Election integrity and the transfer of power

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:55 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:29 pm The right are also losing their mind because an aide to Loeffler who had family ties to Kemp's family died in a horrific 3-car crash. Tweet below as reference. So let's get this straight -- some non-specific someone or entity killed the 20-year old boyfriend of the Governor's daughter...why? They are all fucking loons. Everything is a deep dark conspiracy.

There is no question you can ask that they won't have an answer for:

Are we really going to do this? I don't want to do this. Damn, USA.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:01 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:47 pm There is certainly plenty of craziness going on, but I wonder....is anyone seeing this in real life, as opposed to on social media?

I ask because I've been reaching out to my Republican friends, and I haven't encountered one of them that buys into any of this crap, much less one who is willing to start shooting. Admittedly, I'm not in the habit of making friends who are literally crazy, but I am in Texas, where you would expect this kind of thing to be rampant.

My neighbor over here in Westlake just slapped a QANON sticker on her car :/

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:07 pm

Well that's not encouraging. I really wish I'd bought more ammo when I had the chance.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:27 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:47 pm There is certainly plenty of craziness going on, but I wonder....is anyone seeing this in real life, as opposed to on social media?

I ask because I've been reaching out to my Republican friends, and I haven't encountered one of them that buys into any of this crap, much less one who is willing to start shooting. Admittedly, I'm not in the habit of making friends who are literally crazy, but I am in Texas, where you would expect this kind of thing to be rampant.

My dad thinks mail in voting is ripe for fraud, full well knowing that I voted by mail and not for Trump. He's 80 and won't actually do anything beyond that.

Amongst my other Republican friends, this particular topic hasn't come up so I don't know if they're all off the deep end on this or not. Some of them are 100% never Trumpers, though, so I know they find it all batshit crazy.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:30 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:47 pm There is certainly plenty of craziness going on, but I wonder....is anyone seeing this in real life, as opposed to on social media?

I ask because I've been reaching out to my Republican friends, and I haven't encountered one of them that buys into any of this crap, much less one who is willing to start shooting. Admittedly, I'm not in the habit of making friends who are literally crazy, but I am in Texas, where you would expect this kind of thing to be rampant.

When I visited my parents (including my dying father) in south Alabama a couple of months back, I was worried about what I would find. Dad was a good man but also a lifelong movement Conservative who probably bought every book Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter ever put out. I had barely visited their house at all during the Trump era, and though we frequently talked on the phone we always avoided politics. Coming into the house again after four years, I was worried that I might see signs of QAnon indoctrination.

Fortunately I didn't. Dad's bookshelves had added a few more Fox-pundit titles since I'd seen them last, but there was only a token amount of explicitly pro-Trump (anti-Obama, really) material, and there were no indications anywhere that the Grand Conspiracy was in the house.

I also talked to some of my parents' friends: people who dropped off meals while Dad was bedridden, people who gave me rides to and from the airport. While everyone was firmly conservative and Evangelical, and they seemed to assume I was too, no one said anything that would have sounded utterly insane in 2010 or 2014. They supported Trump, but they didn't worship him. They thought Covid was damaging his prospects for re-election, but they wore masks when visiting and appeared to believe the virus was real.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:46 pm

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:38 pm

An entire political party is NOT fine with this madness.

Republicans at the national level have mostly stayed quiet during President Trump's monthlong baseless crusade against November's election results. But at the state and county level, it has been a different story.

Local election administrators, most of whom are elected along partisan lines, are in charge of the nuts and bolts of voting in America's decentralized elections system.

In many cases, it has been Republican officials who have held firm in their position that the results were not tainted by a widespread cheating scheme, despite a pressure campaign by the president unlike any in American history.

This is, in fact, ripping the GOP apart at the seams. Which they quite honestly deserve. Let's hope this is a lesson to everyone going forward.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:00 pm

The next stage is what's terrible: local officials willing to go along with not only vote suppression but election fraud.

The Georgia situation is actually pretty remarkable. Governor Kemp won his office (vs. Stacey Abrams) by acting as SoS to his own election and applying very significant vote suppression to urban areas. Liberals in Georgia consider him to have stolen his own governorship, but this time he's apparently unwilling to go as far as invalidating votes that were actually cast.

