characterized the party as a self-serving, power-hungry gang.

...

But many of these disillusioned Republicans also acknowledge that their team has been descending into white grievance, revanchism and know-nothing populism for decades. Mr. Trump just greased the slide. “He is the logical conclusion of what the Republican Party has become in the last 50 or so years,” the longtime party strategist Stuart Stevens asserts in his new book, “It Was All a Lie.”

The scars of Mr. Trump’s presidency will linger long after he leaves office. Some Republicans believe that, if those scars run only four years deep, rather than eight, their party can be nursed back to health. Others question whether there is anything left worth saving. Mr. Stevens’s prescription: “Burn it to the ground, and start over.”
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Carpet_pissr »

HIGHLY recommend listening to this whole thing from The Takeaway. Tanzina Vega interviews Michael Steele, former RNC head, and current Lincoln Project....member.

Some really great insight into the future of the party and why establishment GOP'ers still in office have basically buckled instead of standing up.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/ta ... n-election
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