While class is and likely always will be part of the issue, please stop drinking the Marx coolaid. What scared most people was that with Kelo, the government or anyone with enough cash/power etc. to buy off the government could just steamrole you off your land no matter what, just for the mere promise of "more tax revenue" to other private parties.Mr. Sparkle wrote:No, but only poor people got their homes taken for the Inner Harbor. That was 20 years ago.Tareeq wrote:Or are you asserting that in the 20th century only poor people had their land taken for highways?
Many Liberals have objected for decades to ED for precisely this reason... the reason why non-libertarian conservatives have joined them now is because of Kelo and the fact that the middle class is involved.
EDIT: What you think of invoking ED to rebuild New Orleans?
Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
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- Ranulf
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- Mr. Sparkle
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I still maintain that if you were poor, they already could (and did) and not many were upset. Stories like this rouse anger, because it's middle class white people.Ranulf wrote: What scared most people was that with Kelo, the government or anyone with enough cash/power etc. to buy off the government could just steamrole you off your land no matter what, just for the mere promise of "more tax revenue" to other private parties.
The majority object to abuse of what constitutes "blight"... not that the government can intervene when a neighborhood is in bad shape.
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Right, because they don't have good rules regarding what is "blight" then governments can have all sorts of silly reasons to steamrole people off their land for more revenue. Of course who largely supported Kelo and who dissented? Certainly didn't seem to be the so called party of the poor/minorities.Mr. Sparkle wrote:I still maintain that if you were poor, they already could (and did) and not many were upset. Stories like this rouse anger, because it's middle class white people.Ranulf wrote: What scared most people was that with Kelo, the government or anyone with enough cash/power etc. to buy off the government could just steamrole you off your land no matter what, just for the mere promise of "more tax revenue" to other private parties.
The majority object to abuse of what constitutes "blight"... not that the government can intervene when a neighborhood is in bad shape.
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Some states do, and some states don't. It's up to your state to determine what limits it wants on the power of eminent domain.Ranulf wrote:Right, because they don't have good rules regarding what is "blight" then governments can have all sorts of silly reasons to steamrole people off their land for more revenue. Of course who largely supported Kelo and who dissented? Certainly didn't seem to be the so called party of the poor/minorities.Mr. Sparkle wrote:I still maintain that if you were poor, they already could (and did) and not many were upset. Stories like this rouse anger, because it's middle class white people.Ranulf wrote: What scared most people was that with Kelo, the government or anyone with enough cash/power etc. to buy off the government could just steamrole you off your land no matter what, just for the mere promise of "more tax revenue" to other private parties.
The majority object to abuse of what constitutes "blight"... not that the government can intervene when a neighborhood is in bad shape.
And their are plenty of people on the left who are upset about Kelo, and eminent domain in general... you might find it upsetting that a nice middle class neighborhood is getting bulldozed to make way for a yacht club, but people on the left have opposed it for evicting poor people to build an Inner Harbor or football stadium.
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Actually almost all of the pro bono work and amici briefs opposing eminent domain of any sort over the past 30 or so years has come from people you would identify as of the "right." That includes the stadiums. The left may oppose it as you say but they don't do anything about it.Mr. Sparkle wrote:And their are plenty of people on the left who are upset about Kelo, and eminent domain in general... you might find it upsetting that a nice middle class neighborhood is getting bulldozed to make way for a yacht club, but people on the left have opposed it for evicting poor people to build an Inner Harbor or football stadium.
The NAACP is a notable exception.
The reasons left-wing groups tend not to get involved is that they don't involve themselves with property rights. They don't care.
Most poor people don't own their homes. They can be evicted when the lease runs out anyway.
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Clearly property rights are more of an issue for libertarians and Republicans than Democrats... but it seems to me that Kelo has awakened pretty wide bipartisan support for reigning in ED powers, beyond the traditional NAACP objections.Tareeq wrote:The reasons left-wing groups tend not to get involved is that they don't involve themselves with property rights. They don't care.
You should be pleased... FOX says that at least 25 States are considering bills to limit ED. Sounds like the system working as intended.
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I said that would happen months ago in the last thread, and I am pleased. You on the other hand should be mightily displeased, given your preference for a Leviathan state.Mr. Sparkle wrote:Clearly property rights are more of an issue for libertarians and Republicans than Democrats... but it seems to me that Kelo has awakened pretty wide bipartisan support for reigning in ED powers, beyond the traditional NAACP objections.
You should be pleased... FOX says that at least 25 States are considering bills to limit ED. Sounds like the system working as intended.
- Mr. Sparkle
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No, I think it's probably a good idea to limit it to "blight" and be clear on what that means... I also think it's a good idea, if you are going to bulldoze poor people's houses, to be replacing them with low income housing and not Walmart's... but I don't think it was the Supreme's job to make that value judgement, and I think that the states can handle their own bidness in that regard.Tareeq wrote: You on the other hand should be mightily displeased, given your preference for a Leviathan state.
I don't have any particular preference for the size of the State, but I do acknowledge there are things that Government can and should do that a private business beholden to shareholders never would.
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Assuming they own the land, they're paid for it. If they don't own the land they don't own anything, and they're released from the lease.Mr. Sparkle wrote:I also think it's a good idea, if you are going to bulldoze poor people's houses, to be replacing them with low income housing and not Walmart's...
There's no shortage of projects. I recently defended a case against a housing authority, brought by a woman who contended that the housing authority should have taught her child not to stick a paperclip into an electric socket, or should have designed the sockets in such a manner that it would have been impossible to insert paperclips into them.
I was appalled at her living conditions, until I saw that she was only paying $39 a month for her two bedroom apartment. Then I was just appalled.
