Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

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Isgrimnur
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by Isgrimnur »

New Ranger Stadium artwork. Groundbreaking is next week.

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Enough
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by Enough »

When Populous first started building parks in this style (Baltimore and Denver) they seemed really fresh and gorgeous. Now that the formula worked it seems every Populous project looks similar. Our new on campus stadium was built by them and has this exact same look. There was a great 99% Invisible podcast on this.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by The Meal »

Michigan taxpayers spent about 1/3rd of a billion dollars on the new LCA (used by the Pistons and Red Wings). Here's the 2nd half tip-off of the opening night for the Pistons.

Image

Turns out $40 parking and $16 beers do have some effect.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by LordMortis »

Radio Voices say that's not the whole story because there are so many places to drink and many of the corporate seats come with a get drunk for free card. I have no idea of that's true or not. No matter, I still don't approve subsidizing stadiums, no matter how good Illitches have been for city. Being good for the city has been undeniably excellent for their pocketbooks.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by noxiousdog »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:07 pm Radio Voices say that's not the whole story because there are so many places to drink and many of the corporate seats come with a get drunk for free card. I have no idea of that's true or not. No matter, I still don't approve subsidizing stadiums, no matter how good Illitches have been for city. Being good for the city has been undeniably excellent for their pocketbooks.
Probably unlikely. Suites come with free drinks, but not those seats. They probably do have a private bar for those lower prom seats along the court, but you couldn't fit that many people in the bar. This is based on using corporate seats at Houston's Toyota Center.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by GreenGoo »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:07 pm Radio Voices say that's not the whole story because there are so many places to drink and many of the corporate seats come with a get drunk for free card. I have no idea of that's true or not. No matter, I still don't approve subsidizing stadiums, no matter how good Illitches have been for city. Being good for the city has been undeniably excellent for their pocketbooks.
Whatever the reason (pistons suck?) it doesn't change the fact that nearly 1/3 of a billion dollars of public money was spent for 2 teams, 1 of which isn't popular enough to be able to fill a 1/4 of the seats.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by Jeff V »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:07 pm Radio Voices say that's not the whole story because there are so many places to drink and many of the corporate seats come with a get drunk for free card. I have no idea of that's true or not. No matter, I still don't approve subsidizing stadiums, no matter how good Illitches have been for city. Being good for the city has been undeniably excellent for their pocketbooks.
Free? Free for me, not for the corporate sponsor, who is charged for everything. My time in purchasing spoiled me...I can't sit with the scum anymore...I just won't. But it's been a long time and if I was the mooching short I could probably leverage some of my old vendors for skybox tickets, but I'm not that kind of person. I simply do not attend sporting events anymore.
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Moliere
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by Moliere »

Jeff V wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:08 pm Free? Free for me, not for the corporate sponsor, who is charged for everything. My time in purchasing spoiled me...I can't sit with the scum anymore...I just won't. But it's been a long time and if I was the mooching short I could probably leverage some of my old vendors for skybox tickets, but I'm not that kind of person. I simply do not attend sporting events anymore.
So, would you say that you hate corporate sponsors and/or sporting events?
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by pr0ner »

The Meal wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:58 pm
Turns out $40 parking and $16 beers do have some effect.
$40 parking and $16 beers? In Detroit? Good grief.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by msteelers »

I don't doubt that the Pistons are struggling to put butts in the seats, but if I wanted to make it look like attendance was worse than it really was I would take pictures of the crowd at the start of the game and at the start of the 3rd quarter. The seats always look empty at those times. I would rather see how many people are in the seats in the 2nd quarter and end of 3rd, early 4th quarters.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by noxiousdog »

msteelers wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:37 am I don't doubt that the Pistons are struggling to put butts in the seats, but if I wanted to make it look like attendance was worse than it really was I would take pictures of the crowd at the start of the game and at the start of the 3rd quarter. The seats always look empty at those times. I would rather see how many people are in the seats in the 2nd quarter and end of 3rd, early 4th quarters.
Paid attendance for the 3rd home game was only 13k.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by Jeff V »

Moliere wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:18 pm
Jeff V wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:08 pm Free? Free for me, not for the corporate sponsor, who is charged for everything. My time in purchasing spoiled me...I can't sit with the scum anymore...I just won't. But it's been a long time and if I was the mooching short I could probably leverage some of my old vendors for skybox tickets, but I'm not that kind of person. I simply do not attend sporting events anymore.
So, would you say that you hate corporate sponsors and/or sporting events?
I hate paying my own way for sporting events these days. It's very expensive now, and chances are I'm not going to see anything terribly impressive...not compared to what I've already seen. If a vendor pays, great! If a friend offers to give me a spare ticket, ok. If a friend wants to sell me a spare ticket...sorry, I have other plans (laundry isn't going to wash itself you know!) And while I understand those late season Bears tickets you're offering to give me are quite expensive, I'd really rather watch their shit show on TV rather then freeze my ass off at Soldier Field.
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Moliere
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by Moliere »

Jeff V wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:33 am I hate paying my own way for sporting events these days. It's very expensive now, and chances are I'm not going to see anything terribly impressive...not compared to what I've already seen. If a vendor pays, great! If a friend offers to give me a spare ticket, ok. If a friend wants to sell me a spare ticket...sorry, I have other plans (laundry isn't going to wash itself you know!) And while I understand those late season Bears tickets you're offering to give me are quite expensive, I'd really rather watch their shit show on TV rather then freeze my ass off at Soldier Field.
Mark Maron in his new Netflix special has a funny bit about getting free Rolling Stones concert tickets and his first response is, "will they have enough parking at the venue?" and it goes on from there about his reluctance to enjoy the free tickets.
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Re: Do taxpayers *always* have to pay for stadiums now?

Post by naednek »

msteelers wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:37 am I don't doubt that the Pistons are struggling to put butts in the seats, but if I wanted to make it look like attendance was worse than it really was I would take pictures of the crowd at the start of the game and at the start of the 3rd quarter. The seats always look empty at those times. I would rather see how many people are in the seats in the 2nd quarter and end of 3rd, early 4th quarters.
That's what they did for the 49ers stadium (Levi's Stadium) They took it early on in the 1st qtr where people were still arriving due to Bay Area traffic. Not to mention it's hotter than hell on the Visiting side of the stadium due to poor stadium design. The wall of glass windows for the suites reflect the sun onto the visiting side and it bakes ya in your seat. Many people are watching the game under the awnings where the tv's are until it cools down.

Now granted the niners have lost fans for various reasons, but it's not as bad as the media leads on. Mainly they show that empty looking shot to try and show a point about Kaepernick's effect on kneeling.
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