It's a thin bar to rely on. It's not hard to imagine someone breaking it the next time the party demands it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:50 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:38 pmThis is, in fact, ripping the GOP apart at the seams.

To what effect? There will be little to no impact to their coalition and they will still be turning their attention to gerrymandering and reducing voting rights. To leap frog off Holman's point, maybe it will be the risk he points out or alternatively it won't be officials who just break the rules but instead they'll just change the rules to make sure it is very hard to lose.

Dramatist · Post by **Dramatist** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:00 pm

Little Raven wrote:There is certainly plenty of craziness going on, but I wonder....is anyone seeing this in real life, as opposed to on social media?

I ask because I've been reaching out to my Republican friends, and I haven't encountered one of them that buys into any of this crap, much less one who is willing to start shooting. Admittedly, I'm not in the habit of making friends who are literally crazy, but I am in Texas, where you would expect this kind of thing to be rampant.

I overheard a bit of a conversation between a couple of customers at work today. It was mostly one man I heard. He must have run into a friend/acquaintance in the aisles of Home Depot. I overheard him talking about election stealing and that Pelosi and all the others should be shot. Also he ended the conversation by saying “I hope you have a good Christmas. Kill a liberal.”

I wasn’t even on the same aisle so this was all said loudly.

This is in a Houston suburb.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:02 am

Long thread of bonkers highlights from Trump's Georgia rally last night.

It was supposed to be a rally in support of Perdue and Loeffler, but Trump spent nearly the entire time complaining that the November election had been stolen from him and insisting that state legislatures give him their electors.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:49 am

Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

45 DAYS

Victims; victims everywhere!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:37 pm

Rudy has tested positive for COVID-19 .

Is it weird that I feel kind of sorry for Covid?

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:02 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:50 pmTo what effect?

Hard to say. The Republican coalition is much narrower than the Democratic one, but it's still a coalition. The Cult of Trump is not big enough to win elections on their own, and worse - cultists make very bad administrators, no matter how driven they are. Add in the fact that the Cult of Trump has not only abandoned compromise, but reality, and you're left with a party that will struggle to win, and even when it does win, will struggle to deliver anything. I mean, two Georgia Senate seats after a Democratic Presidential win should be a slam dunk for the GOP, but it's not looking that way right now.

We talk a lot about how hard it's going to be for the Democrats to keep their coalition together, and it WILL be hard, but at least the Democrats don't have a seagull manager flying in to crap over everything they try to do.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:22 am

Little Raven wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:02 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:50 pmTo what effect?
Hard to say. The Republican coalition is much narrower than the Democratic one, but it's still a coalition. The Cult of Trump is not big enough to win elections on their own, and worse - cultists make very bad administrators, no matter how driven they are.

It doesn't matter to them. They don't care about good governance. If there is anything we've learned in the last 4 years it is the GOP gives no shits about good government. They care about wielding power.

Worse, the cult isn't going anywhere and there is a good chance it'll pass along to someone else even if he fell over dead. Though there is a small chance the cult will collapse in the coming months but it probably won't. And the idea that they aren't big enough to win is a strange one considering Trump nearly stayed in power despite losing by ~7 Million votes. They can win and the counter majoritarian power they wield is *concentrating* over time unless a ton of people decide to start moving.

Add in the fact that the Cult of Trump has not only abandoned compromise, but reality, and you're left with a party that will struggle to win, and even when it does win, will struggle to deliver anything. I mean, two Georgia Senate seats after a Democratic Presidential win should be a slam dunk for the GOP, but it's not looking that way right now.

Did you miss the time the GOP replaced 1/3 of the judiciary over the last 4 years. Or how they looted the nation and tilted the board even more in the favor of the wealthy. And that is an abbreviated list. They accomplished a lot.

We talk a lot about how hard it's going to be for the Democrats to keep their coalition together, and it WILL be hard, but at least the Democrats don't have a seagull manager flying in to crap over everything they try to do.

