Can authoritarianism exist on the left?

[hepcat]

Whew, I don't feel THAT old now.

[Drazzil]

Especially if he manages to pwn the R's. The lower he can drag em the better. Turn the carceral state on them for a change.

You do realize that this attitude is exactly what fucked us in the first place, right? It's just maintaining the nightmare instead of solving anything. Going back to mutually assured destruction is that appealing?

I believe that the lack of turning the carceral state on the 1% is exactly why we are here in the first place. Not to use it to kick the shit out of em will just ensure more of this sort of thing happens in the future.

Everything else aside, you're not going to be able to target your revenge plans against the 1%. You're going to be hitting the street level voters, who will then turn around and give us another Trump promising them revenge against us. Back and forth, back and forth. And that's the easiest, laziest way to guarantee everyone loses.

Only if bizarro trump is stupid enough to let power go. I'd hope to god our Jan 6 would succeed.

[hepcat]

Aren't you glad you voted for Trump?

[Drazzil]

Aren't you glad you voted for Trump?

If he brings the revolution about one second sooner, then yes. Trump really did what I wanted him to. He pulled the mask off for everyone to see. Exposed the moral bankruptcy of the system for everyone to see. Now everyone knows what the Republicans are. He also showed people what the Democrats are.

Both sides are corrupt, craven, and fundamentally less then useless, in different ways.

[hepcat]

I still am curious to see how you'll react when you find out you're a victim of the revolution you keep begging for.

[Blackhawk]

You seem to take a great deal of delight in other peoples' suffering.

[Holman]

Drazzil seems to assume that any violent political revolution somehow necessarily serves the common good.

He should remember that the last violent revolution we saw in this country was launched in the name of preserving slavery and white supremacy, and that Trump's movement is aimed at giving all that another try.

[Blackhawk]

And he should learn what a violent revolution actually does to human beings. Maybe read a book before spouting off.

[Drazzil]

Drazzil seems to assume that any violent political revolution somehow necessarily serves the common good.

He should remember that the last violent revolution we saw in this country was launched in the name of preserving slavery and white supremacy, and that Trump's movement is aimed at giving all that another try.

And because we let them up too easily we find ourselves having to fight yet *ANOTHER* civil war. Why it's almost like appeasement doesn't work, Funny that.

[Kraken]

When I was a teenager I spouted a lot of HULK SMASH GOVERNMENT rhetoric. One day my dad asked me what we revolutionaries were going to put in its place and how we were going to do that. Even as the words "we'll figure that out when the time comes" were leaving my lips, I knew he was right. I hated when my dad was right so I kept on rooting for anarchy anyway, but my heart wasn't in it anymore. The system that gave us Nixon and Vietnam and Watergate was rotten, but it took me a long time to understand that us little people wouldn't survive having no system at all.

[Drazzil]

When I was a teenager I spouted a lot of HULK SMASH GOVERNMENT rhetoric. One day my dad asked me what we revolutionaries were going to put in its place and how we were going to do that. Even as the words "we'll figure that out when the time comes" were leaving my lips, I knew he was right. I hated when my dad was right so I kept on rooting for anarchy anyway, but my heart wasn't in it anymore. The system that gave us Nixon and Vietnam and Watergate was rotten, but it took me a long time to understand that us little people wouldn't survive having no system at all.

You know. When I talk about exercising violence against a relatively small group of people, people totally lose their shit. But when the system those people run kills tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands in a day, it's met not with a call for revolution or reform... But in a collective shrug and the platitude that we're better off in the system then not have one at all. Odd.

[Blackhawk]

You know. When I talk about exercising violence against a relatively small group of people, people totally lose their shit.

Because if you think that it would actually work that way, you're delusional. You engage in violence against a small group of people. What do you think their supporters respond with? And against whom? And if we replace that small group of people with people we like and the other people don't like them? Do you think they'll wait for an election after what we did?

Violence grows.

[Victoria Raverna]

That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.

[Drazzil]

That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.

