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The Presidential Pardon thread

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Isgrimnur
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

CNN
President Donald Trump's associates are making appeals to him in the hopes of obtaining pardons before he leaves office, a source familiar with the matter told CNN on Tuesday.

The source said the list of associates broaching the subject of preemptive pardons that would seek to shield those individuals from prosecution includes Rudy Giuliani, who has been leading the President's long-shot legal battles to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in his role as Trump's personal attorney.

Since the election, Trump has been discussing with advisers preemptively pardoning several people close to him, including his children, son-in-law and Giuliani, a separate source familiar confirmed to CNN. The potential pardon list includes others who are close to the President and could be legally vulnerable but have not been charged.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by RunningMn9 »

That’s how you know you’ve done a good job, you have to give out pardons like candy so your entire family isn’t thrown in jail for all of their crimes.
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Jaymann
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Jaymann »

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:45 pm That’s how you know you’ve done a good job, you have to give out pardons like candy so your entire family isn’t thrown in jail for all of their crimes.
Nah, the Army of Derp will swear it's his only defense against deep state "trumped" up charges.
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Defiant
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Defiant »

Trump pardons former lawmaker who spent campaign funds on Steam games

Spending campaign funds on Steam games is totally a forgivable offence, though. :wink:
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

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malchior
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by malchior »

Washington Post
Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Charles Kushner, Stephanie Mohr. You’ve probably heard about President Trump’s odious pre-Christmas pardons for the first three — and nothing about Mohr, a former Prince George’s County police officer. But Mohr’s pardon — for violating a homeless man’s civil rights by unleashing her K-9 on him — is equally, if not more undeserving. Of all the acts to pardon in a year that witnessed the killing of George Floyd, it is the most insensitive and inflaming.

I know; I was part of the team at the Justice Department’s civil rights division that helped prosecute Mohr in 2001.

In the middle of the night on Sept. 21, 1995, a local Prince George’s County police burglary stakeout unit found two homeless men on the empty roof of a business, eating food they had found in the trash in Takoma Park, Md. Ordered down from the roof, Ricardo Mendez and his friend willingly climbed down. Lit by a police helicopter above and facing a brick wall, the two men were surrounded by police officers, some with guns drawn, and Mohr holding her German shepherd on a leash. Both men obeyed commands and stood facing the wall with their hands up.

It should have been over. It wasn’t.

A police sergeant later testified that he was approached by Mohr’s supervising officer who said, “Hey Sarge, we got a new dog. Mind if it gets a bite?” The sergeant gave consent, and Mohr set her dog to attack Mendez, an undocumented immigrant whose only crime was seeking a safe place to eat and sleep. Mohr testified that she was doing her job as trained, and the victim needed “only 10 stitches.”

Think about that: only 10 stitches. Mohr disregarded her training to give her dog a taste of flesh and blood.

This was no accident or split-second mistake. It was a willful and deliberate act of police brutality. It was also not Mohr’s first — and there was a pattern to the violence. Evidence at trial showed that Mohr had previously released her dog on a Black teenager sleeping in a hammock in his own backyard. She had threatened the relatives of a fugitive that she would let her dog attack their “black ass” if they did not tell her where he was. There were other incidents that the jury did not even learn about, including one in which Mohr put her dog into a trash dumpster to attack a man who had fled from police.
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Holman
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Holman »

Why pardon such an asshole?

We know why. Trump is a sociopath who values "strength" and always has. Ethics and laws are for weak people, and he thinks pardoning and encouraging cruel cops and vicious soldiers will win the support of all of the rest of them (whom he assumes are naturally cruel *because* they are strong).

It's the same reason he admires autocrats like Putin and Erdogan and Kim. He envies their freedom from restraint and wants it for himself.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Kurth »

Holman wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:46 pm Why pardon such an asshole?

We know why. Trump is a sociopath who values "strength" and always has. Ethics and laws are for weak people, and he thinks pardoning and encouraging cruel cops and vicious soldiers will win the support of all of the rest of them (whom he assumes are naturally cruel *because* they are strong).

It's the same reason he admires autocrats like Putin and Erdogan and Kim. He envies their freedom from restraint and wants it for himself.
Who knows what goes on in Trump’s brain, but I think it much more likely that he pardoned her for some self-serving reason than that he did it based on any ideology. He probably did it because there was something in it for him. Other than that, I don’t think he gives two shits.
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Jaymann
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Jaymann »

He probably heard that the Proud Boys are looking for a few good women.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:44 pm He probably heard that the Proud Boys are looking for a few good women.
Here is a possible explanation - he saw her on TV praising him or is connected and someone showed him a clip of her appealing to him.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Jaymann »

Motherfucker Steve Bannon.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 pm Motherfucker Steve Bannon.
I'm not shocked. This is actually potentially interesting one if it turns out that Bannon's links to the 6th pan out. It'll put the GOP in a tough spot.