It's crazy but it also doesn't matter much. Let's say that the GOP loses both seats in GA then they have a negotiated session in the Senate and McConnell has no reason to play ball. The VP will have to live in the Senate which is its own problem. And even then the GOP still will have the filibuster. They'll just fallback into obstruction mode.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:47 am

Mitch won. If that POS greedy stingy old goat can win you know the GOP can get away with a lot.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:57 am

Daehawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:47 am Mitch won. If that POS greedy stingy old goat can win you know the GOP can get away with a lot.

How can we know he won? What with the rampant election fraud and all.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:50 am

Daehawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:47 am Mitch won. If that POS greedy stingy old goat can win you know the GOP can get away with a lot.

Of course Mitch won. As if any other outcome in that race was realistically possible.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:55 am

Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

44 DAYS

Another day, another Kraken lawsuit smacked down, this time in Michigan.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:12 pm

The Kraken got smacked down emphatically in both Michigan and Georgia this morning.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:20 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:22 amIt doesn't matter to them. They don't care about good governance.

It doesn't matter to Trumpists, but they're only one leg of the stool. Wall Street Executives and big money donors most definitely want a certain degree of competence in government.

And the idea that they aren't big enough to win is a strange one considering Trump nearly stayed in power despite losing by ~7 Million votes.

Sure, but that was back when Kemp and Trump were on the same side. The alliance between the Cult and rank-and-file GOP officials is what is currently breaking down.

Did you miss the time the GOP replaced 1/3 of the judiciary over the last 4 years.

Did you miss how that hasn't helped Trump at all? Conservative judges are conservative, but they're still judges. They're not going to throw the system out to accommodate a Cult.

They'll just fallback into obstruction mode.

I have no doubt, but how is the larger GOP supposed to hold itself together if Trump is out on the news every night complaining that everything is rigged and the GOP threw him under the bus? That'll make the Democratic infighting look tame by comparison.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:27 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:55 am Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

44 DAYS

Another day, another Kraken lawsuit smacked down, this time in Michigan.

your countdown is more exciting than the Christmas countdowns I see on Facebook.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:03 pm

Lassr wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:27 pm
Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:55 am Countdown to Biden inauguration as President:

44 DAYS

Another day, another Kraken lawsuit smacked down, this time in Michigan.
your countdown is more exciting than the Christmas countdowns I see on Facebook.

Agreed, but can you speed it up a bit, Jaymann? This current season sucks and I'd rather just move on to the next one.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:20 pm Wall Street Executives and big money donors most definitely want a certain degree of competence in government

Given various recent elections, I am more skeptical than ever about the importance of large amounts of money in politics (or at least for election campaigning - there could well be other areas where it's more useful). While it may be useful for very low levels of funding (before there's a diminishing returns on the helpfulness of more money), I think presidential, senatorial and probably even most of the competitive House races go past that point. And small dollar donations already comprise a significant percentage of the amount of money raised (around 40-50% for Biden and Trump).

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:51 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:20 pm Wall Street Executives and big money donors most definitely want a certain degree of competence in government
Given various recent elections, I am more skeptical than ever about the importance of large amounts of money in politics (or at least for election campaigning - there could well be other areas where it's more useful). While it may be useful for very low levels of funding (before there's a diminishing returns on the helpfulness of more money), I think presidential, senatorial and probably even most of the competitive House races go past that point. And small dollar donations already comprise a significant percentage of the amount of money raised (around 40-50% for Biden and Trump).

That's for elections; not getting what you want by bribing lobbying Congress.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:11 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:26 pmGiven various recent elections, I am more skeptical than ever about the importance of large amounts of money in politics (or at least for election campaigning - there could well be other areas where it's more useful).

I agree completely, but as you say, political parties need money for a lot more than just campaigning. Maintaining a national party infrastructure is EXPENSIVE, and while small donors are quite happy to pony up for individual candidates that excite them, I suspect the GOP does not want to rely on them to fund the boring day to day stuff. The Cult of Trump alone will not a successful party make.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:14 pm

CNN

Where President Donald Trump decides to spend the final weeks of his presidency has become a matter of internal speculation as aides wonder whether he'll leave the White House for the holidays -- and never return.

At this stage, there are plans for Trump to remain at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach over Christmas and New Year's, but the guidance offered to staffers ends there, people familiar with the plans said.

Trump could return to Washington for the final days on his term. But there have also been some discussions about the President and the first lady remaining in Florida and not coming back to the White House, a White House official said.