[Unagi]

That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.

LMFTFY

In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.

Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.

Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?

I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.

If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.


I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.

[hepcat]

You know. When I talk about exercising violence against a relatively small group of people, people totally lose their shit.

By not blowing it all up and causing untold harm to millions of people.

That's not an answer.

Edit for and this plan o mine would UNDOUBTEDLY cause some sort of harm to billions of people, not millions.

As kraken noted, most of us grow out of our naive romanticism of revolution. I hope someday you do as well. The reality of it is horrifying. Far more so than even the ridiculously over exaggerated view of our current world you seem to have.

[Kurth]

Drazzil epitomizes the lefty version of a Trumpaloo (and, to be clear, he’s not alone out here in Portland). There is next to no difference between the two. Can’t you just picture Drazzil at a Bizzaro Lefty Trump rally cheering as some conservative heckler gets the shit kicked out of him?

[Drazzil]

Drazzil epitomizes the lefty version of a Trumpaloo (and, to be clear, he’s not alone out here in Portland). There is next to no difference between the two. Can’t you just picture Drazzil at a Bizzaro Lefty Trump rally cheering as some conservative heckler gets the shit kicked out of him?

*Waves a Bizzaro lefty Trump 24 flag*

[Drazzil]

That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.

LMFTFY

In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.

Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.

Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?

I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.

If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.


I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.

I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.

[Alefroth]

So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.

I doubt that. I see you sitting in the restaurant eating your shit sandwich and encouraging someone to burn the kitchen down while the owners are filing the insurance claim.

[hepcat]

I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.

Someday you may realize it’s because you yourself keep ordering the shit sandwich. Most of us here are ordering the hamburger…well, except me. I’m eating the Monte Cristo.

[Grifman]

Heh, I didn't coin the term "Bizzaro Trump" here but I'm glad I gave everyone the vision of this alternative leftist nightmare to mull on

[Zarathud]

Someday you may realize it’s because you yourself keep ordering the shit sandwich. Most of us here are ordering the hamburger…well, except me. I’m eating the Monte Cristo.

With a side of fried sauerkraut balls. Damn, I miss Barley’s.

[hepcat]

They tried to serve RMC and I reubens made with white bread not rye this year. I had to pull him off the waiter after he fashioned a shiv from his dinner knife and went after him.

[Zarathud]

What?!? I’m with RMC — that’s a hanging offense.

[geezer]

I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.

Someday you may realize it’s because you yourself keep ordering the shit sandwich.

This.

[Pyperkub]

That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.

LMFTFY

In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.

Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.

Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?

I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.

If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.


I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.

The Grandmaster had this to say:



It's important to remember that.

[Drazzil]

Drazzil seems to assume that any violent political revolution somehow necessarily serves the common good.

He should remember that the last violent revolution we saw in this country was launched in the name of preserving slavery and white supremacy, and that Trump's movement is aimed at giving all that another try.

It usually serves someone's common good.

[Drazzil]

That was what started communist governments. The peasants think it is not fair that some people are richer and more successful so they slaughter or jail the rich and elite then replace them with a new sets of elite ruling party. End result, the regular peasants are still being oppressed and mostly have it worse than before the revolution. Except this time, you can't protest because the government will throw you in jail for doing that.

LMFTFY

In any case, I knew you were unashamed of your Trump vote, and I was pretty sure you’d be capable of doing it again.

Truth is, you have no solution. You don’t like what’s for dinner and you are willing to burn the kitchen down. Ah yes, but you don’t like shopping for food and you can’t be bothered to cook.

Let’s say you got your dream, and let’s say all of Congress, President , and the entire judicial community was snapped out of existence....Thanos style... What/who do you think would suddenly go up in their place? How would you guide or direct that new reality away from our current situation?

I don’t think you have a single idea there. And that’s why everyone thinks your ‘burn it down’ solution is so stupid and juvenile.

If you are paying attention, just about all of us think this system is indeed broken in one way or another.