You made a funny!I don't have any particular preference for the size of the State
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There was her mistake. She should have sued the housing authority for not providing her free electrical outlet guards and a houseboy to install them for her.Tareeq wrote:
There's no shortage of projects. I recently defended a case against a housing authority, brought by a woman who contended that the housing authority should have taught her child not to stick a paperclip into an electric socket, or should have designed the sockets in such a manner that it would have been impossible to insert paperclips into them.
<aganon spartacus>Free houseboys for all!</aganon spartacus>
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Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Oh wait....
He should file a lawsuit. Take it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary!noxiousdog wrote:More fun implications.
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
Saw a reference to this on another site and did some other searching, but the punchline is
10 years later (or 5 depending on when you're measuring), the land is still undeveloped.
Sorry it's a Fox insider link, but it's the most recent one. There's lots of corroboration over the last year.
Nice job, SCOTUS.
10 years later (or 5 depending on when you're measuring), the land is still undeveloped.
Sorry it's a Fox insider link, but it's the most recent one. There's lots of corroboration over the last year.
Nice job, SCOTUS.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
This article seems to go into more depth:
Though I think you can skim over all the "leftist media/journalist failure' bs from the site, as I did run across some NY Times articles as well in my googling.* Almost no one knows that a new party, One New London, whose express purpose was to prevent the New London Development Corporation from carrying out its Supreme Court-sanctioned actions, came out of nowhere and won two seats on the seven-seat City Council, losing out on a third seat by 19 votes.
* Almost no one knows that City Council, with the One New London Party members strongly dissenting, voted in May 2006, formalized in June, to evict the remaining holdouts, while demanding "past-due real estate taxes, claims for use and occupancy and claims to collect rent from third parties" to the tune of (I'm not kidding) $946,000 and change.
* Almost no one knows that infuriated city residents mounted what from all appearances was a successful petition drive to put the question of the city property takeover of the Kelo and Cristofaro properties on the ballot in just three weeks. Absent the petition and looming referendum overhang, it seems likely that City Council would have brought on the bulldozers. Instead, it began negotiations with Connecticut Governor Jodi Rell. Rell ultimately brokered a deal that, while constitutionally unacceptable, was probably the best anyone could have hoped for in the situation.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
New London may build a “memorial park” honoring victims of eminent domain on the former site of the Kelo house
New London, Connecticut Mayor Daryl Finizio recently signed an agreement authorizing the construction of a “memorial park” on the former site of Susette Kelo’s “little pink house,” one of the fifteen residential properties condemned by the city as part of a failed development project that led to the Supreme Court’s controversial decision upholding the takings in Kelo v. City of New London (2005):
...
Although the land was originally condemned for the purposes of promoting “economic development,” the poorly designed original development plan and a number of later proposals fell through; the condemned property lies empty to this day, used only by feral cats. The case did, however, generate a massive political backlash and resulted in the enactment of eminent domain reform laws in numerous states and the rekindling of a national debate over property rights and takings.
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
Don't underestimate the political clout of feral cats.
Jaymann
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Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
And don't underestimate the power of money to corrupt. Colorado's original tea partier, Mike Dunafon (organized the Glendale Tea Party in 1998, held rallies for Magpul after gun controls measures, libertarian darling, etc) apparently now loves himself some eminent domain. Glendale itself is a crazy, crazy place. It's a tiny town of less than 1 square mile that's embedded in Denver most famous for it's nude bar, Shotgun Willies (saving Willies started Dunafon's political career).
Now Glendale wants to return to its glory days as an entertainment hub for Denver and is proposing a $175 million development on 42 acres currently occupied by a mish mash of small businesses. Dunavon and city council want to use eminent domain to get rid of those pesky hanger-ons that refuse to sell out so the development can proceed. A local 25-year old oriental rug store is leading the charge to resist being bought out and things are getting pretty hot. Last night they marched with a bunch of protestors to the city council meeting to protest but the city council still approved the use of eminent domain so the entertainment complex developer can proceed.
Now Glendale wants to return to its glory days as an entertainment hub for Denver and is proposing a $175 million development on 42 acres currently occupied by a mish mash of small businesses. Dunavon and city council want to use eminent domain to get rid of those pesky hanger-ons that refuse to sell out so the development can proceed. A local 25-year old oriental rug store is leading the charge to resist being bought out and things are getting pretty hot. Last night they marched with a bunch of protestors to the city council meeting to protest but the city council still approved the use of eminent domain so the entertainment complex developer can proceed.
After more than three hours of testimony, the city council voted unanimously to pass a resolution giving the city's urban renewal authority the power to use eminent domain at a 42-acre site slated for a $175 million dining and entertainment complex on the banks of Cherry Creek, but not before requiring the city to negotiate and engage in mediation with private property owners.
"We are not here to take anyone's property," Dunafon said.
The mayor said eminent domain is used only after all negotiations between the city and private property owners on a property sale have broken down. He said the city still wants to work with the several landowners on the Glendale 180 site in coming up with a redevelopment plan.
"We fully believe we can work this out," Dunafon said.
But those who attended the meeting Tuesday were adamant that Glendale was being unfair to private property owners along East Virginia Avenue, who could be hit with a forced sale of their property should condemnation go forward.
According to a last-minute amendment that was negotiated in a flurry of meetings across the room, Glendale's urban renewal authority will be required to negotiate with the private property owner and engage in mediation if an agreement can't be reached before condemnation could proceed.
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Update to SCOTUS legalizing of Property Theft
Do you really think our mogul-in-chief is going to sign something that negatively impacts real estate developers?
It's almost as if people are the problem.