The talks are fluid and no plan is set at this point, officials cautioned. Sources at Mar-a-Lago and in Washington both indicated there is nothing currently on the calendar for the first couple to remain in Florida after New Years.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:16 pm

BI

President Donald Trump is planning a spectacular, made-for-TV exit from the White House in a bid to steal viewers from President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration, Axios reported on Sunday, citing sources familiar with the talks.

According to the report, one scenario being discussed is Trump boycotting Biden's inauguration — in a break with America's democratic traditions — and attending a rally in Florida.

Under that plan, the report said, Trump would leave the White House on January 20 in Marine One, then take Air Force One to Florida, where he would address supporters at a rally timed to coincide with Biden's socially distanced inauguration outside the US Capitol.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:25 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:57 am
Daehawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:47 am Mitch won. If that POS greedy stingy old goat can win you know the GOP can get away with a lot.
How can we know he won? What with the rampant election fraud and all.

Maybe we should find someone to file a crap ton of baseless claims to nullify Kentucky's election process.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:46 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:16 pm BI

President Donald Trump is planning a spectacular, made-for-TV exit from the White House in a bid to steal viewers from President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration, Axios reported on Sunday, citing sources familiar with the talks.

According to the report, one scenario being discussed is Trump boycotting Biden's inauguration — in a break with America's democratic traditions — and attending a rally in Florida.

Under that plan, the report said, Trump would leave the White House on January 20 in Marine One, then take Air Force One to Florida, where he would address supporters at a rally timed to coincide with Biden's socially distanced inauguration outside the US Capitol.

Would be great if Marine One was magically unavailable right before transport and Trump had to secure private transportation to FL after being escorted the F off of White House property.

I've said it before and will continue to say it - F Trump, F his enablers and F the people that voted for him.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:52 pm

But how do you feel about McConnell? I'm a bit fuzzy on that...

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:54 pm

Adam Klasfeld
@KlasfeldReports

New:

Lame duck President Donald Trump AND outgoing VP Mike Pence sue POTUS-elect Biden and VP-elect Kamala Harris to set aside the vote in two counties with Wisconsin's most people of color.

Just a hunch, but I doubt if Biden and Harris have authority to set aside any votes.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:25 pm

There's a tradition that the outgoing president is allowed to fly home on Air Force One even after the new president is sworn in. It's a grant of one last perk of office, as the old president is traditionally present for the new one's inauguration.

If Trump doesn't attend, he shouldn't get the ride.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:35 pm

I suspect with social distancing at Biden / Harris inauguration that it will appear to be a small thin crowd and Trump will jump on it bragging about how much larger his was.

Jaymon · Post by **Jaymon** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:39 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:25 pm There's a tradition that the outgoing president is allowed to fly home on Air Force One even after the new president is sworn in. It's a grant of one last perk of office, as the old president is traditionally present for the new one's inauguration.

If Trump doesn't attend, he shouldn't get the ride.

Biden and team will do everything by-the-book presidential, offering no slights that trump can grasp onto and publicly denounce. All forms will be followed to the utmost professionalism, they know exactly how lawyer happy the opponent is.

I am certain they know exactly how many micrograms of force the secret service is allowed to apply when prying trumps fingers off the doorframe of the white house if he refuses to leave, and how far down the sidewalk they are allowed to chuck him.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:45 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:25 pmIf Trump doesn't attend, he shouldn't get the ride.

Particularly to take him to a goddamn hate rally the day of inauguration. He's like the patron saint of classless, egotistical maniacs.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:48 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:45 pm patron saint of classless, egotistical maniacs.

Now synonymous with "President of the United States of America".

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:49 pm

There's a tradition that the outgoing president is allowed to fly home on Air Force One even after the new president is sworn in.

I didn't know Sing Sing had a runway.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:56 pm

Of course what Trump will do is arrange to have his flight land an hour before Biden's ceremony so that the plane is still technically his. Since he'll do the rally at his new home in Mar-a-Lago, he won't have to fly out.

It'll be fun to see how New Yorkers treat Trump Tower from now on, though.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:08 pm

He should only have it until the exact time he is out. Then it should take off and return home no matter where he is or if he is in it.