I’ll say this: I also feel like some things would be helped if only a few key people would indeed - die. But in my head, it’s kinda critical that they just ‘die’ and are not killed as martyrs for their cause, because I’m not an idiot and I understand how that would play out.

I don't like what's for dinner cause I keep getting shit sandwiches and everyone gets hamburger. People tell me I should keep voting for the kitchen but I know that regardless of what else changes. I'm still only getting shit sandwiches. So I'm gonna burn down that kitchen. Yes.

You know Trump prolly got my mom killed during early COVID right? And that I said I would never vote for Trump again right?

Bizarro Lefty Trump? That dude's the shit. I'd campaign for him, donate to him, canvas and volunteer for Mr. or Ms. Bizarro lefty Trump (Because who says it's gotta be a man right? "Grab em by the Balls and or Dick?") I'd take a few months of my life off to work unpaid for BLT. Then I would be as vocal as I could tha BLT didn't want to leave the kitchen for as long as he wanted to stay, cause I like BLT a lot better then shit sandwiches.

Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.

[Smoove_B]

Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.

It's like you didn't watch Westworld...or I guess read Shakespeare.

These violent delights have violent ends

[Drazzil]

Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.

It's like you didn't watch Westworld...or I guess read Shakespeare.

These violent delights have violent ends

This time when the successor (an adult child perhaps?) of our late and dearly departed BLT decides to go back to war with the same forces of hate and conservativism they don't end reconstruction early.

[Drazzil]

Hell. I might even show up to a Jan 6 for BLT. Hopefully this time would go differently. Why? Because for the supreme court and M4A and a green new deal it would be worth it. Because someone who could do all that would be like a Lincoln or an FDR. In a century, yes in a century American historians would be debating on whether BLT had to be so mean to the conservatives when he did all of those very necessary things for the country.

It's like you didn't watch Westworld...or I guess read Shakespeare.

These violent delights have violent ends

Westworld was a bit confusing and well, the bard was always a trifle archaic.

[Drazzil]

But here's the funny part. 70 percent of Americans want the same thing. We're gonna need a populist coming from the left to break the Trumpers and chase the most committed domestic terrorists into the position to where we can Waco them.

[Unagi]

But here's the funny part. 70 percent of Americans want the same thing. We're gonna need a populist coming from the left to break the Trumpers and chase the most committed domestic terrorists into the position to where we can Waco them.

So you want your BLT, but hold the Waco?

[Alefroth]

Think he wants extra Waco.

[Drazzil]

Think he wants extra Waco.

I think I'll have a whole side of waco with my BLT. So many right wing terrorist types need to be beaten back into their sad little hidey-holes its ridiculous.

[Holman]

Waco did more to grow and radicalize the violent Right than any other event in the 1990s.

[malchior]

Waco did more to grow and radicalize the violent Right than any other event in the 1990s.

I think it was the combination of Ruby Ridge and Waco happening in such close proximity time wise. People on the right often talk about them in the same breath. It involved most of the same agencies and IIRC the FBI agent in charge was the same in both.

[Drazzil]

Waco did more to grow and radicalize the violent Right than any other event in the 1990s.

With the Waco sauce please.

Only because we shied away from Waco'ing enough of the assholes afterwards. Its like we showed them we were ready willing and able to turntheir compound or radicalizing ground into a smoking hole, only to say to ourselves, "Oh jee we oughta shy away from making the mean wacko's mad at us. We're like "The Great Satan" only he's not actually Satan at all, only a red piñata shaped like a devil.

"Something something drone a redneck wedding"

Kidding!.... mostly.

[Drazzil]

BTW Your answer is yes it absolutely could exist on the left. Although you wouldn't find many with my views. Might even be able to count em on one hand.

You won't get many people with my unique life experiences. I lost my faith in democracy. Our population is too stupid to handle democracy. Look at where it got us. The average person has absolutely no clue. We're like one minor shock away from every creaking wheel breaking at once. Now the country is starting to become gods bowling alley and you think our governments gonna last beyond one more financial collapse or ecological event?