More context. I just heard one prosecutor say that this could open him to criminal prosecution because he is pardoning someone who was involved in his own crimes. The text of the pardon is going to be important.

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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Octavious »

If that's the final list it could have been much much worse. No Rudy :)
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by YellowKing »

At this point I'm in "do what you gotta do and just get the hell out" mode.
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Unagi
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Unagi »

I heard on the news the other night that the President can issue 'private' or 'secret' pardons that are not made public, until some point in the future should the person be brought to court - the secret pardon would be brought forth.

I think it was Lawrence O'Donnell (who I don't particularly like) who was saying it.... "don't trust the list"...

Is that true? I assume he wouldn't have reported it if it's not... but that sounds NUTS. And I've not heard anyone else talking about that point at all.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

YellowKing wrote:At this point I'm in "do what you gotta do and just get the hell out" mode.
Exactly. I’ve been there for a while now. Wife occasionally sends me something crazy or stupid Trump did, and my recent responses have been: don’t care, just leave.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by malchior »

Unagi wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:13 am I heard on the news the other night that the President can issue 'private' or 'secret' pardons that are not made public, until some point in the future should the person be brought to court - the secret pardon would be brought forth.

I think it was Lawrence O'Donnell (who I don't particularly like) who was saying it.... "don't trust the list"...

Is that true? I assume he wouldn't have reported it if it's not... but that sounds NUTS. And I've not heard anyone else talking about that point at all.
The power is absolute. He can write it on a napkin or speak it. There was no specified process or mechanism for delivery. There *was* a Grant-era court case where Grant rescinded a pardon because it hadn't been delivered yet. So it has to be at the very least 'received'.

Here is a hypothetical problem with 'secret' pardons. This would have to solved/ruled on at the SCOTUS level. Let's say he does grants a 'secret' pardon and there is no record. Someone might claim a verbal or a handwritten pardon. Then let's say Trump says he indeed granted it how would we know if it was indeed granted contemporaneous with his term as President?
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Remus West »

Unagi wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:13 am I heard on the news the other night that the President can issue 'private' or 'secret' pardons that are not made public, until some point in the future should the person be brought to court - the secret pardon would be brought forth.

I think it was Lawrence O'Donnell (who I don't particularly like) who was saying it.... "don't trust the list"...

Is that true? I assume he wouldn't have reported it if it's not... but that sounds NUTS. And I've not heard anyone else talking about that point at all.
Presidential grants are a matter of public record, so immediately after Presidential action, the name of each person granted a pardon or commutation, along with the district they were convicted, year of sentencing, offense, and the date the President granted their request is publicly listed on the Office of the Pardon Attorney website. This information may also be posted on The White House website and included in press releases issued by the Department or The White House.
from https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequent ... e%20Pardon
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Some reading suggests that the secret pardon is a lot like the self pardon: Not expressly forbidden, but against the original intent, of questionable legality, and never tested in court.
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Holman
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:04 am
Jaymann wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 pm Motherfucker Steve Bannon.
I'm not shocked. This is actually potentially interesting one if it turns out that Bannon's links to the 6th pan out. It'll put the GOP in a tough spot.

More context. I just heard one prosecutor say that this could open him to criminal prosecution because he is pardoning someone who was involved in his own crimes. The text of the pardon is going to be important.
I believe I read that the Bannon pardon was specifically about the charge of defrauding investors in the "Fund the Wall" scheme.

And apparently Trump didn't pardon Bannon's co-defendants there. Since a pardoned person can't plead the 5th, Bannon can be made to testify against them.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by El Guapo »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:28 am Some reading suggests that the secret pardon is a lot like the self pardon: Not expressly forbidden, but against the original intent, of questionable legality, and never tested in court.
Yeah it's probably supposed to be public, but it's not expressly forbidden, and when you're dealing with Trump you have to think about all the stuff that's probably not allowed but which exists in at least an arguable gray area.

I don't know that a secret pardon is likely since I'm not sure it would really work all that well for Trump, but it's not out of the question.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by malchior »

:doh:

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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:21 pm :doh:

He was also Trump's real estate lawyer for a while.
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Re: The Presidential Pardon thread

Post by Max Peck »

Holman wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:15 am I believe I read that the Bannon pardon was specifically about the charge of defrauding investors in the "Fund the Wall" scheme.
If the pardon is actually that specific, it seems fair. Defrauding people that wanted to fund The Wall strikes me as a victimless crime. :coffee:
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